₦airaland Forum

true2god:
Cut the crap bro! Is the prophet not the same person that slept with a 9 year old girl (when he was 54) and ask him sahabas not to visit his house when food is still on fire and to leave as soon as they finish their food (in his house). And equally to talk to his wives only behind a closed curtain? 33:53 O Ye who believe! Enter not the dwellings of the Prophet for a meal without waiting for the proper time, unless permission be granted you. But if ye are ...

sureheaven:
There's no similarity in what you wrote and the instruction of the devilish book inspired by devil and written by that pedophile Muhammed.

EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.
EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.
EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side,and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.
EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.
LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."
LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 “If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery"
LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39 )
NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.
NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.
NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.
NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households(including wives and children) because the men
had been rebellious.
NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.
NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

ambitiouschap:
salam alaiekun. pls I want to ask can a Muslim vote, cos where I observe ishai last night the young imam was telling us not to vote cos it is against Islam view.
cc :lukgaf

There are many scholarly positions on the issue boss (some contemporary scholars say we can't because of the system of government we are using in Nigeria (non-shariah) while some choose we can, if there are no means (both bring evidences)) and thus its explanation may not be suitable here Sir.

2 abrahimian religions were in existance for hundreds of years before the advent of islam. Jesus came and went for over 400 years before the birth of mohammed. Judaism and the Gospel of Christ has spread accross the mediterinians and over the enlightened world before Mohammed came along. Mohammedvwas a trader and his Uncle a merchant, he travelled accross the middle East thats how he heard about the Gospel and The Jewish faith., Every story and account of the prophests and events in the Jewish Thorah and Bible were all replicated in the Koran, and then spiced up woth Sugar, oinions and maggi. These two teaching were there before he was even born, so stop decieving yourselves, Islam is the one copying christians and other religion and not they other way around.

[b]Are you saying that the God of Christianity does not have the right to punish evil doers in any manner that he deems fit? Because everything you have produced here is God punishing people for committing specific sins.

Unfortunately, no matter how hard you try, you can never compare the God of Christianity with the god of islam who was always justifying EVERYTHING that his "prophet" did.

A "prophet" goes to visit his adopted son, finds his daughter in law naked and begins to lust after her. His "god" then goes ahead to sanction the dissolution of the marriage between prophet's son and daughter in law in favour of the prophet.

This same 53 year old prophet begins fantasizing about a 6 year old girl, then later marries that girl and "consumates" the marriage when she is 9 years old? What does the "prophet's" god do? He justifies it!

The god of this prophet says that his religion permits only 4 wives, but this prophet wants more wives, so his god gives him a special dispensation to marry more than 4 wives!

This "prophet" begins sleeping with one of the servants of his wife. The wife finds out and is furious. The "prophet" swears that he will never touch the servant again. Very conveniently, his "god" sends down a revelation telling him not to swear such an oath again and telling him that he is free to break such oaths!

[img]http://4.bp..com/-5RA2o8V7kQk/U3Kn6TWgt2I/AAAAAAAADfI/pNi1R1vWxvU/s400/Nasai1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://1.bp..com/-iXRA3xk1ccE/U3Kn6WqTFVI/AAAAAAAADfM/nmLzTBA0tRY/s400/Nasai2.jpg[/img]

We all know what the truth is concerning your religion. Nairaland is no hiding place for Islam.
[/b]

[img]http://3.bp..com/-nAGPAKAgiYY/VXDVllN2aqI/AAAAAAAAFZg/CUcOu4ARjvA/s1600/Aisha%2BMeme.jpg[/img]

ollah2:
EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.
EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.
EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side,and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.
EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.
LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."
LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 “If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery"
LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39 )
NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.
NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.
NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.
NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households(including wives and children) because the men
had been rebellious.
NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.
NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

TheLogicalMind:
[b]Are you saying that the God of Christianity does not have the right to punish evil doers in any manner that he deems fit? Because everything you have produced here is God punishing people for committing specific sins.

Unfortunately, no matter how hard you try, you can never compare the God of Christianity with the god of islam who was always justifying EVERYTHING that his "prophet" did.

A "prophet" goes to visit his adopted son, finds his daughter in law naked and begins to lust after her. His "god" then goes ahead to sanction the dissolution of the marriage between prophet's son and daughter in law in favour of the prophet.

This same 53 year old prophet begins fantasizing about a 6 year old girl, then later marries that girl and "consumates" the marriage when she is 9 years old? What does the "prophet's" god do? He justifies it!

The god of this prophet says that his religion permits only 4 wives, but this prophet wants more wives, so his god gives him a special dispensation to marry more than 4 wives!

