₦airaland Forum

Enigma: The perceptive and informed know that the issue of interpretation is different from the issue of manuscript witness.

Ubenedictus: can u prove dat d bibo was kept in latin 4 1000yrs? because i see many translation apart frm latin was available in dat time.

Pastor AIO: Unfortunately there wasn't much in depth talk about the Patristic witness, yet at 1:34:00 Ehrmann mentions it cursorily and makes the fine point that Patristic witness of these documents vary greatly, and, from the copies of the documents that have come down to us. So there was even at the time a variety of versions of the same texts. This is as early as the 2nd century. So perhaps those that want to use patristic manuscript witness to back up their dance should table them where exactly it does so, then we can continue from there.

truthislight: This made for an interesting reading for me and others but, i dont know for you:

https://www.nairaland.com/1104124/problem-catholism-an-introspection/10#14272365

Enigma: And how did Wycliffe who was mentioned in that link translate John 1:1 into English? Did he translate it like you Jehovah's Witnesses do?

How did Tyndale translate John 1:1 into English? Did he too translate it like you Jehovah Witnesses do?

truthislight: This made for an interesting reading for me and others but, i dont know for you:

https://www.nairaland.com/1104124/problem-catholism-an-introspection/10#14272365

Enigma: And how did Wycliffe who was mentioned in that link translate John 1:1 into English? Did he translate it like you Jehovah's Witnesses do?

How did Tyndale translate John 1:1 into English? Did he too translate it like you Jehovah Witnesses do?

Enigma: Go and produce evidence of the "agenda", fraud or whatever that led to the translation of John 1:1 as 'the Word was God'.

After all your extensive research since this thread started we are yet to see any evidence let alone any worthwhile evidence.

On this thread I am not interested in your attempts at digression and obfuscation. On an appropriate thread and with worthwhile people, I might be happy to discuss some of those things which at best are side matters here but which in reality are your attempts to hide from your failure on the central matter of John 1:1.

Pastor AIO: As I seem to be so inarticulate in this matter it will probably help if I allowed the respected scholars on the subject to discuss it for our benefit. How opportune that this video was made posted on youtube a couple of weeks ago. Two opposing viewpoints by respected scholars on the subject. Please watch and enjoy.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-dJA3SnTA


(It is interesting how no one in the audience hardly laughs at Ehrmann's jokes but when Wallace comes on it hilarity all around.)

Enigma: ^^^ Ah, so you've been suffering torment like the torment of "hell" since that my first comment ---- "the thing wey dey bite you dey for ya body, e no concern me".

You think I need videos to be familiar with Ehrman's scholarship?

Oh, and more, you think anything you post is going to bother me?

Mumuness!

Enigma: Hmmm

1. The guy above makes the claim that John 1:1 was translated as "the Word was God" because of some "agenda" implying fraud; he was asked to provide proof; he has been all over the town trying to discuss everything else under the sun except to provide proof for the statement that he drew from his backside.

2. He produces a video on a matter wholly unrelated to John 1:1; and asks others to engage the argument being made in the video; when he has not engaged the argument on the thread; when the argument in the video has nothing to do with the argument on the thread; when he has not been able to defend or substantiate his claim that is in issue.

3. He omits to mention that the argument of the guy in the video was more than ably countered by a world renown expert; he of course does not engage those counter arguments of Dan Wallace but duplicitously asks others to engage Ehrman!

4. Now he is even ignorant of the scholarship of his hero from the video; e.g. his hero's view on the accuracy or otherwise of the translation of John 1:1 as "the Word was God."

5. He is also ignorant of his hero's scholarship to the extent that his hero accepts that in the technical field of textual criticism and despite his hero's sceptical position, his hero accepts that textual variants do not really affect any major Christian tenet. His hero has written this in a book; but of course he might not know that others were familiar with his hero's scholarship ever before there was any such thing as Youtube.

