₦airaland Forum

gidgiddy:
Yes very unfortunate. So if the Urohbo nation accepts Nigeria, they should learn to put up and shut their mouths. That's the price of "one Nigeria"

*Stamped*

T

@fratermathy. Very good job! Kudos for this piece.

However 2 things I would like to tell you.

1) Nigerian minorities are more than 50 million. We form 38% of the country's population. That's around 75 million people (out of 200 million Nigerians). At least 25% of the south and 60% of the north comprises of minority groups

The majority of northern Nigeria's population are minorities, only that hausanization through the emirates and the use of islam as a tool has succeeded in silencing the distinct identities and voice of many northern Nigeria's minorities.

2) Write-ups like this would definitely help to increase the courage and active consciousness of we minority groups, but it may never change anything, unless we achieve full autonomy under regional governments.

The only way out for we the minorities under this Federal government is to try to unite amongst ourselves, support each other and have a common identity at the Federal level.
Middlebelt minorities -one identity.
South-south minorities- one identity.

fratermathy:
Religious discrimination or discrimination in general is different from cultural suppression. The problem the so-called minorities have is that their cultures are regarded as less important by the usage of the word - minority- to refer to them. It creates a situation where some cultures are deemed fortunate and others are deemed unfortunate by virtue by numerical strength.


If the nation can regard every group has equal and affirm that there are no majorities and minorities in the cultural and political sense of it, then we can start from there. Let it be affirmed that all Nigerian languages and groups can be taught and used for national discourse like the three so-called majority languages are being used.

You can imagine that many of the translated forms of articles, videos, materials, websites, etc, in Nigeria and for Nigerians are done ONLY in three languages when they can be done in all languages without qualms. That is just absurd and baseless.

Ethnic and religious discrimination, which your post referred to, is not a product of minority appellation. Even amongst the so-called majorities, there are many instances of discriminations. That is not the issue we are talking about here.

The above reasons you just gave are perfect sir. I also will stand with you on the suggestions you gave.

gidgiddy:
Yes very unfortunate. So if the Urohbo nation accepts Nigeria, they should learn to put up and shut their mouths. That's the price of "one Nigeria"

safarigirl:
is there really such a thing?

Is it not a personal thing to keep one's culture? Are there, let's say, Efik people doing away with their cultures to promote Igbo cultures? One would think that the distinguishing of the Niger Delta area into South South, would mean they don't have to be 'under' the Igbo culture.

Save for some parts of Rivers state, I would say the so-called 'minorities' aren't under any siege

fratermathy:
You are talking politics and that is not what we are talking here. This post is not geared towards political or religious marginalisation. What the post is saying is simple: the bifurcation of cultures into majorities and minorities is absurd, baseless and useless. It should be done away with for the sake of equity and the natural evolution of living cultures.

Mr ur thread is boring. U are telling safarigirl not to bring politics to it...yet the topic has the word politics in it.

Wat gidgiddy has told u is the simple reply. Every other thing u guys are doing here is an academic exercise. And its boring as fùck.

We have all seen the mistakes of One Nigeria...those mistakes will never be corrected anymore because the nation is far gone. There is a reason Ghana is the fastest developing nation in west africa...followed by ivorycoast b4 nigeria. These countries just have populations of less than 33 million people. And their demography is not as diverse as Nigeria. People will mostly reason along the same line...therefore development will be quicker to come. We have 250 tribes in nigeria, each with their own demands, strenghts and ideology and of course weaknesses...how can we agregate all these and chart one course together? Not possible! The best we can chart is 5 or 6 different courses. A nation going in 5 or 6 different directions at the same time will never progress. Which way is forward? In one arm we are in Non-aligned Movement organisation, in another arm we are in OIC. In one arm we are a secular country..in another arm many northern states are practicing sharia law. In one arm we are a federal nation....in another arm we are a unitary nation. Just a fùcking mess of a country.

What we need is to balkanise the country into similar, manageable nations.
Even in the europe that gave us our artificial countries, most of them are living in homogenous nations. The few european nations where there are more than one ethnic groups like spain, italy and uk; the ethnic minorities have devolved powers...ditto catalonia, sicily, scotland-ireland-wales.

We need Biafra simple. And the Biafran leaders of thought have proposed a uk-like system of govt for ethnicities within se, ss and benue who align with the movement like the map below shows

Efewestern:
They should learn from Southern minorities and how we fought so hard to have our separate identity, left for these major Ethnic groups, they just want to lump every small ethnic group into their fold, Read about the plight of Southern minorities In the 1960's regional government.

Most northern minorities are fast loosing their identities and the federal government is doing nothing about this.

How many times have the northern minorities carried out a campaign to distinguish themselves from hausa/fulani ?, Down south we do that every single day.

I beg to disagree with you my friend.

Southern minorities were just very lucky to be more liberated than we northern minorities. It's not as if you guys fought more for it. Let me give you the points.

1) Our colonial masters, the British favoured the Hausa-fulanis the most in our country, we all know that! And the British clearly used we northern minorities as pawns to make the Hausa-fulanis stronger.
Many of us rejected, but some could not.

