₦airaland Forum

Zhike, you are wasting your time as I am also wasting mine right now. Nigerians masses do not believe in merit and competition. Our Government also hates competition. You get what you get not based on your competence but your connections. With this mentality, nothing can ever work.

Nigerian companies cannot compete with other nations because the factors of production in Nigeria are higher than other countries.

Factors such as electricity and security are high as a result of mass poverty.

Mass poverty is high as a result of incompetent people in high places.

Incompetent people in high places is as a result of Nigerians not believing in merit but in unmerited favour and connections. Who is popular should win mentality not who is capable.

It is a never ending cycle.

Tianamen1:
Zhike, you are wasting your time as I am also wasting mine right now. Nigerians masses do not believe in merit and competition. Our Government also hates competition. You get what you get not based on your competence but your connections. With this mentality, nothing can ever work.

Nigerian companies cannot compete with other nations because the factors of production in Nigeria are higher than other countries.

Factors such as electricity and security are high as a result of mass poverty.

Mass poverty is high as a result of incompetent people in high places.

Incompetent people in high places is as a result of Nigerians not believing in merit but in unmerited favour and connections. Who is popular should win mentality not who is capable.

It is a never ending cycle.

thanks for this information, I really agree with you.

zhike:
Mind you, in South Africa there is no decay buildings. there is no unemployment (if other Africas migrants were not working there). the right time to start is now.

Oga, free trade isn't capacity building nor exchange of ideas, it is simply buying wherever you wish to buy a commodity without any form of restriction.
You can choose to go buy your bottle of pepsi in Egypt while you take it to Benin to sell, nobody cares, any commodity available in the open market in your home country can also be sourced from any other country within the treaty.
If SA refuses to give license to a Chinese company to avoid unfavorable competition, can a Togo do same?
Also any company incorporated in any nation is also a company in that nation, so if a nation's law permits a foreigner to setup a company with 100% foreign ownership, the company is still a company of the country in which it is domiciled, eg, a 100% Spanish owned company incorporated and operating in Libya is a Libyan company, so all products from the Libya plant will bear Made in Libya.

OlujobaSamuel:
Oga, free trade isn't capacity building nor exchange of ideas, it is simply buying wherever you wish to buy a commodity without any form of restriction.
You can choose to go buy your bottle of pepsi in Egypt while you take it to Benin to sell, nobody cares, any commodity available in the open market in your home country can also be sourced from any other country within the treaty.
If SA refuses to give license to a Chinese company to avoid unfavorable competition, can a Togo do same?
Also any company incorporated in any nation is also a company in that nation, so if a nation's law permits a foreigner to setup a company with 100% foreign ownership, the company is still a company of the country in which it is domiciled, eg, a 100% Spanish owned company incorporated and operating in Libya is a Libyan company, so all products from the Libya plant will bear Made in Libya.

free trade means Spain companies can set up plant in Nigeria and produce items from Nigeria (note: Nigerians are employed), because the company is from spain it will be charged tariffs. SA companies can set up plant in Nigeria and produce items from Nigeria, because the company is from south africa it will not be charged tariffs.


kindly note that any items that are sold at South Africa they must be approved by SANBS, if items are not approved by SANBS they won't be sold in SA. spain company in Nigeria will be charged tax and also asked to sell some of its shares to local people. hence in the international companies there is tax, it automatically gives local competitors advantage.

zhike:
free trade means Spain companies can set up plant in Nigeria and produce items from Nigeria (note: Nigerians are employed), because the company is from spain it will be charged tariffs. SA companies can set up plant in Nigeria and produce items from Nigeria, because the company is from south africa it will not be charged tariffs.


kindly note that any items that are sold at South Africa they must be approved by SANBS, if items are not approved by SANBS they won't be sold in SA. spain company in Nigeria will be charged tax and also asked to sell some of its shares to local people. hence in the international companies there is tax, it automatically gives local competitors advantage.

