OtemAtum:


Oh, you mean I should read your doctrine? Are you one of the writers of the Bible? I read the Bible, you read it too, so why should I read your sermon before I could understand what is clearly written in the Bible?

The question is :
1. Can a man see your God? Yes or no

1a. If yes, then why did your Jesus say 'no man has seen God at any time?'

1b. If no, why did Moses say 'I have seen god face to face?

First calm down, it is important for you. Because asking the same questions already treated reveals you arent calm.

Secondly, why is it hard this days for people to read but just so fast to comment, it is a very bad trait. Most people's problem is not knowledge but lack of desire to read and read well.

You are asking the same question the other person asked and that have been answered and laid in two posts not far from where you clicknow. And yet you didnt see it, why? You cant take time to read.

You will truly need patience and start reading. Cant you see that you arent doing well to have asked same thing already answered.

But i will help you again, just click on that link and ensure you read it this time. It has already be answered in this thread as seen below.

https://www.nairaland.com/5779196/coronavirus-humbles-christians-muslims/3#88260534

https://www.nairaland.com/5779196/coronavirus-humbles-christians-muslims/3#88295830

hupernikao:


First calm down, it is important for you. Because asking the same questions already treated reveals you arent calm.

Secondly, why is it hard this days for people to read but just so fast to comment, it is a very bad trait. Most people's problem is not knowledge but lack of desire to read and read well.

You are asking the same question the other person asked and that have been answered and laid in two posts not far from where you clicknow. And yet you didnt see it, why? You cant take time to read.

You will truly need patience and start reading. Cant you see that you arent doing well to have asked same thing already answered.

But i will help you again, just click on that link and ensure you read it this time. It has already be answered in this thread as seen below.

https://www.nairaland.com/5779196/coronavirus-humbles-christians-muslims/3#88260534

https://www.nairaland.com/5779196/coronavirus-humbles-christians-muslims/3#88295830

These are simple questions and a long sermon is not needed to answer it. Long sermons are for indoctrination and nobody can deceive somebody like me into following long sermons when a simple question is asked. If you can't answer the questions, then just forget about it. Thanks.

hupernikao:


It is sad that you cant read when post are long. I know it is a strange thing these days to be serious with discussions. Sorry for that, but i cant help you. It is a culture you need to develop so as to be able to understand things and not appear lazy.

Firstly, i will advise you to try to be a patient person and read patiently and spend time to think on what you read. Also, help yourself to be able to be diligent in proper study.
Life is not in jumping guns to prove a point. You may end up embarrassing yourself someday if you dont have good grasp of what you hold tight. No one is in competition with you, get that. You can have such feeling on face less media, but in life, ensure you dont expose such laziness but be calm to study and learn before having an opinion on things.

Scriptures arent for lazy lads even by those who deliberately find fault in it. It is serious work, so maybe you may face what you are well cut out for, and leave this for those who can read.

I did not want to drag that argument further but since you managed to delude yourself that you won the argument, I think I should set it straight.

Now there's what is called a theophany and the bible clearly explains such cases. It refers to where God appeared to men disguised in human form. All those references you made including Jacob, Manoah, Abraham, Gideon, were such cases.
But with Moses, the bible put it different. He asked to see God physically and God obliged him.
So yes, he saw God. Which God confirmed in Numbers 12.
Clearly not the fullness of God.
The argument and contradiction is simply that the same bible that says Moses saw God also said no one except Jesus has seen God.
And no, this is not about language interpretation or translation.

One more thing you need to understand before making up ignorant assumptions is that most of those who stopped believing the bible were once scholars in it. The irony of the bible is it takes studying it to stop believing it's true. Cos you see it's errors. Not swallowing hook, line and sinker what your pastor wants you to hear.

OtemAtum:
These are simple questions and a long sermon is not needed to answer it. Long sermons are for indoctrination and nobody can deceive somebody like me into following long sermons when a simple question is asked. If you can't answer the questions, then just forget about it. Thanks.

