₦airaland Forum

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I guess the second picture with inverter and batteries in it is your current setup.

Two challenges I see - your current RC 150 meter has an internal shunt (by design this will probably carry no more than 20amps of current safely - at a stretch perhaps 50amps) - you dedicated this RC meter to measuring just your solar power generation but not battery consumption per the diagram.

The new meter has an external shunt hopefully rated for higher amps and hopefully capable of bidirectional readings if you want to measure both amps into the battery and amps out of the battery - I have learnt from hard experience that a meter such as this new one you have rated for 100A should be derated to 50A max when placed in service.

How To Proceed in General... .

Switch off PV input breakers then inverter input breaker

1) Identify the battery and load side of the shunt - in your picture the battery side is the leftmost side with the small black wire connected to the large terminal that has a bolt and nut on it - the load side is the one with the small red wire attached.

2) The way the meter works is to measure the voltage drop across the battery and the load side of the shunt - there is a calibrated piece of metal with known resistance between the two big nuts/screws that have a tiny black and red wire attached to their bases. Those tiny black and red wires are measuring voltage drop between battery and load and given a known resistance (in the shunt) you can calculate the AMPs and or watts flowing from battery to load or from power source (load) into battery.

3) You will need to make a small jumper cable to connect from battery negative terminal to the battery side of the shunt else you bolt the battery side of the shunt directly to the battery negative terminal post if you can. This jumper cable should be as thick as possible and properly crimped

Key to note, the shunt is always connected to the negative cable/side of CC, batteries, inverter

4) Any thing you want to measure through the meter e.g CC amps into battery or inverter amps into battery you place of the load side of the shunt (right side of shunt with small red wire in your picture) - you first switch off the PV and inverter and then trip of DC breakers - disconnect negative terminal of inverter and CC from the battery and attach it to the load side of the shunt (side with small red wire) simply unscrew the nut from the shunt (load side) , connect the lug side of your inverter and CC negative cable through the bolt on the shunt (load side) and replace the nut and tighten.

It will be really long to type all the steps so if you can excuse my abysmal writing and drawing skills, I have attached a diagram that may help you - follow the big red +s for positive cable connections and the big black --s for negative cable connections. Please reach out freely in case of any questions

bigrovar:
Oh I see where the misconception is coming from. PV amps before cc is different from pv amps after cc. Usually the pv might produce something like 5amps at 30v.. once it gets to the cc, an mppt controller would then pull down the voltage and up the amps to like 10amp 14v (for a 12v system).

What my log is displaying is the amp after cc and the pv voltage. Some controllers have ability to display pv amp before cc and after cc.

in essence the right calculation for my watt is to multiply battery volt with amps after cc. This would give u the closest to the pv power. remember that pv watt before cc and pv watt after cc should be the about the same, only the volts and amps gets rearranged.

Thanks for breaking that down for me, now I get it, the current there has already been up-converted by the mppt cc.

Really awesome reporting yo!!

dapsyra:
All connections remain the same except the negative (-VE) of battery, CC and Inverter that will now be connected to the shunt according to the diagram below.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Lolz my Oga!



If I may, Oga Pranil is looking at a new GoodWe inverter despite having a Victron and 2 IpowerPlus amongst others... other folks here too could bring out all their collection - acquiring all these stuff just comes naturally to the enthusiast...

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Lolz. Do I detect a hint of low key 'dissing' in there?

I would say a lot of these tweaks and mods are need driven and of course there is always that passion and desire to push things to the next level.

I think I am just getting started though - now that I have managed to bypass the AVS30 so that it carries zero house loads but rather just sends a signal to the contactor to connect the loads when AC line voltage is within my preferred limits (208v to 235vAC), I am thinking of adding on a timer switch after the AVS30, the timer will allow the voltage signal to pass through only between 10PM and 4AM should it happen that mains supply from PHCN is available.

As you know I really don't need PHCN power for anything but my battery supplier showed me analysis that convinced me to use our cheap priced mains supply when available after sundown - if my expected battery life at 30% DoD was 5 years, I could ostensibly get an additional 2 or 3 years by not running off battery whenever battery can be substituted by mains supply. So, instead of being entirely offgrid as I was, now, during the day I will run off solar power and from evening I run off mains if available vs batteries hence shallower battery cycles and better longevity - we have mains supply 60% of the time where I live.