You don't tax a company by virtue of ownership race or nationality, MTN Ng is a Nigerian company, Google Ng is a Nigerian company, in international business, a parent company is always separated from it's subsidiary, they all file separate reports, so also is its operations.
Sometimes, a company even have to take a make or buy decision from co-subsidiary of same parent company.
Also free trade isn't about setting up a company, it's about buying and selling of products. What you are probably referring to is Free Trade Zone, under FTZ, the company come to set up within the situated location and sell it's commodity there. Sales there are tax free

How then do you setup companies without basic infrastructure such as steady electricity? First things first before trade liberalisation cos it will only benefit those who have industralized as against those who haven't.

zhike:
free trade means Spain companies can set up plant in Nigeria and produce items from Nigeria (note: Nigerians are employed), because the company is from spain it will be charged tariffs. SA companies can set up plant in Nigeria and produce items from Nigeria, because the company is from south africa it will not be charged tariffs.


kindly note that any items that are sold at South Africa they must be approved by SANBS, if items are not approved by SANBS they won't be sold in SA. spain company in Nigeria will be charged tax and also asked to sell some of its shares to local people. hence in the international companies there is tax, it automatically gives local competitors advantage.

Foreign direct investment is different from trade liberalisation.

zhike:
free trade means Spain companies can set up plant in Nigeria and produce items from Nigeria (note: Nigerians are employed), because the company is from spain it will be charged tariffs. SA companies can set up plant in Nigeria and produce items from Nigeria, because the company is from south africa it will not be charged tariffs.


kindly note that any items that are sold at South Africa they must be approved by SANBS, if items are not approved by SANBS they won't be sold in SA. spain company in Nigeria will be charged tax and also asked to sell some of its shares to local people. hence in the international companies there is tax, it automatically gives local competitors advantage.

There are many reasons Nigeria is leery of signing that agreement we participated in negotiating.

Take oil, cement, textile and rice for examples.

Each are easily smuggled in and out of Nigeria without Free Trade. Imagine with Free Trade?

Yet, without Free Trade within African countries, Africa will sink!

Our problem with Free Trade is man-made out of greed and profit without production.

Think about how our raw and finished oil is cheaper or sold for profit in neighboring countries. Why is cement cheaper outside?

As for electricity or power, Dagote or Ibeto can create their own infrastructure in East and West African countries and still sell cement cheaper there and make profit. But more profit can be made in Nigeria.

Rice can be easily smuggled into Nigeria cheaper than local rice production because Nigerian farmers want the same or more profit. The same is true for textile. This is how we kill ours.

We prefer imported or smuggled wheat for bread than cassava bread.

Solution - enforce Custom law and lawlessness that no other country in the world would tolerate.

Do not fool yourselves. Most imports are done by Igbo, most bankers behind imports are Yoruba and most forex dealers are Hausa.

Greed, conspicuous and ostentatious announcement of vanity on social media is cancer eating moral economy of Nigeria.

Clean house and sign the damn Free Trade.

OlujobaSamuel:
You don't tax a company by virtue of ownership race or nationality, MTN Ng is a Nigerian company, Google Ng is a Nigerian company, in international business, a parent company is always separated from it's subsidiary, they all file separate reports, so also is its operations.
Sometimes, a company even have to take a make or buy decision from co-subsidiary of same parent company.
Also free trade isn't about setting up a company, it's about buying and selling of products. What you are probably referring to is Free Trade Zone, under FTZ, the company come to set up within the situated location and sell it's commodity there. Sales there are tax free

Thanks for the information. Virgin mobile SA was a South african company listed in JSE. it failed to compete with MTN and Vodacom because virgin mobile was unable to get contract from SA govt because of SA rules. also note every product to be in SA market must be approved by SABS (note : product could not be disapproved because of fear of competition, because competition is good for customers).

Intellectual201:
How then do you setup companies without basic infrastructure such steady electricity? First things first before trade liberalisation cos it will only benefit those who have industralized as against those who haven't.

it will benefit Nigeria toomuch, because those companies are forced to start by creating basic infrastructure such as electricity and piped water.