Do you know how much the British promoted Hausanization and islam in the old northern region? The British went as far as trying to stop the missionaries from evangelizing northern minorities, so that islam will spread and we would all become muslims, so that we can all be more like Hausas, but it failed to an extent because of the stubborness of the missionaries. It still succeeded somehow though otherwise these missionaries would have even converted many of the Hausas themselves to christianity.
It is a very long story to be explained here. If you wanna know more, I can expand.

How about the emirates? They also tried to force the emirates all over the entire north, some tribes fought against it, others accepted and later fought, while others could not reject and still remain victims till today.

Many other points.

Now I don't see how the British connived with Yorubas and Igbos to try to Yorubanize or Igbonize you southern minorities. If there are please show me.

2) The Hausas & Igbos controlled the first republic while the yorubas were in opposition. This caused the Hausas & Igbos to fully support the demand of you Bendel minorities to break out from the old western region, while they themselves fully held on to their own minorities.

3) The Biafra war brought about the full liberation of Eastern minorities. Something which they would never had achieved if not for that war.

Northern minorities have shown times without number how they wish to be distinct from the north, right from the Willinks commission of 1956 to the Tiv riots of 1967. Even during the colonial period till the first and 2nd republics with the United middlebelt congress political party which dominated the politics in middlebelt areas of the northern region, to the Jos natives movement in the 1980s. How many more can I mention.

The only reason why it seems like the voice of the middlebelt is not loud enough is because of religion. The oppressors of the region have used the most powerful tool (religion) to divide the allegiance of the populace of the region. Just the same way they seem to be using that same tool to want to divide the south-west.

Nowenuse:
I beg to disagree with you my friend.

Southern minorities were just very lucky to be more liberated than we northern minorities. It's not as if you guys fought more for it. Let me give you the points.

1) Our colonial masters, the British favoured the Hausa-fulanis the most in our country, we all know that! And the British clearly used we northern minorities as pawns to make the Hausa-fulanis stronger.
Many of us rejected, but some could not.

Do you know how much the British promoted Hausanization and islam in the old northern region? The British went as far as trying to stop the missionaries from evangelizing northern minorities, so that islam will spread and we would all become muslims, so that we can all be more like Hausas, but it failed to an extent because of the stubborness of the missionaries. It still succeeded somehow though otherwise these missionaries would have even converted many of the Hausas themselves to christianity.
It is a very long story to be explained here. If you wanna know more, I can expand.

How about the emirates? They also tried to force the emirates all over the entire north, some tribes fought against it, others accepted and later fought, while others could not reject and still remain victims till today.

Many other points.

Now I don't see how the British connived with Yorubas and Igbos to try to Yorubanize or Igbonize you southern minorities. If there are please show me.

2) The Hausas & Igbos controlled the first republic while the yorubas were in opposition. This caused the Hausas & Igbos to fully support the demand of you Bendel minorities to break out from the old western region, while they themselves fully held on to their own minorities.

3) The Biafra war brought about the full liberation of Eastern minorities. Something which they would never had achieved if not for that war.

Northern minorities have shown times without number how they wish to be distinct from the north, right from the Willinks commission of 1956 to the Tiv riots of 1967. Even during the colonial period till the first and 2nd republics with the United middlebelt congress political party which dominated the politics in middlebelt areas of the northern region, to the Jos natives movement in the 1980s. How many more can I mention.

The only reason why it seems like the voice of the middlebelt is not loud enough is because of religion. The oppressors of the region have used the most powerful tool (religion) to divide the allegiance of the populace of the region. Just the same way they seem to be using that same tool to want to divide the south-west.

My brother from another mother, Long time.. I still stand by my word, You guys are doing little or nothing to liberate yourself from the Hausa/fulani grip.

Like you pointed out, Mid-western region was created to weaken the then Western Region, but before then the Urhobos were already championing the cause for a separate identity.

Now back to this day, we have all seen how some major ethnic group are trying to lump The minorities into their fold using some silly excuses or the other even when we share nothing with them, The Southern minorities responded with strong criticism, each group distinguishing themselves and making known their points, this is something your Nothern minorities lack.

You are comfortable with the status quo, I know little about you culture because you hardly talk about it, most time I do think Your culture is exactly the same with that of Fulani, but check out the southern minorities ,every day we write articles about our people that it will be very difficult to lump us with anyone, We are always promoting our identity anywhere we are, You guys lack this ability.

Another issues is that you guys don't want to step on toes, I don't know but I think by now Middle belt should be having no connection with core north, You should know those who wants your progress, the core north are just parasites, Nobody benefits anything from them, save for terrorism, you can start your campaign by Pulling out from any alliance you have with the core north, start an online campaign, you can use Nairaland, tell people who you truly are, within few years I believe you guys will be left alone.

Hmmmm. The so called majority cultures are not monolithic. Nigeria politicians have always be reminding me of that. Let Nigeria divide, that's when you will see politician accuse each other of not being from a certain part. The division will never end till it's divide along village line. Even at that, they will still find a way to divide the village all because of power.

No major tribe is monolithic. It's all lies.

Nowenuse:
I beg to disagree with you my friend.

Southern minorities were just very lucky to be more liberated than we northern minorities. It's not as if you guys fought more for it. Let me give you the points.

1) Our colonial masters, the British favoured the Hausa-fulanis the most in our country, we all know that! And the British clearly used we northern minorities as pawns to make the Hausa-fulanis stronger.
Many of us rejected, but some could not.

