Unlimited22:

Is that why Arsenal is below Chelsea on the table?

no that is why they had just a shot on target against the worst defence in top6
Common sense bro



Who's that fine girl

Who saw the WWE between mitrovic and Sanchez
That Serbian mafia will kill sanchez

nateevs:


How can you say "no matter the pressure"? There is just no evidence on earth to back this up and you know it.

Come on bro, i used hardly in my post, nobody is perfect.

This your statement is totally incorrect, as you cant compare Essien's toughness on the ball to Jorginho's. As many people criticised Mikel, he protected balls under pressure better than Romeu. Players have strengths and weaknesses.

After we lost to barca in 2009, Essien said he never played against a player that guarded the balls all night like Iniesta. I was telling you it's harder to dispossess some players, despite serious pressing, such that you would have to foul them. I don't need any document to back it, we have eyes. If i bring gifs now, you would repeat same line you dropped when i backed my opinion of Morata as King of misses.

nateevs:


How can you say "no matter the pressure"? There is just no evidence on earth to back this up and you know it. What you are seeing is a manifestation of many opponent's perception of the futility of such of move.

The truth is Iniesta and Modric play for teams where targeting a player makes defending as a unit potentially dangerous, because there is always another player just as effective. Therefore the whole plan is non-starter. So because you hardly see this done, you assume Modric "no matter the pressure" will not be marked out of a game. No conclusion can be more wrong.

If you put Modric as regista in Sarri's system and then Kante and Barkley alongside him, he becomes infinitely easier to mark out. And this is exactly why it is easier to mark out Jorginho.

Conversely, if Jorginho played in the same role alongside Verrati and Modric in midfield, and Hazard, Salah and Aguero in attack, who becomes the target? Opposition teams will have to approach defending from a different angle, focus less on man-marking an individual and suddenly Jorginho becomes infinitely more effective.

Jorginho is not an average player by any stretch of the imagination. This dude averages 90 passes per game consistently when not man-marked. Easily the player with the most passes in the league (over 150 more than Laporte in second place) and he's not even in the top 40 for most minutes played. Which means his passes per minute is infinitely off the charts. You don't do that by being average. You don't do that by being lazy either. Jorginho covers an average 12km per 90mins, putting him easily in the top 3 for distance covered in the PL. More than Kante who is known to cover the world (correct as at the last time I followed the stats).


Chelsea's problems are not Jorginho's fault. It is not his fault either that he gets targeted easily. He gets easily targeted primarily because apart from Hazard, the whole Chelsea 11 are not dangerous with the ball. You can blame Sarri's system or blame something else, but less of this Jorginho thing abeg. It's not like he's Bakayoko who loses the ball before it reaches him.


This is why I don't get the overall premise of this argument.

I'm not here to argue on Jorginho being an average player or not. It was even the guy i was arguing with, that opined that he was average.

In case you dont know what brought the arguement- Busquets in epl would be exposed as a defensive weakling. As a dm, your primary responsibility, if you are not playing for barca, is to protect your defence. That was where i was coming from, and i only used Jorginho as an example of how in epl, your anchor man should be physical on the ball. So, no need for all these long notes you typed.

BlueAngel444:


so coach airmark where will ginho play

he should swap with kante right . u do know kante functions best as a box to box DM (which is still kinda of his role now)

when Conte used Fabregas, Kante, Bakayoko. was Fabregas not in that same Ginho's role?

I'm not a coach bro.

Must your Ginho play, if he's no more bringing anything to the table? Ferdinand was not totally wrong:

“Jorginho’s someone who sets the tempo of a game. You get the ball into him through the middle third of the pitch, he’s very good.

“[But] How many assists has he got this season? Around 2,000 passes, no assists.

“He’s not a great defender. Once a game gets like this against the big teams, he gets overrun in midfield.

“He can’t run. So he doesn’t give you anything defensively, and he doesn’t give you anything up the other end of the pitch.”






