lateefGRDT:
napoli koulibaly

How long will he serve us?

Kimbeast:

Again I will tell you what I told Ema. Without sarri it would have taken a long time for lampard to implement his own idea.
Everyone knew kante defensive qualities, but after Sarri he has also shown how he can dominate on the ball. Especially Yesterday his ability to bring the ball forward and not only do tackles was so important for Us. Sarri made the team comfortable playing from the back under pressure which you saw yesterday was very instrumental against Liverpool high press.

I don't agree its about any foundation if you had followed some of lampard's game at derby..
Its has always been like that. Go and watch his game against sarri at stamford last season self, he neutralised sarri system and they almost won if not for series of own goals.
Even in the plays offs.

But I agree sarri system did turn kante to something else.

Kante under conte doesn't make foward runs as frequently, But now that he has become expert in that. Thanks to sarri that made him play entire season upfront which gave him chance to sharpen his attacking skills,

Kante looks more dangerous than ever now, both in the attack and still solid the defense.

Kimbeast:

He countered nothing my friend. Don't follow the ignorant dolts on this thread. Look at the set up of our last match under sarri and yesterday against Liverpool. Lampard has copied Sarri exact template in the teams setup. The average position of every player is practically identical, Kante and Jorginho particularly. Not taking away from Frank, but the benefits of having sarri for just one year at Chelsea has aided Lampard's idea of football and in implementating it quicker.

Average position of every player dentical ko Jdentical ni. Maybe you expected Lampard to use Jorginho as our striker and Kante as our right back before you stop associating your Sarri with Lampard's system.

Lampard's system is not using Jorginho as our only conduit to attack, that alone has destroyed any association with that yeye Sarri system. We have more fluid and direct play compared to sideways and backward passes that we were bored with last term.

You were the same person that told us Kante wouldn't succeed in an attacking team under Sarri. So save us the thanksgiving ceremony you are planning for your Sarri.

NinjaMetahuman:
I don't agree its about any foundation if you had followed some of lampard's game at derby..
Its has always been like that. Go and watch his game against sarri at stamford last season self, he neutralised sarri system and they almost won if not for series of own goals.
Even in the plays offs.

But I agree sarri system did turn kante to something else.

Kante under conte doesn't make foward runs as frequently, But now that he has become expert in that. Thanks to sarri that made him play entire season upfront which gave him chance to sharpen his attacking skills,

Kante looks more dangerous than ever now, both in the attack and still solid the defense.

Nobody said anything about foundation the term I used I was framework in the sense of the term set up, player roles etc. Kante is still being played in an attacking role, jorginho is still the Anchor of the midfield,Pedro still uses the flank runs, kovacic sub for Barkley . the main reason as to why kante looked better against Liverpool than with sarri in same position is because
sarri was too hell bent on 1 touch passing and wouldnt allow players to run with the ball, kante and kovacic’s best attributes are running with the ball, which was curtailed by sarri because he wanted 1-2 touch passing progression which was his biggest flaw last season and not for his players to hold onto the ball and run with it.

Mount-Jorgi-Kante in my opinion is our best line up against most teams, bring in Kovacic against the top teams.

Fran Lampard on @nglkante: ‘He said to me at half-time in extra-time that his legs were finished, his legs were dead; and then he’s sprinting 50 yards to cover.’

raumdeuter:

Why cant your club buy Krychokewack or Belloti from their Siberian desert
Is that all the foolishness you have to spew or is there anymore foolishness you have in mind for today?

raumdeuter:

Why cant your club buy Krychokewack or Belloti from their Siberian desert
Is that all the foolishness you have to spew or is there anymore foolishness you have in mind for today?

Your level of savergy is always top notch .

Kimbeast:

Nobody said anything about foundation the term I used I was framework in the sense of the term set up, player roles etc. Kante is still being played in an attacking role, jorginho is still the Anchor of the midfield,Pedro still uses the flank runs, kovacic sub for Barkley . the main reason as to why kante looked better against Liverpool than with sarri in same position is because
sarri was too hell bent on 1 touch passing and wouldnt allow players to run with the ball, kante and kovacic’s best attributes are running with the ball, which was curtailed by sarri because he wanted 1-2 touch passing progression which was his biggest flaw last season and not for his players to hold onto the ball and run with it.

nope

go and check kante's heat map in liverpool's game and compare it with most games under sarri.
kante played complete box to box not attacking role like under sarri.



dont know why photo is not uploading but go and check whoscored yourself.