6. The guy is of course desperate to obfuscate ---- as ever. I have in the past pointed out to him that when he is defeated on the central issue of a debate, he seeks to widen it to nonsenses. https://www.nairaland.com/934799/reasons-why-obama-not-christian/6#10872044

7. That link above is just one other example, as this, where the guy was discombobulated after grandstanding without realising that he was once again speaking through his backside. There are several others I could (and might) point to including one where the only person who bothered to respond did so with ---- a facepalm.

Pastor AIO: for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

Rev: 12:12





1)
I hope you have now learnt the actual meaning of 'Obfuscation' and 'Digression'. Here is one more task for you. Go and learn the meaning of 'Agenda'. Then go back to the slowpoke that taught you that Agenda 'implies fraud' and demand a refund for your education. Look at the torment it is putting through.



2) Okay, the thread is about Bible translations (the worst). The video is about the original NT manuscripts which we don't have. How do you determine which is the best or the worst translation of a document when you do not have the original of that document? I hope the relevance of that video is clearer now.
There is a brief mention of the John prologue that is biting you so much at 24:00 of the video. Check it out and come and tell us what it says.




3) Great! I am a Mumu! Obviously Bart Ehrmann is a muumuu too!! But at least sha, Dan Wallace is a 'world renown expert'. That's good, we can start from there.
Ehrmann says we have no copies of the original documents. Note, that Wallace doesn't disagree, but Wallace says that it doesn't matter cos we can, with scholarship, reconstruct the original wording of the Originals. Note that Wallace doesn't say that we HAVE reconstructed the original, but that we CAN. in other words, it is possible. The two attempts to do so thus far are very different from each other.
Once again, how do you judge the quality of translation of a text of which you do not have the original copy? Which is the worst translation? Dan Wallace, the 'world renown expert' agrees that we do not have the original, nor the wordings of the original(yet).
In fact, let's hear Wallace's own words: "Scribes changed the wording of the texts for all sorts of reasons, they were unsuccessful in eradicating the wording of the original. It was both the orthodox and the unorthodox who tampered with the text." 43:11
More words of Wallace: Is the original documents lost? "yes of course they are, only Quacks and Charlatans . . . would argue otherwise". 43:30






4) Hah! This Satan is not only furious, but devious too. I'll ignore this.






5) As King James would say, I'll give a turd for your argument! You're still allowing your torment to cloud your thinking. I don't know what textual variant affecting Christian tenet has to do with anything here. We discussing bible translations.
Your manner of arguing is not even worth the turd I gave you for it. What has how long you've known anyone's argument got to do with anything. Why are you returning again to how much you know before Youtube? That's how you refused to answer the case of the Copts translation of John 1, the word was a God. You simply said that it was an old argument. Do old arguments become redundant with age? Or does an argument become redundant once Enigma has known about it for a long time?





6) hahahah! 'desperate to obfuscate'! We shall come back to that, cos that is a different matter. There you were arguing for the right of christians to be obnoxious in public. That is off the topic here, it is obvious where the real desperation lies.




7) Okay so Satan's desperate fury is exhausted. I am starting some threads titled Contra Bibliolatreia. It might do you good to read some of them.

plaetton:
Ha ha ha. Typical back to sender response from a confused bible scholar eager to defend ignorance by all means.

I do not need to prove anything more.They are there in plain English and in plain sight.
That is why I put them on display , for any one who can read and comprehend english to see the differences.

You on the hand,sought to contradict me by making the claim that all five renderings mean the same thing, so I asked you to kindly give us a lesson in advanced english or linguistics to prove that the five sentences, with different wordings, do indeed have similar meanings.

You are now chickening out by throwing it back to me. What a shame.
Where is the so-called research? If you had any good explanation, I am quite sure you would have rendered it.
So, I am guessing that you do not have any so-called researched explanation other than fanciful delusions.