Do you know how much the British promoted Hausanization and islam in the old northern region? The British went as far as trying to stop the missionaries from evangelizing northern minorities, so that islam will spread and we would all become muslims, so that we can all be more like Hausas, but it failed to an extent because of the stubborness of the missionaries. It still succeeded somehow though otherwise these missionaries would have even converted many of the Hausas themselves to christianity.
It is a very long story to be explained here. If you wanna know more, I can expand.

How about the emirates? They also tried to force the emirates all over the entire north, some tribes fought against it, others accepted and later fought, while others could not reject and still remain victims till today.

Many other points.

Now I don't see how the British connived with Yorubas and Igbos to try to Yorubanize or Igbonize you southern minorities. If there are please show me.

2) The Hausas & Igbos controlled the first republic while the yorubas were in opposition. This caused the Hausas & Igbos to fully support the demand of you Bendel minorities to break out from the old western region, while they themselves fully held on to their own minorities.

3) The Biafra war brought about the full liberation of Eastern minorities. Something which they would never had achieved if not for that war.

Northern minorities have shown times without number how they wish to be distinct from the north, right from the Willinks commission of 1956 to the Tiv riots of 1967. Even during the colonial period till the first and 2nd republics with the United middlebelt congress political party which dominated the politics in middlebelt areas of the northern region, to the Jos natives movement in the 1980s. How many more can I mention.

The only reason why it seems like the voice of the middlebelt is not loud enough is because of religion. The oppressors of the region have used the most powerful tool (religion) to divide the allegiance of the populace of the region. Just the same way they seem to be using that same tool to want to divide the south-west.

Apt analysis. Dunno much about what obtained in the western region but in the Eastern region, although the Igbos used their numbers to dominate political affairs, the use of provincial governance system gave room to various ethnic nationality for identity. They weren't exactly being subsumed to anybody like was obtained in the North.

Sorry all these trash will end as far as Nigeria ceases to exist
Leave theory for the maxist them.....
focus on splitting the failed state

I've always said this: ibo are hypocrites cos they enjoy being called "majority" at the expense of others, but will cry marginalization.

They cry marginalization when it does not favour them, but keep shut when it does.

I ddnt want to make any comment in the first place but I have to...what people fail to understand is that the so called cultural minorities are to be blamed for their journey to extinction. I have stayed in several parts of Nigeria and happened to mingle with them from the southern and northern Nigeria, what I noticed about them is that they do intentionally attach themselves to the majority tribes because of so many reasons. For example, southern kaduna have so many tribes but they chose to adopt hausa as a means of communication leaving behind their own language. However to some extent I won’t blame them because some are few hundreds and thousands in number, if they should only speak the language they won’t be able to communicate with their neighboring tribes that are also minorities. Infact they’ll just be like deaf and dumb especially when they go to the city, and don’t forget the fact that they are not educated so don’t expect them to use english to communicate and they have to communicate with other people even if it’s for business purpose. Even among the majority, there’s one that their inferiority complex is high enough that alot of them are dumping their very own culture for English culture! So minorities should thank God theirs is not as a result of inferiority complex but really need to step up their game, love and show their culture to the world because indeed every culture is beautiful and interesting.

Efewestern:
My brother from another mother, Long time.. I still stand by my word, You guys are doing little or nothing to liberate yourself from the Hausa/fulani grip.

Like you pointed out, Mid-western region was created to weaken the then Western Region, but before then the Urhobos were already championing the cause for a separate identity.

Now back to this day, we have all seen how some major ethnic group are trying to lump The minorities into their fold using some silly excuses or the other even when we share nothing with them, The Southern minorities responded with strong criticism, each group distinguishing themselves and making known their points, this is something your Nothern minorities lack.

You are comfortable with the status quo, I know little about you culture because you hardly talk about it, most time I do think Your culture is exactly the same with that of Fulani, but check out the southern minorities ,every day we write articles about our people that it will be very difficult to lump us with anyone, We are always promoting our identity anywhere we are, You guys lack this ability.

Another issues is that you guys don't want to step on toes, I don't know but I think by now Middle belt should be having no connection with core north, You should know those who wants your progress, the core north are just parasites, Nobody benefits anything from them, save for terrorism, you can start your campaign by Pulling out from any alliance you have with the core north, start an online campaign, you can use Nairaland, tell people who you truly are, within few years I believe you guys will be left alone.

Yeah, you said the truth Bro. I've not been online so often.

However, like I told you, the strength and numbers of our people had already been weakened since the colonial days due to hausanization and islamization.
Your people never faced this.

For instance, only mostly Plateau and Benue people are very strong vocalists of the middlebelt struggle and independence of the middlebelt, Why? Cos we are overwhelmingly christians and are not affected by Islamic prejudice.
Southern Kaduna and Taraba tend to be also vocal to an extent, but the north-central definition excluded them, so many of them think that they are not even part of the middlebelt identity.

Another thing is that your own people are very important in the Nigerian scheme, being the owners of Crude oil (the wealth of the nation). So people listen to you guys more when you talk.
Your own people are also more educated and exposed than my own people who were dragged backward by the retrogressive core-north for decades. (Thank God we have left them behind and are making better progress in reducing illiteracy and poverty levels).

