₦airaland Forum

Buhari is demonic and evil,like a vampare who takes pleasure in agony and pain of his people. They confused the programmed fools how subsidy can not be sustained because they want to inflict more pains on the helpless Nigerians but can't explain how consumption rate skyrocketed when Nigeria is the capital of poverty.

Hmmmmmmmm
APC used ""subsidy Removal"" as one of their campaign Agenda, They said Subsidy is fraud..
4 yrs down d line, APC still pays for subsidy.. .
Nigeria my country

grandstar:
What you wrote indicates you're part of the problem. You seem to want cheap fuel. You can't have the two. Either you want the complete removal of fuel subsidy or you don't.

The removal may mean the price will rise very high or not. Any expectation of a cheap price should be thrown out through the window.

To have an idea how much petrol will cost, check the prices of diesel and kerosene as they are not subsidized.

Dangote said that his refinery will save Otedola N26 per litre. This statement is neither here nor there as international fuel price is volatile.

It's not the job of the government to build refineries. That's a private sector venture. Dangote's daily refining capacity can satisfy the entire country with a lot available for export.

^^^
No sir. I am not part of the problem. I just want a clear, unemotional statement of the facts.

It is clear there is a subsidy on imported petrol and that subsidy must go - it makes no sense for a 3rd world country to import refined petroleum products that are US dollar priced.

What isn't clear is if there is a subsidy on locally refined petrol - you know, the petrol refined in Kaduna, Warri or Port Harcourt from Nigerian crude oil.

I have said nothing about expectations of cheap prices. I just want the facts. If the landing cost of a litre of imported petrol is in the public domain, (accessible at the click of a button) then the cost of a litre of locally refined petrol, diesel or kerosene should also be in the public domain too. I can then draw my own conclusions.

Oh yes indeed it is not the business of governments to build refineries. I wonder what Statoil, Aramco, Petrobras and the others would have to say about that...

MrPresident1:
Next level

Affliction shall not rise again a second time, this is the word of the LORD.

Amen!

God punish Nigerian leaders/terrorism government.

Nigeria must fall.

SilasNwude:
Buhari is the worst president since mankind

very useless uncircumcised vagabond old hag nonentity bastard burukutu sipping gorilla

spits on his shrink dicck

Hahahaha..

Bros abeg take it it easy with him.

Which one be shrink dick again.

Show some respect men.

Profit at 3 naira is so poor.How do you make provisions for depreciation? God help Nigeria.

coolfredo:
I own a filling station, landing as at last week i sent for product was 138 naira with transportation to my station was 142 naira right now we are selling at 150 per liter now yesterday Department of Petroleum Resources came and seal our station because we sale above 145 approved price. Pls how is it possible to buy at 142 m sale at 145?

Next level jihadists.

FearGodinall:
Buhari is demonic and evil,like a vampare who takes pleasure in agony and pain of his people. They confused the programmed fools how subsidy can not be sustained because they want to inflict more pains on the helpless Nigerians but can't explain how consumption rate skyrocketed when Nigeria is the capital of poverty.

Hoodbilonia:
Hahahahaha
I said it
Gbam gbam
Finally its has happened
Nigeria is cursed by the Devil Himself

NO,YOUR village is cursed. Nigeria is blessed.

Pls. sir, with 3 you will still make and also cover your running cost
call a spade a spade.

In 4 years, you did not concession the refineries. You did not build even just one new refinery. Lately, you awarded TAM contract for the failed refineries and it has never worked every time a TAM was awarded. Another food for the boys. DPR awarded over a Billion Naira contract for the design of its office in Abuja. That must be a priority project to spend One Billion of scarce resources on it. Summary, this government is not serious in many things it should be. The Oil industry is gone back to food for the boys and they expect the masses to bear the brunt. What stops the government from selling the refineries or at least concession? The elite are the problems of this country. North and South, they are stealing.

.

ORACLE1975:
The landing cost of Premium Motor Spirit, also known as petrol, is N35 higher than the pump price of N145 per litre, the Minister of State for Petroleum Resources, Dr Ibe Kachikwu, said on Tuesday.
Kachikwu said the rise in global crude oil prices after the 2016 hike in petrol price brought back subsidy.
Recalling the experience of 2016, when the government increased petrol price from N86.5 to N145 after months of severe scarcity, he described fuel subsidy as an emotive issue.