Intellectual201:
Foreign direct investment is different from trade liberalisation.

The big reason for free trade is to increase trade among african countries. to buy car manufactured in Africa, it will be cheaper than to buy car developed in asia.

googi:
There are many reasons Nigeria is leery of signing that agreement we participated in negotiating.

Take oil, cement, textile and rice for examples.

Each are easily smuggled in and out of Nigeria without Free Trade. Imagine with Free Trade?

Yet, without Free Trade within African countries, Africa will sink!

Our problem with Free Trade is man-made out of greed and profit without production.

Think about how our raw and finished oil is cheaper or sold for profit in neighboring countries. Why is cement cheaper outside?

As for electricity or power, Dagote or Ibeto can create their own infrastructure in East and West African countries and still sell cement cheaper there and make profit. But more profit can be made in Nigeria.

Rice can be easily smuggled into Nigeria cheaper than local rice production because Nigerian farmers want the same or more profit. The same is true for textile. This is how we kill ours.

We prefer imported or smuggled wheat for bread than cassava bread.

Solution - enforce Custom law and lawlessness that no other country in the world would tolerate.

Do not fool yourselves. Most imports are done by Igbo, most bankers behind imports are Yoruba and most forex dealers are Hausa.

Greed, conspicuous and ostentatious announcement of vanity on social media is cancer eating moral economy of Nigeria.

Clean house and sign the damn Free Trade.

Clean house indeed. I agree Nigeria must monitor what comes in and out of Nigeria, is a basic principle for every country. Nigeria must sign free trade and ask assistance from Botswana or South Africa of how they manage goods coming to their country.

zhike:
Clean house indeed. I agree Nigeria must monitor what comes in and out of Nigeria, is a basic principle for every country. Nigeria must sign free trade and ask assistance from Botswana or South Africa of how they manage goods coming to their country.

It is like you are not Nigerian. Our problems revolve around which tribe is the richest and which tribe commits the most crimes. This your talk is not a major issue in Nigeria.

When it is time, god will give Nigerians a leader that would build all the infrastructure, would stop corruption and allow us to worship in peace.

As for now, we would fold our arms in hope and prayer that the South-westerner, who takes over from Buhari, will move the country from 7 point agenda, transformation agenda, change agenda, next level agenda to transfiguration agenda.

Now leave us let us have peace. We don't want free trade agreement. You think you are wiser than us. We are the smartest people on earth.

We don't want more foreign direct investments due to a larger market size and also more stable pan African economy

We don't want foreign technology as we have many universities producing TOP engineers who can develop anything imaginable

We don't cheaper higher quality goods as a result of market efficiency.

The rest of Africa should first wait for Nigeria to catch up just like the southern protectorate had to wait for the north to be ready for independence.

Will African nations give us national character forcing all African nations to buy our Garri? how can be compete if such favors are not granted. Just as northern Nigeria has benefitted from low requirements performance for the last 40 years and have still not caught up, will Nigeria be given such preferences for 40 years?

My fellow Nigerians no dey carry last. We may be the country with the highest number of people living in extreme poverty. we may have the highest number of out of school children. We may be the sixth unhappiest nation on earth, but we will not fall Mugu for the rest of Africa. We are big giant of Africa and Africans must respect us.

Leadership is about influence. You can't lead the masses if you are not popular with the people no matter how competent you are. What successful leaders have done is to surround themselves with smart people.

zhike:
thanks for this information, I really agree with you.

zhike:
Thanks for the information. Virgin mobile SA was a South african company listed in JSE. it failed to compete with MTN and Vodacom because virgin mobile was unable to get contract from SA govt because of SA rules. also note every product to be in SA market must be approved by SABS (note : product could not be disapproved because of fear of competition, because competition is good for customers).