Greatihex:
corrected. sarri was more about having the ball, but there was no quick transition to attack. he just wanted his team to move grdually from defence to attack with short passes even when there is an opportunity to go direct. the team did not fully play the way he wanted, because the winners in the team refused to play the way he wanted because they know that it will only end up being like van gaal team

Yes, I've also pointed out earlier that his undoing at Chelsea was his inflexibility, however his attacking/possession based tactics had already taken hold, we dominated games because our midfielders became adept at possessing the ball better, unlike previous years where we had to absorb pressure and always go long and direct via a counter.

You have to realize how ridiculous it sounds to say Sarri did absolutely nothing positive in his short stint with us. That's a fallacy, there were positives and negatives in equal measure.

Kimbeast:

Nobody said anything about foundation the term I used I was framework in the sense of the term set up, player roles etc. Kante is still being played in an attacking role, [b]jorginho is still the Anchor of the midfield,[/b]Pedro still uses the flank runs, kovacic sub for Barkley . the main reason as to why kante looked better against Liverpool than with sarri in same position is because
sarri was too hell bent on 1 touch passing and wouldnt allow players to run with the ball, kante and kovacic’s best attributes are running with the ball, which was curtailed by sarri because he wanted 1-2 touch passing progression which was his biggest flaw last season and not for his players to hold onto the ball and run with it.

Framework means concept or basic structure of operation.

Must most of our attacks go through Jorginho like we had under Sarri? That was the basic concept of Sarriball which we all saw last season and the moment opponents detected that, we started wobbling. Lampard's system is quite different as our transition from defence to attack is not only by Jorginho.

Lampard used this same system at Derby, and you have full backs and CMs linking defence to attack with forward passes, so nothing like using any Sarri framework.

If Laampard succeeds, he takes all the praises. If he fails he takes the blame. Leave Sarri out of it.

airmark:


Framework means concept or basic structure of operation.

Must most of our attacks go through Jorginho like we had under Sarri? That was the basic concept of Sarriball which we all saw last season and the moment opponents detected that, we started wobbling. Lampard's system is quite different as our transition from defence to attack is not only by Jorginho.

Lampard used this same system at Derby, and you have full backs and CMs linking defence to attack with forward passes, so nothing like using any Sarri framework.

If Laampard succeeds, he takes all the praises. If he fails he takes the blame. Leave Sarri out of it.

Well said, sir.

We seem to all forget something very important here.

We're just 2 games into Lampard's tenure and the two opponents we have faced are teams who played very open games, teams who did not just sit back, soak up pressure and hit on the counter, these were big teams who came out to attack there by giving our attackers spaces to run into.

Cast your minds back to previous seasons, we started very well under Sarri, I remember when we played arsenal at home, how everyone raved about the potentials of greatness and bright future the team had. We even went on a decent run of wins.

Our problems appeared when we encountered teams who simply sat back leaving no space behind for attackers to run into.

Don't also forget that AVB'S tenure and scholari's tenure were off to a flying start before the implosions.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have good expectations, but if history is a good indicator, we MUST be cautiously optimistic, and remember that this team has a lot of limitations and inhibitions.

Lampard is fairly new to management, his experience as a manager is very low, before Guardiola, zidane or OGS took reins at their clubs, they already had managerial experiences at various levels. Our defense is as porous and inexperienced as ever.

We have to be cautious in our expectations, only time will tell.

donjazet:


Yes, I've also pointed out earlier that his undoing at Chelsea was his inflexibility, however his attacking/possession based tactics had already taken hold, we dominated games because our midfielders became adept at possessing the ball better, unlike previous years where we had to absorb pressure and always go long and direct via a counter.

You have to realize how ridiculous it sounds to say Sarri did absolutely nothing positive in his short stint with us. That's a fallacy, there were positives and negatives in equal measure.

If you gain say #50 and lose #50, your business will soon shut down. There must be more positives than negs in everything we do. We are already seeing more positives than negs with Lampard, despite the constraints.

