₦airaland Forum

It's now becoming very fashionable to bash and denigrate poor people. Especially on social media. Nairaland inclusive.

On a thread on Nairaland FrontPage is a topic that bashes poor people for their decision to marry. The OP used an example of a poor mechanic he helped with 10k to prove why it certainly the fault of the mechanic to remain poor. After all, 'he chose to marry while still being poor'.

Then some other commentors hailed the points he made as being very valid: 'of course it's his fault that he has remained poor! Idiot!!'

The OP has failed to consider the bigger picture here. So what grey areas has the OP and the other supporting commentors failed to understand?

1) Nigeria is generally a low income country in relation to many affluent countries of the world. This bigger issue would surely translate into more poverty per capital. No matter how you check it, until Nigeria system is cleaned up, the poverty is going to affect real people, married or not.

2) The OP and the others said that being poor and getting married means that the man is actually a nonentity and ignoramus. Well, if this is true, we can also extrapolate this fact to mean every married Nigerian. Why? In relation to other countries, Nigeria is a very very low income country. So if you are in this poor nation and married, no matter your personal wealth, you are a very foolish individual - nationally.

3) Many wealthy European countries, and Asian countries were once poor. In the last 100 down to 50 years, some of these countries were poor or were being plunged into poverty. And during this time their men were marrying and not giving up marriage because of economic challenges.

What got them out of general poverty is system change not 'freedom' from marriage.

4) The OP forgot a vital truth, a poor man is more likely to be more physically and emotionally drained than a well-to-do individual. And emotional and physical attention is what a marriage has promised him? Will he not take it? (If he even has the opportunity!) Will he exist poor, and helpless too?

5) OP forgot that a poor demographic has lower asses to proper education and sources of knowledge, which includes traveling. And these deprivations contribute to keeping him poor.

6) Is it true to charge that the Bible's injunction that a "man who finds a wife obtains a blessing from Jehovah" is a deceit?

Actually it's both a mistake of what the Bible says and an insult to women.

That place did not say that a marriage is a magical door to material blessings. It actually says that a wife IS a blessing, not that she is the DOOR to a blessing.

How IS a wife a blessing? Consider just three:

i) Dignify both a wealthy and a poor man, bringing him more respect and acknowledgement in the society.

ii) Provides support, physically, emotionally, mentally, and so forth.

iii) It's easier for a modern woman to raise kids alone than it is for a modern man. So a wife provides the needed child raising support for the man. Wealthy or not
And so forth


These types of woke bashing of poor people is actually understandable. In a nation of large number of illiterates, the ones that are in the know would often in a way or the other try to show their 'superior' knowledge, often at the expense of their poorer neighbours. It's their emotional crutch, and a form of prejudice. Wealth and knowledge prejudice.

Fight the system that causes these problems, not the victims!

The real fight should be against the corrupted system, and quit being distracted by half-truths!!!

ok

sincerely speaking, i dont think, you understood what the writer wrote.

for every rational man, getting married without financial backup and stable income is the easiest road to suffering and poverty.

Also try to born kids you can take care of.

Anyway, being poor is not a virtue.

It's unfortunate

Your write up is filled with emotion and sentiments...but the reality is a venture such as marriage goes against just living up to societal expectations and self satisfaction, financial stability is paramount.

Firstnebo:
It's now becoming very fashionable to bash and denigrate....

A perfect response. 'Privilege' is a term we should never overlook. Who wouldn't love to become Nigeria's president? A man who is financially wretched is aware of the situation and would welcome anything to alter poverty. Because you can't afford a car doesn't mean you shouldn't explore the next neighborhood by foot. Nevertheless, I would advise against involving oneself in a demanding commitment such as marriage if you aren't financially buoyant.

In my opinion the OP of that particular thread didn't actually insult poor people rather he only questioned the rationale behind getting entangled whilst not being financially balanced.

I am not defending the op position because I am rich. Far from it, I am not rich. I came from a home synonymous to the scenarios he described; swam against all odds and graduated. It's not as if the journey has been smooth but at the end, we all have to start from somewhere and hope we will arrive one day.