But Why come here to display complex ignorance?

bacladtv:
SPECIAL INVITATION OF HEBREW ISREALITE BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF WEST AFRICA ON NAIRALAND

This is to use this opportunity to Thank YAH /GOD Almighty our Heavenly Father our Creator and Creator of Heaven and Earth for the great work of trying to WAKEUP our AFRICAN HEBREW ISRAELITE to know about our biblical forgot or lost Identity and forgot or lost Heritage which was prophecy in the bible that Israelite will loose their Identity and Heritage and our forgot/ lost IDENTITY / HERITAGE / which is to KEEP YAH/GOD LAW and FAITH in CHRIST/YESHUA

Please let come together and be of encouragement to each other because it can be very lonely on this journey of KEEPING YAH/GOD COMMANDMENT as HEBREW ISRAELITE because not many of Africa Hebrew Israelite are interested to WAKEUP to accept that we are the Biblical Hebrew Israelite of the Bible.

Please as African Hebrew Israelite Brothers and Sisters our coming together will help us to help each other like d early church in d Book of ACT OF APOSTLE because no one was hungry or lack among them because they are share what they have together and we can also work together as a team to WAKEUP our other AFRICA HEBREW ISRAELITE Brother and Sister that are still asleep through prayer and also feeding d poor.

Please our coming together will also help us to learn from each other biblical our forgot biblical Identity and Heritage and please I beg us not let our differences of in our believe put us away from each other because we are all searching biblical truth that we lost/forgot and we need each other.

Please I will like to suggest if we can FORM A WHATSAPP / SKYPE GROUP so that we can use it to KEEP THE SABBATH / FEAST WORSHIP/ FELLOWSHIP TOGETHER and share biblical scripture to keep Yah/God Command and Faith in Christ Yeshua.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION

Please our POWER is in KEEPING YAH/GOD LAW and FAITH in CHRIST/YESHUA blc according to d scripture in d book Revelation 2:14 about Balaam because Balaam was unable to curse Ancient Hebrew Israelite our forefather in wilderness until BALAAM REVEAL THEY MAKE THEM BREAK YAY/GOD COMMANDMENT IN TORAH and this is why AFRICAN COUNTRIES is suffering today because Devil has TWISTED BIBLE to continue to make us to BREAK YAH/GOD COMMANDMENT in the CHURCHES Because African Hebrew Hebrew Isrealite are d only people on earth SUFFERING FROM CURSE OF DEUTERONOMY 28:15- 68 Because we refuse to keep Yah/God Commandment and Faith Christ/Yeshua because this is why GENTILE NATION ARE SUCCEEDING and PROSPEROUS Because YAH/GOD COMMANDMENT WAS NOT GIVEN TO THEM.

BELOW ARE SUPPORTED BIBLE REFERENCES THAT WE NEED TO KEEP GOD/YAH COMMANDMENT



JOSHUA-1:8 NKJV REVELATION-14:12-NKJV REVELATION-22:14-NKJV

PSALM-1:2-3-NKJV ROMAN-2:13 NKJV


PLEASE ALSO READ ( ACT 21 )

TO SEE APOSTLE PAUL DOING ANIMAL SACRIFICE AFTER THE DEATH OF CHRIST/YESHUA AND PAUL WAS ALSO TAKEN FOR AN EGYPTIAN BECAUSE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN WERE BLACK



Pls let us meet on email ( shaloms179@gmail.com )

plaetton:
Ha ha ha. Typical back to sender response from a confused bible scholar eager to defend ignorance by all means.

I do not need to prove anything more.They are there in plain English and in plain sight.
That is why I put them on display , for any one who can read and comprehend english to see the differences.

You on the hand,sought to contradict me by making the claim that all five renderings mean the same thing, so I asked you to kindly give us a lesson in advanced english or linguistics to prove that the five sentences, with different wordings, do indeed have similar meanings.

You are now chickening out by throwing it back to me. What a shame.
Where is the so-called research? If you had any good explanation, I am quite sure you would have rendered it.
So, I am guessing that you do not have any so-called researched explanation other than fanciful delusions.

But Why come here to display complex ignorance?

plaetton:
Absolute trash.
Why can't we be content with simply being African Negroes ?

Why does any African need to be Hebrew Israelite ?

What is this self-deprecating disease that compels us to attach ourselves to something foreign in order to feel good ?