CASHCOW247:
I have been having same issue with my 5kva 48v installation. I notice that after about a month of use, one battery of the the 4 batteries I use always get bad (low reading below 10v). I rotate them, replace with a good battery reading 13v and after a month, the same battery position still reads below 10v.

How can I overcome this please...

NB: I use full river 12v-200AH batteries 4 in series. I use a 4kw magnum inverter.

Thanks

Is the battery that goes bad at the negative pole of the inverter? You stated that you replaced with a good battery. Is the replacement new or used? Is your inverter model MS4348PE?
What loads are placed on the inverter in daily use? Do the batteries get fully charged to float daily?

Ativ:


Is the battery that goes bad at the negative pole of the inverter? You stated that you replaced with a good battery. Is the replacement new or used? Is your inverter model MS4348PE?
What loads are placed on the inverter in daily use? Do the batteries get fully charged to float daily?

Yes... The battery is on the negative terminal. The load on the system is within 500w-700w peak. The inverter brand is correct.

The battery may not be charged to float everyday, but it is given a very reasonable charge on days it doesn't go to float


....by replacing with a good battery, I mean rotating the batteries....ie, taking battery 1 to 4 and batt 3 to 2.

earthrealm:


Ehats the make of your inverter?..is it luminous?..or any of these old gen inverters
the old 1.4kva luminous had this notorious problem too. try installing a batt balancer to see if it helps

Thanks for the suggestion ..inverter is a 4kw 48v magna sine inverter

CASHCOW247:


Yes... The battery is on the negative terminal. The load on the system is within 500w-700w peak. The inverter brand is correct.

The battery may not be charged to float everyday, but it is given a very reasonable charge on days it doesn't go to float

It seems your batteries are already sulphated. Adding a new battery will only shorten its life because it will never receive a full charge. My suggestions are to:

- Carry out an energy audit to reduce power consumption and eliminate parasitic loads.
- Ensure your system is set up so that your batteries receive a full charge and get to float daily. This may entail increasing your solar panel array.
- Ensure that the charging parameters of your inverter/cc are in accordance with the battery manufacturer specifications.
- Ensure that your low voltage cutoff is set no lower than 50% SOC level.
- Change all your batteries at the same time using the same brand and batch of a good brand.

Ativ:



It seems your batteries are already sulphated. Adding a new battery will only shorten its life because it will never receive a full charge. My suggestions are to:

- Carry out an energy audit to reduce power consumption and eliminate parasitic loads.
- Ensure your system is set up so that your batteries receive a full charge and get to float daily. This may entail increasing your solar panel array.
- Ensure that the charging parameters of your inverter/cc are in accordance with the battery manufacturer specifications.
- Ensure that your low voltage cutoff is set no lower than 50% SOC level.
- Change all your batteries at the same time using the same brand and batch of a good brand.

Thanks, I'll ask the installer to do this, then I'll get back

mctfopt:


Impressive �

Yes, they have been so far, will definitely recommend

earthrealm:

CC: nomoretrolling

ok, tot as much, cos even ipower has similar infrastructure, have seen all the manuals, but none for gennex, theyare all same then.
i am trying to troubleshoot a setup of 8 batts and 1800w panels, that barely lasts 1hr on 450w load .. terrible
thinking of recommending 8 x 6v 400ah agm batts to owner for replacement, ie after finding the root cause of the catastrophic failure... instead of 8 x 12v 200ah quanta batts,
wetin una think?

8 quanta batteries would be about N1,000,000

You can get two battleborns for that that will outlive and outperform those batteries.

At that price, why would you buy Lead Acid, when you can buy LifePO4 (specifically, not other lithium chemistries)?

I'm selling our used Prag 2.5kva inverter.

N70,000 (25% discount from retail price).

Specs:
24V
3 stage charger, NON-ADJUSTABLE:

absorb: 14.6v per battery; 29.2V
float: 13.8v


Let me know if interested.

