₦airaland Forum

ledamaster:
so because they are church goers they dont have the right to live? you are a shame to chritiandom. who are you tobjidge who is the true servant of God? Where in the Holy Bible did you see only Deeper life members and not Catholics, COCIN or Ekwa that will make heaven or true servant of God? Where was Kumuyi when the insults on Yar Adua and Goodluck was happening? The man that once claimed watching T.V even owning one was a great sin? but now it is not? The Bible says be mindful of the counsel of the foolish. It also says be careful when evil mean hail you. Who are the onces supporting Kumuyi mainly on this platform? fantics. Mbaka was their hero until he called Buhari to stop the killings of catholics in plateua. These are the people hailing Kumuyi, the willing tolls the devik uses in the body of christ to decimate christians. Shame on you.

You can insult as you want but that doesn't change my stand. You should understand that after Mbaka said what he said, the killing did not stop. Now that you just choose to be accusing the man of God for not calling out the president. Meanwhile the message is meant for Believers and it was preached in the church for people willing to obey the word of God. So someone bringing your notice to this few part of the message and you capitalizing on this not stopping at any length to insult the man of God shows great dishonor to Him and it dishonours God

sweetrace:
The word of God transcends time. The President is the number one citizen of any country just like the biblical kings were. Plus the Bible enjoins us to pray for our leaders. Is the president not Nigerians number one leader? Plus, While it is okay to criticize constituted authority, said criticism should be constructive. What we have in Nigeria is people drowning the authority with insults without wanting to see any good in any action of theirs Such that the authority gets to the point that they are not interested in listening to a people who seem incapable of offering anything other than insults.

Can u pls name one country in d world that made progress because they were praying 4 their corrupt leaders? As a Nigerian, do u no d relationship u have with ur elected representatives?

Solstice:
If you were opportuned to attend the service, you would have been enlightened from the Infallible Word of God. The message was based on I Peter 2: 11- the end. Read it personally and I pray that the Holy Spirit will minister unto you. There you will understand that no one is being misled here if you doubtlessly believe the 'Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth' Bible. Unless you choose to give it another interpretation but that does not change the standard or truth of the Word of God.

Pls read d following and let d Holy spirit minister unto u. Maybe they aren't part of ur Bible but am sure they help u:

Psalms 82:3-4
Proverbs 29:2
Ephesians 5:11
Proverbs 31:9

lexy2014:
That means Elijah should have left Ahab & Jezebel alone. Samuel should have left Saul alone

if you read the Bible well you will know how Samuel cried and prayed to God.. For Saul. But God himself told him. His glory has departed from saul

monerozi5590:
So because he visited Buhari he should not laugh. Nonsense.

That kind of laughter when you get alert.
Fake MOGs scamming the gullible from time immemorial.

borngeologist:
if you read the Bible well you will know how Samuel cried and prayed to God.. For Saul. But God himself told him. His glory has departed from saul

Does that mean that Samuel didn't criticise Saul? B4 he cried and prayed 2 God for Saul, what did he do 2 Saul?

SOFTENGR:
What about that loud laughs?
When a man laughs, you know Na.

Hmmm are u trying to say that he should have squezed his face as he visited President Buhari..you will do same if u have the opportunity to visit the president.. no matter the strong dislike u feel u have for him..

lexy2014:
Can u pls name one country in d world that made progress because they were praying 4 their corrupt leaders? As a Nigerian, do u no d relationship u have with ur elected representatives?

Inasmuch as I can't point to any country that prayed to bring the country out of the quagmire of corruption, compare what you have been doing all these while to curb corruption to the result so far, is it any better?
The media keep talking and backing there claims with facts, yet things still don't get better but worse. Do you have to keep doing things the same way and expect a different result?

