₦airaland Forum

FOLYKAZE:
What are you saying Uncle?

I am not arguing contacts with you but that Ifa acknowledge other people who are not and share no history with Yoruba existence.



This man won push this matter for my head. Lol.

You are learned than I am. Oju e la n wo Baba.

Pangeae was centered in Africa. Reseach held that Man originated from Africa. The popular garden of Eden is said to be situated in Africa. Also, our creation story stated that origin of man started in Ile-ife, a location in Africa. Everything is centered on Africa. Africa is a very big landmass so the question is where exactly in Africa?.

We all know the origin of man Points Africa. Some said the exact location is Ethiopia. Yoruba creation account noted that Ife Oodaye is this place. Ile-Ife too is often refered to Oodaye but nevertheless, Oodaye is here in Africa. So we need to know if Oodaye is our Ile-ife in Osunsatet or somewhere in Ethiopia or other part of Africa.

The irony here though is that an initiate believing Ifa lied and Oodaye is myth.



Ya I know




myth is synonymous to lie and false tale.



I though Odi meji is Odu that tells the story of Eshu....

Are you then assuming Oduduwa who came down on a chain does not exist but the one lived in Ife, Oranmiyan father existed?

Are you creating division for what is true and false?

Do you think Ifa has ever lied?

No. if Oduduwa that came with a chain didn't exist then earth as it is today will not exist. I believe what 9jacrip is saying is that oduduwa here is a myth - which is a story important for traditions and rituals.
but doesn't mean things happened the way they are told in the myths ie. Where did Obatala see palm wine before the earth was formed? where did Akuko and snail shell come from? what about the Agemo that came to test the land?

Oduduwa - the myth - beat Obatala to the creation of Ife Oodaye
this myth either inspired the later naming of the two men who fought for the Crown in Ile-Ife or the myth was formed after the civil war between the two men

foreveryours:
Good morning
I still need your assistance in getting a place to learn IFA
Any help pls

If you are in Nigeria, you can get babalawo that will teach you Ifa especially in any town in the south-west.

macof:
No. if Oduduwa that came with a chain didn't exist then earth as it is today will not exist. I believe what 9jacrip is saying is that oduduwa here is a myth - which is a story important for traditions and rituals.
but doesn't mean things happened the way they are told in the myths ie. Where did Obatala see palm wine before the earth was formed? where did Akuko and snail shell come from? what about the Agemo that came to test the land?

Oduduwa - the myth - beat Obatala to the creation of Ife Oodaye
this myth either inspired the later naming of the two men who fought for the Crown in Ile-Ife or the myth was formed after the civil war between the two men

Do you know any Odu Ifa that speaks about Gap theory (Ooday and Ooyelagbo)?

FOLYKAZE:
Do you know any Odu Ifa that speaks about Gap theory (Ooday and Ooyelagbo)?

Not really but I'm aware Osa Ogunda and Ogbefun are the odu that talk about Oodaye and Ooyelagbo very well.

I also believe in the gap theory. ..I think yoruba have traditions relating to that

macof:
Not really but I'm aware Osa Ogunda and Ogbefun are the odu that talk about Oodaye and Ooyelagbo very well.

I also believe in the gap theory. ..I think yoruba have traditions relating to that

I wish to I can listen to the Odus.

However, I strongly disagree on your submission with regard to myth.

Myth is the opposite of truth. There is this verse from Ifa that goes thus; iri tiwili tiwili ni a fi aiye. This statement mean the earth was formed in dew dropplet like. This is basic fact as to planet formation.

Chameleon, snail, fowl and the likes are metaphoric elements used in explaining the creation story. Metaphor is more fatual than myth

FOLYKAZE:
I wish to I can listen to the Odus.

However, I strongly disagree on your submission with regard to myth.

Myth is the opposite of truth. There is this verse from Ifa that goes thus; iri tiwili tiwili ni a fi aiye. This statement mean the earth was formed in dew dropplet like. This is basic fact as to planet formation.

Chameleon, snail, fowl and the likes are metaphoric elements used in explaining the creation story. Metaphor is more fatual than myth

pls familiarize yourself with the word mythology. even the Greeks called their stories mythology. .. etymological broken down to "Body of Stories" or "Study of Lores"

a story that already employs metaphors and symbolic personification is nothing but myth

macof:
pls familiarize yourself with the word mythology. even the Greeks called their stories mythology. .. etymological broken down to "Body of Stories" or "Study of Lores"

a story that already employs metaphors and symbolic personification is nothing but myth

Bros everyone know what a myth and figure of speech is. They both are body of story and convey a message but one entails false, imaginary and fantasy stories while the other entails allegory, parable, non-literal and metaphoric truth.