“You have very positive argument that says, ‘Why is this happening; let’s get it out.’ Once you do it, the streets get flooded by protesters. You have five or six or 10 days of no activity in the country. So, any attempt to remove the subsidy must be very well-managed,” the minister said on the NTA Good Morning Nigeria programme, monitored by our correspondent.

He noted that in 2016, the government wrote to the Nigeria Labour Congress and all the trade unions, adding that meetings were held with the security apparatus.
Kachikwu said, “Even when there was a consensus on how we were going to do it, we still had an issue at the very tail end of the moment; NUPENG and PENGASSAN supported but, of course, the other members of the trade unions pulled out.

“Eventually, thankfully, Nigerians saw through what we were trying to do and let it happen. And thank God that happened at the time because when you look at the gap today, the landing cost is about N180 per litre and sale price is N145. Imagine if it (pump price) was N90-something; we will literally be a bankrupt country.”
The minister added, “The point I am making is that anything you are going to do on subsidy requires a very efficient management of information – getting everybody who are stakeholders to tie into it.

“Should we deal with the removal of subsidy? I was gung-ho when I assumed this position that there was no way I was going to tolerate a subsidy regime at the time in 2015 of about N1.2tn-N1.3tn. There was just no way; we didn’t have the capacity to continue to pay.”
“So, I convinced the President that this needed to happen; thankfully, he listened, he agreed and we did. Now, we then had over-recovery period for quite a while and then we went into this upswing in prices that has now taken us again into under-recovery.”
The minister noted that the government had not paid marketers all the outstanding subsidy arrears.He said, “I think, first and foremost, we need to find a way of fixing refineries quickly, whether it is government-funded or whatever – my preference is always private sector funding.

“I think the labour union has never really said they would not be supportive of an attempt to take away this subsidy element; the union has always said, ‘If you are doing it, show me what you [will] do with those new receipts of income. Two, what do you do with the refineries?’ Therefore, we need to address those to even get their buy-in.“Secondly, we need to segregate between those who need subsidy and those who don’t; you will find that 80 per cent or more of those who get subsidy today do not need it. There is nothing necessarily bad with some element of subsidy if it is well-managed and is very little, and if the private sector can take it away completely; that is fantastic. That is the most ideal situation.”
The Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation, which has been the sole importer of petrol into the country for about two years after private oil marketers withdrew from the importation of the product, bears the burden of subsidising the product.
As of March 20, 2018, when the international benchmark price for oil (Brent) was around $66 per barrel, the expected open market price of petrol, according to data obtained from the Petroleum Products Pricing Regulatory Agency, was around N189 per litre. The agency has not released any data since then.
The Group Managing Director, NNPC, on December 23, 2017, said the Federal Government had been resisting intense pressure to increase the pump price of petrol, noting that the landing cost of the commodity was N171.4 per litre as of December 22, 2017 when oil price was around $64 per barrel.

https://punchng.com/petrol-landing-cost-now-n180-per-litre-says-kachikwu/

next level tinz..anyone who vote Buhari nd shout .God go punish am.. result is coming out.take dis first...

https://www.premiumtimesng.com/features-and-interviews/206453-updated-profiles-of-new-nnpc-board-members-appointed-by-buhari.html

Buhari's daughter is not on NNPC Board. Check that link.

BiafraIsFree:
God punish Nigerian leaders/terrorism government.

Nigeria must fall.

ORACLE1975:
;DLet the landing cost be anything you choose to tell us. Why do we import fuel? . What happened to our refineries?. How much did Nigeria spend in the turn around maintenance of the oil facilities. Your government earlier denied paying for subsidies and later accepted it. That's fraud and corruption. All the nails Goodluck Jonathan received from the APC on these issues, are we better now. The petroleum industry in Nigeria is a big fraud and that's why all bills to tame the tide in the industry has been successful. Fellow countrymen and women arise in furious anger and let's occupy Nigeria now because leprous hands is now manifesting. Enough is enough.

God bless Goodlock Ebele Jonathan

like my warri brother will put it "devil don mess for this country Nigeria. we need to spray His perfume on this country".

