₦airaland Forum

It looks to me that Churches in the south are sleeping when there is adversity. A pastor in the north can understand what is happening but as we travel down south, to Lagos and other places in the south, we see that the Church is sleeping.

Sleeping in adversity is irresponsibility confirmed and calamity established.

Dr Pastor Paul Enenche

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1459318357545364&id=444807728996437

Seun Mynd44 lalasticlala

Truth is Christianity seems weakest in the most peaceful places across the world. Places like South east and south south Nigeria are particularly at risk of lukewarm christianity.

This i believe is the issue,
Cycle 1

when Christianity enters a territory newly it is riled up completely. Its adherents summon the power core and fight for dominance, it displaces existing religions and becomes supreme. If oppressed you are simply adding fuel to fire because oppression makes christianity grow! Why? Its adherents are well scripturally prepared for persecution. This is why Christianity in Indonesia, the largest muslim country in the world as seen christianity grow by almost 100% in the last decade, while Palestine has the highest christian missionary/populace in the world.

Cycle 2
Christianity gains prominence and begins to evolve the society. At this stage it takes a political structure and begins to alter the way of life of the people. It overthrows cultural norms and installs her own.

Cycle 3
Christianity gains full dominance. At this point it has little or no opposition, it is easier becoming a pastor, priest at this stage as no sensible govt would dare confront the church or her clergy. It becomes lucrative for many to join as people are more receptive to hearing about jesus and the bible..

Cycle 4
Many join the pastorate - both called and uncalled and begin to cause confusion. Ministeries start creating different doctrines, some borne out of true understanding while others are based on inherent societal traditions, poor understanding etc. At this stage abuse also become rife, "pastors" starts sleeping with members, greed sets in. While some others genuinely continue the great commission.
Also, because of doctrinal differences, debates emerge as to whose church is correct.

Cycle 5
The debates do damage to Christians!
Due to the occurences of cycle 4 many realise that since the church can't get a united doctrine system then the church isn't infallible. Also, many who in one way or the other were traumatized by the abusers who seeped in at cycle 4 develop a firewall for anything christian. People then begin to question the relevance of Christianity itself and before you know it you have christians who identify with jesus but reject the church. Unfortunately, such Christians find it nearly impossible to impart jesus in their kids. The kids grow up knowing less about Jesus and find it easier to question the existence of God. Since God exist in the realm of faith and not of senses they wouldn't find God. They become atheist and mock Christianity tirelessly and endlessly.

Sometimes i think radically, and i think if all the pastors in Nigeria were jailed for being pastors. I strongly belief that in few days Nigeria would have less pastors because most of the false ones would have abandoned Christianity and ran away - especially those in Abuja, Port harcourt and Lagos. The true ones would remain and those are the ones we need. The pastorate as it is today is too easy to join and lucrative for insincere people and that is our fundamental problem in Christianity.

Southern Christians are not proactive as they should.

Na there flexing dey na plus say dey no too dey get problem

HigherEd:
Cycle 5
The debates do damage to Christians!
Due to the occurences of cycle 4 many realise that since the church can't get a united doctrine system then the church isn't infallible.

What do you have to say to differing doctrines? I'm not talking about those "some borne out of true understanding" why do doctrines differ despite all doctrines claiming to have been ministered by the same holy spirit? is holy spirit telling the truth to just one and lying to others?

Unfortunately, such Christians find it nearly impossible to impart jesus in their kids. The kids grow up knowing less about Jesus and find it easier to question the existence of God. Since God exist in the realm of faith and not of senses they wouldn't find God.

I'm afraid the above is not biblical at all. the Yahweh of the bible existed based on good and undeniable evidence whether you now want to follow his institutions is where faith comes in. to disprove my assertion you're to give names of people in the bible who believed Yahweh existed only based on faith first

hopefulLandlord:
What do you have to say to differing doctrines? I'm not talking about those "some borne out of true understanding" why do doctrines differ despite all doctrines claiming to have been ministered by the same holy spirit? is holy spirit telling the truth to just one and lying to others?

