₦airaland Forum

abbey621:
Do you think menally unstable people care about laws? More than 70% of deaths by guns happens through backdoor or illegal sales.

Even if you're right, that doesn't take the fact that gun control will bring down the numbers of gun casualties. It is a simple and glaring fact.
Let Nigeria government allow everyone to have access to guns in Nigeria and see the gun related deaths spike under one year

maasoap:
Even if you're right, that doesn't take the fact that gun control will bring down the numbers of gun casualties. It is a simple and glaring fact.
Let Nigeria government allow everyone to have access to guns in Nigeria and see the gun related deaths spike under one year

No doubt but there's a difference between gun control and total ban on civilians owning guns. There's a difference between a mandated background check and actually putting in place techniques to reduce gun violence e.g. mental illness evaluation and treatment, increasing legal age to 25, yearly recertification etc.

In Nigeria, not everyone will be able to afford bullets, let alone guns. Gun related deaths are already spiking, we just don't have proper statistics monitoring....lol. You think all these people being attacked by Fulani herdsmen, being kidnapped by Evanesque gangs and so on, do you think they wouldn't be able to protect themselves if they had access to a registered gun? Like I said, we just have to agree to disagree; guns don't kill people, people kill people!

And I was in Dayton couple of days ago just after Indianapolis. May God continually protect us all

abbey621:
I guess you need to define the term mass shootings. I've always understood it to be any shootings where three or more people are killed in a single incidence. If this is the right definition and not just what you see on CNN then since 1980 we've had most cases of mass shootings as a result of a negligent parent, family member or friend. Yes, your examples are correct but they only represent a tiny fraction of gun violence in the U.S. Even if you enact laws which curbs mass shootings as defined by you, it will not solve the situations I've identified. It will not solve gang violence in Chicago or other inner cities. It will not solve domestic violence related deaths by guns.

You mentioned that the situation in Nigeria would be a lot worse but I fail to see how? Kidnappings , rituals, robberies are already high. Insecurity is the order of the day. Come to my in-laws estate where almost everybody is military personnel with weapons at their disposal, there's never been a case of theft not to talk of armed robbery. I guess we can agree to disagree on that one

Do you count armed robbery, gang violence and domestic violence as mass shooting? if you do, then there are already 3 today alone. To do that, you'll count thousands in a Year in the United States. Mass shooting has no universal definition but US congressional , it's defined as shootings carried out in a public place without being a means to an end. That removes gang violence or armed robbery or domestic violence. When I said mass shooting, I meant people that shoot at others indiscriminately without cause. And this is popular where there are a lot of guns without proper regulation.

You counted rituals, robbery and kidnapping in Nigeria, but you don't often hear of a lone shooter shooting sporadically in a night club or in a shopping mall or inside a campus. If things like these will even happen, they are organised by gangs or cultists. It's not only US that have people with mental issues. It's even worse in Nigeria with very few people with hospital records or access to good health care, how many pyschriatic hospitals are inot eachieve state in Nigeria. Or how many people have their health histories with the hospitals. How do you want to give these people guns and you think they'll be better off? How will you know not to sell a gun to a disturbed person in a place like Nigeria?

And why are you using your in-laws estate as an example here? which insane individual will rob an estate full of military personnel? Don't robbers rob police stations in Nigeria? How has more guns solve crime anywhere in the world? it doesn't work in the US, you think it'll work in Nigeria?

Funaki:
Do you count armed robbery, gang violence and domestic violence as mass shooting? if you do, then there are already 3 today alone. To do that, you'll count thousands in a Year in the United States. Mass shooting has no universal definition but US congressional , it's defined as shootings carried out in a public place without being a means to an end. That removes gang violence or armed robbery or domestic violence. When I said mass shooting, I meant people that shoot at others indiscriminately without cause. And this is popular where there are a lot of guns without proper regulation.

You counted rituals, robbery and kidnapping in Nigeria, but you don't often hear of a lone shooter shooting sporadically in a night club or in a shopping mall or inside a campus. If things like these will even happen, they are organised by gangs or cultists. It's not only US that have people with mental issues. It's even worse in Nigeria with very few people with hospital records or access to good health care, how many pyschriatic hospitals are inot eachieve state in Nigeria. Or how many people have their health histories with the hospitals. How do you want to give these people guns and you think they'll be better off? How will you know not to sell a gun to a disturbed person in a place like Nigeria?

And why are you using your in-laws estate as an example here? which insane individual will rob an estate full of military personnel? Don't robbers rob police stations in Nigeria? How has more guns solve crime anywhere in the world? it doesn't work in the US, you think it'll work in Nigeria?

Mass shooting has no universal definition but US congressional , it's defined as shootings carried out in a public place without being a means to an end. That removes gang violence or armed robbery or domestic violence.