Also up for sale - N50,000

24v/48v 40 amp Yohako Mppt Charge controller

Non Programmable

Absorb voltage: 14.4-14.7

float voltage : 13.7

earthrealm:


yeah, thats part of the plan, am even likely gonna suggest a standalone CC, as i saw 1.23kw instantenous harvest from the 1800w array on a cloudy dull day!!!..we all know this is impossible.
will do further extensive checks, now that i have the axpert manual. want to be sure of what exactly killed the bank, so its eliminated b4 laying down cash for new batts, cos even with mixing old and new batts, i dont think the failure should hv been that fast

I am sure the problem is not a panel issue. Remove the old batteries and keep the new and see if it lasts past 1 hour. Is the 450 for 24 hours or a short period of time. Your 450 x 24 is 10800 watt hours. Your pv production can't cover that but it is not the cause of your problems. The manual is pretty simple. You press and hold down the enter button and then you scroll up or down to see the menu and the item you want to change

CASHCOW247:


Yes... The battery is on the negative terminal. The load on the system is within 500w-700w peak. The inverter brand is correct.

The battery may not be charged to float everyday, but it is given a very reasonable charge on days it doesn't go to float


....by replacing with a good battery, I mean rotating the batteries....ie, taking battery 1 to 4 and batt 3 to 2.

Change the battery cable. That has been the culprit when I have had that problem. Build a new cable with a new lug. The battery charges well every where except in one position.

chris81964:


Change the battery cable. That has been the culprit when I have had that problem. Build a new cable with a new lug. The battery charges well every where except in one position.

I'll try that too

Thanks

chris81964:

I am sure the problem is not a panel issue. Remove the old batteries and keep the new and see if it lasts past 1 hour. Is the 450 for 24 hours or a short period of time. Your 450 x 24 is 10800 watt hours. Your pv production can't cover that but it is not the cause of your problems. The manual is pretty simple. You press and hold down the enter button and then you scroll up or down to see the menu and the item you want to change

nope, i meant, a 450w load lasts abt 1hr >2hrs on the bank of 8 batts.
1 of the new batts was reading 7.6v when others were 12.9v, the whole bank is toast, want to select the best 4 batts, and hook them up...observe for a while, be sure of what killed the batts...then advice owner to buy new batts..

NoMoreTrolling:


8 quanta batteries would be about N1,000,000

You can get two battleborns for that that will outlive and outperform those batteries.

At that price, why would you buy Lead Acid, when you can buy LifePO4 (specifically, not other lithium chemistries)?

may have considered that route if it was my own setup, but as it is, not willing to gamble at the moment. lemme stick to the conventional tech. considering the 6v 400ah thundervolts

Dear Sir,

Please I wanted to clarify this assertion of Quanta Lead Acid vs BattleBorn Lithium...

8 units Quanta 200Ah batteries per nameplate is 19.2kwh storage - at 50% DoD you get 9.6kwh effective capacity to use.

The 2 BattleBorn units are what nominal voltage and Ah capacity please? Even if I assume a generous 12v and 200Ah, I do not see how 4.8kwh useable capacity (even at 100% DoD) will outperform a lead acid bank with useable capacity twice the size.

I just want to understand your basis as everytime I do the analysis, Lithium turns out more expensive from an initial outlay point of view

NoMoreTrolling:


8 quanta batteries would be about N1,000,000

You can get two battleborns for that that will outlive and outperform those batteries.

At that price, why would you buy Lead Acid, when you can buy LifePO4 (specifically, not other lithium chemistries)?

earthrealm:


nope, i meant, a 450w load lasts abt 1hr >2hrs on the bank of 8 batts.
1 of the new batts was reading 7.6v when others were 12.9v, the whole bank is toast, want to select the best 4 batts, and hook them up...observe for a while, be sure of what killed the batts...then advice owner to buy new batts..

Possible cause of failure may include:

No 1: Internal resistance issue due to high temperature.