The point that Op never truly understand is that no one wants to be willing poor or irresponsible. A man's natural instinct when it comes to family is to protect, provide and striving to leave a good legacy. This brings me to the guy looking for a job and he gave a lift. That guy is a symbol of most Nigerian graduates trying to escape internet fraud, unemployment, lazyness and all sorts of crime just to earn a living.

.

That thread did not bash poor people.How did you come to that conclusion?

I think what he's trying to say is that people have to make more responsible decisions and not start chaining themselves with more responsibilities than they can handle.

A single man will just be worried about feeding himself alone..once a wife joins in and is incapacitated financially,headache sets in.

Your points on the roles of a wife are romantic and idealistic. Real human needs are food ,clothing and shelter.

Dignifying a person won't put food on the table

Support will not pay rent..only cold hard cash will.

You are underestimating the role of finances in any marital setting.

2 people who have no source of income and living together will at some point become enemies if their condition does not improve.

I understand that you want a better fairer world ,but this sort of idealism pushes lots of people to frustration,claiming wife ( who is supposed to be a good favour bringing thing)is the source of their downfall leading to spurious witchcraft allegations as seen in a thread not too long ago.

If 2 consenting adults agree to marry while not being financially capable,that's great as long as they do not add kids they CANNOT cater for to the equation.

Unfortunately,these 2 adult will most likely have multiple children and that is where a huge amount of the problems start flooding in.

Children are outside hawking instead of being in school,some young girls have turned to prostituting to provide for their parents, young boys in the market pushing barrows to help their parents.What sort of life is this.If these children had a choice,would they agree to be born into these circumstances?

Their parents HAD a choice to keep it in their pants or at least use protection but they refused(because children bring blessings).

The economy is hard now so people's generosity,empathy and good will is drying up so anyone asking others to support relationships they willingly entered will probably meet a lot of hostility.

@Firstnebo

This is a very good piece of writing and you raised many valid points. I also appreciate your final message in which you say that people should be fighting the system and not the victims.

When I saw the thread I didn't understand why people would treat marriage and procreation as one and the same thing. You can have one without the other. You can get married and not give birth at all or at least control the number of children you are going to have. Is the system so broken that we can't make birth control accessible and teach couples about family planning?

I also don't see how the richer folks think that they can ride the moral high horse when the high number of children born every year is not only a problem in terms of poverty but also a problem to the ecosystem.

BlewLemon:
In my opinion the OP of that particular thread didn't actually insult poor people rather he only questioned the rationale behind getting entangled whilst not being financially balanced.

Read the comments on the thread not only the OP.

What other people do not know is that the owner of that thread has personal problem and may not be able to marry all through his life. He is trying so hard to discourage as many people as possible from getting married just to be like him who among other things has difficulty keeping relationship with women.

He has an agenda, but not anyone of the contributors of that thread were able to see it. Forget about the story in his thread.

poiunt:
sincerely speaking, i dont think, you understood what the writer wrote.

for every rational man, getting married without financial backup and stable income is the easiest road to suffering and poverty.

Also try to born kids you can take care of.

Anyway, being poor is not a virtue.

You're wrong about that..
You need to sit with elders/wise people.
Everything in life have stages.
If the time for marriage comes, either you're rich or poor, that marriage will be your ultimate goal.
Take it or leave it, being poor and getting married are two different things.
I read the other thread about the OP who say a guy trekking to a long distance and he helped him with a lift and subsequently with 10k.

You have raised strong points here especially the part you said a poor man still deserves companionship in the Form of a wife.

My personal reservation is this, that is very valid however they should consciously make decision on whether to have kids or how many. As two adults, they stand better chance at life tgda. That being said, having a child despite being a blessing does slow down the pace cos the woman has to take time off to birth ad raise the child and when she resumes work, has to keep the child somewhere and pay for day care or school, so having a child is not a walk in the park.

My Pastor rightly said poor idle people have more children cos they sit around doing nothing, so the likely hood of just procreating is high reason nigeria is highly populated.