Una go suffer. Una never see anything

coolfredo:
how many weeks will it take u to sale one truck of product which is 33000 lits no light we are using gen we pay staff. 145 - 142 = 3 . Then 3 × 33000 lits is how much sir ? I sale one truck in a month sir i use 250 lits of desiel in month at 200 naira per lit sir i pay staff each 15k a month i have 4 of them. Now calculate my profit again for me

Hahaha....ur funny! with that "oya calculate my profit for me...ok let's go!

It takes u one month to sell I tank..? Dt means ur not in a very good location, nevertheless, u may need to rude ur staff by one person since ur traffic is not high...

If u sell 1 tank ( 33,000litrs) in one month...at a unit profit of say 4naira...( remember govt. ask u to sell from 142 to 147..) u could sell at 146... which makes it 4 naira nd not 3naira....with that u make sales of 33000x4 = 132k....

For the total cost...45k ( cost of 3workers) + 63k( cost of 250 litre of diesel * 250 perlite) = 108k...

Then profit is 132- 108 =24k....

Honestly even with my subsidised calculations..the profit is too small.....

U need new strategy..like selling 144....this might shore up up sales revenue nd den increase year profit in the long run

bigpicture001:
Hahaha....ur funny! with that "oya calculate my profit for me...ok let's go!

It takes u one month to sell I tank..? Dt means ur not in a very good location, nevertheless, u may need to rude ur staff by one person since ur traffic is not high...

If u sell 1 tank ( 33,000litrs) in one month...at a unit profit of say 4naira...( remember govt. ask u to sell from 142 to 147..) u could sell at 146... which makes it 4 naira nd not 3naira....with that u make sales of 33000x4 = 132k....

For the total cost...45k ( cost of 3workers) + 63k( cost of 250 litre of diesel * 250 perlite) = 108k...

Then profit is 132- 108 =24k....

Honestly even with my subsidised calculations..the profit is too small.....

U need new strategy..like selling 144....this might shore up up sales revenue nd den increase year profit in the long run

oga leave it that way what u are not into u wont have no knowledge of . Do u know some months gen do break down n u repair it more than ur just calculated profit?. Do u know how much is body parts of an engine? Do u also know that de pump do break down n we repair it more than ur just calculated profit?

If you expect those clowns to give you answers please don't hold your breath.
They are mostly unintelligent and would agree with anything Buhari.
One thing we can all agree on 4 years from now there won't be steady electricity, fuel would be higher, life expectancy lower,
The joke is on the youth.

VolvoS60:
^^^
No sir. I am not part of the problem. I just want a clear, unemotional statement of the facts.

It is clear there is a subsidy on imported petrol and that subsidy must go - it makes no sense for a 3rd world country to import refined petroleum products that are US dollar priced.

What isn't clear is if there is a subsidy on locally refined petrol - you know, the petrol refined in Kaduna, Warri or Port Harcourt from Nigerian crude oil.

I have said nothing about expectations of cheap prices. I just want the facts. If the landing cost of a litre of imported petrol is in the public domain, (accessible at the click of a button) then the cost of a litre of locally refined petrol, diesel or kerosene should also be in the public domain too. I can then draw my own conclusions.

Oh yes indeed it is not the business of governments to build refineries. I wonder what Statoil, Aramco, Petrobras and the others would have to say about that...

sweetilicious:
Profit at 3 naira is so poor.How do you make provisions for depreciation? God help Nigeria.

my dear Nigeria don wowo, instead of de Department of Petroleum Resources to go into de depot to ask them why they are selling it at a higher rate to us more than before they only come to us buying at higher rate n expect us to still sale at 145 per lit

Derajeth:
You're greedy.Is 3 Naira per litre profit not enough?

I wont answer u. Yes i am greedy thanks

Minimum wage! Next Level! Weting I dey think sef. Nija, we done buy market.

ORACLE1975:
The landing cost of Premium Motor Spirit, also known as petrol, is N35 higher than the pump price of N145 per litre, the Minister of State for Petroleum Resources, Dr Ibe Kachikwu, said on Tuesday.
Kachikwu said the rise in global crude oil prices after the 2016 hike in petrol price brought back subsidy.
Recalling the experience of 2016, when the government increased petrol price from N86.5 to N145 after months of severe scarcity, he described fuel subsidy as an emotive issue.