Example of myth is the popular belief that monsters live in the market and trade with human. We all know there is no monster walking with it head in the market. The whole story is imaginary and mythical. No substance of truth or verificable evidence for any of mythical story. It has a synonmys which are fable, fabrications,, tales, fantasy, legend and folklores. Antonyms of myth is truth, verity, etc. From the definition, synonmys and antonmys, we can conclude myth is the samething as opposite of truth.

However, figure of speech contain substance of truth, verificable fact which can be tested and examined. Figure of speech is a figurative language which can be a special repetition, arrangement or omission of words with literal meaning, or a phrase with a specialized meaning not based on the literal meaning of the words. Similes and metaphor and personification are very much alike. They are descibe without diluting the truth but giving it a clearer and understandable picture.

Myth is plain and literal while figure of speech is not.

Now lets bring these lots into Ifa corpus and stories. Ifa account cannot be myth because Orunmila will not tell a lie but will rather express itself in a symbolic and metaphoric manner.

Old time myth have been debunked, destroyed and thrown into trash bin by almighty science. Though myth is a popular belief but can never stand in the face of truth and fact. Figure of speech in it own case will.

The popular belief and myths that states earth is flat has been trashed by fact. Didnt Ifa stated that Earth is spherical (Obiri l'aiye) and it is moving? Has the Yoruba account been trashed like mythical flat earth position of the bible?

You will need to deploy science and have intelligent capacity to decode Ifa. You will finally see for yourself that it contain truths and no lie is rolled up into it because Ifa is not myth but a figurative language of our intelligent ancestors who do better than Eistein.

FOLYKAZE:
Bros everyone know what a myth and figure of speech is. They both are body of story and convey a message but one entails false, imaginary and fantasy stories while the other entails allegory, parable, non-literal and metaphoric truth.

Example of myth is the popular belief that monsters live in the market and trade with human. We all know there is no monster walking with it head in the market. The whole story is imaginary and mythical. No substance of truth or verificable evidence for any of mythical story. It has a synonmys which are fable, fabrications,, tales, fantasy, legend and folklores. Antonyms of myth is truth, verity, etc. From the definition, synonmys and antonmys, we can conclude myth is the samething as opposite of truth.

However, figure of speech contain substance of truth, verificable fact which can be tested and examined. Figure of speech is a figurative language which can be a special repetition, arrangement or omission of words with literal meaning, or a phrase with a specialized meaning not based on the literal meaning of the words. Similes and metaphor and personification are very much alike. They are descibe without diluting the truth but giving it a clearer and understandable picture.

Myth is plain and literal while figure of speech is not.

Now lets bring these lots into Ifa corpus and stories. Ifa account cannot be myth because Orunmila will not tell a lie but will rather express itself in a symbolic and metaphoric manner.

Old time myth have been debunked, destroyed and thrown into trash bin by almighty science. Though myth is a popular belief but can never stand in the face of truth and fact. Figure of speech in it own case will.

The popular belief and myths that states earth is flat has been trashed by fact. Didnt Ifa stated that Earth is spherical (Obiri l'aiye) and it is moving? Has the Yoruba account been trashed like mythical flat earth position of the bible?

You will need to deploy science and have intelligent capacity to decode Ifa. You will finally see for yourself that it contain truths and no lie is rolled up into it because Ifa is not myth but a figurative language of our intelligent ancestors who do better than Eistein.

to be honest. .i sometimes feel its pointless trying to get you to understand something. cus u don't want to accept you were mistaken. I don't know why I still try

If the Greeks called their stories mythology. .they must have known what "mythology" means" and it certainly didn't mean "lie" or "falsehood".
science still makes reference to greek mythology. ..jst look around planets are named after Roman names for Greek mythological characters, the hypothetical planetary-mass that collided with earth to form the moon is named after a greek mythical character Theia said to have birthed the moon(Selene). the Orion star constellation is named after a greek mythical character


calling mythology falsehood has nothing to do with science, Christians were the ones who picked a fist against the Greek classics as falsehood not scientists.

you will have to explain how orunmila going to heaven by climbing a palm tree is not mythology. how Obatala getting drunk before the earth was formed is not mythology but Chronos vomiting his children is mythology...isn't that double standards? who said Ifa lies? nobody here. what about the oracles of other people? Are Yorubas the only ones that use metaphor?

please take time to understand the word "mythology". Gaia, Zeus, Orion, Uranus etc are myths doesn't mean they are lies. they are just figurative. .and even the Greeks knew that

Ife oodaye is wadai be in central African republic c

Ife oodaye is wadai e in central African republic

macof:
Actually Orunmila was originally from Ado (although not called ado then)...