SA rules affect companies operating in SA, it has no effect the rules of other nations. Also the free trade isn't just about SA and NG, so I don't know why you limit it to those two nations.

Intellectual201:
The question is, what is other African countries producing that Nigeria isn't or cannot produce.

many

This is probably the only good thing buhari has done so far. Even Donald Trump is reversing and canceling many trade treaties which the USA has been party of and which has affected the local industry in USA ,eg aluminum . If care isn't taken , even many Nigerian enterprenuers will find it cheaper taking their capital to other countries and setting up their companies and factories there and only exporting to Nigeria if this treaty was signed .
With the epileptic power supply and infrastructural decay in Nigeria,it will be a national suicide for Nigeria to be part of any free trade treaty for now at least until we fix our infrastructure

Tianamen1:
It is like you are not Nigerian. Our problems revolve around which tribe is the richest and which tribe commits the most crimes. This your talk is not a major issue in Nigeria.

When it is time, god will give Nigerians a leader that would build all the infrastructure, would stop corruption and allow us to worship in peace.

As for now, we would fold our arms in hope and prayer that the South-westerner, who takes over from Buhari, will move the country from 7 point agenda, transformation agenda, change agenda, next level agenda to transfiguration agenda.

Now leave us let us have peace. We don't want free trade agreement. You think you are wiser than us. We are the smartest people on earth.

We don't want more foreign direct investments due to a larger market size and also more stable pan African economy

We don't want foreign technology as we have many universities producing TOP engineers who can develop anything imaginable

We don't cheaper higher quality goods as a result of market efficiency.

The rest of Africa should first wait for Nigeria to catch up just like the southern protectorate had to wait for the north to be ready for independence.

Will African nations give us national character forcing all African nations to buy our Garri? how can be compete if such favors are not granted. Just as northern Nigeria has benefitted from low requirements performance for the last 40 years and have still not caught up, will Nigeria be given such preferences for 40 years?

My fellow Nigerians no dey carry last. We may be the country with the highest number of people living in extreme poverty. we may have the highest number of out of school children. We may be the sixth unhappiest nation on earth, but we will not fall Mugu for the rest of Africa. We are big giant of Africa and Africans must respect us.

I agree totally with you. Nigeria must continue following regressive policies that has kept her languishing in third world poverty. Why must Nigeria sign a free trade agreement that will bring about creative destruction and force it's companies to be competitive and focus on where it has comparative advantage? Why,why, why?

What has crude oil or our commodities ever done for the country sef?

Intellectual201:
Africa should deal with issues such as infrastructure decay and human capacity so that it can increase it's production base before talking about trade liberalisation so as not to maintain the current level of unemployment with insecurity that comes along with.

I wonder why this basic fact is difficult to understand. Every country needs to produce before you can trade , you need to solve the issue of infrastructure and human capital development before you can produce.
Nigeria at present have huge market due to its population, but very little to trade with outside crude. We have absolutely little control on oil trading which is controlled by OPEC. So what is the benefit of entering a free trade agreement?

grandstar:
I agree totally with you. Nigeria must continue following retarded policies that has kept her languishing in third world poverty. Why must Nigeria sign a free trade agreement that will bring about creative destruction and force it's companies to be competitive and focus on where it has comparative advantage? Why,why, why?

What has crude oil or our commodities ever done for the country sef?

How will free trade agreement bring about creative destruction and force it's companies to be competitive? Also state areas where Nigeria has comparative advantage in Africa?

When countries like the US is weary of free trade agreements, you want Nigeria with poor infrastructure, poor human capital development, high levels of corruption to enter headlong?

Mynd44:
Because if you sign it, China com set up a factory in Cameroon and flood Nigeria with Garri that we can produce here with 90% of tariffs cancelled.

These countries have cheap labor and a lower production cost while we are the largest market.

It is economic suicide

England wants to Brexit the EU,Nigeria doesn't need to sign that bullshit treaty,we like our chances,we stand on our own.

wirinet:
How will free trade agreement bring about creative destruction and force it's companies to be competitive? Also state areas where Nigeria has comparative advantage in Africa?