This "prophet" begins sleeping with one of the servants of his wife. The wife finds out and is furious. The "prophet" swears that he will never touch the servant again. Very conveniently, his "god" sends down a revelation telling him not to swear such an oath again and telling him that he is free to break such oaths!

[img]http://4.bp..com/-5RA2o8V7kQk/U3Kn6TWgt2I/AAAAAAAADfI/pNi1R1vWxvU/s400/Nasai1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://1.bp..com/-iXRA3xk1ccE/U3Kn6WqTFVI/AAAAAAAADfM/nmLzTBA0tRY/s400/Nasai2.jpg[/img]

We all know what the truth is concerning your religion. Nairaland is no hiding place for Islam.
[/b]

[img]http://3.bp..com/-nAGPAKAgiYY/VXDVllN2aqI/AAAAAAAAFZg/CUcOu4ARjvA/s1600/Aisha%2BMeme.jpg[/img]

NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.
NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ...."
NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."
NU 25:8 "He went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of israel, and the woman through her belly."
NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the
Lord.
NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.
NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the
Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One
can only speculate.)
NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.
DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.
DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.
DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and show "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.
DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for
the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

god of christianity is a devilish and false god

Ganduri:
2 abrahimian religions were in existance for hundreds of years before the advent of islam. Jesus came and went for over 400 years before the birth of mohammed. Judaism and the Gospel of Christ has spread accross the mediterinians and over the enlightened world before Mohammed came along. Mohammedvwas a trader and his Uncle a merchant, he travelled accross the middle East thats how he heard about the Gospel and The Jewish faith., Every story and account of the prophests and events in the Jewish Thorah and Bible were all replicated in the Koran, and then spiced up woth Sugar, oinions and maggi. These two teaching were there before he was even born, so stop decieving yourselves, Islam is the one copying christians and other religion and not they other way around.

Before Abrahamic religions birthed, Krishna and Buddha of India, Salivahana of Bermuda, Osiris and horus of Egypt, Odin of the Scandinavians, Adonis, son of the virgin lo of Greece etc were thousands of years before these three religions.

Horus, Krishna, Orisis, Mithra, Budda are all virgin Gods

Horus was the "only begotten son" of a god called Osiris, had a mother called Meri. His coming was announced to his mother by an angel. Horus was visited at birth by “three solar deities” and Jesus was visited by “three wise men”. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
Both were baptized at age 30. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
Both Anup and John were later beheaded. Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation. Both have 12 disciples.
Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
Horus “stilled the sea by his power.” Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, “Peace, be still.”
Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, “house of Anu”).
Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount. Both were crucified.


Everything was plagiarized from ancient Egypt. Before you castigate another ensure you look in the mirror and learn that what you hold precious was entirely copied

ambitiouschap:
salam alaiekun. pls I want to ask can a Muslim vote, cos where I observe ishai last night the young imam was telling us not to vote cos it is against Islam view.
cc :lukgaf

Salam Alaykum bro, they will tell u voting is against islamic tenets. But i tell u bro there is no single way of electing a leader in Islam. The way the first Khalifa was chosen from the way the second was appointed. Just imagine we Muslims not voting in general, how can we protect our own

true2god:
Cut the crap bro! Is the prophet not the same person that slept with a 9 year old girl (when he was 54) and ask him sahabas not to visit his house when food is still on fire and to leave as soon as they finish their food (in his house). And equally to talk to his wives only behind a closed curtain? 33:53 O Ye who believe! Enter not the dwellings of the Prophet for a meal without waiting for the proper time, unless permission be granted you. But if ye are ...

1. Why was Mary pregnant at such young age by the Holy Spirit?

2. Why did Jesus not speak against (or abolish) child marriages?

3. How come Paul says nothing against such marriages?

4. Why did Yahweh not say anything against Mary’s marriage with Joseph?

5. Why did Yahweh bless the marriage of Joseph, who was 80 - 90 years old at least, with 12-year-old Mary?

Joseph married mary at the age of 12.

OP, You are very delusional... Muslims and unnecessary eagerness to justify their religion... Does this even have anything to do with religion... My brother get a life and don't forget to live it with sense... Because this poo u posted up there is nonsense and lifeless just like one president from your religion...

Your lies have been debunked over and over again and we will keep debunking them.

Question: "Is Jesus a myth? Is Jesus just a copy of the pagan gods of other ancient religions?"

Answer: There are a number of people claiming that the accounts of Jesus as recorded in the New Testament are simply myths borrowed from pagan folklore, such as the stories of Osiris, Dionysus, Adonis, Attis, and Mithras. The claim is that these myths are essentially the same story as the New Testament’s narrative of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. As Dan Brown claims in The Da Vinci Code, “Nothing in Christianity is original.”