“You have very positive argument that says, ‘Why is this happening; let’s get it out.’ Once you do it, the streets get flooded by protesters. You have five or six or 10 days of no activity in the country. So, any attempt to remove the subsidy must be very well-managed,” the minister said on the NTA Good Morning Nigeria programme, monitored by our correspondent.

He noted that in 2016, the government wrote to the Nigeria Labour Congress and all the trade unions, adding that meetings were held with the security apparatus.
Kachikwu said, “Even when there was a consensus on how we were going to do it, we still had an issue at the very tail end of the moment; NUPENG and PENGASSAN supported but, of course, the other members of the trade unions pulled out.

“Eventually, thankfully, Nigerians saw through what we were trying to do and let it happen. And thank God that happened at the time because when you look at the gap today, the landing cost is about N180 per litre and sale price is N145. Imagine if it (pump price) was N90-something; we will literally be a bankrupt country.”
The minister added, “The point I am making is that anything you are going to do on subsidy requires a very efficient management of information – getting everybody who are stakeholders to tie into it.

“Should we deal with the removal of subsidy? I was gung-ho when I assumed this position that there was no way I was going to tolerate a subsidy regime at the time in 2015 of about N1.2tn-N1.3tn. There was just no way; we didn’t have the capacity to continue to pay.”
“So, I convinced the President that this needed to happen; thankfully, he listened, he agreed and we did. Now, we then had over-recovery period for quite a while and then we went into this upswing in prices that has now taken us again into under-recovery.”
The minister noted that the government had not paid marketers all the outstanding subsidy arrears.He said, “I think, first and foremost, we need to find a way of fixing refineries quickly, whether it is government-funded or whatever – my preference is always private sector funding.

“I think the labour union has never really said they would not be supportive of an attempt to take away this subsidy element; the union has always said, ‘If you are doing it, show me what you [will] do with those new receipts of income. Two, what do you do with the refineries?’ Therefore, we need to address those to even get their buy-in.“Secondly, we need to segregate between those who need subsidy and those who don’t; you will find that 80 per cent or more of those who get subsidy today do not need it. There is nothing necessarily bad with some element of subsidy if it is well-managed and is very little, and if the private sector can take it away completely; that is fantastic. That is the most ideal situation.”
The Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation, which has been the sole importer of petrol into the country for about two years after private oil marketers withdrew from the importation of the product, bears the burden of subsidising the product.
As of March 20, 2018, when the international benchmark price for oil (Brent) was around $66 per barrel, the expected open market price of petrol, according to data obtained from the Petroleum Products Pricing Regulatory Agency, was around N189 per litre. The agency has not released any data since then.
The Group Managing Director, NNPC, on December 23, 2017, said the Federal Government had been resisting intense pressure to increase the pump price of petrol, noting that the landing cost of the commodity was N171.4 per litre as of December 22, 2017 when oil price was around $64 per barrel.

https://punchng.com/petrol-landing-cost-now-n180-per-litre-says-kachikwu/

Hypocritical Apc with quick smooth tongue, buhari has always been shouting on the roof too at various fora that pdp earn so much from oil but looted it,but now they always so quick to give excuses,so what was the landing cost of fuel when the price of crude was above $100/barrel n how much was the amount of subsidy paid per litre to keep the price at #87?, Buhari n his goons will not agree there an unbearable pressure the pdp administration was dealing with but will expect everyone to be a zombie n accept their lies without question.bunch of decietful hypocrites.

Kinikini:
https://www.premiumtimesng.com/features-and-interviews/206453-updated-profiles-of-new-nnpc-board-members-appointed-by-buhari.html

Buhari's daughter is not on NNPC Board. Check that link.

Where is she? And what is she doing?

OgogoroFreak:
Ebele Jonathan was a disaster! Please, don't bring him into this.

So Buhari is better I suppose Suffering and smiling

I always wondered where the money we made from Gas (LNG) was going. N350bill used by NNPC to subsidise PMS. This is systemic failure, worst than bankruptsy.