This is the same reason i was asking for Busquets, to bring his lazy legs to epl, where every week he will be running 10,000km per match.

Bundesliga weakling with a goal and assist today

airmark:


I'm not a coach bro.

Must your Ginho play, if he's no more bringing anything to the table? Ferdinand was not totally wrong:

“Jorginho’s someone who sets the tempo of a game. You get the ball into him through the middle third of the pitch, he’s very good.

“[But] How many assists has he got this season? Around 2,000 passes, no assists.

“He’s not a great defender. Once a game gets like this against the big teams, he gets overrun in midfield.

“He can’t run. So he doesn’t give you anything defensively, and he doesn’t give you anything up the other end of the pitch.”






This is the same reason i was asking for Busquets, to bring his lazy legs to epl, where every week he will be running 10,000km per match.

I was just laughing earlier today reading someone quoting hundred of passes jorginho has strung up this season and the number of kilometers he has covered to the extent of ranking him sef

I was expecting he would've amassed tons of assist, only for me to see 0 assist and 1 goal in as many as 22 epl matches. Aswear Nothing that guy fit do pass Fabregas.

Taguchi:


bar Messi, Busquets is by far the most important Barca player. Barca midfield looses stability without Busquets and gets overun easily. coaches know this that is why Busquets is man marked in some of the matches. the guy is the most intelligent DM in football . there is a reason Busquets at 20 displaced both Mascherano and Yaya Toure players who are epl legends in their own right. Busquets has held his own against strong and aggressive teams both in Spain and across Europe but Chelsea fans think he is too weak for EPL.

Exactly.Roma vs Barcelona is a testament to this.As soon as busquest was substituted we all saw how the game swung in favor of roma and they began to be more dangerous both in the midfield and attack.

raumdeuter:
Bundesliga weakling with a goal and assist today

At his age a certain shakushaku dancer was the best player in the league.

Micheal carrick survived the epl playing as a dmf even with his physical fragilities but busquest won’t survive the same epl to the reason best known to them.


Laughable.

popizaino:
Micheal carrick survived the epl playing as a dmf even with his physical fragilities but busquest won’t survive the same epl to the reason best known to them.


Laughable.

Carrick wasn't as slow as Busquets.

nateevs:


How can you say "no matter the pressure"? There is just no evidence on earth to back this up and you know it. What you are seeing is a manifestation of many opponent's perception of the futility of such of move.

The truth is Iniesta and Modric play for teams where targeting a player makes defending as a unit potentially dangerous, because there is always another player just as effective. Therefore the whole plan is non-starter. So because you hardly see this done, you assume Modric "no matter the pressure" will not be marked out of a game. No conclusion can be more wrong.

If you put Modric as regista in Sarri's system and then Kante and Barkley alongside him, he becomes infinitely easier to mark out. And this is exactly why it is easier to mark out Jorginho.

Conversely, if Jorginho played in the same role alongside Verrati and Modric in midfield, and Hazard, Salah and Aguero in attack, who becomes the target? Opposition teams will have to approach defending from a different angle, focus less on man-marking an individual and suddenly Jorginho becomes infinitely more effective.

Jorginho is not an average player by any stretch of the imagination. This dude averages 90 passes per game consistently when not man-marked. Easily the player with the most passes in the league (over 150 more than Laporte in second place) and he's not even in the top 40 for most minutes played. Which means his passes per minute is infinitely off the charts. You don't do that by being average. You don't do that by being lazy either. Jorginho covers an average 12km per 90mins, putting him easily in the top 3 for distance covered in the PL. More than Kante who is known to cover the world (correct as at the last time I followed the stats).


Chelsea's problems are not Jorginho's fault. It is not his fault either that he gets targeted easily. He gets easily targeted primarily because apart from Hazard, the whole Chelsea 11 are not dangerous with the ball. You can blame Sarri's system or blame something else, but less of this Jorginho thing abeg. It's not like he's Bakayoko who loses the ball before it reaches him.


