₦airaland Forum

Are you scare that you might be losing your disciples?  Here are some answers from past post that you either glossed over or did not see.

OLAADEGBU:
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves . . . He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. -- Matthew 10:16,40

Note, that Jesus called them sheep in the midst of wolves and what did He say to those who received them?

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. -- John 1:12

OLAADEGBU:
And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits -- Mark 6:7

And they went out, and preached that men should repent.  And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them -- Mark 6:12-13.

Jesus would not call out a pack of sinners (goats, wolves, dogs and swines), empower them and and send them to preach the gospel of salvation to others, would he?

OLAADEGBU:
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. -- Matthew 10:16

This is another proof that the disciples sent out to preach the gospel were sheep and not goats or wolves. Jesus would not send out a pack of sinners on evangelism. What He said here are instructions to His disciples not only for their immediate assignment but also for the future worldwide evangelization ministry He would give them, and all subsequent disciples. The instructions from Matthew 10:16 to the end of the chapter applies to all believers from then until "the Son of man be come" (Matthew 10:23).

OLAADEGBU:
@OP,

Back to the Opening Post. The following verses of Scriptures proves to me that the Apostles were born again during the earthly ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this is reflected in the prayer He prayed for them when He was yet to be crucified and resurrected.

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. -- John 17:2-6

Here you see our Lord, Jesus Christ with what is called the "high priestly prayer," that He offered at night when He was approaching His appointed hour. He said in His prayers what eternal life means and that He has given it to His Apostles as well as His disciples. Does this not mean that the Apostles were born again as at the time Jesus was praying for them? Jesus said again in verse 6, that these disciples whom the Father has given to Him have kept His Word. Is this not telling us that these disciples were born again?

Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. -- John 17:7-9

If this does not mean that they were born again then I don't know what it means. Note the difference between the world and those that belong to the Father.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. -- John 17:12-14

These disciples were not of the world just as Jesus was not of the world.

I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. -- John 17:15-16

Jesus stressed this point here again that the disciples were not of the world just as He is also not of the world and He prayed that they should be kept from evil. This also tells believers of today that even though we are in the world, we are not of the world and that we should keep ourselves so that satan does us no harm -- 1 John 5:18

If we have to concentrate on the issue of discurse, then i think the Apostles got born again on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:2
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
KJV
put in mind that the coming of the Holy Spirit gave birth to the church, for this is the period of the church which is the dispensation of the Holy ghost.
Now when a man gets born again he or she is baptise into the body of Christ, this was exactly what happened to the Apostles, in this verse (Act 2:2) the bible says the Spirit of God filled the the entire room  and the Apostles were inside the room, so what then is baptism, its from a Greek word baptizo which means to be ccompletely immense into something, that's to say you are totally inside, this was the experience of the Apostles, they got born again when they were ccompletely immense into the body of Christ ,let me quickly ask this question, when the spirit of God filled the room (overshadow), were the Apostles inside the spirit of God or the Spirit of God was inside them, the truth is the were inside the Holy Spirit, that incubation gave birth to the church.
Remember they had another experience that same day in verse 3-4

Acts 2:2
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
KJV

Acts 2:3-4
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
KJV
that's the evidence of speaking in tongues

what i explained in verse 2 is significant to water baptism which is the outward demonstration of what you do in your place of confessing Jesus as your Lord and saviour, which is to say you are iidentifying with his death and Resurrection, so when you are deept into the water it signifies His death an beburialnd when you are brought out of the water, it signifies His Resurrection

Salvation of Disciples

When were the disciples saved?

Some say when they were called, Come follow me. Some say not until after Christ ascended to heaven and then they received salvation and the Holy Ghost.

With the exception of Judas, the apostles were certainly saved during the lifetime of Christ, though I would not speculate as to the exact time. Consider the following:

Matthew 16:16-17 [16] "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.  [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him", Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven". 

Peter believed in Christ as the Son of the living God and Jesus called him blessed for his faith and confession.  Certainly this is a saved man.  In another instance, many of the disciples of Jesus (not the twelve) were leaving as they found His teaching too difficult to accept.  Here is the story in part:

John 6:66-69 [66] From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him . [67] Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? [68] Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. [69] And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Here we see that the faith of Peter was common to the twelve (he says "we believe".  The further context of this passage shows that Judas is the particular exception to their faith.  The eleven were certainly saved.