Another option I am thinking about is to use the 'solar priority mode' on my 6kw inverter vs 'utility priority' - in this mode, mains if available would run the house loads but not charge my batteries unless they are really low. In my usage scenario, the lowest voltage I have ever recorded is 49.0vDC and I was actually capacity testing my 48v 800Ah battery bank to get to that voltage. Really though, I am not yet ready to pull the plug on that 'solar priority' option except perhaps I divert the relay functions on my battery monitor to trigger mains charging to start once battery voltage drops below 49.9vDC

These are just some of the many tweaks I have been contemplating apart from trying to invent a battery low voltage disconnect device similar to Oga Sinistrian's except that this would be entirely independent of any battery monitor relay to work and thus save the end user some cash. If I can build a reliable battery LVD that can detect SoC and trigger a disconnect independently of any battery monitor, a lot of people would no longer need to buy a Fangpusun or Victron or other expensive battery monitor.

lexi28:
mr Niyi, concerning the earth test, you're okay. this link may explain better:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/19304/how-to-find-out-if-electrical-outlet-ground-is-working

same applies it your test case here.

Very nice you raised the issue. most clients are not even sure if they have functioning earthing at all.

my regards.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I guess the second picture with inverter and batteries in it is your current setup.

Two challenges I see - your current RC 150 meter has an internal shunt (by design this will probably carry no more than 20amps of current safely - at a stretch perhaps 50amps) - you dedicated this RC meter to measuring just your solar power generation but not battery consumption per the diagram.

The new meter has an external shunt hopefully rated for higher amps and hopefully capable of bidirectional readings if you want to measure both amps into the battery and amps out of the battery - I have learnt from hard experience that a meter such as this new one you have rated for 100A should be derated to 50A max when placed in service.

How To Proceed in General... .







Switch off PV input breakers then inverter input breaker

1) Identify the battery and load side of the shunt - in your picture the battery side is the leftmost side with the small black wire connected to the large terminal that has a bolt and nut on it - the load side is the one with the small red wire attached.

2) The way the meter works is to measure the voltage drop across the battery and the load side of the shunt - there is a calibrated piece of metal with known resistance between the two big nuts/screws that have a tiny black and red wire attached to their bases. Those tiny black and red wires are measuring voltage drop between battery and load and given a known resistance (in the shunt) you can calculate the AMPs and or watts flowing from battery to load or from power source (load) into battery.

3) You will need to make a small jumper cable to connect from battery negative terminal to the battery side of the shunt else you bolt the battery side of the shunt directly to the battery negative terminal post if you can. This jumper cable should be as thick as possible and properly crimped

Key to note, the shunt is always connected to the negative cable/side of CC, batteries, inverter

4) Any thing you want to measure through the meter e.g CC amps into battery or inverter amps into battery you place of the load side of the shunt (right side of shunt with small red wire in your picture) - you first switch off the PV and inverter and then trip of DC breakers - disconnect negative terminal of inverter and CC from the battery and attach it to the load side of the shunt (side with small red wire) simply unscrew the nut from the shunt (load side) , connect the lug side of your inverter and CC negative cable through the bolt on the shunt (load side) and replace the nut and tighten.

It will be really long to type all the steps so if you can excuse my abysmal writing and drawing skills, I have attached a diagram that may help you - follow the big red +s for positive cable connections and the big black --s for negative cable connections. Please reach out freely in case of any questions

godspeed:
Hello house,

I just installed solar panels in my apartment as there is no electricity where I am presently.

The solar panels output is 500 watts and I use a luminous tubular battery of 220 ah (12v)with a luminous Inverter of 1000 watts.

My power consumption is as FF

TV. 135 watts

Decoder. 500maH

Bulb. 5v

The issue is that the battery does not last for more than 2 hours at night even when the sun is hot throughout the day.

Note that I don't use it at daytime as I'm always at work.

Pls what could be the issue and possible solutions

makavele:
I use Ariston and if left untouched, it will retain its hotness for 3 days .. .

But when used, fresh cold water flows in to fill up slowly; then it retains the hotness for about 36 hours or so.

makavele:
I use Ariston and if left untouched, it will retain its hotness for 3 days .. .

But when used, fresh cold water flows in to fill up slowly; then it retains the hotness for about 36 hours or so.

pranil:
I would say now you have reached a level where you should be seriously thinking of ESS setup. Becuase at some point, the different logics end of getting complicated and prone to failure or misbehaving unless continuously tweaked (speaking from past experience.

In ESS setup when the AC is available the AC from the grid is only used if the solar is not enough so the system uses exactly the shortfall between solar and demand to keep batteries at 100 %

That was one of the main reasons ( along with lithium compatibility) for me to switch to Victron

Have a look at this video - Quite long but explains the ESS concept very well


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbpQzEZTElI

also shown a snapshot of my system in morning note the grid setpoint at 100 watt to avoid export

pranil:
Dont even start - If I have to list the spare materials, PCB, cables, sleeves, screws, display meters , MCB's boxes , various tools - I will need 2 to 3 pages .