This is why I don't get the overall premise of this argument.

Bro,Stop trying to give excuses for the guy.Any decent CM can be play 200 passes and cover a lot of grounds.Doesn't take anything out of this world to complete 100 passes in a game especially if you play against teams that are afraid to press.Any team that implements the Regista role must utilise Wingers as the functional role of one is to pick out those Wingers who usually open up when he gets the ball by playing long diagonal passes to them. This is what Chelsea have in Hazard,Pedro and Willian.


Also know that Registas can be considered as "False DMS".So if hes been marked out by the opposition which is normal for any Regista,It's his job to adjust to the tempo and tactics of his opponets by adjusting his position on the pitch to create those required apace for himself.Scholes did this a lot.Any game Scholes was heavily marked,he created those extra spaces by being a deep lying midfielder in order to create freedom for himself.He didn't just stay in one place and wished that his opponets didn't mark him so he can play.So for Jorginho It's either he builds up play by dropping very deep by being the extra man in defense,in this case the player man marking him is either forced to follow him or drop back,which then gives him the freedom to fully express himself or a shield in person like Kante us provided to crowd out the midfield and disrupt the opponets plan

Vision and ability to position is a must have for a Regista which Jorginho heavily lacks.Even if he is giving that freedom as what was seen with Chelsea's earlier season games,he just transitions play from defense to attack nothing more.Hes the focal point of the whole team so it's only natural teams will want to take him out.But that is not an excuse as you cannot compare a Regista in Pirlo to this guy.Check out the difference between the two.And this is not because of any Sarri tactics as I have watched this guys numerous games for Italy and he simply is shiit.Sarri is very useless and will soon be sacked but this guy just can't carry the responsibility his role demands

Jorginho, before they got his number, wasn't bad.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY2_mZIvc-I



This is why i want Busquets to get his lazy legs to epl, if he won't be worse.

popizaino:
Micheal carrick survived the epl playing as a dmf even with his physical fragilities but busquest won’t survive the same epl to the reason best known to them.


Laughable.

Busquets will be brought down to Carrick level from Makelele level if he comes to EPL.

airmark:


Carrick wasn't as slow as Busquets.

Been slow is a good attribute of a regista hence Andrea pirlo who is arguable the best among the trio is slower than them all.

Adiwana:



Bro,Stop trying to give excuses for the guy.Any decent CM can be play 200 passes and cover a lot of grounds.Doesn't take anything out of this world to complete 100 passes in a game especially if you play against teams that are afraid to press.Any team that implements the Regista role must utilise Wingers as the functional role of one is to pick out those Wingers who usually open up when he gets the ball by playing long diagonal passes to them. This is what Chelsea have in Hazard,Pedro and Willian.


Also know that Registas can be considered as "False DMS".So if hes been marked out by the opposition which is normal for any Regista,It's his job to adjust to the tempo and tactics of his opponets by adjusting his position on the pitch to create those required apace for himself.Scholes did this a lot.Any game Scholes was heavily marked,he created those extra spaces by being a deep lying midfielder in order to create freedom for himself.He didn't just stay in one place and wished that his opponets didn't mark him so he can play.So for Jorginho It's either he builds up play by dropping very deep by being the extra man in defense,in this case the player man marking him is either forced to follow him or drop back,which then gives him the freedom to fully express himself or a shield in person like Kante us provided to crowd out the midfield and disrupt the opponets plan

Vision and ability to position is a must have for a Regista which Jorginho heavily lacks.Even if he is giving that freedom as what was seen with Chelsea's earlier season games,he just transitions play from defense to attack nothing more.Hes the focal point of the whole team so it's only natural teams will want to take him out.But that is not an excuse as you cannot compare a Regista in Pirlo to this guy.Check out the difference between the two.And this is not because of any Sarri tactics as I have watched this guys numerous games for PItaly and he simply is shiit.Sarri is very useless and will soon be sacked but this guy just can't carry the responsibility his role demands

One million likes already.
You’re myself that can write very well.