As to the receiving of the Holy Ghost, this was another matter.  It is only in this Age of Grace that all believers are indwelled by the Holy Ghost.  The apostles lived through this transition.  Consider the following verses:

John 7:38-39 [38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. [39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)   

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Their salvation and their indwelling by the Holy Ghost occurred at two different times.  On that the Bible is clear.

http://www.learnthebible.org/salvation-of-disciples.html

Did the Apostles have eternal life before the Cross?

Jesus said,

"Verily, verily, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life". (John 5:24).

OLAADEGBU:
Did the Apostles have eternal life before the Cross?

Jesus said,

"Verily, verily, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life". (John 5:24).

Clever thought but please my dear let us not get things complicated this was a promise to come into effect after His death and resurection like we read in
Hebrews 9:15- "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth"
Please read and understand

May be l should have added this because l feel it would help to make things more clearer
Hebrews 9:20 ". . . This is the BLOOD OF THE TESTAMENT which God hath enjoined unto you"
Where was "the blood" spilled ?

Salvation Before the Cross
by Steve Fazekas

The Bible record presents two dominant themes: promise and fulfilment.  Over and again we see God promising and then, true to His Word, fulfilling.  Even at the very beginning, when the fall of man first brought sin and death into the world, God graciously promised that one day Christ would step into history, as a "lamb . . . foreordained before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:19-20), to shed His blood to save a fallen humanity. 

The story of mankind's redemption is "monergistic"; that is, it begins with God alone as the "Prime Mover."  Genesis 3:15 gives the first prophetic promise, an account of the coming struggle between "the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent," whose outcome is never in question.

Couched within the conflict is the divine declaration of promise and fulfillment.  God pledges to send "The Coming One," a Saviour, who would crush the head of Satan to redeem a fallen race.  Then He fulfills His promise when Christ appears in the flesh.

The Old Testament is filled with types and shadows, prophetic indicators announcing through the ancient nation of Israel a Redeemer who would come to deliver His people.  Unmistakably, a gospel theme runs like a silver thread throughout the Bible, joining promise to fulfillment.

The expected arrival of this divine Person loomed large in the minds of many in ancient Israel who searched the Scriptures for confirmation.  John the Baptist's announcement, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29), resonated within the hearts of the multitudes as they flocked to hear Him.

One of the most amazing testimonies to the timelessness of the gospel promise comes from the lips of Jesus Himself.  He comforts and encourages a despondent group of disciples on the road to Emmaus with these amazing words, "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?" (Luke 24:26).

Whether we look backward or forward in time, God has always saved in the same manner, by His grace through a person's faith in the "seed of the woman," Jesus the promised Messiah, coming in His appointed time to crush the head of Satan and bring redemption to a fallen humanity.

OLAADEGBU:
Are you scare that you might be losing your disciples?

Not at all. That should rather be your own fear. The truth is gaining ground daily. We are raising sons to glory.

Here are some answers from past post that you either glossed over or did not see.

Back to the Opening Post. The following verses of Scriptures proves to me that the Apostles were born again during the earthly ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this is reflected in the prayer He prayed for them when He was yet to be crucified and resurrected.
 
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. -- John 17:2-6

It's on a promissory note. He has written a will. This car is yours , this house is yours . But the man has to die first before you can lay hold on the house.

Hebrews 9:16-18
16 For where there is a [last] will and testament involved, the death of the one who made it must be established, 17 For a will and testament is valid and takes effect only at death, since it has no force or legal power as long as the one who made it is alive. 18 So even the [old] first covenant (God's will) was not inaugurated and ratified and put in force without the shedding of blood.


Jesus didn't function in the new testament. The salvation package is in the new testament. Which was ratified by his blood. The lamb of God didnt take away sin by preaching. He took away Sin by his death.

Here you see our Lord, Jesus Christ with what is called the "high priestly prayer," that He offered at night when He was approaching His appointed hour. He said in His prayers what eternal life means and that He has given it to His Apostles as well as His disciples. Does this not mean that the Apostles were born again as at the time Jesus was praying for them? Jesus said again in verse 6, that these disciples whom the Father has given to Him have kept His Word. Is this not telling us that these disciples were born again?

Why was he praying for them to be one in him? .  He has to come into us. He wasnt in them yet. The life is in christ. When he comes into a person. He supplants the old life. Being born again is not about following religious dogma but having a new recreated spirit.The holy spirit has to bring Jesus into a man because the life is in christ.

1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

The apostles didn't believe Jesus would rise from the dead. They believed he came from God, he had the teaching of life.but the key thing about the life is his death. They didn't have faith in his death.

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

He didn't just come to preach, he came to die. That is where life begins for the church .

John 12:32-33
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.