No 2: Too much cycling (repeated charging and discharge over a short period) of the batteries

No 3: Overcharging

No 4: Under charging

No 5: Overdischarging

No 5: Incorrect use of cable size, lugs and connection

No 6: Factory fault.


Almost No 1 to 5 can be controlled. No 6 is one everyone hopes the warranty can cover.

earthrealm:


nope, i meant, a 450w load lasts abt 1hr >2hrs on the bank of 8 batts.
1 of the new batts was reading 7.6v when others were 12.9v, the whole bank is toast, want to select the best 4 batts, and hook them up...observe for a while, be sure of what killed the batts...then advice owner to buy new batts..



may have considered that route if it was my own setup, but as it is, not willing to gamble at the moment. lemme stick to the conventional tech. considering the 6v 400ah thundervolts

I feel you sha on playing it safe, lol

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Dear Sir,

Please I wanted to clarify this assertion of Quanta Lead Acid vs BattleBorn Lithium...

8 units Quanta 200Ah batteries per nameplate is 19.2kwh storage - at 50% DoD you get 9.6kwh effective capacity to use.

The 2 BattleBorn units are what nominal voltage and Ah capacity please? Even if I assume a generous 12v and 200Ah, I do not see how 4.8kwh useable capacity (even at 100% DoD) will outperform a lead acid bank with useable capacity twice the size.

I just want to understand your basis as everytime I do the analysis, Lithium turns out more expensive from an initial outlay point of view

Hey Niyi, hope you're doing well!

Okay, let's play with the numbers:

8 units of quanta at 12v 200ah vs 2 battleborn 24v 50ah units.

QUANTA:
Usable amphour - 200ah (9.6kwh at 50% DOD)
Cycle life - about 500 cycles at 50% DOD (According to quanta datasheet)
Lifetime amphour = 500 cycles x 200amphours = 100,000 amphour

Battleborn:
Usable amphour - 50ah (2.5kwh at 100% DOD)
Cycle life - 3,000 cycles at 100% DOD (According to Battleborn Datasheet)
Lifetime amphour = 3,000 x 50 = 150,000 amphour


As we can see, theoretically, we should get more usable life out of the 2 small 24v 50ah, than the 8 12v 200ah quanta batteries.


Next, we must consider the possibility of failure:

Quanta (Lead Acid):
Failure occurs if the batteries aren't fully recharged often enough due to sulphation. This is more likely if the batteries are out of balance and charge up to varying voltages, likely leading to one or two batteries not getting to full charge.

Leaving batteries partially discharged over a long period of time can also lead to failure.

Obviously, low cell voltage also adversely effects capacity.

Battleborn (LiFePo4)
Irreparable failure can occur if cell voltage gets too low, which is mitigated with the internal BMS shutting off discharge.

Failure can also occur at high voltages, 4.2v per cell, but again, this is mitigated by the internal BMS shutting off charge

...

So in essence, you can leave your lifepo4 batteries at 50% state of charge and not be worried about capacity loss, while with lead acid, YOU MUST get all those batteries to a 100% state of charge as often as possible, else premature failure would occur.


The advantage of the 8 12v quanta batteries in this case vs the small 24v 50ah BB would be the backup time you would get while the quanta batteries are still in good shape. Running a 500 watt load on those 8 batteries, you would get 20 hours of back up time compared to the 5 hours of backup time you would with the 2 BB batteries. However, over the lifetime, the 2 BB batteries would give you more total hours of backup.



Recharge times:
Quanta Lead Acid:
8 12v batteries charging at the recommended C/10 charge rate, 40 amps, would take 10 hours to charge to full from empty or 5 hours to charge from 50% to 100%. This obviously doesn't account for the time you would need to spend in the absorption phase, which for most inverters is about 2 hours, or a factor of how ever long the bulk phase was. So you could be spending 8 hours to get from 50% to 100%, because that absorption phase is extremely important for lead acid.