When countries like the US is weary of free trade agreements, you want Nigeria with poor infrastructure, poor human capital development, high levels of corruption to enter headlong?

Trump sadly is a protectionist and is doing damage to the American economy. Economic growth last year was 2.9% instead of the 3% + expected and the prime culprit was Trump's trade war. Nigeria should not follow that route.

The truth is free trade will force the country to sit up. There's no choice.

Also, there are areas the country has comparative advantage despite poor infrastructure. Nigerian manufactured goods are found throughout West and Central Africa. Rumour has it up to Zimbabwe. That shows things are not as despondent as they seem.

Daily, buyers from West Africa besiege the markets in Lagos Island and leave with lorry loads of goods. Same with agricultural products. They besiege the Northern states leaving with trailers loads of foodstuff.

To say the country lacks comparative advantage in some areas is therefore not entirely true.

Also,a Free Trade Agreement may encourage the setting up of industrial parks with dedicated power 24houra a day and other amenities. Companies based in these parks will therefore have a competitive edge.

Smart states or even investors can set such induatrial parks in their states. The more the better.

The biggest benefit will be that Niàgerian companies are forced to be competitive and focus on areas they have comparative advantage,. At the end if the day, it will encourage an export push outside African shores which is desperately needed. Only, when Nigeria does that, can it bring about the needed transformation from third world to first world.

Also, it will compel government to target the most expensive expense or cost which is that if credit. Credit is unnecessarily high considering fiscal deficits rarely go beyond 2% of GDP. Lending rates and inflation have always been in double digits.

The high cost of credit has scared off investments in the manufacturing sector and in the real sectors altogether. It has also led to low productivity. which makes manufacturers uncompetitive.

I can see Nigeria doing well in textile garments for instance. It can import cheap textile fabrics from other African countries and turn them into garments. These garments will not only be exported to other African countries but outside African shores as well Nigeria with it's 200m people will have an edge in labour intensive factories like these

And if the country is making headway in garments, they will be compelled to set up fabric plants in order to achieve quick turnarounds to meet targets set by their buyers based in Europe and America.

I foresee Chinese manufacturers setting up shop enmasse here and creating lots of jobs now that wages have shot through the roof in China and the easiest way for their manufacturers to remain competitive is to set up factories in low wage countries like Nigeria. Factory Asia on our doorsteps.

One thing I find striking about those who make arguments for protectionism is how they fail to follow through on the full implications of their position. If erecting trade barriers between countries is good for development, then surely the same must be true within countries, at the regional, state and even city level? Shouldn't the protectionists also be pleading for onerous customs checks and high tariff barriers between all 36 of Nigeria's states?

No country ever got rich because of protectionist policies, but despite them, and that small set of countries only includes those big enough for their internal markets to be continental-scale in their own right (e.g. the USA in the late 19th century, or China today). As for the argument that Chinese companies could set up as "domestic" manufacturers in one African country an then drive competitors everywhere else in the continent out of business, what is the difference between such a "Chinese" company, and an African like Dangote raising money on the NYSE or the Shanghai stock exchange, and then bringing in Chinese managers to do the same? And why is it that advocates of protectionism never weigh the gains in consumer welfare against the jobs potentially lost to competition? Don't ordinary Africans deserve to have their meager incomes buy more and better clothes, books, cement and whatever else? This one-sided, producer-centric view of things is as unbalanced and irrational as the common Nigerian obsession with state governments paying salaries "as at when due" [sic] for masses of under-employed "workers" at the expense of roads, hospitals, schools and everything else.

Like?

onatisi:
many

it is one thing to have the resources to produce and it is another thing to have the capacity to produce things ,
yes nigeria has abundant natural and human resources to produce virtually anything in this world but as at present we only have limited capacity to produce very little , this is why government need to quickily develop all necessary infrastructures to enable Nigerians have the capacity to produce exportable goods and servoces

Intellectual201:
Like?

