Guitarlife:

I am a bit confused by your stand in the bolded ?
1. Are you saying its okay to divorce ?
2. Are you a christian or muslim, its the holy book that says women should submit if you want to have a happy and long lasting marriage not me (Turns out the book is right as nations that have this order reversed have the highest divorce rates).
3. Each person has a choice to make, for me I have decided it is in my best interest to avoid women who want to stand up to their men. Are you saying there are no women even in the western countries who do not consider submission slavery ? Are you saying all the women abroad stand up to their men and form equality?
4. Lastly, are you inferring that the only set of women that submit are those that are financially handicapped ?
5 . I had to address the last bolded, Marriage for you may appear like an hobby or a to-do list but for some men, men like me its a lifetime commitment to support and remain faithful to one partner. Now you'd agree it will be tragic to get married to a lady who thinks she has the right to pop out of marriage at the slightest hint of unhappiness like you have posited she has a right to, ofcourse she does but I do not pray to meet such a woman in this life .
I pray for a woman who understands the sanctity of marriage and is ready to weather the storm even in those times when things will not be rosy, this is life and not a film or hollywood fantasy movie, challenges will come and such a woman with the mindset you described above will run.

salford:
Sometimes the women are not even aware that they have stopped being submissive. Alot of women from Nigeria are used to having househelp and that neice or nephew from village doing all the running around. By the time they get here, normal everyday task could become overwhelming, then women request that their husband help them with house chores...na there the wahala dey start.

maternal:


I don't know why you're confused. But I'll answer your question.

1. YES when necessary. I've seen females in my family almost get killed by their husbands because of the stigma of being a divorcee. If your life is in danger or you're simply not happy, and you think the marriage is irreparable; then YES people should get divorced. We only have one life to live. = = The bolded explains part of the reason why it is almost impossible for you to be objective, it looks like you have seen so much to the point of trauma, I won't blame you if you refuse to believe that not all men are evil.

2. My religion is nobody business. Stop turning this into a religious debate. But I do know religion can be skewed or manipulated into ones best interests. I cant stand people who pick and chooses parts of their religion/holy book to benefit their own interests. == I am not using religion in anyway I am just quoting what it says , I haven't said anything different from what is written in the book and yes I am a practicing christian by the way which compels me to love one woman and remain faithful to her.

3. LOL stand up to their man ? So a woman shouldn't have a voice or opinion ? So she should cook your food, have your child, do as you say, then open her legs at night for you. Then the cycle begins the follow day. The sec she says she doesn't want to do X, then she's "standing up to her man". I need you to elaborate what you mean by that. And yes most women stand up to their man in the west and form equality. She'd be stupid not too. Many woman have died for such a right. == I don't know why your mindset is pre-configured to be negative not just negative but the lowest ends of it. With this kind of imagination it will be impossible to have a decent and objective discussion with you.

4. YES. Any man who feels a woman loves to be treated unfairly is an idiot. Give a woman economic power and you'll see how she really feels about you. You think woman abroad are just more stronger than the woman in naija ? The woman abroad have a system that'll help them.

5. LOL Abeg go and sit down. Remain faithful to one partner ? A naija man ? Marriage for you is the ability to f^ck as many woman as you like. While your wife remains at home, submissive, while doing everything you say like a house girl. Who do you think you're fooling here ? Pop out of marriage at the slightest hint of unhappiness ? Bros, if your wife cheated on you with another man, would you stay and work it out ? Be honest with your answer Mr Saint. == To be honest when I got to this point its looking like this issue is a personal one now, I do not know what you are going through/have gone through in your marriage but please you need to let it go, the venom, the vitriol, the hatred , let it go.

Why would any man want a woman to remain in a marriage she's not happy in ? Seriously. Is it insecurity ? I'm confused.