Man was only reconciled through his death. Not through his preaching.

Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. -- John 17:7-9

If this does not mean that they were born again then I don't know what it means. Note the difference between the world and those that belong to the Father.

They were his disciples. They stuck with him despite all the false accusation. They believed he came from God and saviour of israel. They served with him.But remember he had over 120 disciples. Not just the twelve. Why would he get only 12 born again ? What about the 70 he sent out.the twelve only were closer to him . And among them he still had 3 that seem to be inner caucus members. That doesn't have anything  to do with salvation. It's a relationship thing .God is not a respecter of men. There's no preference. This goes for the rest of your post.

@ OLAADEGBU
Please l am yet to get a response from you as regards you thoughts about my posts responding to the wonderful reference you sited from John 5:24. Please find ti mn e to reply. Thank you

^^^Hmmm let me guess. . .he's reading up some lengthy article to copy and paste here for us or . . .mmm he might just come around swinging his 'false prophet' axe, showing links  containing lies and false accusations against God's annointed.
well, here he comes . . . .

donnie:
When Did The Disciples (Peter, James, John And The Rest) Become Born-again?

Was it when Jesus called them, when he died, when he rose or when the Holy Spirit came on penticost? Or were they ever born again?

It is my desire that this topic will lead to better understanding of who we are as New Creations in Christ

He that thinketh he standeth should take heed lest he falls. This used to be donnie back in the days.

OLAADEGBU:
He that thinketh he standeth should take heed lest he falls. This used to be donnie back in the days.

SHAME... escapist mentality.
You run away from your threads and go digging up ancient posts, hoping it will cleanse your guilt.
Trust me, you will achieve the opposite.

donnie:
^^^Hmmm let me guess. . .he's reading up some lengthy article to copy and paste here for us or . . .mmm he might just come around swinging his 'false prophet' axe, showing links  containing lies and false accusations against God's annointed.
well, here he comes . . . .

Is this where your doctrine has led you to?

OLAADEGBU:
Is this where your doctrine has led you to?

Christians don't know YAH's statutes, it is hidden from them.

donnie:
@ Jo agbaje

Word

@ Olaadegbu

I used to love reading your posts. All those your fantastic illustrations of biblical truths such as, personal salvation, the Lordship of Jesus, christian living, End times and so on.

These days I dont know what to think anymore. It is like you are becoming bored with being an inspiration and a positive influence.

You now crave to belong in the class of Kunleosob, nuclearboy etc who are neither here nor there.
If you investigate, you'll find that they are not grounded in the truth. They do not belong to any church. . . neither are they submitted to any pastor or spiritual authority. They do not know the Lord.

Do not be carried away by their error. Remember your first love, Continue the good work that you are doing and shun carnality.

Only if you had taken a dose of the medication you were prescribing here.

nuclearboy:
^^

Submission to Christ, not to a vain bleached hair-dresser swivel-hipped fraudster
Trust in God, not endless bleating about "dominion" whist manipulating the poor to eat
A life of discipline, not noisy lies and postulations whist indulging in wanton sin

Meanwhile, Azi-baby and mab-cobra are goodluck's cousins according to "pastor" Jo - what of you? I'm sure you are Clifford Orji's twin

Others on this forum like this post had warned CE members before now. See what donnie has turned out to be.

Ndipe:
This is my first time of seeing a picture of TB Joshua aligning Christianity (the 'effigy' of Jesus Christ on the cross) along with a quranic inscription that proclaims the deity of allah? Quite shocking. Jojogabe, is that where you worship?

As we speak many are still blindly following that charlatan.

Joagbaje:
Ask your friend how many years ago that picture was taken. Maybe 20 years ago. Spirituality is not it the outward pretence. It is the devil that dwells on a man's past. Does tb Joshua still believe that jehovah is allah till now? . Knowledge increase everyday . How can a man be digging a past that God has forgotten? We still have many christian today that still believe God is Allah. I thought so too until i read a book ." Who is this Allah?".

Because a man made an inscription on the wall many years ago, we won't let him rest? Is the inscritption still there? This action is typical of these religious people. Even when God forgives a man of an error , a religious man will not let go. How can a spiritual chritian be digging an old picture ? I hope he won't dig up in people commit in their childhood days?

Where is Joagbaje nowadays?

OLAADEGBU:
As we speak many are still blindly following that charlatan.

I read it is fake. That someone maliciously inserted that quaranic inscription to make it appear as if TB Joshua did.

Enigma:
Heretics praying for other people's "doctrinal amendment"! What will we not see?