Don't mind the guy. They know how to cherry pick what they want to see in the bible.

Covid-19 some how managed to humble Christians during Easter by locking everyone in, it humbled the Jews during Passover as it failed to pass over their country and now the Muslim ramadan kareem is here, it's just too embarrassing to watch.
These are the most pious religious calendars but Covid-19 has clearly proved more powerful than their God/Allah cos all their prayers have come back empty, rather the tolls are increasing.

Initially pastor kicked against the lock down saying the churches are being targeted and only rapture can make the church close. Now they claim the Covid-19 was sent to draw them closer to God through personal fellowship. However tithes and offerings are not on lockdown as notable churches have now created USSD codes for payments.

As bad as Covid-19 is, it has done one good thing.
It has exposed the scam religion is. And most especially the fraudsters who call themselves GOs, pastors, imams and prophets that have been having a field day prophe-lying to gullible and desperate souls. Succinctly put, they never saw it coming.

Just say you're an atheist to help your audience!

Myer:
Covid-19 some how managed to humble Christians during Easter by locking everyone in, it humbled the Jews during Passover as it failed to pass over their country and now the Muslim ramadan kareem is here, it's just too embarrassing to watch.
These are the most pious religious calendars but Covid-19 has clearly proved more powerful than their God/Allah cos all their prayers have come back empty, rather the tolls are increasing.

Initially pastor kicked against the lock down saying the churches are being targeted and only rapture can make the church close. Now they claim the Covid-19 was sent to draw them closer to God through personal fellowship. However tithes and offerings are not on lockdown as notable churches have now created USSD codes for payments.

As bad as Covid-19 is, it has done one good thing.
It has exposed the scam religion is. And most especially the fraudsters who call themselves GOs, pastors, imams and prophets that have been having a field day prophe-lying to gullible and desperate souls. Succinctly put, they never saw it coming.

Why do you think Christian leaders who claim to be miracle channels avoid visiting people in critical situations out side the church?



How many times have you heard that oyedepo or tb joshua or adeboye visited an hospital and people got healed and the hospital emptied?



Real life is different from a crusade where everything is conditioned and controlled to fool people and even people are willing to voluntarily claim to be healed just to please the pastor or in hope that they would later get the real healing be claiming it by faith and testifying even though they know they are not healed

God is in hiding right now.
You all wait until the pandemic is over. Then, he will come out of hiding and let you all know that he alone is responsible for bringing it to an end. Not the doctors, nurses, care workers, scientists etc, who sacrified a lot to save us all from the pandemic.

Maximus69:
Just say you're an atheist to help your audience!

Don;t worry about the audience sir, worry about what you have been programmed to believe that keeps failing you when you need it the most.

Worry about your naivity and gullibility to think you are chosen and others are going to hell.
Worry about how JW can defy govt orders not to disturb people's peace knocking on people's doors to preach but suddenly you are very obedient to stay at home because you're afraid of covid-19.
Please this is a good time to go and knock on people's doors. I mean everyone is at home.
Worry about how you and your leaders will explain that your all mighty God has stopped healing the sick because there's no more need for signs even though people are dying.
You should probably worry about how you will survive this lockdown if Govt doesn't send you palliatives since your organisation definitely doesn't care about you even though you all preach love.

You have a lot to worry about sir, so let me leave you with that for now.

Zodiac61:
God is in hiding right now.
You all wait until the pandemic is over. Then, he will come out of hiding and let you all know that he alone is responsible for bringing it to an end. Not the doctors, nurses, care workers, scientists etc, who sacrified a lot to save us all from the pandemic.

Looool as usual. Run to the scientists but give the pastor and God the credit.

The irony is that the more they say they are praying, the higher the tolls are rising. Trump even called for a day of fasting and prayer in US and ever since then instead of the case to at least reduce, US cases shot up, now they are the worst hit!