With all respect, I can understand the fear of those that do not want Free Trade. Someone even defeat his own argument with the protectionist tendencies of USA and China.

Please understand that China was allowed into Rich Country Club to spite Russia. China is now a threat and it cannot get away with those protectionist policies again.

In the case of USA, they are just mad that they are no longer the only producers of finished and pricy goods people love to buy based on their popular culture that has nothing to do with their expensive products. They live on designer products. The other source of income are Ammunitions and nuclear threats like other Western and Asia countries like India and now Pakistan. Iran is developing home-made ammunition while Nigeria sleeps and spend fortune acquiring ready-made arms.

The problem with Nigeria protecting its border is nothing but mirage, bunk and foolishness. All African countries have unfair and Free Trade (against them) with Western and Asian countries. Actually, many of these countries even go beyond Free Trade, they create FREE TRADE ZONES within their countries for any foreign country outside Africa.

So please understand we are already a free trade ZONE. All we are saying right now is to open your country to fellow African countries the way we open it to foreign countries outside Africa.

Trading within Africa is less than 20% or so while we trade 70% with countries outside Africa. This is the main purpose this Agreement is suppose to change.

Mynd44:
Because if you sign it, China com set up a factory in Cameroon and flood Nigeria with Garri that we can produce here with 90% of tariffs cancelled.

These countries have cheap labor and a lower production cost while we are the largest market.

It is economic suicide

I love your perspective.

zhike:
No, Buhari made a bad decision. you must believe that Nigerian companies will go out and conquer all their competitors. South Africa will not allow chnise companies to operate in the free trade deal. Believe South Africa has good plans to manage this free trade deal.

They're all targeting the Nigerian market.

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Tianamen1:
It is like you are not Nigerian. Our problems revolve around which tribe is the richest and which tribe commits the most crimes. This your talk is not a major issue in Nigeria.

When it is time, god will give Nigerians a leader that would build all the infrastructure, would stop corruption and allow us to worship in peace.

As for now, we would fold our arms in hope and prayer that the South-westerner, who takes over from Buhari, will move the country from 7 point agenda, transformation agenda, change agenda, next level agenda to transfiguration agenda.

Now leave us let us have peace. We don't want free trade agreement. You think you are wiser than us. We are the smartest people on earth.

We don't want more foreign direct investments due to a larger market size and also more stable pan African economy

We don't want foreign technology as we have many universities producing TOP engineers who can develop anything imaginable

We don't cheaper higher quality goods as a result of market efficiency.

The rest of Africa should first wait for Nigeria to catch up just like the southern protectorate had to wait for the north to be ready for independence.

Will African nations give us national character forcing all African nations to buy our Garri? how can be compete if such favors are not granted. Just as northern Nigeria has benefitted from low requirements performance for the last 40 years and have still not caught up, will Nigeria be given such preferences for 40 years?

My fellow Nigerians no dey carry last. We may be the country with the highest number of people living in extreme poverty. we may have the highest number of out of school children. We may be the sixth unhappiest nation on earth, but we will not fall Mugu for the rest of Africa. We are big giant of Africa and Africans must respect us.

Thanks for the response. I really agree Nigerians are one of the smartest people on earth. they are professors in most South African universities. countries will have diff tribes and tribes will never have same status. some tribes will be richer than other tribes. is the internal of each and every country, even South africa has internal problem such tribe issue, lot of foreigners. internal issue are not supposed to stop nigeria to progress. internal issue will alws be there. that is why nigeria should join this deal, it will be easy for SA companies to come and assist nigeria with security issues, enerygy issues and processing oils.

If you are poor you must work towards been well.

Intellectual201:
Leadership is about influence. You can't lead the masses if you are not popular with the people no matter how competent you are. What successful leaders have done is to surround themselves with smart people.

My dear you must watch south africa politics, you can wake up from no where and became great leader. check mmusi maimane and julius malema.