Tojued:
@guitarlife, apologies and no strong opinions on my part, but I find your views on mariage troubling. Simply because they are based on so many pre-expectations!
You seem to have formed this very rigid, narrow concept of marriage. Have you been married before?
If you haven't, then I can tell you confidently that a key recipe to a happy marriage is building your own formular as a couple, not resting on any societal or religious expectations. And this formular is one you will only discover when you have an open mind, are willing to be flexible, and wake up everyday thinking of how to make your better half happy.
Expecting the so called submission is a very strong expectation! What exactly is submission self? Biko, give me example lol.
Pre-Expectations kill marital happiness. The mentors helping you build those expectations while you're single, you don't know the real shii going on in their home.
And I do agree that divorce rates are low in Nigeria because women have nowhere to go plus boxed in mindset. It is unfortunate but true that a good number of our ladies are not truly empowered. Marriage is sacred true but be sure 90% of unhappy mariages here aren't sticking together just because of their religious convictions. After all 90% of Nigerians only claim their religion in name and not in action. Abi the only area we suddenly know how to obey God is not to divorce?
In the same West where you're condemning lack of submission, couples have survived decades together!
Not trying to argue or disregard/disrespect or change your view point, just sharing knowledge I personally had to learn the hard way.
All the best and wishing you tons of happiness ahead.

maternal:


Exactly ! You have to adapt to your environment or wherever you're living. In the west you need both partners to be working in most cases, unless you're rich. After doing 8 hour days, 1 hour commute each way, making it a total of a 10 hour day. These "men" will now want their wives to have dinner freshly made, their bathe water hot and ready, etc. Then before they sleep they'll want some toto. All this along with her 10 hour day, can make it easily a 12 hour day. Then if you have kids, oh boy. But if the woman says it's too much to handle, or come and give me help, she's now a witch, trying to be the head of the household. I tire for these cave men parading around as actual men.

maternal:


You make no sense and contradict yourself. But I want you to still answer my one question.

"Bros, if your wife cheated on you with another man, would you stay and work it out ? Be honest with your answer Mr Saint."

Answer the question.

Guitarlife:


What is your own definition of submission ?
And I dont know how this happened but it seems everybody on this thread seem to be pre-conditioned that men are evil, unfaithful, unloving, wicked and cheating bast***ards.

Therefore every body seems to be prejudiced by default against the men. It doesn't bring much objectivity in my own opinion.
The question you have asked is a typical example of subjective thinking, maybe our upbringing in Africa may have messed up our mentality but there are still faithful, loving and matured men who understand the biblical definition of the place of a 'Man" and plays it appropriately.

The problem now is the issue of women who feel discontent in their position as women, a perfect recipe for disaster in any family.

So to answer your question, submission isn't rocket science The family is an aeroplane, the husband is the pILOT and the wife is the co-pilot (and she is not struggling to become the pilot). To be honest this is the best way I can explain this to you.

Influential101:
Please think through again.. Anyone with excess luggage can pay for extra luggage or cargo his/her stuffs...it's not so hard..

If it wasn't going to be just anybody, then there wouldn't have been reason for the announcement on nairaland..

I understand you're trying to help but please be careful.. I wish you the best..

AZeD1:

I believe marriage is a partnership. An equal one at that with both partners submitting to each other.

That means they both have an equal say in how things should work and when there are differing opinions one would be chosen based on a set of predefined parameters.

There's a saying "you do not hire smart people and tell them what to do" and I'll say do not marry a smart wife and start bossing her around.

Guitarlife:

Are you sure you are not my former girlfriend, the bolded was exactly what she said, I ran for my life na Margaret thatcher be that.

Goodluck with what you think , mind I tell you that this is exactly the formula the west and north america practices, how come their rate of divorce is the highest in the world ?

Have you ever been in a car where all the passengers can drive ? So how many of you drove the car ? Why did all of you not hold the steering simply because you all can drive ?

A vehicle with two people driving it will crash, there has to be an atmosphere of love and submission, the man knows to love his wife and protect her with his life the wife knows to support and submit, I repeat submitting is not a slave.

Have you thought that the man can ask the woman to take the key and drive ? But one person has to lead, even a pack of wolves is not led by 2 it never works.

AZeD1:

The reason the West seems to have a higher rate of divorce is because they are not hypocritical like Africans. People who say things like this are the ones that think Africans and Africa are morally superior to the rest of the world yet Africa is the most backward

As for the car questions, you need to watch more car rallies and see what happens to drivers who don't listen to the co-driver.