Congress is full of sh*t! Mass shootings can and have been a means to an end. A fired co worker came back to place of work to kill his boss and everyone around him. For Congress and you, this does not fit your definition of mass shooting? A bullied kid came back to his school and killed multiple students because he was depressed and suicidal, is this not ameans to an end?

And why are you using your in-laws estate as an example here? which insane individual will rob an estate full of military personnel? Don't robbers rob police stations in Nigeria? How has more guns solve crime anywhere in the world? it doesn't work in the US, you think it'll work in Nigeria?

We have many estates that have been robbed in the past and many more due to poor security. I used the estate as an example of how people don't need to rely on the government to protect them, self security is one area many fail in Nigeria, how many robbers actually do their due diigence in Nigeria? It's not like these people go around in army uniforms....lol. My dad built his mansion and he was robbed twice. Both times he made sure to drop a body, 2 AK 47, 9mm and so on. He does not live in an estate but he is very secured. Outright ban on guns is detrimental to the society, you're at the messy of the authorities or the criminals. The same goes for unconditional gun ownership, there must be a system of checks and balance for it to work.

You counted rituals, robbery and kidnapping in Nigeria, but you don't often hear of a lone shooter shooting sporadically in a night club or in a shopping mall or inside a campus.

Sorry but is one supoosed to be better than the other? I don't get your point here! Can you count the number of people killed by ritualist/kidnappers/robbers in Nigeria this year? Can you tell me those are acceptable casualties compared to mass shooters? Funny!

Killing 9 persons and injured 16 persons in just 20 seconds, Boko boys are just learning... only God knows the type of gun he used ... God please deliver the world, with sympathy, heartbroken right now !!!

sapientia:
Is it bigger than west Africa?

Google is free.

MobilityExpress:
The constitution isn't responsible for the mass shootings, the criminals are. The constitution guarantees a citizen has a chance to save his life when confronted with such evil people. The truth is criminals will always have access to guns. Look at our country Nigeria, bearing guns is illegal, yet almost every criminal group in the country are armed to the teeth, from political thugs, to cultists, to thieves, to kidnappers, even herdsmen have guns. Did the Nigerian constitution stop them? So you see, taking away gun ownership rights legally only takes away guns from good people but the bad people will still always have guns. That's why the NRA is so strong in America, because they understand this truth. Drugs are illegal here, yet some people are still trafficking cocaine everyday in this country, did the law stop the criminals from being criminals? So the right to bear arms in America is not responsible for the mass shootings. Over 70% of the time when there has been a mass shootings, the evil shooter get shot by other good people who were armed, otherwise the killings would have been much more. There's a common saying among 2nd Amendment supporters in America, they say A GUN AT HAND IS BETTER THAN A COP ON THE PHONE. In other words, you stand a better chance to survive when a criminal with a gun tries to attack you if you are also armed with a gun, than calling 911 waiting for police to come and save you. Many times than not, the police will come and meet the dead body of an unarmed victim. Many of the mass shootings happening in America today are sponsored by the enemies of America that want to re-write their constitutional to take away their 2nd Amendment rights. But they keep failing. Their founding fathers were just too smart and understood the intricacies of what it took to sustain a free nation. They made it a 2nd Amendment right, 2nd Amendment. The 1st Amendment gives Freedom, the 2nd Amendment guarantees it. God bless America. Home of the Brave, Land of the Free.

Rights to bear arms without proper background checks is a ticking time bomb. People are easily inspired by nonsense these days. If every Nigerian adult own a gun today, there won’t be a country within 3 months.

Funaki:
Do you count armed robbery, gang violence and domestic violence as mass shooting? if you do, then there are already 3 today alone. To do that, you'll count thousands in a Year in the United States. Mass shooting has no universal definition but US congressional , it's defined as shootings carried out in a public place without being a means to an end. That removes gang violence or armed robbery or domestic violence. When I said mass shooting, I meant people that shoot at others indiscriminately without cause. And this is popular where there are a lot of guns without proper regulation.

You counted rituals, robbery and kidnapping in Nigeria, but you don't often hear of a lone shooter shooting sporadically in a night club or in a shopping mall or inside a campus. If things like these will even happen, they are organised by gangs or cultists. It's not only US that have people with mental issues. It's even worse in Nigeria with very few people with hospital records or access to good health care, how many pyschriatic hospitals are inot eachieve state in Nigeria. Or how many people have their health histories with the hospitals. How do you want to give these people guns and you think they'll be better off? How will you know not to sell a gun to a disturbed person in a place like Nigeria?