Now what happened to the money saved when Oil fell to Usd40. and fuel was N140. Why did they not remove subsidy then. I will blame Nnpc for not removing it at that stage. They always thinking about today not tommorow.

N350bill Gas money will build us PPP 7000mw power plant. or build a Gas pipeline to Europe. NNPC is Nigeria's wickest link.

asuustrike1:
So Buhari is better I suppose Suffering and smiling

Buhari is not better. It has always been suffering and smiling in Nigeria. Even fela talk am many years ago.

A failed government is a failed government, period!

VolvoS60:
^^^
No sir. I am not part of the problem. I just want a clear, unemotional statement of the facts.

It is clear there is a subsidy on imported petrol and that subsidy must go - it makes no sense for a 3rd world country to import refined petroleum products that are US dollar priced.

What is wrong if a 3rd world country imports refined petroleum products? Many countries local markets are so small to make a local refinery profitable. Also it may be an area they have no comparative advantage. Refined oil is best bought from mega refineries

What isn't clear is if there is a subsidy on locally refined petrol - you know, the petrol refined in Kaduna, Warri or Port Harcourt from Nigerian crude oil.

There is a subsidy. It's actually cheaper to import fuel as these refineries are antiques and inefficient

I have said nothing about expectations of cheap prices. I just want the facts. If the landing cost of a litre of imported petrol is in the public domain, (accessible at the click of a button) then the cost of a litre of locally refined petrol, diesel or kerosene should also be in the public domain too. I can then draw my own conclusions.

All I know about local refining is that it cost more to refine with these obsolete refineries than to import fuel. Those were the words of Kachikwu. Dangote refinery will save Dangote N26 on every litre it imports. That is the best I can give you.

Oh yes indeed it is not the business of governments to build refineries. I wonder what Statoil, Aramco, Petrobras and the others would have to say about that...

Because so so and so does it does not mean you should.

Benin republic citizens for instance may be demanding fuel subsidy by arguing that the Nigeria government subsidises fuel. The true story is much different as almost all governments have tried removing the subsidy only to back out due to protests and strikes. The government grudgingly subsidises fuel and wish they could be like Benin republic and deregulate the price

Governments are bad managers and most often run companies aground. The only reason why many state owned companies are still functioning are due to the massive subventions that keep them alive.

A year before a mighty Argentine state owned company(I think it's power utility) was privatised, it received the highest subvention from the government. The year after it was privatised, it became the largest tax payer to the government

Statoil I'm sure is well run as its Scandinavian. Aramco I'm sure runs at a loss and its work force most likely bloated. Petrobas is now majority private owned and was privatised to make it efficient and very profitable.

Leave business activities to the private sector

grandstar:
What is wrong if a 3rd world country imports refined petroleum products? Many countries local markets are so small to make a local refinery profitable. Also it may be an area they have no comparative advantage. Refined oil is best bought from mega refineries

^^^
My omission. I meant to say "so-called oil producing, 3rd world country". The inclusion of these words changes everything. Nigeria - a so called OPEC member imports to meet over half of its refined petroleum product needs. It isn't that we are importing crude from other oil producers to blend (in order to meet some environmental requirements for example). No. We are importing refined petroleum products for retail consumers - in those large volumes. It makes no sense whatsoever.

grandstar:
There is a subsidy. It's actually cheaper to import fuel as these refineries are antiques and inefficient

^^^
Sir, I prefer to deal in facts. Not conjecture. I cannot rely on your word (or anyone else's for that matter) that 'there is a subsidy' on locally refined petrol. As I said earlier, if I can get the cost of 1 litre of imported refined PMS at the click of a button, I should be able to do the same for locally refined PMS. Let me have the numbers and I can draw my own conclusions.

grandstar:
All I know about local refining is that it cost more to refine with these obsolete refineries than to import fuel. Those were the words of Kachikwu. Dangote refinery will save Dangote N26 on every litre it imports. That is the best I can give you.

^^^
Again I will say that I am not in the business of speculation. I need the numbers!! Dangote's energy cost profile is useful to him and to him alone. I am interested in how much it costs to refine petroleum products locally - that cost affects the price I should pay if there is domestic refining capacity - and there is. Am I asking too much for this information to be made public?

grandstar:
Because so so and so does it does not mean you should.