PS: Why are you moving to a society that thinks differently from you? If what they believe in the West is wrong, you would be staying back in Nigeria.

Guitarlife:

The bolded means alot to me, you agree we cannot have two drivers right ? We are making progress gradually .
Now to the question of why the west has a higher divorce rate, it sounds somewhat counter-intuitive , are you saying that Westerners having higher divorce rate is a testament of their "non-hypocriticalness" ?

There are very few women who do not have a problem with submitting to their spouses, that is the kind of woman that I want, its my desire.
You are a guy so you can go around looking for a woman who questions your authority . Goodluck with finding one and goodluck to me too.

Guitarlife:

Maternal is this what you are passing through, if this is a narration of what you are passing through I am deeply sorry but this is not what I mean by submission, I am not an animal.

Submission simply means that the woman acknowledges that the man is the head of the home, while the man also has a duty to love his wife, it remains a delicate concept, a mystery , an art, a beauty that is almost lost in todays chaotic and material driven life.

No doubt majority of families are barely pulling through and most are just wearing a shallow and fake smile to mask the inadequacies but usurping the natural order will not solve the problem.

If a man/ woman marries the right partner taking up their roles in marriage will not be a problem, however, things are a lot more easier when each partner does understand their God given roles in marriage. Now if you are not a practising christian or have your spirituality at a low level this will not make much sense, I know.
Its even worse if all you have always seen are dysfunctional marriages with the men beasts and according to you maternal the women angels/saints.

Guitarlife:

I had typed almost half a page of response and I just wiped it off now, why did you ask this question ?

I do not pray to be in such a position and I pray for the grace to remain faithful to my future spouse so I will not answer this question but believe me not all married men cheat.

I am not saying women must stay in abusive marriages there some lines that should not be crossed, physical violence and infidelity are a no no.
All marriages face challenges but for me this two are abomination that should not even happen.

maternal:



3. LOL stand up to their man ? So a woman shouldn't have a voice or opinion ? So she should cook your food, have your child, do as you say, then open her legs at night for you. Then the cycle begins the follow day. The sec she says she doesn't want to do X, then she's "standing up to her man". I need you to elaborate what you mean by that. And yes most women stand up to their man in the west and form equality. She'd be stupid not too. Many woman have died for such a right.

4. YES. Any man who feels a woman loves to be treated unfairly is an idiot. Give a woman economic power and you'll see how she really feels about you. You think woman abroad are just more stronger than the woman in naija ? The woman abroad have a system that'll help them.

5. LOL Abeg go and sit down. Remain faithful to one partner ? A naija man ? Marriage for you is the ability to f^ck as many woman as you like. While your wife remains at home, submissive, while doing everything you say like a house girl. Who do you think you're fooling here ? Pop out of marriage at the slightest hint of unhappiness ? Bros, if your wife cheated on you with another man, would you stay and work it out ? Be honest with your answer Mr Saint.

Why would any man want a woman to remain in a marriage she's not happy in ? Seriously. Is it insecurity ? I'm confused.

ceemac:


I am kinda most interested in the bolded:

3. So she shouldn't cook? Maybe the man does not have to 'fend' as a duty for the family also. Did you say have YOUR child? I don't know when children became only the property of the man? You also mentioned open her legs at night? Is it only the man that enjoys the act? Can't you see from the previous post where a woman willingly forfeited 300k in Buhari's regime becos of 'soco'. If the man doesn't demand, the same woman will start raising suspicion that he is seeing someone outside..

4. Don't you think there is a reason the creator created a man first? Or why all the Supernatural beings' messengers like Jesus, Mohammed, Budha etc. pointed to are depicted as men and not women. For the records, I am not and will never be a sexist, there will always be a space for the sun and moon in the universe.