So my point, a "poor" man should follow intentional actions and not just have children because he can.

This was at the tip of my tongue.
I don’t know why more people don’t get married and keep child bearing at bay until they can afford it.
We should normalize having children ONLY when we can cater for them. Kids are a huge responsibility in marriage.

Imagine if two poor people got married and decide to wait a few years before kids, then no one has to sit at home waiting for the struggles of the other to feed the family. Maybe they can both hustle together to save for when they start having children. If they have no food to eat on certain days, it will be more bearable because there are no teary eyed kids waiting helplessly for food.

All that rush to bring children into suffering. I don’t get it.

Hathor5:
@Firstnebo

This is a very good piece of writing and you raised many valid points. I also appreciate your final message in which you say that people should be fighting the system and not the victims.

When I saw the thread I didn't understand why people would treat marriage and procreation as one and the same thing. You can have one without the other. You can get married and not give birth at all or at least control the number of children you are going to have. Is the system so broken that we can't make birth control accessible and teach couples about family planning?

I also don't see how the richer folks think that they can ride the moral high horse when the high number of children born every year is not only a problem in terms of poverty but also a problem to the ecosystem.

Op the poster of particular thread you made reference to didn't bash poor people( maybe some of the comments did bash poor people) but you are right that poor people are being bashed everywhere.

Some seem to think they have it all figured out but you see life can be very funny.

They can't seem to grasp why this person/ friend has not gotten to a particular level in life, they can't understand that things might just go haywire at some point irrespective of how financially secure the person thinks he/she is.

Some are born in poverty and they live and might die in poverty.
Some are born in wealth, they will live in wealth and end up dying poor.
Some born in poverty will end up in wealth.
Some born into wealth will live in wealth and even leave wealth for their grandchildren to inherit.

Life will teach some people. Nobody wants to be poor, no one plans to be poor but the poor will always be among us and these are things some people will never understand.

@Firstnebo:

I read the original thread that birthed this. While I disagree with some of his points, he made a lot of sense.

If you are poor, it makes no sense to continue in patterns that will make that poverty generational.

If you are born poor, then you need to have a plan to take you out of it.

Not taking your academics/handiwork seriously or frolicking with men/women is not part of it.

Keep your head down, figure out what you can do to break forth and work at it whilst praying for grace & mercy.

Also, if you get married in that state, more than one or two kids is gross irresponsibility except they are multiple births.

There is also the undeniable place of grace and favour which should find something blessable in your hands.

Microwhy:
You're wrong about that..
You need to sit with elders/wise people.
Everything in life have stages.
If the time for marriage comes, either you're rich or poor, that marriage will be your ultimate goal.
Take it or leave it, being poor and getting married are two different things.
I read the other thread about the OP who say a guy trekking to a long distance and he helped him with a lift and subsequently with 10k.

anyway, you can do whatever you like but i pity you if you think you can marry without getting prepared financially.

Even Jesus, whether you believe He is God, a god, a prophet, a great teacher, whichever, even Jesus said "the poor will always be with us"

Even in a poor remote village, there are still people there considered poor by others who themselves admit they are poor.

So should those who are poor not aspire to something? Anything? Should they not hope that by getting married they would be able to achieve....something? That something may not be clear, may not even make sense to you and I, but it is all they can hope for. Afterall, hope without which, men die.

Should they not aspire to getting....something, anything, in their state of despair and hopelessness? Even if only the love and companionship of yet another person who may just be as poor or even poorer than them?

Should they be denied the hope that maybe their children would be able to break the cycle of poverty they have found themselves in? And be kept from having children because they are poor and in a cycle of poverty?

To quote Gandalf, "even the wise cannot see all ends"

I have a question though. How "comfortable", how "stable", how much in earnings can be considered as enough to go ahead to get married and not be considered as too poor for marriage?

Cc
Cococandy
Bukatyne
Firstnebo
Yvelchstores
Bigsarah
Takotsubo
poiunt
Hathor5

LewsTherin:
Even Jesus, whether you believe He is God, a god, a prophet, a great teacher, whichever, even Jesus said "the poor will always be with us"

Even in a poor remote village, there are still people there considered poor by others who themselves admit they are poor.