Our 9ja pastors are just embarrassing themselves and insulting one another. Imagine Chosen GO said covid-19 will end the day govt allows churches to re-open and, wait for it, everyone returns to God.
You see the catch? How will everyone return to God?
So that when it doesn't work, he can claim it's because not everyone returned to God. Clowns!

odinson1:

Why do you think Christian leaders who claim to be miracle channels avoid visiting people in critical situations out side the church?



How many times have you heard that oyedepo or tb joshua or adeboye visited an hospital and people got healed and the hospital emptied?



Real life is different from a crusade where everything is conditioned and controlled to fool people and even people are willing to voluntarily claim to be healed just to please the pastor or in hope that they would later get the real healing be claiming it by faith and testifying even though they know they are not healed

That's the scam. As long as there's a crowd there will always be some who will turn out fine.
While they tell the rest that they need more faith or that it's not yet God's time. lol
I mean even motivational speakers work the same way.

Myer:


That's the scam. As long as there's a crowd there will always be some who will turn out fine.
While they tell the rest that they need more faith or that it's not yet God's time. lol
I mean even motivational speakers work the same way.

A man had an auto crash and loses both legs. One day, he comes across the following words from the Bible:
"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do." John 14:13-14
Then he fervently and humbly asks that God send him new pair of legs.
Two years later, still in his wheelchair, he keeps reminding God of His word.
One day, during a Bible study service, a Minister teaches from that same scripture.
"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do."
During the Q&A session, he raises his hand and asks if that scripture is really true. He tells the church God has failed to keep His word.
Immediately there are three school of thoughts as the church ministers interpret the Bible verse to him:
1. The Lord is testing your faith. For He cannot give you more than you can bear.
The Verdict: that scripture is 100% correct but you are going through a test.
2. That scripture says “according to your faith, if you ask anything in my name it shall be done.” Your faith is not enough.
The Verdict: it’s your fault. The Bible is 100% true. The error is with you.
3. Have you added fasting and effectual prayers? Some things demand special prayers. Extraordinary gift. Remember that there’s a gift of doing miracles.
The Verdict: find a higher spiritual power. You are not qualified. There are men and women of God anointed to carry out such special requests.
When all is said and done, the man rolls his wheelchair down the road with more questions in his head. Then, one more teacher walks up to him and says: you should give thanks to God that you can use a wheelchair. What if you had died during that fatal accident.
The man is angry and says: no, you should give thanks to the man who made this wheelchair. He doesn’t believe in God nor does he read all that stuff we read. Yet this sinner man made something that works. No promises. No long prayers. Just nuts and bolts, and common sense.

Myer:
The Coronavirus outbreak has exposed churches and mosques all over the world especialy Nigerians who have made religion the epicentre of their lives.

I just have a couple of questions for Christians and Muslims-
Is Coronavirus now greater than your God?

Why is the Coronavirus not sparing Christians and Muslims? Since you claim it's God's punishment for sinners?

Is every crisis anti-christ? Are you not ashamed of your many failed prophecies or predictions?

Why are the pastors not fulfiling their calling by going to isolation centres to lay hands on the sick?

Why are pastors praying for vaccines and running to science? Suddenly not depending on God for miracles?

All the "God told me" pastors and prophets how market? God didn't "told you" about this Coronavirus?

While God was "tolding you" about his/your plans for 2020 programs, this never came up?

Where can I get some of whatever pastor Chris is smoking?

Lol. What if the virus is part of God's plan.
Brah, read the book of revelation.

Squillaci:

Lol. What if the virus is part of God's plan.
Brah, read the book of revelation.

True sha.
I guess God hides his plans from his dearly trusted men of God right? Or maybe they're all fake.
Do you have an idea how many times Christians have quoted revelations and rapture when there's any pandemic or war or end of a millennium like 1999?
Covid-19 is a pandemic that has come to reset the brains of religious people, to expose the scam of it all.
Pastors, Imams and the rest must be praying and fasting that their gullible followers won't wake up to reality yet. Cos business don spoil be that.