The other day I asked the security guy and gardner to help me only sort and store the extra material accumulated over the last one year and it tool good 5 to 6 hours to sort and label them

hancock:
Confirmed shipper
and yes the items in the picture are mine which I ordered through him, you can also get good bargain on the Naira if you are placing bulk order
dear all, Christmas came early and my solar panels went live late yesterday evening and already pumping some juice early this morning before i left home. about 2000w (1980w to be precise) 6 nos 330w Canadian solar panels to manage for now ( If someone else reported using less Kw and powering his entire appliances, why can't I )
Thanks to zeestone99 and crew for a wonderful job well done

bigrovar, I'm coming for you next. i think i have some pi3 lying around. solar monitoring mode to be activated next
Cheers

ayinba1:
Quick question for the house. Is there any advantage to buying the component parts to build from the USA? Or are there brands that are obtainable in Nigeria and have been shown to be efficient?
If I can save on forex, I would love that!

Also, still asking about an estimate total figure for 1.8 to 2.0kVa, not the breakdown. I just want to know if I can dive into it

Thanks everyone

pranil:
The tubular battery is approximately 2.4 KWh so with inverter efficiency of 80 % you might get 2 KWH ( as No nepa at all )

your inverter is consuming 40-100wh per hour even if not used when there is no sun - check if the inverter has power saver mode and switch is on


also, keep in mind that 200 AH battery at 12 V should be used with C10 rate (max 200 watts load or less) anything more and the rated AH will drop as per phuekerts law - see the table below of similar Trojan battery note as you increase load the rated battery capacity falls

The minimum I would recommend of one TV +Decoder and few lights for full overnight use is 2 x 200 AH - Anything less and your battery will fail prematurely due to the high rate of charge-discharge

if you can give the model no of inverter I can check the efficiency and loss figures for you to better design the system

godspeed:
Thanks for the detailed explanation

My fear is the battery is not getting a full charge even when the sun is at full blast for more than seven hours and where I'm located, the sun is frying.

I said this because when I bought the battery new, I charged with electricity before the first use as advised, and I got an estimated 15 hour use from the full charge. Ever since then,the battery has never lasted for more than 2 hours even though I don't use it at all during the day and I have 500w panels.

I don't think my power consumption is even up to the 200w u advised cos my tv + decoder + 5w bulb adds up to just about 150 watts.

My fear of adding an additional battery (I have a spare old one that does 3 hrs on a full charge ) is that I'll need more panels to get a full charge which I feel is an unnecessary expense as I .mainly need to power the tv

The inverter is luminous eco volt 1050 and the pic is attached together with the charge controller.

pranil:
15 hours sounds about right for a new battery but never do that with any battery. from a 200 AH battery you should take maximum 50 % which is 1 to 1.2 KWH ( 100 watt 12 hours or 200 watt 5 hours roughly)

1. This inverter has an eco mode if not on pls. switch it on if not on
2. which charge controller you are using? the inverter does not have one
3. You may have continuously starved the battery of a full charge thus reducing the life. - All tubular batteries like to work not more than 30 % -50 % DOD for a good long life. Also they need a complete Bulk charge , absorb, float which may not be possible with your no of panels and load profile


500 watt panels will normally produce between 1.5 to 2 KWH ( assuming everything is perfect, alignment, position, weather)


you have two options

1. Occasionally use a generator to top up the batteries when you use them extensively such as weekend
2. reduce your usage to match the battery charging so they reach float every day with comfortable margin say by 4 PM
( I would invest in a cheap voltmeter at the least so that you can monitor your batteries)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Digital-Voltmeter-DC-Voltage-Panel-Meter-For-6V-12V-24V-Electromobile-Motorcycle-Car-with-Two-wire/32824519194.html - 2.5 USD

or better a cheap AH meter - 15 USD

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-100A-LCD-Combo-Meter-Voltage-current-KWh-Watt-Panel-Meter-12v-24v-48v-Battery/32672996346.html?

godspeed:
Thanks boss

The battery is still new, bought it two weeks ago

On option 2, I don't even use the battery in the afternoon at all as I'm always at work. I only need the battery to work for like four hours when I return home in the evening.

Pic of the controller

bigrovar:
There in lies the culprits. Roy solar.. Its you again ... Bro your inverter and solar charge controller have conspired to murder your battery. Even if you don't use those batteries they would still die. The inverter will never be able to charge those batteries properly. They won't be able to give it proper absorption charge (14.4v at the very least) and 15.3v for 2 hours of equalisation at least once a month. You won't get that from your inverter. The charge controller is even worse. Fortunately you have a tubular battery so the situation can still be saveged. Get a different inverter one of the powerstar series from Must or felicity if possible, get a tracer series charge controller and connect your panels in series. All this would set u back over a 100k. It is the price for bad installation. Solar is not cheap. You can't afford to make a mistake because it gets even more expensive.