Another thing is that our tribes were largely balkanized by the colonialists. During colonialism, a tribe like yours (the Urhobos) in Plateau for instance were divided into like 5 distinct ethnic groups by the British, so that they can easily be controlled and manipulated.
This has heavily reduced the ethnic esteem and pride of our people. Your tribes are larger than ours and more influential. Save for Tivs and Idomas, the other larger tribes in the middlebelt like Igalas, Ebiras and Nupes have their allegiance heavily divided by islamic prejudice to bond with the core-north.

However I agree with you that we need to do more on our own to dissociate ourselves from the core-north. We can do far better than we are doing now.
That is why I to an extent I now believe that every part of the middlebelt should fight to completely dissociate themselves from the north on our own cos some states in the middlebelt have a lot of pro-arewa people.

Niger state people for instance are middlebelters but they are heavily pro-Arewa minded cos they are mostly muslims and under emirates. There is no sense for Plateau people for instance to share any identity or struggle with Niger state people, they will only drag us down.

And the bane of the struggle now lies with the youths cos our elders were brainwashed from childhood to believe that they are one with Arewa and inseparable.

Efewestern:
You are comfortable with the status quo, I know little about you culture because you hardly talk about it, most time I do think Your culture is exactly the same with that of Fulani, but check out the southern minorities ,every day we write articles about our people that it will be very difficult to lump us with anyone, We are always promoting our identity anywhere we are, You guys lack this ability.

I feel like I have to correct your assumption in this paragraph of yours.

First of all, let me ask you, do you think the average Hausa, Fulani, Kanuri, Shuwa arab and other northerners know the difference between an Igbo man, an Ishan man an Ibibio man and an Urhobo man? Hell they do not!

They assume that all of you are INYAMIRI (Igbos). Go to any part of the core-north and even parts of the middlebelt, that is the way you will be addressed.

Even Idomas and other Benue & Kogi christians are addressed as Igbos in the core-north.

You do not know the difference btw middlebelt and core-northern cultures not because we do not talk about our cultures but because the differences may not be easy for you to understand. Just like a typical Hausa man from Katsina cannot easily understand the differences between Igbos and South-south people no matter how much you explain.

Take a trip to Zamfara or Sokoto and you may understand my point better.
In fact, it is so bad that in some parts of the core-north they do not even know yorubas. Every southerner and anyone they see who cannot speak hausa is addressed as an IGBO.

Chicksslayer:
I ddnt want to make any comment in the first place but I have to...what people fail to understand is that the so called cultural minorities are to be blamed for their journey to extinction. I have stayed in several parts of Nigeria and happened to mingle with them from the southern and northern Nigeria, what I noticed about them is that they do intentionally attach themselves to the majority tribes because of so many reasons. For example, southern kaduna have so many tribes but they chose to adopt hausa as a means of communication leaving behind their own language. However to some extent I won’t blame them because some are few hundreds and thousands in number, if they should only speak the language they won’t be able to communicate with their neighboring tribes that are also minorities. Infact they’ll just be like deaf and dumb especially when they go to the city, and don’t forget the fact that they are not educated so don’t expect them to use english to communicate and they have to communicate with other people even if it’s for business purpose. Even among the majority, there’s one that their inferiority complex is high enough that alot of them are dumping their very own culture for English culture! So minorities should thank God theirs is not as a result of inferiority complex but really need to step up their game, love and show their culture to the world because indeed every culture is beautiful and interesting.

You made a very good point.

Good that you acknowledged how small the Southern Kaduna tribes were and their need for a lingua franca among themselves.

However I also wanted you to know that the Hausa language was forced on these people during colonialism. During the old northern protectorate and northern region, Hausa language was widely promoted as the lingua franca of the entire region through the help of the British colonialists. So, don't just apportion blames on people without knowing the history of it.

Before Hausa language came, these tribes survived with their neighbouring tribes by speaking each others' languages and they were fine with it.

Had it been that these tribes were granted their own autonomy during colonialism, completely independent of Hausas, they would have evolved their own lingua franca from among their own languages. Afterall, many of these languages share a lot of similarities.

bibe:
Apt analysis. Dunno much about what obtained in the western region but in the Eastern region, although the Igbos used their numbers to dominate political affairs, the use of provincial governance system gave room to various ethnic nationality for identity. They weren't exactly being subsumed to anybody like was obtained in the North.

This is what you think cos you are obviously not from one of the 'minority groups'.

I have heard people from the Eastern minority groups complain how they suffered in the Eastern region and how they would rather remain federal slaves of Nigeria than going into any form of govt anymore with the Igbos.
There was so much celebration and happiness among the eastern minorities when Gowon gave them their own states, why do you think so?

Take Ikwerres and Okrikas for instance, they never had a control over PH city during the old eastern region. Igbos from the hinterland completely dominated the city and the natives of the city were like 2nd class citizens in their own lands (I have heard many Ikwerres say this).

Nowenuse:
This is what you think cos you are obviously not from one of the 'minority groups'.

I have heard people from the Eastern minority groups complain how they suffered in the Eastern region and how they would rather remain federal slaves of Nigeria than going into any form of govt anymore with the Igbos.
There was so much celebration and happiness among the eastern minorities when Gowon gave them their own states, why do you think so?

Take Ikwerres and Okrikas for instance, they never had a control over PH city during the old eastern region. Igbos from the hinterland completely dominated the city and the natives of the city were like 2nd class citizens in their own lands (I have heard many Ikwerres say this).