Myer:


(1)Don;t worry about the audience sir, worry about what you have been programmed to believe that keeps failing you when you need it the most.

(2)Worry about your naivity and gullibility to think you are chosen and others are going to hell.

(3)Worry about how JW can defy govt orders not to disturb people's peace knocking on people's doors to preach but suddenly you are very obedient to stay at home because you're afraid of covid-19.
Please this is a good time to go and knock on people's doors. I mean everyone is at home.

(4)Worry about how you and your leaders will explain that your all mighty God has stopped healing the sick because there's no more need for signs even though people are dying.

(5)You should probably worry about how you will survive this lockdown if Govt doesn't send you palliatives since your organisation definitely doesn't care about you even though you all preach love.

You have a lot to worry about sir, so let me leave you with that for now.

Hmmmmmm how much are the worries of the faithless?
Well let me address your quest one by one.

(1)You think we are programmed to trust God's word yet we've formed a global family of peace loving worshipers that all unbelievers can testify to. John 13:34-35;17:20-23

(2)God's word never said anyone is chosen for salvation otherwise there won't be any need to preach or teach! Matthew 28:19-20

(3) Jesus commissioned the preaching and teaching from house to house in the first century, it was halted when the then world power (Rome) establish a counterfeit form of Christianity (Roman Catholic Church) and began using weapons to force people into accepting their own religion instead of the peaceful preaching and teaching technique introduced by Jesus. America declared FREEDOM of speech, expression and worship in the 1800s opening the way for true Christianity to be reformed again and it was in 1919 that Jesus (in spirit) finished preparing his true followers to restart the work that was halted by the Roman empire back then. He promised to assist us until the peace message reaches the most distant part of the earth.
1919~2019~Covid19 is an indication that it's now 100 years Jesus has been organizing his followers preparing them for Paradise!

(4) During the times God enabled his servants to perform miracles, people were dying Sir, so what you supposed to ask for is "the purpose of miraculous works"!

(5)Wow! Wow!! Wow!!! Well my concern is for unbelievers who have stubbornly rejected our proposal to join the global family of peace loving worshipers!
Note that before now JWs do ask for cash donations to continue printing our monthly publications that we are distributing globally until suddenly Jehovah said "stop asking for cash donations from them, perhaps there may be some who have interest but can't afford it" Revelations 22:17

That was what shocked all members of Jehovah's Witnesses Organization globally because the question we were asking ourselves is "how are we going to continue printing the monthly publications if we should stop collecting cash donations from subscribers?"

But Jehovah said to us "Now I am about to show you my (loyal servants) the greatest sign that unbelievers can't notice!"

Sir i am telling you that it's been 25 years now that JWs have stopped demanding for cash donations from interested subscribers, yet the publications kept coming!

Even millions of our brothers and sisters here in Africa often shed tears of joy in appreciation when publications like Bibles and many hard copy publications are been distributed to us FREELY!

And to shock you my dear friend, do you know that as i am typing this now JWs are distributing food items to members of the organization globally?

Well the Bible book of Psalms 23:1 is now having it's fulfilment in complete, it says

"JEHOVAH is my SHEPHERD, i will not lack any good thing"

Compare to Psalms 37:25

JEHOVAH said "the person who failed to provide for his household had disown the FAITH and such a person is worse than the faithless" 1Timothy 5:8

It's from the bottom of my heart that i'm telling you this now that Jehovah is keeping to his promises, it's misinformed churchgoers that are in anguish NOT Jehovah's Witnesses! Isaiah 65:13-14

Do you even know why Jehovah asked us to separate ourselves from the unbelievers {2Corinthians 6:17} and gave us another unique group name? Isaiah 65:15

Well thanks!