If Chelsea must play Kante and Hazard in their best positions then we should be playing 4-4-2 abi with Kante in a two man midfield, Hazard can play supporting striker with free role since he won't be a good defensive cover for Alonso.

Adiwana:



Bro,Stop trying to give excuses for the guy.Any decent CM can be play 200 passes and cover a lot of grounds.Doesn't take anything out of this world to complete 100 passes in a game especially if you play against teams that are afraid to press.Any team that implements the Regista role must utilise Wingers as the functional role of one is to pick out those Wingers who usually open up when he gets the ball by playing long diagonal passes to them. This is what Chelsea have in Hazard,Pedro and Willian.


Also know that Registas can be considered as "False DMS".So if hes been marked out by the opposition which is normal for any Regista,It's his job to adjust to the tempo and tactics of his opponets by adjusting his position on the pitch to create those required apace for himself.Scholes did this a lot.Any game Scholes was heavily marked,he created those extra spaces by being a deep lying midfielder in order to create freedom for himself.He didn't just stay in one place and wished that his opponets didn't mark him so he can play.So for Jorginho It's either he builds up play by dropping very deep by being the extra man in defense,in this case the player man marking him is either forced to follow him or drop back,which then gives him the freedom to fully express himself or a shield in person like Kante us provided to crowd out the midfield and disrupt the opponets plan

Vision and ability to position is a must have for a Regista which Jorginho heavily lacks.Even if he is giving that freedom as what was seen with Chelsea's earlier season games,he just transitions play from defense to attack nothing more.Hes the focal point of the whole team so it's only natural teams will want to take him out.But that is not an excuse as you cannot compare a Regista in Pirlo to this guy.Check out the difference between the two.And this is not because of any Sarri tactics as I have watched this guys numerous games for Italy and he simply is shiit.Sarri is very useless and will soon be sacked but this guy just can't carry the responsibility his role demands

why didn't u say Ginho can not play regista since. y are u saying it now

Dele Alli injured in Fulham game.


I hope we won't have to use the laptop after the match....again.

Adiwana:



Bro,Stop trying to give excuses for the guy.Any decent CM can be play 200 passes and cover a lot of grounds.Doesn't take anything out of this world to complete 100 passes in a game especially if you play against teams that are afraid to press.Any team that implements the Regista role must utilise Wingers as the functional role of one is to pick out those Wingers who usually open up when he gets the ball by playing long diagonal passes to them. This is what Chelsea have in Hazard,Pedro and Willian.


Also know that Registas can be considered as "False DMS".So if hes been marked out by the opposition which is normal for any Regista,It's his job to adjust to the tempo and tactics of his opponets by adjusting his position on the pitch to create those required apace for himself.Scholes did this a lot.Any game Scholes was heavily marked,he created those extra spaces by being a deep lying midfielder in order to create freedom for himself.He didn't just stay in one place and wished that his opponets didn't mark him so he can play.So for Jorginho It's either he builds up play by dropping very deep by being the extra man in defense,in this case the player man marking him is either forced to follow him or drop back,which then gives him the freedom to fully express himself or a shield in person like Kante us provided to crowd out the midfield and disrupt the opponets plan

Vision and ability to position is a must have for a Regista which Jorginho heavily lacks.Even if he is giving that freedom as what was seen with Chelsea's earlier season games,he just transitions play from defense to attack nothing more.Hes the focal point of the whole team so it's only natural teams will want to take him out.But that is not an excuse as you cannot compare a Regista in Pirlo to this guy.Check out the difference between the two.And this is not because of any Sarri tactics as I have watched this guys numerous games for Italy and he simply is shiit.Sarri is very useless and will soon be sacked but this guy just can't carry the responsibility his role demands

Whatever you do, do not perpetuate falsehood to further a point. The stats are completely contrary to the points you have made.