To be honest with you, I don't buy this tag of majority and minority group (I mean personally I don't believe in it). The ikwerre issue is complex and this platform is not appropriate to discuss it. However the reality is that many ikwerres address themselves as Igbo while some don't (even when the name ikwerre is Igbo and they do bear Igbo names even in meaning). Don't have much info about the okrika.

The point I raised isn't about marginalisation but subsuming of ethnicities which I pointed to the provincial system in place in the Eastern region to help ensure representation. It may not have been perfect but it was a system which was subject to evolution. I don't want to digress from that.

bibe:
To be honest with you, I don't buy this tag of majority and minority group (I mean personally I don't believe in it). The ikwerre issue is complex and this platform is not appropriate to discuss it. However the reality is that many ikwerres address themselves as Igbo while some don't (even when the name ikwerre is Igbo and they do bear Igbo names even in meaning). Don't have much info about the okrika.

The point I raised isn't about marginalisation but subsuming of ethnicities which I pointed to the provincial system in place in the Eastern region to help ensure representation. It may not have been perfect but it was a system which was subject to evolution. I don't want to digress from that.

I understand you.

But don't you think marginalization of minorities can also lead to subsuming their identities?

In the old northern region, Hausas pumped all the money to the development of Kaduna and Kano. This made many middlebelters abandon their villages to move to Kaduna and Kano in droves and those middlebelters who could not speak Hausa were mandated to learn Hausa.

Go to Okene or Bida today. Ebiras & Nupes generally do not speak Hausa as a 2nd language but it is very common to find 1 among 3 people in their homelands who speak Hausa. How come? Cos they must have lived in Kaduna, Kano or Jos cities.

The number of middlebelt muslims in Kano, Kaduna and Zaria that have been hausanized are too many, why? Cos they migrated there a long time ago to find better opportunities which never existed in their homelands.

If the regional govts had continued, the majority of Eastern minorities, especially those living in Enugu (the capital) and PH would be speaking Igbo by now. After a long time, some after some generations would be Igbonized.
Everyone would want to speak Igbo cos more opportunities would definitely come with it.

I hope you get my point.

Caseless:
I've always said this: ibo are hypocrites cos they enjoy being called "majority" at the expense of others, but will cry marginalization.

They cry marginalization when it does not favour them, but keep shut when it does.

and an idiot will bring Igbo into wat doesnt concern them....typical

Nowenuse:
I feel like I have to correct your assumption in this paragraph of yours.

First of all, let me ask you, do you think the average Hausa, Fulani, Kanuri, Shuwa arab and other northerners know the difference between an Igbo man, an Ishan man an Ibibio man and an Urhobo man? Hell they do not!

They assume that all of you are INYAMIRI (Igbos). Go to any part of the core-north and even parts of the middlebelt, that is the way you will be addressed.

Even Idomas and other Benue & Kogi christians are addressed as Igbos in the core-north.

You do not know the difference btw middlebelt and core-northern cultures not because we do not talk about our cultures but because the differences may not be easy for you to understand. Just like a typical Hausa man from Katsina cannot easily understand the differences between Igbos and South-south people no matter how much you explain.

Take a trip to Zamfara or Sokoto and you may understand my point better.
In fact, it is so bad that in some parts of the core-north they do not even know yorubas. Every southerner and anyone they see who cannot speak hausa is addressed as an IGBO.

This post made me laugh. And this is coming from a northerner o. When we tell our western neighbours that our fates are intertwined once we go up north, they will be doubting it. An hausaman respects an Igboman as the real opposition to Hausa/fulani hegemony. Therefore, once u cant clearly identify urself to an hausaman during crisis, u are an Igboman. Those corps members killed in 2011 election are mostly yorubas....but i can swear that their killers thought they were Igbos. To hausa illiterates, there are only two tribes in the south of nigeria - yoruba muslims and Inyamari (Igbos)

Nowenuse:
I understand you.

But don't you think marginalization of minorities can also lead to subsuming their identities?

In the old northern region, Hausas pumped all the money to the development of Kaduna and Kano. This made many middlebelters abandon their villages to move to Kaduna and Kano in droves and those middlebelters who could not speak Hausa were mandated to learn Hausa.

Go to Okene or Bida today. Ebiras & Nupes generally do not speak Hausa as a 2nd language but it is very common to find 1 among 3 people in their homelands who speak Hausa. How come? Cos they must have lived in Kaduna, Kano or Jos cities.

The number of middlebelt muslims in Kano, Kaduna and Zaria that have been hausanized are too many, why? Cos they migrated there a long time ago to find better opportunities which never existed in their homelands.

If the regional govts had continued, the majority of Eastern minorities, especially those living in Enugu (the capital) and PH would be speaking Igbo by now. After a long time, some after some generations would be Igbonized.
Everyone would want to speak Igbo cos more opportunities would definitely come with it.

I hope you get my point.

u know something bro....tho am Igbo and may speak from an angle of the 'majority tribes' the truth is the 3 region system left by the british....infact the entire system left by the british is (still is) the best system for Nigeria to develope.