Having said all these, Nigeria is a peculiar Nation, the state of the nation is regrettable. It is already in a precarious condition with grave consequences yet no sign of improvement. The country is in dire need of a reformation. Some people want separation and I don't blame them as I desire same. When there is prayer that God should keep the country as one, it is hard for me to pray such. I will rather say let the will of God be done.

It will be helpful to know that out dear country is under siege from internal and external forces. The morals is all time low. We all need total heart change. Forces from within and without keep giving power to those that will never strive for the betterment of the masses. If you continue with media crusade, worst will come still and our coming generation will face even greater problems.

An average Nigeria when given opportunity to rule will use every means to enrich himself and impoverish the nation. With God that I believe, prayer in the name of Jesus, things can change in this country. Take it or leave it, you can do nothing to change this country by criticizing or accusing, taking your guns self will not save you if you have one. Only prayer from a sincere and clean hand will get this nation up. But don't stop at criticism, ensure you pray for this country.

You can contribute constructive criticism to anything but not insults.

wealth25:
Hmmm are u trying to say that he should have squezed his face as he visited President Buhari..you will do same if u have the opportunity to visit the president.. no matter the strong dislike u feel u have for him..

I don't dislike Buhari. He's the President of Nigeria and I would also laugh loud if I visit him.
Make I hear say I no smile come out. Do you know what it means to be told by the no.1 citizen: "I have one ghana-must-go for you"? I will laugh till I get to the bank. I'm just being human.

Solstice:
Inasmuch as I can't point to any country that prayed to bring the country out of the quagmire of corruption, compare what you have been doing all these while to curb corruption to the result so far, is it any better?
The media keep talking and backing there claims with facts, yet things still don't get better but worse. Do you have to keep doing things the same way and expect a different result?

Having said all these, Nigeria is a peculiar Nation, the state of the nation is regrettable. It is already in a precarious condition with grave consequences yet no sign of improvement. The country is in dire need of a reformation. Some people want separation and I don't blame them as I desire same. When there is prayer that God should keep the country as one, it is hard for me to pray such. I will rather say let the will of God be done.

It will be helpful to know that out dear country is under siege from internal and external forces. The morals is all time low. We all need total heart change. Forces from within and without keep giving power to those that will never strive for the betterment of the masses. If you continue with media crusade, worst will come still and our coming generation will face even greater problems.

An average Nigeria when given opportunity to rule will use every means to enrich himself and impoverish the nation. With God that I believe, prayer in the name of Jesus, things can change in this country. Take it or leave it, you can do nothing to change this country by criticizing or accusing, taking your guns self will not save you if you have one. Only prayer from a sincere and clean hand will get this nation up. But don't stop at criticism, ensure you pray for this country.

You can contribute constructive criticism to anything but not insults.

It's funny u said this

Solstice:
Only prayer from a sincere and clean hand will get this nation up. But don't stop at criticism, ensure you pray for this country.

But at d same time

Solstice:
I can't point to any country that prayed to bring the country out of the quagmire of corruption,

But then u believe that

Solstice:
Do you have to keep doing things the same way and expect a different result?

U are praying yet u can't show d results of ur prayer. U are praying and u can't name one country out of d over 180 countries in d world "that prayed to bring their country out of the quagmire of corruption". But yet u ask "Do you have to keep doing things the same way and expect a different result?"

How do u expect 2 get a different result when even u are doing d same thing, d same over and over again? U feel criticism doesn't produce results but yet u can't show how ur prayers have produced results

Do u no d r/ship u have with ur elected representatives?

Pls read this below

lexy2014:
Pls read d following and let d Holy spirit minister unto u. Maybe they aren't part of ur Bible but am sure they help u:

Psalms 82:3-4
Proverbs 29:2
Ephesians 5:11
Proverbs 31:9

I am a believer of the Bible. You have quoted the the Bible rightly, but I want to add that as you read the Bible and ensure you are balanced in the application of God's word. You might need to hear the message the man of God preached at Indepence Ceremony. It was a lot if they will heed it. As you criticize, don't abuse and pray for God's guidance for them. It is pertinent. May God help us

lexy2014:
It's funny u said this



But at d same time



But then u believe that



U are praying yet u can't show d results of ur prayer. U are praying and u can't name one country out of d over 180 countries in d world "that prayed to bring their country out of the quagmire of corruption". But yet u ask "Do you have to keep doing things the same way and expect a different result?"