Benin republic citizens for instance may be demanding fuel subsidy by arguing that the Nigeria government subsidises fuel. The true story is much different as almost all governments have tried removing the subsidy only to back out due to protests and strikes. The government grudgingly subsidises fuel and wish they could be like Benin republic and deregulate the price

Governments are bad managers and most often run companies aground. The only reason why many state owned companies are still functioning are due to the massive subventions that keep them alive.

A year before a mighty Argentine state owned company(I think it's power utility) was privatised, it received the highest subvention from the government. The year after it was privatised, it became the largest tax payer to the government

Statoil I'm sure is well run as its Scandinavian. Aramco I'm sure runs at a loss and its work force most likely bloated. Petrobas is now majority private owned and was privatised to make it efficient and very profitable.

Leave business activities to the private sector

^^^
I don't understand where Republique du Benin comes into this discussion. Beninoise will demand fuel subsidies because Nigeria subsidizes fuel? How is that linked to our discussion?

You made some sweeping statements about SOEs and I am happy we are now getting into the realm of fact based arguments. You spoke about Statoil and conceded that the Norwegians have been able to get their state owned oil utility to run profitably - because 'they are Scandinavian'. Is the implied racism in your statement lost on you? Do Scandinavians all have two heads each?

You spoke about Aramco. Aramco is Saudi Arabia's state owned oil company. It is wholly owned by the Saudi government and it IS profitable. In fact, contrary to your assertions about it being an overstaffed loss maker, Aramco made $111 billion in 2018, making it more profitable than Apple (the American phone and computer manufacturer). Moody's rated Aramco A1 in 2018. Not bad for a bloated loser.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/01/saudi-aramco-made-111-billion-in-2018-topping-apple-as-the-worlds-most-profitable-company-by-far.html

Rosneft is Russia's second largest oil company. It is 50% owned by the Russian federal government. It IS profitable. Ditto Gazprom. https://www.forbes.com/companies/rosneft/#3a2c802d498d

Petrochina is China's second largest oil company. It is majority owned by the Chinese government and is a CNPC subsidiary. It IS profitable. Ditto Sinopec.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-petrochina-results/petrochina-forecasts-first-half-net-profit-to-more-than-double-highest-since-2015-idUSKBN1KK16D

In my previous posts I stayed clear of the long running ideological arguments about privatization as well as the rationale for SOEs. You chose to bring it up in your post above. According to you, governments are bad managers and business activities should be left to the private sector. While I may agree broadly with the second half of your argument, the first part is blown out of the water by SOEs like Statoil.

There is nothing that inherently makes governments bad managers. Absolutely nothing. Everything hinges on what people demand and expect from their governments. The Scandinavians expect and demand a lot from their leaders and you can see the result in the performance of their oil SOEs. Nigerians expect and demand nothing from their leaders and as such they get nothing.

If Nigerian governments can't manage an SOE (however small), why should they be trusted with a defence budget running into billions? Are the management skill sets that dissimilar? Are you surprised Nigeria can't kit its soldiers and quell a previously low level internal insurgency that has now spiraled out of control? Are you surprised? I am not. You can't excuse government failure in one area and expect stellar results in others.

VolvoS60:
^^^
My omission. I meant to say "so-called oil producing, 3rd world country". The inclusion of these words changes everything. Nigeria - a so called OPEC member imports to meet over half of its refined petroleum product needs. It isn't that we are importing crude from other oil producers to blend (in order to meet some environmental requirements for example). No. We are importing refined petroleum products for retail consumers - in those large volumes. It makes no sense whatsoever.



^^^
Sir, I prefer to deal in facts. Not conjecture. I cannot rely on your word (or anyone else's for that matter) that 'there is a subsidy' on locally refined petrol. As I said earlier, if I can get the cost of 1 litre of imported refined PMS at the click of a button, I should be able to do the same for locally refined PMS. Let me have the numbers and I can draw my own conclusions.



^^^
Again I will say that I am not in the business of speculation. I need the numbers!! Dangote's energy cost profile is useful to him and to him alone. I am interested in how much it costs to refine petroleum products locally - that cost affects the price I should pay if there is domestic refining capacity - and there is. Am I asking too much for this information to be made public?