We saw Derby vs Man utd and Chelsea last season, so nobody should tell us Sarri system aids Lampard's. Without Sarri here last season, Lampard would implement his system. Our back four has virtually changed, so not like Lampard feeding off Sarri's sweat of passing from the back.

airmark:


If you gain say #50 and lose #50, your business will soon shut down. There must be more positives than negs in everything we do. We are already seeing more positives than negs with Lampard, despite the constraints.

We saw Derby vs Man utd and Chelsea last season, so nobody should tell us Sarri system aids Lampard's. Without Sarri here last season, Lampard would implement his system. Our back four has virtually changed.

Airmark, I don't think we've seen enough games yet to judge Lampard's football.

Clearly we can see its attack-oriented, however we can't tell his preferred formation or starting eleven or his preferred tactical subs so it's fair to assume that aspects of the game play we see now are factors INHERITED from Sarri's system.

Kante has been injured since the end of last season barely training during that time frame, do you genuinely believe that what we saw Kante do the last match was as a result of Lampard's management or technical acuity

It's very reasonable to surmise that our players still display the fundamentals of Sarri's system.

donjazet:
We seem to all forget something very important here.

We're just 2 games into Lampard's tenure and the two opponents we have faced are teams who played very open games, teams who did not just sit back, soak up pressure and hit on the counter, these were big teams who came out to attack there by giving our attackers spaces to run into.

Cast your minds back to previous seasons, we started very well under Sarri, I remember when we played arsenal at home, how everyone raved about the potentials of greatness and bright future the team had. We even went on a decent run of wins.

Our problems appeared when we encountered teams who simply sat back leaving no space behind for attackers to run into.

Don't also forget that AVB'S tenure and scholari's tenure were off to a flying start before the implosions.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have good expectations, but if history is a good indicator, we MUST be cautiously optimistic, and remember that this team has a lot of limitations and inhibitions.

Lampard is fairly new to management, his experience as a manager is very low, before Guardiola, zidane or OGS took reins at their clubs, they already had managerial experiences at various levels. Our defense is as porous and inexperienced as ever.

We have to be cautious in our expectations, only time will tell.

Well said bro. That's why IMO our best line up against teams where we'll have the lion share of the possession and when we'll have the impetus to break their defence down we're better off having a creative player in midfield that's why mount-jorgi-kante is the best option in midfield
We need someone in our midfield who can score and assist, or break a bus with a pass or a strike from range, Kova can’t, Mount can, against the top 6, especially City and Liverpool then sure Kova-Jorgi-Kante, against the majority of teams in the league Mount-Jorgi-Kante should do it.

airmark:


If you gain say #50 and lose #50, your business will soon shut down. There must be more positives than negs in everything we do. We are already seeing more positives than negs with Lampard, despite the constraints.

We saw Derby vs Man utd and Chelsea last season, so nobody should tell us Sarri system aids Lampard's. Without Sarri here last season, Lampard would implement his system. Our back four has virtually changed, so not like Lampard feeding off Sarri's sweat of passing from the back.

,........

airmark:


If you gain say #50 and lose #50, your business will soon shut down. There must be more positives than negs in everything we do. We are already seeing more positives than negs with Lampard, despite the constraints.

We saw Derby vs Man utd and Chelsea last season, so nobody should tell us Sarri system aids Lampard's. Without Sarri here last season, Lampard would implement his system. Our back four has virtually changed, so not like Lampard feeding off Sarri's sweat of passing from the back.

Let me give you a scenario.If Pochettino was to come in to replace pep at city, we know he has his own system already at Spurs but it's not out of place to say Pep framework will aid him in settling In and implementating his style better unlike him going to replace Simeone at Madrid where he will find it more difficult due to the system already in place. You can't say after just 2 matches that Lampard has already implementated his system which is utterly bullshit not when we are still seeing sarri template. He made few tweaks yes and gave the players more freedom to run with the ball more unlike sarri who is more system oriented. Change of personal doesn't necessarily mean change of system mind you.

donjazet:


Airmark, I don't think we've seen enough games yet to judge Lampard's football.

Clearly we can see its attack-oriented, however we can't tell his preferred formation or starting eleven or his preferred tactical subs so it's fair to assume that aspects of the game play we see now are factors INHERITED from Sarri's system.