U have to understand that these guys have done it b4. They were the europeans who moved to the americas and turned canada, u.s, mexico, brazil and argentina into the wonderful nations they are today. In u.s for instance, there were local tribes...but they were forced to become englishmen. Even tho europe was multilingual, the u.s adopted only english as everybody's mothertongue. That means french and german ppl moving to u.s must learn english.

Take india too as example...most speak hindi today. However most did not speak hindi 500 years ago...but today there is more cohesion in india, in america etc as a result of the one language/culture policy.

Many Nigerians who would leave the shore of nigeria to say america will 4get everything about their nigerian language and culture in just 50 years and bcom full americans. Is adopting the american language and culture better for say a tiv man than adopting the hausa language and culture while in nigeria?

We would have had just 3 nations within nigeria if the british system was not disrupted. Today we have maybe 10 nations...all thinking in different directions.

Believe me..had the coup of 66 not occured and had gowon not created those first 12 states, this is how i belive nigeria would have been;

1. PH in eastern region will be as developed as lagos.
2. Lagos would not be over crowded and it would still be fct.
3. Ibadan will be much more developed than it is today
4. Benin city would be much more developed and populated than it is today
5. Kaduna will look the way abuja looks now
6. Kano will be much more developed than it is today
7. There would be no abuja.
8. Most ppl in north would speak hausa, most in east will speak igbo, and most in midwest will speak either benin or igbo
9. Minority ppl would be bilingual.
10. Boko haram, heardesmen crisis and nd militancy would not arise

Nowenuse:
I feel like I have to correct your assumption in this paragraph of yours.

First of all, let me ask you, do you think the average Hausa, Fulani, Kanuri, Shuwa arab and other northerners know the difference between an Igbo man, an Ishan man an Ibibio man and an Urhobo man? Hell they do not!

They assume that all of you are INYAMIRI (Igbos). Go to any part of the core-north and even parts of the middlebelt, that is the way you will be addressed.

Even Idomas and other Benue & Kogi christians are addressed as Igbos in the core-north.

You do not know the difference btw middlebelt and core-northern cultures not because we do not talk about our cultures but because the differences may not be easy for you to understand. Just like a typical Hausa man from Katsina cannot easily understand the differences between Igbos and South-south people no matter how much you explain.

Take a trip to Zamfara or Sokoto and you may understand my point better.
In fact, it is so bad that in some parts of the core-north they do not even know yorubas. Every southerner and anyone they see who cannot speak hausa is addressed as an IGBO.

Dont get carried away in the points you are making.

It is absolute bunkum to say Northerners are unable to differentiate Yoruba from the rest of Southerners.

The point you made about Igbo, Urhobo, Isoko, Ijaw being banded together is accurate. Even here in West we have difficulty differentiating and everyone East of Yorubaland is banded together as Isobo or Igbo. Even the Itshekiris who speak our language are sometimes mistaken as Isobo.

Why?

The answer is in culture. Until very recently Yorubas are the only ones in South that wear buba, sokoto and agbada and our hat is different from anyone else's. All non agbada wearing people in South are grouped as Isobo or Igbo. For women,Yorubas women are the only ones that do not wear two piece wrapper in South and they drape ipele on shoulder and gele on head. No other women group in South tied gele or draped ipele on shoulder or one wrapper on the waist. This is why Itshekiri is often mistaken as Isobo.

If Northerners find it hard to differentiate Yoruba it would only be a new thing and brought about byvthe Yoruba desire to dress in foreign attires not recognised for the Yoruba culture. All over Africa, the Yoruba dress, for men and women, is unique and identifiable.

BabaRamota1980:
Dont get carried away in the points you are making.

It is absolute bunkum to say Northerners are unable to differentiate Yoruba from the rest of Southerners.

The point you made about Igbo, Urhobo, Isoko, Ijaw being banded together is accurate. Even here in West we have difficulty differentiating and everyone East of Yorubaland is banded together as Isobo or Igbo. Even the Itshekiris who speak our language are sometimes mistaken as Isobo.

Why?

The answer is in culture. Until very recently Yorubas are the only ones in South that wear buba, sokoto and agbada and our hat is different from anyone else's. All non agbada wearing people in South are grouped as Isobo or Igbo. For women,Yorubas women are the only ones that do not wear two piece wrapper in South and they drape ipele on shoulder and gele on head. No other women group in South tied gele or draped ipele on shoulder or one wrapper on the waist. This is why Itshekiri is often mistaken as Isobo.

If Northerners find it hard to differentiate Yoruba it would only be a new thing and brought about byvthe Yoruba desire to dress in foreign attires not recognised for the Yoruba culture. All over Africa, the Yoruba dress, for men and women, is unique and identifiable.

see this one...so a yoruba 20 year old boy who traveled to nysc camp in sokoto will wear agbada?

Nowenuse:
I understand you.

But don't you think marginalization of minorities can also lead to subsuming their identities?

In the old northern region, Hausas pumped all the money to the development of Kaduna and Kano. This made many middlebelters abandon their villages to move to Kaduna and Kano in droves and those middlebelters who could not speak Hausa were mandated to learn Hausa.

Go to Okene or Bida today. Ebiras & Nupes generally do not speak Hausa as a 2nd language but it is very common to find 1 among 3 people in their homelands who speak Hausa. How come? Cos they must have lived in Kaduna, Kano or Jos cities.