^^^
I don't understand where Republique du Benin comes into this discussion. Beninoise will demand fuel subsidies because Nigeria subsidizes fuel? How is that linked to our discussion?

You made some sweeping statements about SOEs and I am happy we are now getting into the realm of fact based arguments. You spoke about Statoil and conceded that the Norwegians have been able to get their state owned oil utility to run profitably - because 'they are Scandinavian'. Is the implied racism in your statement lost on you? Do Scandinavians all have two heads each?

You spoke about Aramco. Aramco is Saudi Arabia's state owned oil company. It is wholly owned by the Saudi government and it IS profitable. In fact, contrary to your assertions about it being an overstaffed loss maker, Aramco made $111 billion in 2018, making it more profitable than Apple (the American phone and computer manufacturer). Moody's rated Aramco A1 in 2018. Not bad for a bloated loser.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/01/saudi-aramco-made-111-billion-in-2018-topping-apple-as-the-worlds-most-profitable-company-by-far.html

Rosneft is Russia's second largest oil company. It is 50% owned by the Russian federal government. It IS profitable. Ditto Gazprom. https://www.forbes.com/companies/rosneft/#3a2c802d498d

Petrochina is China's second largest oil company. It is majority owned by the Chinese government and is a CNPC subsidiary. It IS profitable. Ditto Sinopec.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-petrochina-results/petrochina-forecasts-first-half-net-profit-to-more-than-double-highest-since-2015-idUSKBN1KK16D

In my previous posts I stayed clear of the long running ideological arguments about privatization as well as the rationale for SOEs. You chose to bring it up in your post above. According to you, governments are bad managers and business activities should be left to the private sector. While I may agree broadly with the second half of your argument, the first part is blown out of the water by SOEs like Statoil.

There is nothing that inherently makes governments bad managers. Absolutely nothing. Everything hinges on what people demand and expect from their governments. The Scandinavians expect and demand a lot from their leaders and you can see the result in the performance of their oil SOEs. Nigerians expect and demand nothing from their leaders and as such they get nothing.

If Nigerian governments can't manage an SOE (however small), why should they be trusted with a defence budget running into billions? Are the management skill sets that dissimilar? Are you surprised Nigeria can't kit its soldiers and quell a previously low level internal insurgency that has now spiraled out of control? Are you surprised? I am not. You can't excuse government failure in one area and expect stellar results in others.

I'm stopping here. Not going any further

grandstar:
I'm stopping here. Not going any further

Why sir? I was beginning to enjoy our exchange and it has been a learning experience for me. Please come out to play.

VolvoS60:


Why sir? I was beginning to enjoy our exchange and it has been a learning experience for me. Please come out to play.

Okay. I'll get back but later

^^^
My omission. I meant to say "so-called oil producing, 3rd world country". The inclusion of these words changes everything. Nigeria - a so called OPEC member imports to meet over half of its refined petroleum product needs. It isn't that we are importing crude from other oil producers to blend (in order to meet some environmental requirements for example). No. We are importing refined petroleum products for retail consumers - in those large volumes. It makes no sense whatsoever.

What really makes no sense whatsoever is the fuel subsidy. The subsidy has led to the underdevelopment of the downstream sector of the economy. Nobody will like to set up a refinery and sell at government mandated price. Even Dangote has informed the nation that his price will be international market going price. Because there is a subsidy. no one wants to build a refinery hence the need to import refined products

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Sir, I prefer to deal in facts. Not conjecture. I cannot rely on your word (or anyone else's for that matter) that 'there is a subsidy' on locally refined petrol. As I said earlier, if I can get the cost of 1 litre of imported refined PMS at the click of a button, I should be able to do the same for locally refined PMS. Let me have the numbers and I can draw my own conclusions.