You claim any decent CM can make 100 passes but he makes more passes than the best CMs in the league. How does he do it? Are they playing different teams who are not afraid to press? Is this a miracle or are all the CMs in the league that 5hit ?.... If we believe he is that rubbish. Are the numbers falsely added to his stats?

You claim instead of him standing in one place, he should be like Paul Scholes creating spaces for his team mates, yet he is averaging 12km a game and top 3 in the league with distance covered? Where is he getting this distance from if he is standing in one place? How do you think he averages that much distance? Because he is constantly opening up channels of passes for his team mates and never standing one place.



The fundamental difference between Pirlo and Jorginho is their mandate within the specified tactical system. Pirlo was mandated to find any player, so a long ball option was open to his role. Jorginho plays strictly to his mandate at Chelsea, short passes within the channels and he does so effectively. Because he is not doing it the way you are used to, does not mean he is doing nothing at all.

Why is David Luiz using the long balls and Jorginho isn't? Because each man is playing to their mandate within the tactical system. It's not because Jorginho sees a players and lacks the ability to make a long pass.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbyPhHKnebk

Seek the evidence if you don't have it.

If he is not using long balls, it is because his tactical mandate suggests that he doesn't. That's why I said blame Sarri or whatever you want. But pleaseeeee..... Jorginho passes. That's what he does. Stop claiming he cannot make long passes, doesn't have vision or doesn't find players in spaces. It is just not true.

PlainJAY:
Dele Alli injured in Fulham game.


I hope we won't have to use the laptop after the match....again.

No Alli, no Kane, no Son.
If we don't beat Spurs I won't watch Chelsea live again till next season.

Kepa

Azpi Rudi Luiz Emerson

Kante
Jorginho Barkley
Hazard

Giroud Higuain

4-4-2 Diamond no go bad.
Pedro can replace Giroud once in a while.

I think playing double strikers Giroud and Higuain would be effective

Unlimited22:

No Alli, no Kane, no Son.
If we don't beat Spurs I won't watch Chelsea live again till next season.

What if Hazard, Kante and Luiz get injured before the matchday?

Unlimited22:

No Alli, no Kane, no Son.
If we don't beat Spurs I won't watch Chelsea live again till next season.

If that Sarri don't tweak his tactics, Sours would beat us at the bridge cleanly

Unlimited22:

No Alli, no Kane, no Son.
If we don't beat Spurs I won't watch Chelsea live again till next season.

We are playing against a toothless team.

No excuse for sarri this time.

popizaino:



Been slow is a good attribute of a regista hence Andrea pirlo who is arguable the best among the trio is slower than them all.

Is Busquets a regista? I just saw him minutes ago trying to run to cover for his left back. Martin Braithwaite just pounced on the opportunity. He can't run fast to save his life. This is who someone said would cover well for Alonso if he is at Chelsea.

TalabiAudu:
Kepa

Azpi Rudi Luiz Emerson

Kante
Jorginho Barkley
Hazard

Giroud Higuain

4-4-2 Diamond no go bad.
Pedro can replace Giroud once in a while.

I think playing double strikers Giroud and Higuain would be effective

....
Hahahahaha, if dem give you Chelsea to manage na league one you go carry the team enter higuain and Giroud starting together, hahahahah

nateevs:



Whatever you do, do not perpetuate falsehood to further a point. The stats are completely contrary to the points you have made.

You claim any decent CM can make 100 passes but he make more passes than any CM in the league. How does he do it? Is this a miracle or are all the CMs in the league that 5hit ?.... If we believe he is that rubbish. Are the numbers falsely added to his stats?

You claim instead of him standing in one place, he should be like Paul Scholes creating spaces for his team mates, yet he is averaging 12km a game and top 3 in the league with distance covered? Where is he getting this distance from if he is standing in one place? How do you think he averages that much distance? Because he is constantly opening up channels of passes for his team mates and never standing one place.