So should those who are poor not aspire to something? Anything? Should they not hope that by getting married they would be able to achieve....something? That something may not be clear, may not even make sense to you and I, but it is all they can hope for. Afterall, hope without which, men die.

Should they not aspire to getting....something, anything, in their state of despair and hopelessness? Even if only the love and companionship of yet another person who may just be as poor or even poorer than them?

Should they be denied the hope that maybe their children would be able to break the cycle of poverty they have found themselves in? And be kept from having children because they are poor and in a cycle of poverty?

To quote Gandalf, "even the wise cannot see all ends"

I have a question though. How "comfortable", how "stable", how much in earnings can be considered as enough to go ahead to get married and not be considered as too poor for marriage?

Cc
Cococandy
Bukatyne
Firstnebo
Yvelchstores
Bigsarah
Takotsubo
poiunt
Hathor5

I will just say this

Being Poor is not a virtue in present day earth.

A man need to be prepared financially to get married, a good and stable income is very important.

Isnt it stupidity for a poor man having 3 or 4 kids?

Why bring them to come suffer, as they say, cut your coat according to your size.

poiunt:
I will just say this

Being Poor is not a virtue in present day earth.

A man need to be prepared financially to get married, a good and stable income is very important.

Isnt it stupidity for a poor man having 3 or 4 kids?

Why bring them to come suffer, as they say, cut your coat according to your size.

I do not dissagree with you at all. But how much? What level of income is stable income?

LewsTherin:
Even Jesus, whether you believe He is God, a god, a prophet, a great teacher, whichever, even Jesus said "the poor will always be with us"

Even in a poor remote village, there are still people there considered poor by others who themselves admit they are poor.

So should those who are poor not aspire to something? Anything? Should they not hope that by getting married they would be able to achieve....something? That something may not be clear, may not even make sense to you and I, but it is all they can hope for. Afterall, hope without which, men die.

Should they not aspire to getting....something, anything, in their state of despair and hopelessness? Even if only the love and companionship of yet another person who may just be as poor or even poorer than them?

Should they be denied the hope that maybe their children would be able to break the cycle of poverty they have found themselves in? And be kept from having children because they are poor and in a cycle of poverty?

To quote Gandalf, "even the wise cannot see all ends"

I have a question though. How "comfortable", how "stable", how much in earnings can be considered as enough to go ahead to get married and not be considered as too poor for marriage?

Wealth and poverty are relative. What sounds poor to one person might be life changing for another.
In my opinion as long as you can take care of your offspring, then you’ve earned the right to bear them.

You don’t have to be able to afford western education, vacations, luxury lifestyle etc for them.

Just keep them safe, fed, clothed and happy. Not slaving their childhood away trying to earn money to help their families when they should be merry and care free children.

LewsTherin:
Even Jesus, whether you believe He is God, a god, a prophet, a great teacher, whichever, even Jesus said "the poor will always be with us"

Even in a poor remote village, there are still people there considered poor by others who themselves admit they are poor.

So should those who are poor not aspire to something? Anything? Should they not hope that by getting married they would be able to achieve....something? That something may not be clear, may not even make sense to you and I, but it is all they can hope for. Afterall, hope without which, men die.

Should they not aspire to getting....something, anything, in their state of despair and hopelessness? Even if only the love and companionship of yet another person who may just be as poor or even poorer than them?

Should they be denied the hope that maybe their children would be able to break the cycle of poverty they have found themselves in? And be kept from having children because they are poor and in a cycle of poverty?

To quote Gandalf, "even the wise cannot see all ends"

I have a question though. How "comfortable", how "stable", how much in earnings can be considered as enough to go ahead to get married and not be considered as too poor for marriage?

I think it is the recent lust for materialism and lack of contentment that makes people preach 'financial stability' before marriage.

While it is good to be 'financially stable', not everyone would be.

I think the goal should be to teach everyone financial responsibility, contentment and financial intelligence.

So that their N1 or N10 can go a long way.