I actually deleted some of what I wrote yesterday but now see it is useful

I have no idea about the exact cost of locally refined PMS. I am however confused if it will make any difference

I want to ask you a simple question: why was there no subsidy on PMS when the pump price was increased to 145/litre and why is there need to now subsidize again? The answer to your question lies in how you answer that question

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Again I will say that I am not in the business of speculation. I need the numbers!! Dangote's energy cost profile is useful to him and to him alone. I am interested in how much it costs to refine petroleum products locally - that cost affects the price I should pay if there is domestic refining capacity - and there is. Am I asking too much for this information to be made public?

i have no idea of the cost of refining. You mentioned that affects the price. What do you mean?

Let us say it cost N10 to refine a litre of crude locally.

In 2008 the price of crude oil per barrel was close to $140. By 2009 it had crashed to $35. I want to ask you what difference will the cost of refining at N10 make to the retail pump price?

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I don't understand where Republique du Benin comes into this discussion. Beninoise will demand fuel subsidies because Nigeria subsidizes fuel? How is that linked to our discussion?

Let that pass

You made some sweeping statements about SOEs and I am happy we are now getting into the realm of fact based arguments. You spoke about Statoil and conceded that the Norwegians have been able to get their state owned oil utility to run profitably - because 'they are Scandinavian'. Is the implied racism in your statement lost on you? Do Scandinavians all have two heads each?

You spoke about Aramco. Aramco is Saudi Arabia's state owned oil company. It is wholly owned by the Saudi government and it IS profitable. In fact, contrary to your assertions about it being an overstaffed loss maker, Aramco made $111 billion in 2018, making it more profitable than Apple (the American phone and computer manufacturer). Moody's rated Aramco A1 in 2018. Not bad for a bloated loser.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/01/saudi-aramco-made-111-billion-in-2018-topping-apple-as-the-worlds-most-profitable-company-by-far.html

Rosneft is Russia's second largest oil company. It is 50% owned by the Russian federal government. It IS profitable. Ditto Gazprom. https://www.forbes.com/companies/rosneft/#3a2c802d498d

Petrochina is China's second largest oil company. It is majority owned by the Chinese government and is a CNPC subsidiary. It IS profitable. Ditto Sinopec.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-petrochina-results/petrochina-forecasts-first-half-net-profit-to-more-than-double-highest-since-2015-idUSKBN1KK16D

In my previous posts I stayed clear of the long running ideological arguments about privatization as well as the rationale for SOEs. You chose to bring it up in your post above. According to you, governments are bad managers and business activities should be left to the private sector. While I may agree broadly with the second half of your argument, the first part is blown out of the water by SOEs like Statoil.

There is nothing that inherently makes governments bad managers. Absolutely nothing. Everything hinges on what people demand and expect from their governments. The Scandinavians expect and demand a lot from their leaders and you can see the result in the performance of their oil SOEs. Nigerians expect and demand nothing from their leaders and as such they get nothing.

If Nigerian governments can't manage an SOE (however small), why should they be trusted with a defence budget running into billions? Are the management skill sets that dissimilar? Are you surprised Nigeria can't kit its soldiers and quell a previously low level internal insurgency that has now spiraled out of control? Are you surprised? I am not. You can't excuse government failure in one area and expect stellar results in others.

It isn't implied racism regarding the Scandinavians. I wouldn't say such about the Argentine's who are mostly white.

Because ARAMCO is profitable does not mean all divisions within it are. You can't be selling refined oils below the market determined price and you make a profit. Saudi sold refined oils at heavily subsidised prices until recently. I think it freed the price this year due to the collapse in oil prices since 2014. It needed to cut wasteful spending.

For it to sell refined oil below the market price it will purchase the crude oil below the market value (short changing the upstream sector of ARAMCO)in order to make a "profit". The burden was becoming too costly on the government and that's why they removed the subsidy.

Though you've come up with some impressive figures regarding Petrochina and Rosneft, I don't really trust their accounts and it doesn't change my views about state ownership. Better to err on the side of caution

Despite the praise you have for state owned enterprises, the private sector still beats them. STATOIL is not a big player outside Norway compared to the likes of ExxonMobil or Shell for instance. Despite ARAMCO's size, it is hard to hear of it outside Saudi Arabia. Rosneft has mostly stuck to Russia and it is not a big player outside its country. Only PetroChina has ventured outside quite visibly. Private owned companies are more daring and adventurous.

The fantastically corrupt Nigerian government sucks at managing SOE's and shouldn't be trusted with anything.