How do u expect 2 get a different result when even u are doing d same thing, d same over and over again? U feel criticism doesn't produce results but yet u can't show how ur prayers have produced results

Do u no d r/ship u have with ur elected representatives?

Pls read this below

Those examples are in the Bible and someone has said something on that. I believe because if not for God in my life, I can't be where I am today.

Solstice:
I am a believer of the Bible. You have quoted the the Bible rightly, but I want to add that as you read the Bible and ensure you are balanced in the application of God's word. You might need to hear the message the man of God preached at Indepence Ceremony. It was a lot if they will heed it. As you criticize, don't abuse and pray for God's guidance for them. It is pertinent. May God help us

U keep saying pray for Gods guidance for our elected representatives yet u haven't been able to tell me or show me how prayer has worked in providing them d guidance that u say they need.

What is ur relationship as a citizen with ur elected representatives?

Solstice:
Those examples are in the Bible and someone has said something on that. I believe because if not for God in my life, I can't be where I am today.

Which examples are in d bible? Pls share them. What has ur testimony of God in ur life got 2do with what we are discussing?

SOFTENGR:
I don't dislike Buhari. He's the President of Nigeria and I would also laugh loud if I visit him.
Make I hear say I no smile come out. Do you know what it means to be told by the no.1 citizen: "I have one ghana-must-go for you"? I will laugh till I get to the bank. I'm just being human.

Hahahaha funny u

obailala:
Nobody is asking or stopping you from insulting leaders as you like. The preacher simply just told you what's in the bible; if you feel bad about it, direct this your question to God.

We are talking about criticizing here,even in the bible when leaders were nor doing well they were being criticized talk less of a leader that is backing Fulani herdmen to kill Christians by giving them 100 billion and radio station

The Pastor is speaking from religious perspective Shehu is speaking from Democracy perspective

timota:
We are talking about criticizing here,even in the bible when leaders were nor doing well they were being criticized talk less of a leader that is backing Fulani herdmen to kill Christians by giving them 100 billion and radio station

Nothing wrong with criticising, but there's a difference between criticising and attacking with outright insults; I believe the preacher was referring to the latter. And to add to that, the preacher was speaking from the religious perspective; democratically, there's no law stopping anyone from insulting any leader as much as they like if it makes them feel better.

Some of this our religious leather are the biggest problems we are facing as a country,. So when the country is not going well the should folds their hand and be praying for miracles that will never come through baby abeg let us talk our mind

[s]

Jephyard:
Any pastor that is not for the people forget it nah scam. It amazing how all these pastors turn a blind eye to what is happening to in this country. They have travel far and wide and see how good it is to have good country unlike ours that is so behind in everything. Kumuyi is human, he is fallible like every other person, respect or not, called or not, the moment you see nothing wrong in this government and the moment you start telling people to stop talking either constructively or not is also in support of the evil affecting the masses. A wise man once said All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke). And one said pray! Prayer without working is death on arrival. Simply Kumiyi is an enemy of the people and enemy of the people is an enemy to God[/s]

You are very stupid. Jesus was considered an enemy of his people because he was not telling them what they wanted to hear.

lexy2014:
Can u pls name one country in d world that made progress because they were praying 4 their corrupt leaders? As a Nigerian, do u no d relationship u have with ur elected representatives?

Praying for leaders is the only part you read, right? You did not see where I wrote that leaders should be criticized, but constructively. Who would you take seriously? A person who constantly berates you and every single effort you make or a person who’ll tell you what you’re doing right, what you’re doing wrong and how to improve on that without attacking your person verbally?