Maximus69:


Hmmmmmm how much are the worries of the faithless?
Well let me address your quest one by one.

(1)You think we are programmed to trust God's word yet we've formed a global family of peace loving worshipers that all unbelievers can testify to. John 13:34-35;17:20-23

(2)God's word never said anyone is chosen for salvation otherwise there won't be any need to preach or teach! Matthew 28:19-20

(3) Jesus commissioned the preaching and teaching from house to house in the first century, it was halted when the then world power (Rome) establish a counterfeit form of Christianity (Roman Catholic Church) and began using weapons to force people into accepting their own religion instead of the peaceful preaching and teaching technique introduced by Jesus. America declared FREEDOM of speech, expression and worship in the 1800s opening the way for true Christianity to be reformed again and it was in 1919 that Jesus (in spirit) finished preparing his true followers to restart the work that was halted by the Roman empire back then. He promised to assist us until the peace message reaches the most distant part of the earth.
1919~2019~Covid19 is an indication that it's now 100 years Jesus has been organizing his followers preparing them for Paradise!

(4) During the times God enabled his servants to perform miracles, people were dying Sir, so what you supposed to ask for is "the purpose of miraculous works"!

(5)Wow! Wow!! Wow!!! Well my concern is for unbelievers who have stubbornly rejected our proposal to join the global family of peace loving worshipers!
Note that before now JWs do ask for cash donations to continue printing our monthly publications that we are distributing globally until suddenly Jehovah said "stop asking for cash donations from them, perhaps there may be some who have interest but can't afford it" Revelations 22:17

That was what shocked all members of Jehovah's Witnesses Organization globally because the question we were asking ourselves is "how are we going to continue printing the monthly publications if we should stop collecting cash donations from subscribers?"

But Jehovah said to us "Now I am about to show you my (loyal servants) the greatest sign that unbelievers can't notice!"

Sir i am telling you that it's been 25 years now that JWs have stopped demanding for cash donations from interested subscribers, yet the publications kept coming!

Even millions of our brothers and sisters here in Africa often shed tears of joy in appreciation when publications like Bibles and many hard copy publications are been distributed to us FREELY!

And to shock you my dear friend, do you know that as i am typing this now JWs are distributing food items to members of the organization globally?

Well the Bible book of Psalms 23:1 is now having it's fulfilment in complete, it says

"JEHOVAH is my SHEPHERD, i will not lack any good thing"

Compare to Psalms 37:25

JEHOVAH said "the person who failed to provide for his household had disown the FAITH and such a person is worse than the faithless" 1Timothy 5:8

It's from the bottom of my heart that i'm telling you this now that Jehovah is keeping to his promises, it's misinformed churchgoers that are in anguish NOT Jehovah's Witnesses! Isaiah 65:13-14

Do you even know why Jehovah asked us to separate ourselves from the unbelievers {2Corinthians 6:17} and gave us another unique group name? Isaiah 65:15

Well thanks!

If this is how you answer exam questions, you must be a drop-out by now.

1. This is what religion does to you. Just like you every other Jew, non-JW Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc believes their own religion is the peaceful and only true one. You should know religion has made you all enemies.

2. Apparently you've not read your bible or as usual you choose your interpretation.

3. Exactly why I said you should not let an ordinary Covid-19 deter you from your great commission. Go ye and preach don't be a disobedient child to God and suddenly obedient to govt now. Don;t tell me you don't want to die and be martyred for the gospel?

4. Don't tell me your organization believes in miraculous provisions now? But just not in miraculous healing? How can you not believe in healing but believe God made provision for the money for printing your publications. You're a clown.

5. Ok, that's if your claim is true. But only JW members? Where is the love for all? Galatians 6:10

By the way Isaiah 65:15 is contradicted by Romans 9:15-19
You just quote scriptures ignorantly. How does Isaiah 65:15 relate to having a group name? Maybe I need to find time to teach you how to search the scriptures cos clearly your bible schools did a very nasty job.