Kante has been injured since the end of last season barely training during that time frame, do you genuinely believe that what we saw Kante do the last match was as a result of Lampard's management or technical acuity

It's very reasonable to surmise that our players still display the fundamentals of Sarri's system.

Which system did he inherit when he was at Derby?

U guys should calm down with this ur propaganda abeg.
When Chelsea hired Conte and when the results where not going his way witu 4 at the back, how long did it take Chelsea to understand his 3 at the back tactics/philosophy. I remember Chelsea even one the first game Chelsea played with 3 at the back.

These guys have been training and learning lampard's tactics/philosophy for close to two months now, so attributing Lampard's effort to Sarri is totally wrong.

If u followed Chelsea preseason games u will know Chelsea worked with 4-4-2, 4-4-2 diamond, 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1.

If u said Sarri's philosophy made it easier for the team to adapt to Lampard's philosophy then I might be able to agree with u to an extent, but saying Lampard INHERITED Sarri's tactic is 100% wrong.

Kimbeast:

Well said bro. That's why IMO our best line up against teams where we'll have the lion share of the possession and when we'll have the impetus to break their defence down we're better off having a creative player in midfield that's why mount-jorgi-kante is the best option in midfield
We need someone in our midfield who can score and assist, or break a bus with a pass or a strike from range, Kova can’t, Mount can, against the top 6, especially City and Liverpool then sure Kova-Jorgi-Kante, against the majority of teams in the league Mount-Jorgi-Kante should do it.

I agree with the bolded, one of our most prominent problems with Sarri's system was the lack of a goal scoring midfielder. Kante, Kovacic and jorginho didn't have goals in them or shot power.
There were lots of times last season where a midfielder would have clear sight of goal and instead of shooting would look sideways for the pass. I hope our midfielders really improve on that.

Biggieboy:


Which system did he inherit when he was at Derby?

U guys should calm down with this ur propaganda abeg.
When Chelsea hired Conte and when the results where not going his way witu 4 at the back, how long did it take Chelsea to understand his 3 at the back tactics/philosophy. I remember

These guys have been training and learning lampard's tactics/philosophy for close to two months now, so attributing Lampard's effort to Sarri is totally wrong.

If u said Sarri's philosophy made it easier for the team to adapt to Lampard's philosophy then I might be able to agree with u to an extent, but saying Lampard INHERITED Sarri's tactic is 100% wrong.

Have you actually looked at Derby's results before Lampard's arrival? They finished top7 before he arrived, so he more or less made minor tweaks to their system, his major achievement was reducing the average squad age of the team.

Conte's system worked primarily because of the element of surprise, the formation had never worked in England before then and many teams found it difficult to adapt to the system earlier and don't forget we had an advantage over our rivals with the lack of European football giving us long days of rest between games.
Conte's system imploded the minute other teams adapted to the formation.

I'm not saying that everything we've seen so far is down to Sarri's system but the basics have aided Lampard tremendously in impacting his system.

How anybody can look at what we played last night and see comparison to Sarriball is beyond me.

so if anybody plays 3 midfielders and 3 forwards, Sarri must take credit?

Shey we won't credit Sarri for inventing football too? or at least for building Stamford bridge?

donjazet:


Have you actually looked at Derby's results before Lampard's arrival? They finished top7 before he arrived, so he more or less made minor tweaks to their system, his major achievement was reducing the average squad age of the team.

Conte's system worked primarily because of the element of surprise, the formation had never worked in England before then and many teams found it difficult to adapt to the system earlier and don't forget we had an advantage over our rivals with the lack of European football giving us long days of rest between games.
Conte's system imploded the minute other teams adapted to the formation.

I'm not saying that everything we've seen so far is down to Sarri's system but the basics have aided Lampard tremendously in impacting his system.

U still did not answer my question, how long did it take the team to adapt from 4 at the back to Conte's 3 at the back philosophy?

Lampard also used his predecessor's framework at Derby

Would u agree Guardiola used Pellegrini's framework since Pellegrini was also attack minded?

nihilistjnr:
How anybody can look at what we played last night and see comparison to Sarriball is beyond me.

so if anybody plays 3 midfielders and 3 forwards, Sarri must take credit?

Shey we won't credit Sarri for inventing football too? or at least for building Stamford bridge?

As in ehn.