BattleBorn:
Those 2 little 24v 50ah units can be recharged at C/2 rates and DO NOT NEED AN ABSORPTION PHASE, which means with 25amps, you'll be done charging in just 2 hours. If you don't mind taking a hit with your cycle life, then you can recharge at 1C during an emergency and have that battery full in just 1 hour. So instead of running your gen for 8 hours waiting for your battery to charge, you'd just need about 1 hour 30 mins of gen time to be back for another cycle.


This was just to show that 2 24v 50ah battleborn units can somewhat match the 8 12v 200ah quanta units. Obviously it would be better to have 4 12v 100ah battleborn units for a 48v system than 2 24v 50ah units.

I am doing more research into building lifpo4 packs from cheap cells since Battleborns are very expensive, but I truly believe lifepo4 is the future of solar, at least as the prices keep crashing downward like solar panels, hopefully.

Happy Easter all.
Our Easter Monday present from NEPA.

32kw installation at A Teaching hospital
Midnite solar SPDs earned their keep.
Protected 3 SMA inverters from frying..

Hello NoMoreTrolling,

I agree that Lithium batteries are more economical in the long term than comparable lead acid batteries. Niyi is right when he says lithium is always more expensive than lead acid when considering the initial investment (usually up to 3 times more expensive).

The problem is that you have made a comparism between two products that are not practically equivalent and drawn a misleading conclusion. Stating that 2 no. of 24v 50ah lithium batteries can somewhat match 8 no. 12v 200ah lead acid batteries is wrong.

If I have a load that can be supported within at least 12 hours by the 2.5kwh lithium batteries and I wanted an equivalent lead acid battery, I would get 2 no. 12v 200ah lead acid batteries.

Lithium batteries have many advantages over lead acid batteries but upfront cost is a major disadvantage of lithium especially when you consider the time value of money.

NoMoreTrolling:


Hey Niyi, hope you're doing well!

Okay, let's play with the numbers:

8 units of quanta at 12v 200ah vs 2 battleborn 24v 50ah units.

QUANTA:
Usable amphour - 200ah (9.6kwh at 50% DOD)
Cycle life - about 500 cycles at 50% DOD (According to quanta datasheet)
Lifetime amphour = 500 cycles x 200amphours = 100,000 amphour

Battleborn:
Usable amphour - 50ah (2.5kwh at 100% DOD)
Cycle life - 3,000 cycles at 100% DOD (According to Battleborn Datasheet)
Lifetime amphour = 3,000 x 50 = 150,000 amphour


As we can see, theoretically, we should get more usable life out of the 2 small 24v 50ah, than the 8 12v 200ah quanta batteries.


Next, we must consider the possibility of failure:

Quanta (Lead Acid):
Failure occurs if the batteries aren't fully recharged often enough due to sulphation. This is more likely if the batteries are out of balance and charge up to varying voltages, likely leading to one or two batteries not getting to full charge.

Leaving batteries partially discharged over a long period of time can also lead to failure.

Obviously, low cell voltage also adversely effects capacity.

Battleborn (LiFePo4)
Irreparable failure can occur if cell voltage gets too low, which is mitigated with the internal BMS shutting off discharge.

Failure can also occur at high voltages, 4.2v per cell, but again, this is mitigated by the internal BMS shutting off charge

...

So in essence, you can leave your lifepo4 batteries at 50% state of charge and not be worried about capacity loss, while with lead acid, YOU MUST get all those batteries to a 100% state of charge as often as possible, else premature failure would occur.


The advantage of the 8 12v quanta batteries in this case vs the small 24v 50ah BB would be the backup time you would get while the quanta batteries are still in good shape. Running a 500 watt load on those 8 batteries, you would get 20 hours of back up time compared to the 5 hours of backup time you would with the 2 BB batteries. However, over the lifetime, the 2 BB batteries would give you more total hours of backup.



Recharge times:
Quanta Lead Acid:
8 12v batteries charging at the recommended C/10 charge rate, 40 amps, would take 10 hours to charge to full from empty or 5 hours to charge from 50% to 100%. This obviously doesn't account for the time you would need to spend in the absorption phase, which for most inverters is about 2 hours, or a factor of how ever long the bulk phase was. So you could be spending 8 hours to get from 50% to 100%, because that absorption phase is extremely important for lead acid.