And why are you using your in-laws estate as an example here? which insane individual will rob an estate full of military personnel? Don't robbers rob police stations in Nigeria? How has more guns solve crime anywhere in the world? it doesn't work in the US, you think it'll work in Nigeria?

I believe the issue in the US is loneliness as well as powerlessness and lack of purpose due to rise of modern day feminism - many men no longer have purpose and feel powerless- but even at that violent shootings aren't the way to express anger. Long before modern feminism there are women who felt powerless and lonely but they never did mass shootings. So we can safely say these shootings are as a result of TOXIC MASCULINITY!!

abbey621:
No doubt but there's a difference between gun control and total ban on civilians owning guns. There's a difference between a mandated background check and actually putting in place techniques to reduce gun violence e.g. mental illness evaluation and treatment, increasing legal age to 25, yearly recertification etc.

In Nigeria, not everyone will be able to afford bullets, let alone guns.

You would be surprised if it is legalised. We know how much people who could hardly feed are spending on phones. Even in USA, not everyone has guns. But legalising it will increase the numbers in four folds at least.

Gun related deaths are already spiking, we just don't have proper statistics monitoring....lol.

Sure

You think all these people being attacked by Fulani herdsmen, being kidnapped by Evanesque gangs and so on, do you think they wouldn't be able to protect themselves if they had access to a registered gun?

That's why I said every policy has advantages and disadvantages. USA policy on guns has advantages and disadvantages and Nigeria policy on guns has advantages and disadvantages too. But I prefer the Nigeria policy

Like I said, we just have to agree to disagree; guns don't kill people, people kill people!

Laughing. Guns are made to kill. We can choose to accept the reality or decide to pretend like we don't know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2RLan6KDGI

Dayton Shooting Witness Describes Alleged Gunman, Chaos

A 24 year old trigger happy meth-head

maasoap:
You would be surprised if it is legalised. We know how much people who could hardly feed are spending on phones. Even in USA, not everyone has guns. But legalising it will increase the numbers in four folds at least.



Sure



That's why I said every policy has advantages and disadvantages. USA policy on guns has advantages and disadvantages and Nigeria policy on guns has advantages and disadvantages too. But I prefer the Nigeria policy



Laughing. Guns are made to kill. We can choose to accept the reality or decide to pretend like we don't know.

Guns were made to kill? Yet a gun by itself has never killed anyone in the history of humanity...lol. Just like knives, ropes etc, in the hands of an unstable person, they can be weapons of death. Blame the person not the method!

abbey621:
Guns were made to kill? Yet a gun by itself has never killed anyone in the history of humanity...lol. Just like knives, ropes etc, in the hands of an unstable person, they can be weapons of death. Blame the person not the method!

Knifves and ropes have their purposes, they're not invented primarily for killings. Guns were invented primarily for killings. You got the difference now?

maasoap:
Knifves and ropes have their purposes, [b]they're not invented primarily for killings. [/b]Guns were invented primarily for killings. You got the difference now?

Stop confusing yourself. Knives have multi purpose and one of it is to kill or injure, primary or secondary does not matter. You're still missing the point here, a gun by itself kills no one, a knife by itself kills no one. In the hands of a mentally challenged individual, even paper can become weaponized!

5 Facts About Dayton Mass Shooter, Connor Betts.
https://www.nairaland.com/5342321/5-facts-dayton-mass-shooter

abbey621:
Stop confusing yourself. Knives have multi purpose and one of it is to kill or injure, primary or secondary does not matter. You're still missing the point here, a gun by itself kills no one, a knife by itself kills no one. In the hands of a mentally challenged individual, even paper can become weaponized!

Do guns have "multi purpose" too? You see, you're the one who should stop confusing himself. One and only function of gun is to kill, simple.

maasoap:
Do guns have "multi purpose" too? You see, you're the one who should stop confusing himself. One and only function of gun is to kill, simple.

Protection, deterrence to name a few. Educate yourself!

abbey621:
Congress is full of sh*t! Mass shootings can and have been a means to an end. A fired co worker came back to place of work to kill his boss and everyone around him. For Congress and you, this does not fit your definition of mass shooting? A bullied kid came back to his school and killed multiple students because he was depressed and suicidal, is this not ameans to an end?

I agree with you that mass shooting can have motive but I disagree that they always have motives. What was the motive of Stephen Paddock? Police, till now don't know what caused the man to kill so much people. What was the motive of the Sandy Hook school shooter? we don't know. There are several less cases like this that the motives are not known. Most of them are classified under "mental issues". I only cited congressional research to show how mass shootings are reported. If you count every gun violence as mass shooting, you will lose count within a month.

abbey621:
We have many estates that have been robbed in the past and many more due to poor security. I used the estate as an example of how people don't need to rely on the government to protect them, self security is one area many fail in Nigeria, how many robbers actually do their due diigence in Nigeria? It's not like these people go around in army uniforms....lol. My dad built his mansion and he was robbed twice. Both times he made sure to drop a body, 2 AK 47, 9mm and so on. He does not live in an estate but he is very secured. Outright ban on guns is detrimental to the society, you're at the messy of the authorities or the criminals. The same goes for unconditional gun ownership, there must be a system of checks and balance for it to work.