To discover the truth about the claim that the Gospel writers borrowed from mythology, it is important to (1) unearth the history behind the assertions, (2) examine the actual portrayals of the false gods being compared to Christ, (3) expose any logical fallacies being made, and (4) look at why the New Testament Gospels are trustworthy depictions of the true and historical Jesus Christ.

The claim that Jesus was a myth or an exaggeration originated in the writings of liberal German theologians in the nineteenth century. They essentially said that Jesus was nothing more than a copy of popular dying-and-rising fertility gods in various places—Tammuz in Mesopotamia, Adonis in Syria, Attis in Asia Minor, and Horus in Egypt. Of note is the fact that none of the books containing these theories were taken seriously by the academics of the day. The assertion that Jesus was a recycled Tammuz, for example, was investigated by contemporary scholars and determined to be completely baseless. It has only been recently that these assertions have been resurrected, primarily due to the rise of the Internet and the mass distribution of information from unaccountable sources.

This leads us to the next area of investigation—do the mythological gods of antiquity really mirror the person of Jesus Christ? As an example, the Zeitgeist movie makes these claims about the Egyptian god Horus:

• He was born on December 25 of a virgin: Isis Mary
• A star in the East proclaimed his arrival
• Three kings came to adore the newborn “savior”
• He became a child prodigy teacher at age 12
• At age 30 he was “baptized” and began a “ministry”
• Horus had twelve “disciples”
• Horus was betrayed
• He was crucified
• He was buried for three days
• He was resurrected after three days

However, when the actual writings about Horus are competently examined, this is what we find:

• Horus was born to Isis; there is no mention in history of her being called “Mary.” Moreover, “Mary” is our Anglicized form of her real name, Miryam or Miriam. “Mary” was not even used in the original texts of Scripture.
• Isis was not a virgin; she was the widow of Osiris and conceived Horus with Osiris.
• Horus was born during month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), not December 25. Further, there is no mention in the Bible as to Christ’s actual birth date.
• There is no record of three kings visiting Horus at his birth. The Bible never states the actual number of magi that came to see Christ.
• Horus is not a “savior” in any way; he did not die for anyone.
• There are no accounts of Horus being a teacher at the age of 12.
• Horus was not “baptized.” The only account of Horus that involves water is one story where Horus is torn to pieces, with Isis requesting the crocodile god to fish him out of the water.
• Horus did not have a “ministry.”
• Horus did not have 12 disciples. According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four demigods that followed him, and there are some indications of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him.
• There is no account of Horus being betrayed by a friend.
• Horus did not die by crucifixion. There are various accounts of Horus’ death, but none of them involve crucifixion.
• There is no account of Horus being buried for three days.
• Horus was not resurrected. There is no account of Horus coming out of the grave with the body he went in with. Some accounts have Horus/Osiris being brought back to life by Isis and then becoming the lord of the underworld.

When compared side by side, Jesus and Horus bear little, if any, resemblance to one another.

Jesus is also compared to Mithras by those claiming that Jesus Christ is a myth. All the above descriptions of Horus are applied to Mithras (e.g., born of a virgin, being crucified, rising in three days, etc.). But what does the Mithras myth actually say?

• He was born out of a solid rock, not from any woman.
• He battled first with the sun and then with a primeval bull, thought to be the first act of creation. Mithras killed the bull, which then became the ground of life for the human race.
• Mithras’s birth was celebrated on December 25, along with winter solstice.
• There is no mention of his being a great teacher.
• There is no mention of Mithras having 12 disciples. The idea that Mithras had 12 disciples may have come from a mural in which Mithras is surrounded by the twelve signs of the zodiac.
• Mithras had no bodily resurrection. Rather, when Mithras completed his earthly mission, he was taken to paradise in a chariot, alive and well. The early Christian writer Tertullian did write about Mithraic cultists re-enacting resurrection scenes, but this occurred well after New Testament times, so if any copycatting was done, it was Mithraism copying Christianity.

More examples can be given of Krishna, Attis, Dionysus, and other mythological gods, but the result is the same. In the end, the historical Jesus portrayed in the Bible is unique. The alleged similarities of Jesus’ story to pagan myths are greatly exaggerated. Further, while tales of Horus, Mithras, and others pre-date Christianity, there is very little historical record of the pre-Christian beliefs of those religions. The vast majority of the earliest writings of these religions date from the third and fourth centuries A.D. To assume that the pre-Christian beliefs of these religions (of which there is no record) were identical to their post-Christian beliefs is naive. It is more logical to attribute any similarities between these religions and Christianity to the religions’ copying Christian teaching about Jesus.

This leads us to the next area to examine: the logical fallacies committed by those claiming that Christianity borrowed from pagan mystery religions. We’ll consider two fallacies in particular: the fallacy of the false cause and the terminological fallacy.