BattleBorn:
Those 2 little 24v 50ah units can be recharged at C/2 rates and DO NOT NEED AN ABSORPTION PHASE, which means with 25amps, you'll be done charging in just 2 hours. If you don't mind taking a hit with your cycle life, then you can recharge at 1C during an emergency and have that battery full in just 1 hour. So instead of running your gen for 8 hours waiting for your battery to charge, you'd just need about 1 hour 30 mins of gen time to be back for another cycle.


This was just to show that 2 24v 50ah battleborn units can somewhat match the 8 12v 200ah quanta units. Obviously it would be better to have 4 12v 100ah battleborn units for a 48v system than 2 24v 50ah units.

I am doing more research into building lifpo4 packs from cheap cells since Battleborns are very expensive, but I truly believe lifepo4 is the future of solar, at least as the prices keep crashing downward like solar panels, hopefully.

hisenjos:
Happy Easter all.
Our Easter Monday present from NEPA.

Hahaha..omo nepa dey craze...they probablly switched neutral and live wire..they hv done that to me several times..and my A&E stab blocked them from entering..

Meanwhile, the output cables from your stab appears small...like 2.5mm...would recommend you upgrade to 10mm or 6mm worst case

@nomoretrolling.
Very detailed analysis, but flawed.compare apples for apples..ie its best comparing 2 x 12v x 100ah battle borns vs 8 x 12v x 200ah quanta ...assume parallel connections to reduce the error and make it simpler

Flex max 80a fangpusun 150k
Flex max 60a fangpusun 130k
50a-12/24v 45k. 47k without display
50aD-12/24v 60k with display
60a-12/24v/36v/48v 100k. without display
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70a-12/24v/36v/48v 110k without display
70a-12/24v/36v/48v 125k with display
45a-12/24v/36v/48v 70k without display
45a-12/24v/36v/48v 85k with display
30a-12/24v 33k
tristar 60a 12/24/36/48v 230k
96v/60a pwm 90k
Emart 3 12/24/36/48v 80k
Battery balancer HAO2 28k 12v/24v/48v
MPPT- CONTROL 15K
BMV 702 FANGPUSUN 42K
Watts meter with clock and 50Hz/60Hz
Monitor Analyser 7k
SPD dc 600v 15k
SPD ac 385v 10k
Voltage protector and load limiter 63a 10k
PROGRAMMABLE Digital timer 15/16a 5k din rail
PROGRAMMABLE Digital timer 25a 7k din rail/wall mount
Ac/dc ceiling fan 56’ inches 5w to 36w

Solar water heater hybrid 200L 230k
Solar water heater 200L 210k

Fangpusun XTM with remote control 3.5kw/48v inverter 450k

080-987-337-09
discount for bulk buyers

Wazari:
Hello NoMoreTrolling,

I agree that Lithium batteries are more economical in the long term than comparable lead acid batteries. Niyi is right when he says lithium is always more expensive than lead acid when considering the initial investment (usually up to 3 times more expensive).

The problem is that you have made a comparism between two products that are not practically equivalent and drawn a misleading conclusion. Stating that 2 no. of 24v 50ah lithium batteries can somewhat match 8 no. 12v 200ah lead acid batteries is wrong.

If I have a load that can be supported within at least 12 hours by the 2.5kwh lithium batteries and I wanted an equivalent lead acid battery, I would get 2 no. 12v 200ah lead acid batteries.

Lithium batteries have many advantages over lead acid batteries but upfront cost is a major disadvantage of lithium especially when you consider the time value of money.

True, the upfront cost is there, but it's like comparing the upfront cost of solar panels to power a 1kw load 24/7, vs that of a petrol gen.

The petrol gen would be cheaper to buy upfront and run, but would become more expensive by year 2 and get even more expensive with each ongoing year, i.e year 3, year 4, year 5, year 6 and so on. Meanwhile the solar system would cost about 10 times the cost of the genset, but would already be cheaper by year 2, year 3, 4, 5 and so on.