The number of middlebelt muslims in Kano, Kaduna and Zaria that have been hausanized are too many, why? Cos they migrated there a long time ago to find better opportunities which never existed in their homelands.

If the regional govts had continued, the majority of Eastern minorities, especially those living in Enugu (the capital) and PH would be speaking Igbo by now. After a long time, some after some generations would be Igbonized.
Everyone would want to speak Igbo cos more opportunities would definitely come with it.

I hope you get my point.

You made some valid points but that wasn't exactly so. Historically, the Igbo and most other ethnicities in the Eastern region shared a lot in common. Eg killing of twins, the ekpe cult (Aro Confederacy+cross riverians) etc. There's always been mutual respect generally.

Enugu was chosen as capital just same way Abuja was chosen as capital and Lagos before it. Enugu was Igbo through and through so no issues of minorities being subsumed there. English was the ligua franca as obtains in Abuja and Lagos (while it was the capital). Knowledge of the language of the natives doesn't mean being subsumed but helps with communicating with the locals.

Like I said before the provincial system was adopted to ensure representation and even spread development most of which are still visible in the various states of today. Enugu and Port Harcourt experienced more rapid development due to coal (which held same value as oil of today) the rail from enugu to ph as well as the ph port and city came to be as a result of coal.

Revenue was mostly shared according to what you contributed. Abia, Anambra and present day Akwa ibom got more of the largesse on account of Palm oil revenue (you can research the economy of southern Nigeria before independence) so sometimes I don't really understand the cries about marginalisation. It's akin to crying that present day Rivers, Akwa ibom and bayelsa are marginalising the South East states on account of their crude oil revenue (13% derivation).

If you do a proper research on the economy of the Eastern region you'll understand that the issue of marginalisation is unfounded however you can already see from the analysis above that the economy was largely tilted to the igbos as at then and their numbers ultimately meant they'll dominate politically (numbers and money).

In conclusion, the system that obtained in the Eastern region was radically different to that of the northern region where there was clearly an agenda thus the issue of igbonisation is not plausible.

selemempe:
see this one...so a yoruba 20 year old boy who traveled to nysc camp in sokoto will wear agbada?

He was not talking about NYSC in the post i referenced and Im not talking about NYSC either when I say East of Yoruba everyone is looked at Isobo or Igbo.

If you want specifics of NYSC thats general for everyone whether North or South.

BabaRamota1980:
He was not talking about NYSC in the post i referenced and Im not talking about NYSC either when I say East of Yoruba everyone is looked at Isobo or Igbo.

If you want specifics of NYSC thats general for everyone whether North or South.

And we are telling u that a typical hausa/fula/kanuri trader will generally believe that his southern customer is Igbo...regardless of which southern tribe they are or how they are dressed

bibe:
You made some valid points but that wasn't exactly so. Historically, the Igbo and most other ethnicities in the Eastern region shared a lot in common. Eg killing of twins, the ekpe cult (Aro Confederacy+cross riverians) etc. There's always been mutual respect generally.

Enugu was chosen as capital just same way Abuja was chosen as capital and Lagos before it. Enugu was Igbo through and through so no issues of minorities being subsumed there. English was the ligua franca as obtains in Abuja and Lagos (while it was the capital). Knowledge of the language of the natives doesn't mean being subsumed but helps with communicating with the locals.

Like I said before the provincial system was adopted to ensure representation and even spread development most of which are still visible in the various states of today. Enugu and Port Harcourt experienced more rapid development due to coal (which held same value as oil of today) the rail from enugu to ph as well as the ph port and city came to be as a result of coal.

Revenue was mostly shared according to what you contributed. Abia, Anambra and present day Akwa ibom got more of the largesse on account of Palm oil revenue (you can research the economy of southern Nigeria before independence) so sometimes I don't really understand the cries about marginalisation. It's akin to crying that present day Rivers, Akwa ibom and bayelsa are marginalising the South East states on account of their crude oil revenue (13% derivation).

If you do a proper research on the economy of the Eastern region you'll understand that the issue of marginalisation is unfounded however you can already see from the analysis above that the economy was largely tilted to the igbos as at then and their numbers ultimately meant they'll dominate politically (numbers and money).

In conclusion, the system that obtained in the Eastern region was radically different to that of the northern region where there was clearly an agenda thus the issue of igbonisation is not plausible.

abeg help me tell them o. The ss guys who cried of marginalisation have not come out to tell us exactly how the eastern region marginalised them. There were provinces in the east as u pointed out and resources was shared according to contribution.

Language was not forced on anyone...otherwise them for still dey speak igbo till now...because i know that many benue ppl still speak hausa.

The marginalisation shouted was started by yoruba media who felt bad about mid western state creation...but that one was entirely different and was championed by edo ppl who thought themselves as a powerful tribe

Some of the discussions you guys are having, though your inputs clearly are intellectual, but its on the surface and failed to go deep into history of the peoples involved and the geo-political markers that existed pre colonial period. Nigeria is a post colonial state.

For instance you look at a place like Kaduna. Kaduna state is Gwariland, not Hausaland. The state itself, like Enugu are creations of Colonialists.

What was Kaduna before? What kingdom was ruler over the Gwaris? Did they have their kings or were they ruled by Chiefdoms that pay tributes to a superior king? Its all significant to understand the pre-Nigeria relationship between different nations.

selemempe:
abeg help me tell them o. The ss guys who cried of marginalisation have not come out to tell us exactly how the eastern region marginalised them. There were provinces in the east as u pointed out and resources was shared according to contribution.