I'm afraid the above is not biblical at all. the Yahweh of the bible existed based on good and undeniable evidence whether you now want to follow his institutions is where faith comes in. to disprove my assertion you're to give names of people in the bible who believed Yahweh existed only based on faith first

Interesting question. But i'm not really interested in arguing all night because i know you are essentially just looking for a way to box me into one corner. But i would reply your questions.

1) Not all doctrines emanate from the Holy spirit. Infact most doctrines are man made. I believe Christ isn't interested in controlling our lives like robots. He just wants a genuine relationship based on love.

2) That was the problem you see. God showing himself didn't make the Isrealites any better, Neither did that make them trust God. It didn't make Adam obedient either. So the absense of grand miracles isn't the problem.

Secondly, in the OT, God led a Nation. In the NT he leads individuals. The emphasis therefore isn't doing "national" miracles.

Your last question assumes folks in the bible were atheist needing conversion. 95% of people who lived in those times believed one god or the other. So it was simply a question of which god to follow and not requiring evidences to belief the supernatural exist.

So those in the north aren't Christain Enough?
Just two or three Christains can revive Nigeria if it pleases The Lord
Matt18:
18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
19“Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

HigherEd:
Interesting question. But i'm not really interested in arguing all night because i know you are essentially just looking for a way to box me into one corner. But i would reply your questions.

I'm not here to box anyone, if I were I would be a lot more combative. I just feel you explained why the church regresses and it raises salient issues

1) Not all doctrines emanate from the Holy spirit. Infact most doctrines are man made. I believe Christ isn't interested in controlling our lives like robots. He just wants a genuine relationship based on love.

That right there is the question, even those doctrines that you conclude are not "man-made" differ from another that are not "man-made", why?

2) That was the problem you see. God showing himself didn't make the Isrealites any better, Neither did that make them trust God. It didn't make Adam obedient either. So the absense of grand miracles isn't the problem.

Exactly! he showed himself with good and undeniable evidence, whether they're to follow his instructions is where faith comes in. Just like evidence my parents exist are undeniable and good but I still need to trust their judgement 100% for me to follow their instructions to the letter. you made my point for me

Secondly, in the OT, God led a Nation. In the NT he leads individuals. The emphasis therefore isn't doing "national" miracles.

I fail to see the relevance of the above

Your last question assumes folks in the bible were atheist needing conversion. 95% of people who lived in those times believed one god or the other. So it was simply a question of which god to follow and not requiring evidences to belief the supernatural exist.

I never mentioned atheists in any way sir. read my post again. I mentioned a specific God (Yahweh). I said there's absolutely NOBODY in the entire bible who believed Yahweh existed only based on faith first. the evidence he existed came first. Abram was serving another God but Yahweh spoke directly to him straight. nobody (third party) preached to him that Yahweh exists. evidence happened first (enough evidence to convince him) then belief/faith followed. why is it that these days preachers think Yahweh does not exist outside the realm of faith OR say one should Believe first before evidence would come? it seems to me a total reversal and runs contradictory of the Bible
Its almost as if the God Christians serve today is not the same God in the Bible

hopefulLandlord:
I never mentioned atheists in any way sir. read my post again. I mentioned a specific God (Yahweh). I said there's absolutely NOBODY in the entire bible who believed Yahweh existed only based on faith first. the evidence he existed came first. Abram was serving another God but Yahweh spoke directly to him straight. nobody (third party) preached to him that Yahweh exists. evidence happened first (enough evidence to convince him) then belief/faith followed. why is it that these days preachers think Yahweh does not exist outside the realm of faith OR say one should Believe first before evidence would come? it seems to me a total reversal and runs contradictory of the Bible
Its almost as if the God Christians serve today is not the same God in the Bible

Two things you are conflicting here - evidence and logic. When i said you can't arrive at theism with sense. I mean you are most likely unable to postulate God or find theoretical proof for his existence.

The woman with the issue of blood, the centurion, thief at the right side of jesus are many out of millions who believed before seeing. In my case evidence came even before i accepted Jesus(probably because i was young) . I have gone on to have astounding testimonies of God's faithfulness and mercy. As i said i am not ready to have a prolonged argument about this because it's too exhausting. Belief what you may, it is your fundamental human right.