So I guess it just depends on budgets and short/long term factors.

I brought up the comparison because of the budget allocation for the purchase of lead acid batteries. I just feel, in that price segment, lifepo4 would be a better option.

However, if one is constrained by budget and needs power NOW, then lead acid is still a fantastic option.

earthrealm:
@nomoretrolling.
Very detailed analysis, but flawed.compare apples for apples..ie its best comparing 2 x 12v x 100ah battle borns vs 8 x 12v x 200ah quanta ...assume parallel connections to reduce the error and make it simpler

2 12v 100ah battleborns have the same equivalent energy as 2 24v 50ah batteries, 1250watthours.

I used the 2 24v batteries in that example, because it's the cheapest battleborn configuration to power a 48v inverter system.

They sell 24v 50ah batteries as well as 12v 100ah batteries. If you were to use 4 12v 100ah BB batteries, then they would really outperform those 8 quantas by a wider margin.

NoMoreTrolling:


Hey Niyi, hope you're doing well!

Okay, let's play with the numbers:

8 units of quanta at 12v 200ah vs 2 battleborn 24v 50ah units.

QUANTA:
Usable amphour - 200ah (9.6kwh at 50% DOD)
Cycle life - about 500 cycles at 50% DOD (According to quanta datasheet)
Lifetime amphour = 500 cycles x 200amphours = 100,000 amphour

Battleborn:
Usable amphour - 50ah (2.5kwh at 100% DOD)
Cycle life - 3,000 cycles at 100% DOD (According to Battleborn Datasheet)
Lifetime amphour = 3,000 x 50 = 150,000 amphour


As we can see, theoretically, we should get more usable life out of the 2 small 24v 50ah, than the 8 12v 200ah quanta batteries.


Next, we must consider the possibility of failure:

Quanta (Lead Acid):
Failure occurs if the batteries aren't fully recharged often enough due to sulphation. This is more likely if the batteries are out of balance and charge up to varying voltages, likely leading to one or two batteries not getting to full charge.

Leaving batteries partially discharged over a long period of time can also lead to failure.

Obviously, low cell voltage also adversely effects capacity.

Battleborn (LiFePo4)
Irreparable failure can occur if cell voltage gets too low, which is mitigated with the internal BMS shutting off discharge.

Failure can also occur at high voltages, 4.2v per cell, but again, this is mitigated by the internal BMS shutting off charge

...

So in essence, you can leave your lifepo4 batteries at 50% state of charge and not be worried about capacity loss, while with lead acid, YOU MUST get all those batteries to a 100% state of charge as often as possible, else premature failure would occur.


The advantage of the 8 12v quanta batteries in this case vs the small 24v 50ah BB would be the backup time you would get while the quanta batteries are still in good shape. Running a 500 watt load on those 8 batteries, you would get 20 hours of back up time compared to the 5 hours of backup time you would with the 2 BB batteries. However, over the lifetime, the 2 BB batteries would give you more total hours of backup.



Recharge times:
Quanta Lead Acid:
8 12v batteries charging at the recommended C/10 charge rate, 40 amps, would take 10 hours to charge to full from empty or 5 hours to charge from 50% to 100%. This obviously doesn't account for the time you would need to spend in the absorption phase, which for most inverters is about 2 hours, or a factor of how ever long the bulk phase was. So you could be spending 8 hours to get from 50% to 100%, because that absorption phase is extremely important for lead acid.

BattleBorn:
Those 2 little 24v 50ah units can be recharged at C/2 rates and DO NOT NEED AN ABSORPTION PHASE, which means with 25amps, you'll be done charging in just 2 hours. If you don't mind taking a hit with your cycle life, then you can recharge at 1C during an emergency and have that battery full in just 1 hour. So instead of running your gen for 8 hours waiting for your battery to charge, you'd just need about 1 hour 30 mins of gen time to be back for another cycle.