Anyway, our Ọga talk am say they will go long distances to make a proselyte and turn him into twice the child of hell as themselves. 'Nuff said!

Spot on.

free123:
Replying jo is like wasting one's time. The same who claimed to know scriptures is the same Jo who said it is wrong to pray through Jesus. And when rebuked and corrected left the thread in shame, even his co proponent, newmi could not disagree with his mentor(oyaks) in public when subjected to the strictest proof by Enigma.
Who knows how many tens of thousands this statement (it is wrong to pray through Jesus) has led astray?

Where are those charlatans today? They have vanished into the thin air.

Ndipe:
He really did say that? I was just shocked to see a picture of a pastor quoting koranic messages along the effigy of Jesus Christ.

Many so called Christians would rationalise it the way the likes of Jo and donnie are doing here.

nuclearboy:
^^^ Okada-man:

You & your spare-parts brother from the same father (oyaks AKA junior tb joshua AKA vanity) can keep deluding yourselves laughing - it shows the holes in your head. Soon all will be made open to all and you will slink away like your father satan has always done. You only keep showing that your only purpose is support for the head of your team here and that you have no mind or personal thought process. So I'm not much bothered by your asinine outburst - low intellect will always manifest.

@Ndipe:

Thank you for your observation. They earn salaries from the fraud they sell and thus dare not counter such at risk of going hungry. The okada driver is especially bad - lazy, myopic, perverted people who think Religion is a means to personal wealth.

The bolded above has come to pass.

@Pentecost!

OLAADEGBU:
Only if you had taken a dose of the medication you were prescribing here.

Okay, so now you finally realize It's really Donnie making you uncomfortable here. Continue with your stupidity.

donnie:
When Did The Disciples (Peter, James, John And The Rest) Become Born-again?

Was it when Jesus called them, when he died, when he rose or when the Holy Spirit came on penticost? Or were they ever born again?

It is my desire that this topic will lead to better understanding of who we are as New Creations in Christ

Wow.. what happened to this dude!

OLAADEGBU:
Spot on.

See the thread you ran away from...

OLAADEGBU:
Words of Comfort: Not to save men...

In speaking of the Ten Commandments, D. L. Moody said, "God, being a perfect God, had to give a perfect Law, and the Law was given not to save men, but to measure them. I want you to understand this clearly, because I believe hundreds and thousands stumble at this point. They try to save themselves by trying to keep the Law; but it was never meant for men to save themselves by."

To see the Law's power to do this, do the test:

www.needGod.com

donnie:
I know Christianity never taught you about those who keep the Commandments and have the testimony of the MESSIAH.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of ELOHIYM, and have the testimony of YAHUSHA HAMASHIYAH.

And that's because Christianity is not meant to prepare people for the kingdom.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Even during the millennium, we will keep the law, so you might as well start now. MESSIAH will teach and enforce the law in the Kingdom. The Feast days will be mandatory for all. So you can't escape it if you plan on entering.

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith YAHUAH.

Zechariah 14:16
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, YAHUAH SABAOTH, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Micah 4:1-2
[1]But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of YAHUAH shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
[2]And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of YAHUAH, and to the house of the ELOHIYM of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of YAHUAH from Jerusalem. -Micah 4:1-2

D. L. Moody a gentile prophet cannot teach Israelites about the kingdom or salvation. YAHUAH is the ELOHIYM of ISRAEL.

If you are ISRAELITE and you live and believe the lies of gentile teachers, you will perish with the rest of the world.

I am waiting to see where you will run to next. You can go as far as 2005 I will follow you there with this truth.

OLAADEGBU:
As we speak many are still blindly following that charlatan.

See who dey call someone charlatan, when na the same boat carry all of una. You're all Baal worshippers. Just that you are more hyporcritical than others.

newmi:
Clever thought but please my dear let us not get things complicated this was a promise to come into effect after His death and resurection like we read in
Hebrews 9:15- "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth"
Please read and understand

You mean to say that the words of Jesus had no effect on His hearers until after His death and resurrection?

donnie:
SHAME... escapist mentality.
You run away from your threads and go digging up ancient posts, hoping it will cleanse your guilt.
Trust me, you will achieve the opposite.

People should learn from what happened to those having itching ears as they will end up just like you.

Ndipe:
I read it is fake. That someone maliciously inserted that quaranic inscription to make it appear as if TB Joshua did.

Did you believe that it was maliciously inserted despite the link I posted or you are just a sucker for false doctrines?

OLAADEGBU:
People should learn from what happened to those having itching ears as they will end up just like you.

Really?