Some even pointed to the Barkley for Kovacic sub

Biggieboy:


U still did not answer my question, how long did it take the team to adapt from 4 at the back to Conte's 3 at the back philosophy?

Lampard also used his predecessor's framework at Derby

Would u agree Guardiola used Pellegrini's framework since Pellegrini was also attack minded?

I'm pointing out to you that Lampard did not carry out a revolution at derby like you would like to postulate, goals scored and conceded were very much alike before and during his tenure, like wise the position.

It took Guardiola one full year for his team to fully implement his philosophy. Don't forget he went trophyless.

It took Conte about 5-6 months with the team before he started using the 3 at the back formation. Don't make it appear like that was his immediate formation. He experimented different systems before that.

And I point out again that various factors aided Conte, the formation took teams unaware, the lack of European football and an experienced team.

And how any human being with a brain would watch only two matches in a season and genuinely think that there is no input whatsoever from the previous coach bewilders me.

It portrays a myopic view of football.

donjazet:


Airmark, I don't think we've seen enough games yet to judge Lampard's football.

Clearly we can see its attack-oriented, however we can't tell his preferred formation or starting eleven or his preferred tactical subs so it's fair to assume that aspects of the game play we see now are factors INHERITED from Sarri's system.

Kante has been injured since the end of last season barely training during that time frame, do you genuinely believe that what we saw Kante do the last match was as a result of Lampard's management or technical acuity

It's very reasonable to surmise that our players still display the fundamentals of Sarri's system.

Thats a very wrong assumption. He inherited nadda from Sarri system as i explained earlier, Jorginho no more our only link to attack. We now play more forward passes, which make our game more direct. All these he did at Derby, without Sarri being his predecessor there.

Kante was a box to box player, that was also explosive for Leicester that year. So Sarri wasn't the one that taught him that, in fact he underperformed under him.

If Tomori and Mount could do well under Lampard last season, i will rather believe he's the one improving Emerson and co this season and not Sarri.

Am I the only one finding it very difficult to post this afternoon? Person gats try like 5 times before successfully posting?

Swissh:
Update

League never start hazard done dey form Injury

Man is out for 3 to 4 Weeks

He will come back nothing special

Highest he will score 13 laliga goals and maybe 9 or 10 assists

E no fit pass like that

Kimbeast:

Let me give you a scenario.If Pochettino was to come in to replace pep at city, we know he has his own system already at Spurs but it's not out of place to say Pep framework will aid him in settling In and implementating his style better unlike him going to replace Simeone at Madrid where he will find it more difficult due to the system already in place. You can't say after just 2 matches that Lampard has already implementated his system which is utterly bullshit not when we are still seeing sarri template. He made few tweaks yes and gave the players more freedom to run with the ball more unlike sarri who is more system oriented. Change of personal doesn't necessarily mean change of system mind you.

Pocchetino will remove players that would spoil his style and leave those that would play it well at ATM.

Lampard is using a back four that are virtually different from those used by that smoker. Those who may spoil his system are out of it.

Lampard is not using Jorginho as the main man to start our attacks. Lampard is using Kante as a box to box midfielder. Kovacic is now joining to start our attacks and making more daring moves with the ball. Our players are playing with more intensity in attack. Our defenders need to be very swift while defending, reason Luiz is out, Alonso too and if Azpi doesn't adjust, he may follow suit.

The structure of Sarriball was built on Jorginho, Lampard's is not. So nothing like Sarri framework. Once you have those basics of football you can respond to training, if you have needed qualities, for the roles. Conte didn't need years to convert Moses to RWB. Mourinho had used Gallas as LB before. Bosingwa also played as LB. Essien as RB.

Lampard needed no Sarri to implement his system, his system will be implemented if you have those basic qualities taught in academies.

Kimbeast:

I disagree . Sarri is a more system oriented Coach and Players did not like it, but if it was followed properly the results Would have been deadly (look at Napoli's matches and record in his last year there). The fact is our players where stubborn and needed more freedom which Lampard is doing right now. He allows the players more freedom to express themselves that's why kovacic,Pedro and to some extent Kante are no longer restricted.

is it a coincidence that sarri with teams that followed his football to the last was trophyless, but he wins his first trophy with a team that refused to follow his instructions to the later?