This was just to show that 2 24v 50ah battleborn units can somewhat match the 8 12v 200ah quanta units. Obviously it would be better to have 4 12v 100ah battleborn units for a 48v system than 2 24v 50ah units.

I am doing more research into building lifpo4 packs from cheap cells since Battleborns are very expensive, but I truly believe lifepo4 is the future of solar, at least as the prices keep crashing downward like solar panels, hopefully.

I have a lot of laptop batteries with different issues for sale very cheap if it would be useful in your research.

NoMoreTrolling:


True, the upfront cost is there, but it's like comparing the upfront cost of solar panels to power a 1kw load 24/7, vs that of a petrol gen.

The petrol gen would be cheaper to buy upfront and run, but would become more expensive by year 2 and get even more expensive with each ongoing year, i.e year 3, year 4, year 5, year 6 and so on. Meanwhile the solar system would cost about 10 times the cost of the genset, but would already be cheaper by year 2, year 3, 4, 5 and so on.

So I guess it just depends on budgets and short/long term factors.

I brought up the comparison because of the budget allocation for the purchase of lead acid batteries. I just feel, in that price segment, lifepo4 would be a better option.

However, if one is constrained by budget and needs power NOW, then lead acid is still a fantastic option.

Nice comparison.. thumbs up.

Same way the Initial cost of Inverter + solar + batteries is expensive than Generators+ fuel + disappointment+ maintenance, so is Lifepo4 Vs Lead acid batteries

At the end Budget will determine the choice. Some use Canadian solar, some use Chinese solar

Please contact us on 08066332919 for your Industrial Power Equipment

NoMoreTrolling:


2 12v 100ah battleborns have the same equivalent energy as 2 24v 50ah batteries, 1250watthours.

I used the 2 24v batteries in that example, because it's the cheapest battleborn configuration to power a 48v inverter system.

They sell 24v 50ah batteries as well as 12v 100ah batteries. If you were to use 4 12v 100ah BB batteries, then they would really outperform those 8 quantas by a wider margin.

see what am saying here, you said the AH in 8 units 12V 200ah quanta battery is 200AH, this is wrong

QUANTA:
Usable amphour - 200ah (9.6kwh at 50% DOD)
Cycle life - about 500 cycles at 50% DOD (According to quanta datasheet)
Lifetime amphour = 500 cycles x 200amphours = 100,000 amphour

Battleborn:
Usable amphour - 50ah (2.5kwh at 100% DOD)
Cycle life - 3,000 cycles at 100% DOD (According to Battleborn Datasheet)
Lifetime amphour = 3,000 x 50 = 150,000 amphour

lemme do it like this for a 24v system
2 x 12v x 200ah quanta vs 2x 12v x 100ah lipo4
200AH X 500 CYCLES = 100,000AH over its lifecycle cost 240k
100AH X 3000 CYCLES = 300,000AH Over its lifecycle cost 800k

you can see that the battleborn only beat the quanta x3 in terms of AH, but in terms of cost. it evens out again about 3.15x
so theoritically, one would have changed his quanta 3x, and still be at par with the lipo4 battleborns......

lastly if a bank is sized properly, it may take 10yrs for the quanta to hit 500 cycles...georged1 is a living example, his bank is 5yrs abi 7yrs and counting... so to me the only advantage the lipo4 has is the 100% DOD, and with the hefty price point, i would rather oversize my bank, than cough out the enormous sums involved in the Lipo4, Renewable energy is sweet, but at a point, if the cost outstrips utility, it becomes useless, thats why i would rather keep a meduim sized gen to top up my bank on the few days in the year where the bank dips below 50% dod...than expend funds trying to oversize my array or battery bank

I admire the LIPO4 battery, but till the prices get more pocket friendly, would they give the conventional lead acid battery a run for their money

I need a Victron BMV-712 with ve.direct USB cable. I live in Ibadan.

Let us do this analysis differently using properly matched items.