If one thing precedes another, some conclude that the first thing must have caused the second. This is the fallacy of the false cause. A rooster may crow before the sunrise every morning, but that does not mean the rooster causes the sun to rise. Even if pre-Christian accounts of mythological gods closely resembled Christ (and they do not), it does not mean they caused the Gospel writers to invent a false Jesus. Making such a claim is akin to saying the TV series Star Trek caused the NASA Space Shuttle program.

The terminological fallacy occurs when words are redefined to prove a point. For example, the Zeitgeist movie says that Horus “began his ministry,” but the word ministry is being redefined. Horus had no actual “ministry”—nothing like that of Christ’s ministry. Those claiming a link between Mithras and Jesus talk about the “baptism” that initiated prospects into the Mithras cult, but what was it actually? Mithraic priests would place initiates into a pit, suspend a bull over the pit, and slit the bull’s stomach, covering the initiates in blood and gore. Such a practice bears no resemblance whatsoever to Christian baptism—a person going under water (symbolizing the death of Christ) and then coming back out of the water (symbolizing Christ’s resurrection). But advocates of a mythological Jesus deceptively use the same term, “baptism,” to describe both rites in hopes of linking the two.

This brings us to the subject of the truthfulness of the New Testament. No other work of antiquity has more evidence to its historical veracity than the New Testament. The New Testament has more writers (nine), better writers, and earlier writers than any other existing document from that era. Further, history testifies that these writers went to their deaths claiming that Jesus had risen from the dead. While some may die for a lie they think is true, no person dies for a lie he knows to be false. Think about it—if you were threatened with crucifixion, as tradition says happened to the apostle Peter, and all you had to do to save your life was renounce a lie you had knowingly told, what would you do?

In addition, history has shown that it takes at least two generations to pass before myth can enter a historical account. That’s because, as long as there are eyewitnesses to an event, errors can be refuted and mythical embellishments can be exposed. All the Gospels of the New Testament were written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses, with some of Paul’s Epistles being written as early as A.D. 50. Paul directly appeals to contemporary eyewitnesses to verify his testimony (1 Corinthians 15:6).

The New Testament attests to the fact that, in the first century, Jesus was not mistaken for any other god. When Paul preached in Athens, the elite thinkers of that city said, “‘He seems to be a proclaimer of strange deities,’—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, ‘May we know what this new teaching is which you are proclaiming? For you are bringing some strange things to our ears; so we want to know what these things mean’” (Acts 17:18–20, NASB). Clearly, if Paul were simply rehashing stories of other gods, the Athenians would not have referred to his doctrine as a “new” and “strange” teaching. If dying-and-rising gods were plentiful in the first century, why, when the apostle Paul preached Jesus rising from the dead, did the Epicureans and Stoics not remark, “Ah, just like Horus and Mithras”?

In conclusion, the claim that Jesus is a copy of mythological gods originated with authors whose works have been discounted by academia, contain logical fallacies, and cannot compare to the New Testament Gospels, which have withstood nearly 2,000 years of intense scrutiny. The alleged parallels between Jesus and other gods disappear when the original myths are examined. The Jesus-is-a-myth theory relies on selective descriptions, redefined words, and false assumptions.

Jesus Christ is unique in history, with His voice rising above all false gods’ as He asks the question that ultimately determines a person’s eternal destiny: “Who do you say I am?” (Matthew 16:15).

ollah2:
Before Abrahamic religions birthed, Krishna and Buddha of India, Salivahana of Bermuda, Osiris and horus of Egypt, Odin of the Scandinavians, Adonis, son of the virgin lo of Greece etc were thousands of years before these three religions.

Horus, Krishna, Orisis, Mithra, Budda are all virgin Gods

Horus was the "only begotten son" of a god called Osiris, had a mother called Meri. His coming was announced to his mother by an angel. Horus was visited at birth by “three solar deities” and Jesus was visited by “three wise men”. Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual. Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
Both were baptized at age 30. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
Both Anup and John were later beheaded. Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation. Both have 12 disciples.
Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
Horus “stilled the sea by his power.” Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, “Peace, be still.”
Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)
Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, “house of Anu”).
Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount. Both were crucified.


Everything was plagiarized from ancient Egypt. Before you castigate another ensure you look in the mirror and learn that what you hold precious was entirely copied

Igbobyblood:
Nonsense as usual

Emulate terrorists ke?

Pervert

Islam is d religion of peace, and sooner or later truth shall prevail no matter how

ambitiouschap:
salam alaiekun. pls I want to ask can a Muslim vote, cos where I observe ishai last night the young imam was telling us not to vote cos it is against Islam view.
cc :lukgaf

Non-sense, how would we choose Muslims to rule over us? The last time a non-muslim ruled over us it was all bloodshed.