Reprobate:
pls.a quick one.
i hv 12v x 4 x 200ah batts and a 5kva 48v inverter.i also hv 1800w solar panel..hooked to a 60amp cc...i hv a function at my place..and want to power my 2hp ac on the inverter for 2 to 4hrs..its not such a sunny day so output from panels maybe low..say 600w/15amps..my batts are on float now..so cant tell what the panels will contribute if/when i power thr gen.

so my question is. woyld running the 2hp split ac for 2 to 4hrs damage my batt bank?.
would prefer 2 scenarios
1.zero input from panels
2.15a to 20amps input from panels

bigrovar:
There in lies the culprits. Roy solar.. Its you again ... Bro your inverter and solar charge controller have conspired to murder your battery. Even if you don't use those batteries they would still die. The inverter will never be able to charge those batteries properly. They won't be able to give it proper absorption charge (14.4v at the very least) and 15.3v for 2 hours of equalisation at least once a month. You won't get that from your inverter. The charge controller is even worse. Fortunately you have a tubular battery so the situation can still be saveged. Get a different inverter one of the powerstar series from Must or felicity if possible, get a tracer series charge controller and connect your panels in series. All this would set u back over a 100k. It is the price for bad installation. Solar is not cheap. You can't afford to make a mistake because it gets even more expensive.

godspeed:
Thanks boss

The battery is still new, bought it two weeks ago

On option 2, I don't even use the battery in the afternoon at all as I'm always at work. I only need the battery to work for like four hours when I return home in the evening.

Pic of the controller

NiyiOmoIyunade:
2HP is about 1.5Kw - I have seen my own 2HP AC (Thermocool) draw as much as 2Kw when running because of additional components - blower fans e.t.c running.

A 2kw load will flatten your 48v 200Ah battery bank within 4 to 5 hours max even with your panels adding extra juice of 600w as you said. Regardless, your batteries would recover even if they were drained low just once but definitely a C4 or C5 discharge rate is very bad for C20 rated batteries such as you likely have.

More important is whether your 5Kva inverter can even bear the >2kw load at all? What make is the inverter? transformer based or transfornerless? Have you been using the 2HP AC on the inverter before now?

I suggest you simply bypass the inverter and use your Gen to power your 2HP AC for this event/function at your place to avoid any regrets..... except you have been running the 2HP AC off the Inverter on a regular basis in the past?

bigrovar:
There in lies the culprits. Roy solar.. Its you again ... Bro your inverter and solar charge controller have conspired to murder your battery. Even if you don't use those batteries they would still die. The inverter will never be able to charge those batteries properly. They won't be able to give it proper absorption charge (14.4v at the very least) and 15.3v for 2 hours of equalisation at least once a month. You won't get that from your inverter. The charge controller is even worse. Fortunately you have a tubular battery so the situation can still be saveged. Get a different inverter one of the powerstar series from Must or felicity if possible, get a tracer series charge controller and connect your panels in series. All this would set u back over a 100k. It is the price for bad installation. Solar is not cheap. You can't afford to make a mistake because it gets even more expensive.

S007:
Roy solar ke! You better remove that CC if you want to sleep well. I advice you contact the reputable suppliers here for good replacement. If possible, start your DIY from there.

godspeed:
Thanks bro

In all honesty, deep down, I have always suspected the charge controller.

I have no problems changing it if it is definitely it's the cause of the problem.

Can I be sure I'll enjoy up to 15 hrs (the battery' s full charge capacity )if I get a new charge controller ? Which do you recommend ?

Then, do I really also need to change the inverter too. I think the inverter is ok, it's one of the best out there for home use

bigrovar:
There in lies the culprits. Roy solar.. Its you again ... Bro your inverter and solar charge controller have conspired to murder your battery. Even if you don't use those batteries they would still die. The inverter will never be able to charge those batteries properly. They won't be able to give it proper absorption charge (14.4v at the very least) and 15.3v for 2 hours of equalisation at least once a month. You won't get that from your inverter. The charge controller is even worse. Fortunately you have a tubular battery so the situation can still be saveged. Get a different inverter one of the powerstar series from Must or felicity if possible, get a tracer series charge controller and connect your panels in series. All this would set u back over a 100k. It is the price for bad installation. Solar is not cheap. You can't afford to make a mistake because it gets even more expensive.

Reprobate:
thanks for the prompt response.
yes i hv powered a normal 1.5hp ac + 1hp inverter ac simultaneously b4..inverter shows 61% load..
i couldnt wait and powered the 2hp ac..load displayed was 11% with only the indoor unit blowing..and jumped to 56% when the outdoor unit kicked in..battery voltage dropped from float of 58v to 50.8v..cc input is btw 550w to 650w..not a sunny day..
intend to keep an eye on the batt voltage..so it doesnt go below 48v...batts hv been having an easy life..never gone below 49.2v on normal use.its a highpower inverter