Oodaye if real, existed long before Ire...ire is a contemporary of Ife Ooye.

one thing I'm not sure of is, if Ife was never centralized before Oduduwa what areas constitute Ife Ooye? can we say all major yoruba centers of that time was part of Ife Ooye

Are you referring to the capital of Ekiti State?

Akell:
Are you referring to the capital of Ekiti State?

Yes. Oke-Igeti is the origin of Orunmila and that is in the Ekiti state capital
Many Obas in Ekiti are children of Orunmila

FOLYKAZE:
You agree human share the same ancestry but getting thick that no one claim in their history that their clan or family is the only human which populate this planet.

Ifa which tells much about the Yoruba history did not mention that Yoruba people are the only ones living in this planet. Some distant nation, tribe and clans were mentioned which does not share or have it history linked with that of the Yoruba. The first human were travellers. They knew some people have emigrated and could settle in other lands.

The story from other ethnic group suggested that a particular god created human. No creation story suggested that a god created some particular people in a location and then moved to anther location to create another set of people. Ifa did not say Obatala created Yoruba and later moved to Kenya or China to create another set of people. Human are from the same ancestors and our tradition foretell story says that too.

Now,another thing is Ife which is seen as the place where this creation job was done. Other ethnic story might use another name. This is just a name but it all points to the fact that this indeed took place in a location. Science have stated the human cradle is Africa.. . The question now is where in africa. Is it Ife of Osun state or there is another location which was probably called Ife? Ithink this is what the thread is investigating.

Where did Ifa say you can take one that suit you from the verse you quoted? Those are what made up what we call Ifa. Removing one out of it will discredit and makes the whole useless

We cannot talk about creation and human history without making reference to the Bible, after all, is only one supreme God. I feel the ife oodaye, is the world before the flood and Ife oyee is the current ile Ife where the Ark of Noah rested. ( Oyee means survive) this could mean that the Ife that survived the flood.

I can only take Oduduwa as Noah perhaps he used chain to alight from the Ark.

The Earth is parted by waters.

We can investigate more into all of this, we should not just push them away as a myth.

Present Ife is Ife Ooyelagbo (Ife Ooye).

Ife Oodaye is a myth at best to me.

Yes, Ife is one of the few old towns in Yoruba that have remained on the same spot since founding.

Then if what you are saying is right that Ife Oodaye is a myth then we can say all the records in Ifa Corpus is a myth. I do not believe you have enough knowledge to educate people on this subject. It is a fact that all Yoruba Irunmole's (divine beings) existed at one point in the past. Today, each day of the year (except one day) in Ile-Ife is a festival day for each of the 401 Irunmoles. Tell me where on earth today that anything like this exist.

RemiOAjayi:
We cannot talk about creation and human history without making reference to the Bible, after all, is only one supreme God. I feel the ife oodaye, is the world before the flood and Ife oyee is the current ile Ife where the Ark of Noah rested. ( Oyee means survive) this could mean that the Ife that survived the flood.

I can only take Oduduwa as Noah perhaps he used chain to alight from the Ark.

The Earth is parted by waters.

We can investigate more into all of this, we should not just push them away as a myth.

As usual what you know is determined by the depth of your knowledge. Before christianity there was IFA Corpus of the Yoruba people that gave an extensive account of creation, which is more detailed than what is in the bible. Thankfully you can read an interpretation of the verses in Ifa called "Odu Ogunda" as presented by a foremost Ifa priest: https://www.obafemio.com/uploads/5/1/4/2/5142021/the_creation_story.pdf"

The problem is that our people so much despise themselves and see nothing valid in themselves that only a white man can tell them their history. Meanwhile, even the white man history and sojourn out of Ile-Ife is given in Ifa. "My people perish for lack of wisdom".