The fundamental difference between Pirlo and Jorginho is their mandate within the specified tactical system. Pirlo was mandated to find any player, so a long ball option was open to his role. Jorginho plays strictly to his mandate at Chelsea, short passes within the channels and he does so effectively. Because he is not doing it the way you are used to, does not mean he is doing nothing at all.

Why is David Luiz using the long balls and Jorginho isn't? Because each man is playing to their mandate within the tactical system. It's not because Jorginho sees a players and lacks the ability to make a long pass.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbyPhHKnebk

Seek the evidence if you don't have it.

If he is not using long balls, it is because his tactical mandate suggests that he doesn't. That's why I said blame Sarri or whatever you want. But pleaseeeee..... Jorginho passes. That's what he does. Stop claiming he cannot make long passes, doesn't have vision or doesn't find players in spaces. It is just not true.

Passing is useless if it's not serving it's sole purpose which is to create opportunities for attackers to score.So if a Regista is averaging 90 passes/game with the game going to goalless draw,then he's not being effective with the ball.Barca at their very best were averaging 500 passes per game and we're demolishing teams.If you play Mikel as a Regista,he will do Jorginho's numbers comfortably well.Passing,receiving the ball and playing it back to defenders and goal keeper will give you those numbers.Makelele was sold because the then RM president wanted him to distribute the ball to attackers and not packing up statistics by playing the ball back

Again,how is distant covered the same as creating space for one self.Lmao.A regista by nature doesn't need to have speed or cover so many distances to be effective.Pirlo,Scholes are perfect Registas that nobody knows them for their speed or distance covered.That is why Pirlo had players like Seedorf at Milan and Vidal at Juventus.The only concern of a regista is to drop deep to create space for people like Kante,Seedorf etc who have high work rates to cover those distances for them.And if hes opening up those spaces as he should,then nobody will mark him out in games because it's either a striker marks him thereby leaving his sole duty which is to score or a CM or AM will do the job which then leaves that extra space in the midfield for others to exploit.Any Good Regista that knows what he's doing has no business being out marked in a game.That is why you hardly heared that Pirlo had a bad game.Because no matter how bad a game was for him,he did his job unless he was totally outclassed which was very rare

On this issue,I have always said Sarri is dogshit.Because he's playing a Regista in a system that utilises wingers and plays short possession football.That can only work if hes playing a diamond formation.Which then again makes all those 200 passes or whatever to be useless because it's not carving out anything for strikers to feed on.i have always blamed Sarri for that.But if Jorginho had vision,he will be playing key passes and carving out chances even in that short possession kind of football because players like Hazard drift into the midfield and not drift wide when trying to create spaces to score.Pirlo for example wasn't just a master at long balls.He was pretty effective at short balls and had great vision in short key passes which Jorginho lacks.Am not judging because of Chelsa.I have watched the guy play with Italy who rely on long balls and I can tell you he's very useless.

airmark:


What if Hazard, Kante and Luiz get injured before the matchday?

Go sell that burnt dodo elsewhere. Luiz name does not belong with our key players.

Ibime:


Go sell that burnt dodo elsewhere. Luiz name does not belong with our key players.

Rudiger then. At least he can also play those passes that Luiz has been feeding our attackers recently, only that most of his, went to the stands.

dhebo:
....
Hahahahaha, if dem give you Chelsea to manage na league one you go carry the team enter higuain and Giroud starting together, hahahahah

Hazard, Pedro and Willian that has been starting, have there been any difference?
.How many goals have we scored as a team in the last 3 months?

We need new things jare

airmark:


Carrick wasn't as slow as Busquets.

Carrick was as slow as Busquets, only that the English man's passing was head & shoulders over Busquet's

Ibime:


Busquets will be brought down to Carrick level from Makelele level if he comes to EPL.

Busquets has played against the very best from EPL and he has always come out unscathed. There was one time he met Chelsea's new Makelele, and he destroyed him.

Please give us another story.