The requirement is to power a 500watt load for 20hours and to keep things simple I have assumed any battery type can be fully recharged instantaneously without caring about how practical this is

To power my load, I can choose between

A) 8 Quanta 12v 200Ah Batteries (Useable 9.6kwh @ 50% DoD) costs NGN960K

B) 9 BattleBorn 12v 100Ah Batteries (Useable 9.6kwh @ 90% DoD) costs at least NGN3.8Million.

We need to be very careful here as one cannot use less than the stated number of batteries to power the stated load for the stated time

From here on I will just be saying Quanta vs BattleBorn for the specs above.

Quanta gives at least 700-750 cycles at 50% DoD based on empirical evidence vs BattleBorn 3,000 cycles. I will take 2 years & 730 cycles as a midpoint for Quanta performance and 3,000 cycles for BattleBorn.

If both batteries hold up, every 2 years I buy new Quanta batteries - 960K * 5 = NGN4.8Million over a 10 year period and over a 10 year period, I would have spent a prorated NGN4.6Million on BattleBorn batteries.

While the advantage is to BattleBorn, it is a rather close call and a few hard questions come to mind.

1) Would I rather spend 960K for Quanta today and replace every 2 years (assume inflation is zero) or would I rather sink NGN3.5Million in Battleborn and rest for 8 years?

2) Can I guarantee for sure that BattleBorn will give me 8 years service if I daily flog it to 90% DoD)? - we seek reviews regularly from Lithium users and they appear no better than Lead Acid so far - the common theme is failure/damage due to overcharge, overdischarge, over temperature and various other failure modes as the users and installers come to a full grasp of this new technology - it appears everyone is still learning Lithium and killing their Lithium banks prematurely seems to be a key part of the learning process

3) Standing where I am today, can I lock down my 10 year forward power needs and know that these BattleBorns I invested in will meet my power demand in 5 years time? I know I can easily upgrade every two years with Quanta.

4) On those days when I have peak demand, I can flog my Quanta and take them to 80% DoD - my expensive BattleBorns would have been fully spent and no extra power to draw out of them.

All the above assumptions can be flexed as you are inclined - people like Oga Dapsyra can tell us if his LTO batteries have maintained capacity with daily flogging to like 80% DoD and no decline whatsoever in performance.

NoMoreTrolling:


2 12v 100ah battleborns have the same equivalent energy as 2 24v 50ah batteries, 1250watthours.

I used the 2 24v batteries in that example, because it's the cheapest battleborn configuration to power a 48v inverter system.

They sell 24v 50ah batteries as well as 12v 100ah batteries. If you were to use 4 12v 100ah BB batteries, then they would really outperform those 8 quantas by a wider margin.

Many thanks for this. You have captured succintly what I labored vainly in so many words to explain.

earthrealm:


see what am saying here, you said the AH in 8 units 12V 200ah quanta battery is 200AH, this is wrong



lemme do it like this for a 24v system
2 x 12v x 200ah quanta vs 2x 12v x 100ah lipo4
200AH X 500 CYCLES = 100,000AH over its lifecycle cost 240k
100AH X 3000 CYCLES = 300,000AH Over its lifecycle cost 800k

you can see that the battleborn only beat the quanta x3 in terms of AH, but in terms of cost. it evens out again about 3.15x
so theoritically, one would have changed his quanta 3x, and still be at par with the lipo4 battleborns......

lastly if a bank is sized properly, it may take 10yrs for the quanta to hit 500 cycles...georged1 is a living example, so to me the only advantage the lipo4 has is the 100 DOD, and with the hefty price point, i would rather oversize my bank, than cough out the enourmous sums involved in the Lipo4, Renewable energy is sweet, but at a point, if the cost outstrips utility, it becomes useless, thats why i would rather keep a meduim sized gen to top up my bank on the few days in the year where the bank dips below 50% dod...than expend funds trying to oversize my array or battery bank

I admire the LIPO4 battery, but till the prices get more pocket friendly, would they give the convention lead acid battery a run for their money