5.Don't be stereotypical about Naija men, the country already has a bad image enough to further single out some set of people for castigation. Go and see how other nationalities are rushing the same 'Nigerian men' . A prophet really does not have regard in his own house.

jelmusboy:
When you are all done with marriage 102, let's continue with immigration 202.

maternal:


You think you're smart, but you really aren't. Stop personalizing this. I've never experience these things personally, but I have a lot of friends who have been in different types of marriages. So please answer these questions and stop running your mouth all over the place.

1. Give me a clear example how the man is the head of the household ?

2. What is the natural order ? Again I want a clear example.

3. What exactly is the man's and woman's God given roles ? Other than child birth. Again I need clear examples.

4. What exactly is spirituality at a low level? Again, I need a clear example. Don't dance around these questions.

salford:
The arguments above further proves that the CBC was right after-all about the most common reason for divorce among immigrants. No matter how we twist it, some immigrant husbands especially from Africa, Asia and the Middle East would never accept a split of traditional responsibilities till strains start appearing in some marriages. The culture from back home is really strong.

Mum has now realised that dad can't just be sat in the living room with remote control on one hand and legs on the table while she does all the work at home.

I believe everyone has one or two things to learn from the arguments. Couples should endeavour to support themselves in Canada even if it requires splitting tasks into 50/50. Lets forget about pride, tradition or culture. it's all about working together to achieve success and a happy home.

vcole:
@guitarlife your ex dodged a bullet and I would pop a bottle of champagne on her behalf. There is no logical reasoning to your argument and your mindset is simply put a result of social conditioning. I wouldn’t even bother to go into a q&a with you. @maternal @azed1 have already said enough. Good luck on your search for a neck to support your head aka submissive wife, after all it is your life. However maybe you should consider relocating back to naija after getting your Canadian citizenship sha cos this western life with high divorce rates and comparatively shorter gender gaps that is over a century ahead in development than your lower divorce rates third world religious country of origin may not be the best society to nurture Mrs guitar life, your marriage may just end up as a statistic you know. Mrs will not remain blind and deaf or dumb forever she will realize soon enough that she doesn’t have to take BS.
@ceemac I read your first line and just didn’t have eye power to commit towards reading more. Just a little education cooking is for cooks. It is not a gender ascribed role and majority of the best cooks in the world are male, so go figure.
In the end, whether a head is hiding under the cloak of a religious or cultural practice that confers unmerited power upon said head or not, the advocates of a headship and 1 captainship or 1 drivership are all doing so for their own self interest to remain in the seat of power because it simply feels good and comes with perks. Whether you admit it or not, that is the truth.
Abeg my keyboard self don tire. You can reply oh or even throw insults sef but I won’t even care. #arguewithyourpastororimamorguruorwhoever

maternal:


You typed almost half a page of bullsh!t only to know i'd call you out, and you couldn't take yourself seriously. Nobody prays to be in X situation but they are. Answer the question ! The reason you can't/won't answer the question is because you're full of crap. If your wife cheated on you with another man you'd leave in less than 24 hours. Call your people from in-laws to friends in the village saying how she's an ashewo. Yet if it was you, you'd want to be forgiven and talk about all the God nonsense, head of the household, fight for the marriage, blah..blah.. and want your wife to stay and tolerate your sin/infidelity. You know nothing about Christianity or God. All you know how to do is manipulate God's words and the bible to benefit your best interests.

salford:
Sometimes the women are not even aware that they have stopped being submissive. Alot of women from Nigeria are used to having househelp and that neice or nephew from village doing all the running around. By the time they get here, normal everyday task could become overwhelming, then women request that their husband help them with house chores...na there the wahala dey start.

salford:
The arguments above further proves that the CBC was right after-all about the most common reason for divorce among immigrants. No matter how we twist it, some immigrant husbands especially from Africa, Asia and the Middle East would never accept a split of traditional responsibilities till strains start appearing in some marriages. The culture from back home is really strong.

Mum has now realised that dad can't just be sat in the living room with remote control on one hand and legs on the table while she does all the work at home.

I believe everyone has one or two things to learn from the arguments. Couples should endeavour to support themselves in Canada even if it requires splitting tasks into 50/50. Lets forget about pride, tradition or culture. it's all about working together to achieve success and a happy home.