Religion has messed you up.

Myer:


If this is how you answer exam questions, you must be a drop-out by now.

1. This is what religion does to you. Just like you every other Jew, non-JW Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc believes their own religion is the peaceful and only true one. You should know religion has made you all enemies.

2. Apparently you've not read your bible or as usual you choose your interpretation.

3. Exactly why I said you should not let an ordinary Covid-19 deter you from your great commission. Go ye and preach don't be a disobedient child to God and suddenly obedient to govt now. Don;t tell me you don't want to die and be martyred for the gospel?

4. Don't tell me your organization believes in miraculous provisions now? But just not in miraculous healing? How can you not believe in healing but believe God made provision for the money for printing your publications. You're a clown.

5. Ok, that's if your claim is true. But only JW members? Where is the love for all? Galatians 6:10

By the way Isaiah 65:15 is contradicted by Romans 9:15-19
You just quote scriptures ignorantly. How does Isaiah 65:15 relate to having a group name? Maybe I need to find time to teach you how to search the scriptures cos clearly your bible schools did a very nasty job.

Religion has messed you up.

I only presented what my spiritual family (religion) is doing presently and the benefit that adherents are enjoying!

So as an atheist, all you should do now is to present what atheists as a group is doing and how it's benefitting atheists like you.

Our beliefs is our beliefs NOT yours and you're not the one to tell us how we should go about it. Rather you should be concerned about yourself and fellow faithless people like you during this period!

Humbles Fake Christians and Muslims. It is Obama/China Shakara.

Maximus69:


I only presented what my spiritual family (religion) is doing presently and the benefit that adherents are enjoying!

So as an atheist, all you should do now is to present what atheists as a group is doing and how it's benefitting atheists like you.

Our beliefs is our beliefs NOT yours and you're not the one to tell us how we should go about it. Rather you should be concerned about yourself and fellow faithless people like you during this period!

I don't belong to any group that collects from me in the name of religion. Like normal people, I pay my taxes and govt has been sharing palliatives. If your organization fails you, don't worry govt has proven to be more reliable, they will reach you soon.

Oh ye faithful one, you must be very disappointed that once again your rapture did not happen after all your religiousity.
Don't worry, the veil over your eyes will one day be removed.

orunto27:
Humbles Fake Christians and Muslims. It is Obama/China Shakara.

Are there real Christians and Muslims? Religion itself is fake bro.
Can you elaborate on the Obama/China shakara? You think Obama too is involved?

Myer:


You should know when you've been defeated and humbled.
Even your pastor cannot spew this rubbish you're spewing with a straight face.
If you weren't so brainwashed you will know that your pastor is already singing a new song after his church got locked up.
Suddenly it's not God iwho does miracles but your own faith right? Gerrarahie

God is still working miracles... So, why misconcepting this whole thing

Myer:


I don't belong to any group that collects from me in the name of religion. Like normal people, I pay my taxes and govt has been sharing palliatives. If your organization fails you, don't worry govt has proven to be more reliable, they will reach you soon.

Oh ye faithful one, you must be very disappointed that once again your rapture did not happen after all your religiousity.
Don't worry, the veil over your eyes will one day be removed.

How come you just assume every religion claiming Christian believe the same thing?

Well for your information the word BELIEVE connotes TRUST therefore if all these religions claiming Christians truly believe the same thing they will all be in one group and not scattered in their so called beliefs!

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, there is nothing like Rapture and as for taxes we're mandated to pay because failure to do so means disbelief in my group.

And the so called palliatives, I told you we are already enjoying that in Jehovah's Witnesses Organization from the beginning till now!

So instead of speaking without full knowledge, why not ascertain all things before spewing gibberish about what you don't know?

Brunicekid:
God is still working miracles... So, why misconcepting this whole thing

I am sure you've never experienced a real miracle before. So why are you deceiving yourself?