I can agree that petty phone/laptop thieves can be scared away by presence of guns. But professional robbers are not scared of guns. Police are even afraid of those guys. Where I was staying during my NYSC, they always have fear of robbers coming to rob them at night because it is common in that area. Police could not do much because they were afraid too, nobody wants to die, they always dispel the fears as rumors. The only thing the neighbors could do is to not carry cash home at night. It was only when SARS came that the wings of robbers were clamped. Just last week, police ran away from high way robbers. More guns won't stop armed robbery, sometimes robbers even target police station before they go for their operations.

abbey621:
Sorry but is one supoosed to be better than the other? I don't get your point here! Can you count the number of people killed by ritualist/kidnappers/robbers in Nigeria this year? Can you tell me those are acceptable casualties compared to mass shooters? Funny!

You are looking at it like more guns will solve violent crimes in Nigeria. How will gun reduce robbery and kidnapping killings in Nigeria? Most kidnapping and robberies these days happen on the highway. Do you suggest everyone traveling on the highway should hold guns in their hands in case of kidnapping or robbery? If people are given guns in Nigeria, this is probably what will happen: violent crime will increase because of the very poor system and people will start shooting themselves in schools and public places just like the US.

Funaki:
I agree with you that mass shooting can have motive but I disagree that they always have motives. What was the motive of Stephen Paddock? Police, till now don't know what caused the man to kill so much people. What was the motive of the Sandy Hook school shooter? we don't know. There are several less cases like this that the motives are not known. Most of them are classified under "mental issues". I only cited congressional research to show how mass shootings are reported. If you count every gun violence as mass shooting, you will lose count within a month.



I can agree that petty phone/laptop thieves can be scared away by presence of guns. But professional robbers are not scared of guns. Police are even afraid of those guys. Where I was staying during my NYSC, they always have fear of robbers coming to rob them at night because it is common in that area. Police could not do much because they were afraid too, nobody wants to die, they always dispel the fears as rumors. The only thing the neighbors could do is to not carry cash home at night. It was only when SARS came that the wings of robbers were clamped. Just last week, police ran away from high way robbers. More guns won't stop armed robbery, sometimes robbers even target police station before they go for their operations.



You are looking at it like more guns will solve violent crimes in Nigeria. How will gun reduce robbery and kidnapping killings in Nigeria? Most kidnapping and robberies these days happen on the highway. Do you suggest everyone traveling on the highway should hold guns in their hands in case of kidnapping or robbery? If people are given guns in Nigeria, this is probably what will happen: violent crime will increase because of the very poor system and people will start shooting themselves in schools and public places just like the US.

I'm not saying they all have motives but he definition that they can't be a means to an end is just plain wrong. In case you haven't noticed, Congress is getting dumber and dumber by the day.....lol. I mentioned having guns would lead to people being able to protect themselves better. This is true especially in a country like Nigeria where you have to wait hours upon hours before the police shows up, that is if they actually show up at all. Nobody said giving guns to people without any restrictions, nobody said we have to practice the American system of things and nobody said Nigeria was near ready for such things. The truth is we have to have some form of accountability and yearly recertification before guns can be sold to the public in Nigeria.

Ultimately it boils down to this, who would you trust with your life when it is in imminent danger? The Nigerian police or yourself? I choose to bet on myself, some people might like the Nigerian police better, to each its own.....LMAO!

abbey621:
Protection, deterrence to name a few. Educate yourself!

Protection by killing
Deterrence by killing. It looks like you need more education on this

Funaki:
You are looking at it like more guns will solve violent crimes in Nigeria. How will gun reduce robbery and kidnapping killings in Nigeria? Most kidnapping and robberies these days happen on the highway. Do you suggest everyone traveling on the highway should hold guns in their hands in case of kidnapping or robbery? If people are given guns in Nigeria, this is probably what will happen: violent crime will increase because of the very poor system and people will start shooting themselves in schools and public places just like the US.

Nothing could be more distorted in the way of thinking than this belief. Thanks man

maasoap:
Protection by killing
Deterrence by killing. It looks like you need more education on this

Lol...deterrence by killing, typical Nigerian spewing rubbish!

Nemesis909:
5 hostages were rescued within 24 hours in Nigeria.

Beat that.

And d kidnappers? Where are they?