And the need to have very few kids aka one or two.

What 'kills' most poor people is the number of kids they have.

I have seen comparable poor people and the number of kids (2 kids vs 5 kids) made a whole world of difference.

Heiterkeit:
What other people do not know is that the owner of that thread has personal problem and may not be able to marry all through his life. He is trying so hard to discourage as many people as possible from getting married just to be like him who among other things has difficulty keeping relationship with women.

He has an agenda, but not anyone of the contributors of that thread were able to see it. Forget about the story in his thread.

Hahahahaha

poiunt:
I will just say this

Being Poor is not a virtue in present day earth.

A man need to be prepared financially to get married, a good and stable income is very important.

Isnt it stupidity for a poor man having 3 or 4 kids?

Why bring them to come suffer, as they say, cut your coat according to your size.

Whether poverty is a virtue or not, there will be much more poor people than rich people.

Heiterkeit:
What other people do not know is that the owner of that thread has personal problem and may not be able to marry all through his life. He is trying so hard to discourage as many people as possible from getting married just to be like him who among other things has difficulty keeping relationship with women.

He has an agenda, but not anyone of the contributors of that thread were able to see it. Forget about the story in his thread.

Chai!

How did you come to this conclusion?

It's only people who haven't witnessed, first-hand, savvy and erudite multibillionaires turn to paupers within almost twinkle of eyes, and paupers with grit and grace who've risen from obscurity to not just wealthy but also influential people, that will always cast aspersions on the kind of person under discussion and his marital and reasonable reproduction choices.

Many a time, it takes grit rather than ignorance or arrogance to begin such phase of life in such an unfavourable fate.
So, personally, I'll always accord maximum regard to people who've his kind of grit, provided that they acted on self-conviction/conscientiously. Don't count him off until he dies.

With grit, definiteness of purpose and good support system/grace, which can come from anywhere and anytime, that same man may become economically better than 99 percent of you within less than 1 year, all things being equal.

bukatyne:
Whether poverty is a virtue or not, there will be much more poor people than rich people.

That is in Nigeria. In a sane society The middle class is more than the poor

Okay on a serious note, Op you are right, and the other guy's thread is valid too, thing is there should be a balance in marriage, you can't stop a certain class of people from having kids, instead, educate them on birth control, family planning etc.

Personally I wish F.G should go the Chinese way, 2 kids to a family, cos we will soon have population explosion.

bukatyne:
I think it is the recent lust for materialism and lack of contentment that makes people preach 'financial stability' before marriage.

While it is good to be 'financially stable', not everyone would be.

I think the goal should be to teach everyone financial responsibility, contentment and financial intelligence.

So that their N1 or N10 can go a long way.

And the need to have very few kids aka one or two.

What 'kills' most poor people is the number of kids they have.

I have seen comparable poor people and the number of kids (2 kids vs 5 kids) made a whole world of difference.

I will like to ask you a question

who will you go for in marriage

A financially stable man or a man without income aka Poor man?

Pls answer my question without being bias

LewsTherin:
I do not dissagree with you at all. But how much? What level of income is stable income?

100K as a man, if your wife is working also, then combine income will help in moving the family to the next level

Also just because you have 100k does not mean that you should born kids like rat

At least on a 100k salary or a combine income of 170k , one kid should be enough until when their is improvement in circumstances.

NoToPile:
Op the poster of particular thread you made reference to didn't bash poor people( maybe some of the comments did bash poor people) but you are right that poor people are being bashed everywhere.

Some seem to think they have it all figured out but you see life can be very funny.

They can't seem to grasp why this person/ friend has not gotten to a particular level in life, they can't understand that things might just go haywire at some point irrespective of how financially secure the person thinks he/she is.

Some are born in poverty and they live and might die in poverty.
Some are born in wealth, they will live in wealth and end up dying poor.
Some born in poverty will end up in wealth.
Some born into wealth will live in wealth and even leave wealth for their grandchildren to inherit.

Life will teach some people. Nobody wants to be poor, no one plans to be poor but the poor will always be among us and these are things some people will never understand.

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