Johnsghana:
How did we get here?

How did we become a nation of people who cannot express themselves or disagree without resorting to insults and invectives?

Kumuyi is simply saying, talk, but avoid demeaning and debasing public officials. We are setting bad precedents for unborn generations of this nation.

Even Nairaland requires you under the posting rules to complain against moderators with sense.

*20. Complaints to or against moderators must be sent privately. Please don't disobey, disrespect, or defame them.

I am seriously afraid for the future of this country!

Hi, i don't like it when we try to revise what the g.s bluntly said. Note, he didn't say "talk but avoid insults", he only used the word ATTACK, which had me asking a long time worker after the service if we are to keep quiet in the face of CLEAR injustice, to which he didn't give a definite answer.

sweetrace:
Praying for leaders is the only part you read, right? You did not see where I wrote that leaders should be criticized, but constructively. Who would you take seriously? A person who constantly berates you and every single effort you make or a person who’ll tell you what you’re doing right, what you’re doing wrong and how to improve on that without attacking your person verbally?

If u are confident of what u said, y do u now feel offended that it was d only part of ur comment that I read? If I didn't distort or misinterpret what u said, I clearly don't c what ur grouse is about. If u believe what u wrote, then u should b ready 2 defend it. Clearly, u don't. U can prove me wrong by telling me any country that made progress by praying 4 its leaders. Its that simple.

Based on what u have said about berating and not berating, do u no d relationship u have with ur elected representatives?

lexy2014:
If u are confident of what u said, y do u now feel offended that it was d only part of ur comment that I read? If I didn't distort or misinterpret what u said, I clearly don't c what ur grouse is about. If u believe what u wrote, then u should b ready 2 defend it. Clearly, u don't. U can prove me wrong by telling me any country that made progress by praying 4 its leaders. Its that simple.

Based on what u have said about berating and not berating, do u no d relationship u have with ur elected representatives?

I’ve tried to have a rational conversation with you, but it is obviously not possible so ......

sweetrace:
I’ve tried to have a rational conversation with you, but it is obviously not possible so ......

What is irrational about d conversation we just had? What is irrational about u telling me d country where u have seen them making progress by praying 4 their leaders? What is irrational about u telling me d relationship u have with ur elected representatives? If u don't no, simply say u don't no. Ignorance isn't a crime

These fake pastors sef.

GreatestA1:
This is where I think you missed the point being made out. Kumuyi used the word "Attack" not "criticize" as against your misunderstanding. He didn't say don't "criticize!" He said don't attack!

Let's run a dictionary commentary on both words and the phrase(speak evil of)

What does it mean to attack someone?

According to the English Dictionary extracted from Wiktionary. org.

Attack means

"An attempt to detract from the worth or credibility of, a person, position, idea, object, or thing, by physical, verbal, emotional, or other assault."

What does it mean to speak evil of a leader? It means to detract from the worth of leader and bring down his position to a piece of bread vide verbal assault.

To attack and to speak evil of mean quite the same thing as they both make a leader seem worthless. That's what the Bible is against pursuant to 2 peter 2:10-12.

Now what does it mean to criticise?

"To evaluate (something), and judge its merits and faults; to find fault". It's crystal enough that criticism/finding fault is different from attack/speak evil of.


If I say the government's/president's action with respect to a particular subject is bad, I am criticising.

But if I say the President is stupid, an illiterate, baba go slow, evil etc, I am attacking and speaking evil of.

Please get the difference and edit your response.

Hey bro. U did a good job by defining those words. Back to "attacking" again. Your definition says something about reducing or removing CREDIBILITY of somebody or something.
So if hitherto, we all believe buhari to be a detribalized Nigerian with national interest at heart(assumed CREDIBILITY), and he afterwards starts appointing majorly his "clan's men" into all sensitive government positions and instituting moves that clearly shows that others are being shortchanged. Then i point it out for all to see that his so called CREDIBILITY is suspect. have i attacked him or criticised him? Pls revisit ur definitions and conclusions before answering.