FOLYKAZE:
You agree human share the same ancestry but getting thick that no one claim in their history that their clan or family is the only human which populate this planet.

Ifa which tells much about the Yoruba history did not mention that Yoruba people are the only ones living in this planet. Some distant nation, tribe and clans were mentioned which does not share or have it history linked with that of the Yoruba. The first human were travellers. They knew some people have emigrated and could settle in other lands.

The story from other ethnic group suggested that a particular god created human. No creation story suggested that a god created some particular people in a location and then moved to anther location to create another set of people. Ifa did not say Obatala created Yoruba and later moved to Kenya or China to create another set of people. Human are from the same ancestors and our tradition foretell story says that too.

Now,another thing is Ife which is seen as the place where this creation job was done. Other ethnic story might use another name. This is just a name but it all points to the fact that this indeed took place in a location. Science have stated the human cradle is Africa.. . The question now is where in africa. Is it Ife of Osun state or there is another location which was probably called Ife? Ithink this is what the thread is investigating.

Where did Ifa say you can take one that suit you from the verse you quoted? Those are what made up what we call Ifa. Removing one out of it will discredit and makes the whole useless

Let us start with this.
1. What is the meaning of Ile-Ife? It mean "land of expansion".
2. What has modern day astronomers shown about the creation of the universe? That the universe has been expanding from start of creation. Does that make sense?
3. Does any other religious book give account of a possibility of the Big Bang theory as proposed by modern day astronomers? None to my knowledge except Ifa Corpus in the Odu Ogunda that says (in Yoruba and English):

Iri tu wili tu wili (May the dew burst out quickly)
Iri tu wili tu wili (May the dew burst out quickly)
Iri tu wili wili (May the dew burst out rapidly)
Koo tu reke-reke (May the dew burst out continuously)
Dia fun Olu-Iwaye (It was also declared for Olu-Iwaye)
Ti nloo p’ero si ibu orun ati aye in kutukutu owuro (When going to sooth and pacify the hotness of the universe in the early dawn of time)

The last line above present an evidence that early creation was likely a violent event that needed to be quelled. I even heard the present Ooni of Ife mention the Big Bang theory as part of the creation story (in this video below). It's only in Ile-Ife that I know people have a festival for celebrating the "first light or daylight" of creation (Olojo Festival). Olojo means "owner of the day".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E38I0MnNwY

Go here to read the complete narration and interpretation of the Odu Ogunda creation story as presented by a foremost Ifa priest: https://www.obafemio.com/uploads/5/1/4/2/5142021/the_creation_story.pdf

ajl:
Let us start with this.
1. What is the meaning of Ile-Ife? It mean "land of expansion".
2. What has modern day astronomers shown about the creation of the universe? That the universe has been expanding from start of creation. Does that make sense?
3. Does any other religious book give account of a possibility of the Big Bang theory as proposed by modern day astronomers? None to my knowledge except Ifa Corpus in the Odu Ogunda that says (in Yoruba and English):

Iri tu wili tu wili (May the dew burst out quickly)
Iri tu wili tu wili (May the dew burst out quickly)
Iri tu wili wili (May the dew burst out rapidly)
Koo tu reke-reke (May the dew burst out continuously)
Dia fun Olu-Iwaye (It was also declared for Olu-Iwaye)
Ti nloo p’ero si ibu orun ati aye in kutukutu owuro (When going to sooth and pacify the hotness of the universe in the early dawn of time)

The last line above present an evidence that early creation was likely a violent event that needed to be quelled. I even heard the present Ooni of Ife mention the Big Bang theory as part of the creation story (in this video below). It's only in Ile-Ife that I know people have a festival for celebrating the "first light or daylight" of creation (Olojo Festival). Olojo means "owner of the day".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E38I0MnNwY

Go here to read the complete narration and interpretation of the Odu Ogunda creation story as presented by a foremost Ifa priest: https://www.obafemio.com/uploads/5/1/4/2/5142021/the_creation_story.pdf

1. Where is the plan of redemption of man in the Yoruba mythology?
2. Where is the plan of salvation of man in the Yoruba mythology?
3. Where is the plan of man's reconciliation back to God in the Yoruba mythology?
4. Where is the plan of the end of death, disease, sorrow, pain, blood and tears in the Yoruba mythology?

Give your replies in the same numbered up styles, so to be able to easily follow your answer. Also state clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt your replies to those easy, direct, simple, innocent, harmless and straight to the point questions