Language was not forced on anyone...otherwise them for still dey speak igbo till now...because i know that many benue ppl still speak hausa.

The marginalisation shouted was started by yoruba media who felt bad about mid western state creation...but that one was entirely different and was championed by edo ppl who thought themselves as a powerful tribe

So there was no marginalisation before creation of MidWest?

So why were Ibos slaughtered in Jos and Kano before independence, was it not because Hausa felt marginalised that Ibos were dominating them?

You are gettingvready to ruin this nice thread. Typical of you.

selemempe:
And we are telling u that a typical hausa/fula/kanuri trader will generally believe that his southern customer is Igbo...regardless of which southern tribe they are or how they are dressed

Thats false!

Igbo and other landlocked tribes in Nigeria tend to look at everything from the single perspective of Nigeria. Nations like Yoruba look atvthings from a wider angle.

The national politics of Ghana, Togo, Benin, Nigeria are no different in terms of the multicultural components and inter-relationship between ethnics.

Hausas in Ghana, Togo, Benin dont view Yorubas in their midst as Igbo....so why would same Hausa in Nigeria now see Yoruba here as Igbo?

You lack geo-historical knowledge of West African peoples and their backgrounds. Again...this majority/minority issue cannot be resolved in isolation of historical markers that predate colonialism.

The Igbo majority itself was a creation of white man. Prior to that there was no central hierarchy in Eastern region.

selemempe:
This post made me laugh. And this is coming from a northerner o. When we tell our western neighbours that our fates are intertwined once we go up north, they will be doubting it. An hausaman respects an Igboman as the real opposition to Hausa/fulani hegemony. Therefore, once u cant clearly identify urself to an hausaman during crisis, u are an Igboman. Those corps members killed in 2011 election are mostly yorubas....but i can swear that their killers thought they were Igbos. To hausa illiterates, there are only two tribes in the south of nigeria - yoruba muslims and Inyamari (Igbos)

Exactly.
Only yoruba muslims can easily be distinguished as non-Igbos in some parts of the core-north.

BabaRamota1980:
Dont get carried away in the points you are making.

It is absolute bunkum to say Northerners are unable to differentiate Yoruba from the rest of Southerners.

The point you made about Igbo, Urhobo, Isoko, Ijaw being banded together is accurate. Even here in West we have difficulty differentiating and everyone East of Yorubaland is banded together as Isobo or Igbo. Even the Itshekiris who speak our language are sometimes mistaken as Isobo.

Why?

The answer is in culture. Until very recently Yorubas are the only ones in South that wear buba, sokoto and agbada and our hat is different from anyone else's. All non agbada wearing people in South are grouped as Isobo or Igbo. For women,Yorubas women are the only ones that do not wear two piece wrapper in South and they drape ipele on shoulder and gele on head. No other women group in South tied gele or draped ipele on shoulder or one wrapper on the waist. This is why Itshekiri is often mistaken as Isobo.

If Northerners find it hard to differentiate Yoruba it would only be a new thing and brought about byvthe Yoruba desire to dress in foreign attires not recognised for the Yoruba culture. All over Africa, the Yoruba dress, for men and women, is unique and identifiable.

In places like Kaduna and Kano cities though, due to how open these places are, the Hausas there know the difference between yorubas, Nupes, Igala, Idoma, Ebira, Southern Kadunas and other northern christians, but in other smaller cities and towns of the core-north, every christian is an Igbo regardless of your tribe, except you are a native maguzawa hausa christian or from any other northern tribe who speaks hausa fluently.


Igbos are everywhere in the north. In every single town and even villages, so all northerners know them very well. However, yorubas are not everywhere in the core-north and they are not known in some places. I know what I am telling you.
Only yoruba muslims can never be mistaken for Igbos anywhere cos they know all Igbos are christians.

However as you said, yorubas who dress in very traditional clothes might not easily be mistaken for Igbos. But except for elderly yoruba people, most young yoruba christians dress in more western clothes.

BabaRamota1980:
Thats false!

Igbo and other landlocked tribes in Nigeria tend to look at everything from the single perspective of Nigeria. Nations like Yoruba look atvthings from a wider angle.

The national politics of Ghana, Togo, Benin, Nigeria are no different in terms of the multicultural components and inter-relationship between ethnics.

Hausas in Ghana, Togo, Benin dont view Yorubas in their midst as Igbo....so why would same Hausa in Nigeria now see Yoruba here as Igbo?

You lack geo-historical knowledge of West African peoples and their backgrounds. Again...this majority/minority issue cannot be resolved in isolation of historical markers that predate colonialism.

The Igbo majority itself was a creation of white man. Prior to that there was no central hierarchy in Eastern region.

no need to argue...a northerner has already told u how it is in the north...take it or leave it...not my headache

BabaRamota1980:
So there was no marginalisation before creation of MidWest?

So why were Ibos slaughtered in Jos and Kano before independence, was it not because Hausa felt marginalised that Ibos were dominating them?

You are gettingvready to ruin this nice thread. Typical of you.

any prove of this? So northerners felt marginalised and started killing igbo? Pls in wat way did they feel marginalised? Show me believeable article about this ur post