Joefirst:
Jesuuuus!!!
If you no fear media, you try...

Am a member of deeper life and a huge critic of government Activities.

I was at the service and what he said is " do not attack leaders UNREASONABLY"

He did even mention the name of any politician

Broda bro! Fear God. He didn't use that word, his words were clear, stop revising what the g.s said. I was there too.

obailala:
Oga, in the last 11 years that I've been active on this forum, Ive never in my life stated I am from anywhere else; and I wouldnt do that today over the nudgings of some silly tribalists whose brains cant reason beyond tribe in every single thing they do or say. If you're confusing me with someone else, that's your cup of tea.

Yeepa! Bros, u wicked O!

Reference:
Since everyone appears churchy and biblically scholarly let me chip in my view from another perspective.

The read from Proverbs 29:2 - Contemporary English Version of the Bible is pretty apt in describing the situation and is very instructive to both sides of the argument. It says:

'...when justice rules a nation, everyone is glad, when injustice rules, everyone groans...'

I like this version because it is not personal political. It does not describe a person, rather it speaks of a system, it speaks of what should be happening to either cause 'gladness' or 'groans'. It speaks of why the rich man cannot sleep with two eyes closed on accout of the vexation of the poor. It speaks of why insurgencies spring up here and there. It speaks of why crime is getting rampant, why suicides escalate.

So Mr. Kumuyi or Shehu Sani can decide to personalize it if they choose but the truth is clear, God will not force any quality on leadership. His primary interests remain His constituency, His people and their salvation. If any desires to aspire to leadership in any earthly setting be it government, politics or even church administration and cannot turn the wheel of authority towards justice and equity, then he is bound to experience not gladness of the people but groaning.

The summary of this is stark. If Nigeria was better run, Nigerians will be glad. Mr. Kumuyi cannot legislate otherwise.

By the way there are interesting synonyms related to the word 'groan'. Here are some: 'cry, sob, tears, agonizing, grieving, mourning, sorrowing, suffering, weeping, hand-wringing, regret, complaint, outcry, protest, anguish, grief, heartache, heart break, sorrow, woe...' courtesy of Merriam Webster.

These are the products of injustice on a people by their leaders. Does that exemplify Nigeria now or not.

God bless you bro, SPOT ON.

We should all become mumu and be treated like mumu just because we are Christians eh, oga G.O tell us what you collected from asorock the last time you visited.

Solstice:
Inasmuch as I can't point to any country that prayed to bring the country out of the quagmire of corruption, compare what you have been doing all these while to curb corruption to the result so far, is it any better?
The media keep talking and backing there claims with facts, yet things still don't get better but worse. Do you have to keep doing things the same way and expect a different result?

Having said all these, Nigeria is a peculiar Nation, the state of the nation is regrettable. It is already in a precarious condition with grave consequences yet no sign of improvement. The country is in dire need of a reformation. Some people want separation and I don't blame them as I desire same. When there is prayer that God should keep the country as one, it is hard for me to pray such. I will rather say let the will of God be done.

It will be helpful to know that out dear country is under siege from internal and external forces. The morals is all time low. We all need total heart change. Forces from within and without keep giving power to those that will never strive for the betterment of the masses. If you continue with media crusade, worst will come still and our coming generation will face even greater problems.

An average Nigeria when given opportunity to rule will use every means to enrich himself and impoverish the nation. With God that I believe, prayer in the name of Jesus, things can change in this country. Take it or leave it, you can do nothing to change this country by criticizing or accusing, taking your guns self will not save you if you have one. Only prayer from a sincere and clean hand will get this nation up. But don't stop at criticism, ensure you pray for this country.

You can contribute constructive criticism to anything but not insults.

my very thoughts and prayers exactly.God help us