Sulele04:

i dont really blame you and timbros, you dont know what is called dm.
ampadu in that dm role we would have won the game.
backpassginho is not physical, nor fast, nor tenative. At fault for wijnaldum goal( ball watching, poor reaction) at fault for ox goal.
without these errors we would have won.
i know for sure he wont be at chelsea next season

The use of a DM depends on the formation and system played. In a 343, what you have is two CM's who are flanked by wingbacks. The problem is that kovacic is quite bad at marking and ball recovery too, exposing the inadequacy of jorginho.
The problem we are having is that both of them are not complementing themselves at all. They are both poor without the ball thereby exposing us to dangerous counters.

donjazet:


Tell that to all the professional football analysts and statisticians who have rated jorginho as one of our best performers today, even above kovacic.
Your agenda must agendate.

You are quick to point out his errors but blind to the way he orchestrated most of our attacks from the base, constantly switching plays to both ends and creating spaces for other attackers. You have to look at the player objectively and not from your prejudiced lens.

Go and argue with opta, whoscored, skysports and other reliable outlets that rated jorginho well. You are obviously more professional than them.

These ratings are tallied on tangible statistics - passes made, tackles made, key passes, dribbles completed, goals, assists etc

One thing they don't measure is escorting - knowing that a player should be in a certain position at a certain time is something a computer can never tell you.

The computer probably even counted Escortinhos attempted block on Robertson as just a missed interception, while we count it as an egregious error.

This is what humans think of your computer rating

kingBolton:

Jorginho rated higher than kovacic
The jokes write themselves

kingBolton:

I know our defence is bad, but kepa makes them look worse.
He doesn't command his box, he is also one of our problem with set piece

I'm sure he makes them at least 50% worse than they should be.

Roland17:


What of FBS and Mount Zion?

Sir, do you have a problem?

All to play for now.

Ibime:


These ratings are tallied on tangible statistics - passes made, tackles made, key passes, dribbles completed, goals, assists etc

One thing they don't measure is escorting - knowing that a player should be in a certain position at a certain time is something a computer can never tell you.
The computer probably even counted Escortinhos attempted block on Robertson as just a missed tackle, while we count it as an egregious error.

This is what humans think of your computer rating

I have told you this before; no player is complete or without shortcomings, that's why football is a team sports.

For jorginho to be highly rated by most reliable sports outlet indicate that he did a lot of things right. His midfield partner is supposed to cover for his errors, and the ratings and stats show that he was sub-par behind jorginho.
Why then are you blaming jorginho alone?

Kovacic conceded two of the fouls that led to goals and was carded which has become a staple feature of his game but I don't see you hounding him the way you do to jorginho.
it's clear you have an agenda against the guy like you did with Drogba, Iniesta and fabregas.

donjazet:


I have told you this before; no player is complete or without shortcomings, that's why football is a team sports.

For jorginho to be highly rated by most reliable sports outlet indicate that he did a lot if things right. His midfield partner is supposed to cover for his errors, and the ratings and stats show that he was sub-par behind jorginho.
Why then are you blaming jorginho alone?

Kovacic conceded two of the fouls that led to goals and was carded which has become a staple feature of his game but I don't see you hounding him the way you do to jorginho.
it's clear you have an agenda against the guy like you did with Drogba, Iniesta and fabregas.

These are not qualitative ratings, these are compilation of statistics with no human input and there is no statistic for escorting which is our main grouse with Jorginho.

Yes, I have an agenda against the guy - my agenda is that my football club can never compete at top level with such escort, same as everyone else on this thread except you and Timbros. Even BlueAngel don switch camp within a week.

We already know Timbros is a faithful person so we can excuse him. Just like he held on to Morata till the day Morata left. Don't be like Timbros.

BlueAngel444:
Jorginho beginning of season would have made that tackle and collected the card. It seems he really want to leave Chelsea. Honestly it's like he is doing it purposely. Mehn the board should do the needful, he is a good player but all he is good for now is cash to get other players. Like how Oscar became

donjazet:


The use of a DM depends on the formation and system played. In a 343, what you have is two CM's who are flanked by wingbacks. The problem is that kovacic is quite bad at marking and ball recovery too, exposing the inadequacy of jorginho.
The problem we are having is that both of them are not complementing themselves at all. They are both poor without the ball thereby exposing us to dangerous counters.

In a midfield two, there is nothing like passenger. When one midfielder press the left side, the opponent switch ball across and the other midfielder has to press the rightside in tandem -like a pendulum, pressing from side to side. Nobody is there to cover the other person's laziness.

Kovacic was working for two men. This was exemplified in Liverpool's second goal where Kovacic had hounded Mane from LCM to RCM, and even hounded Mane into the path of Escortinho. All Escortinho needed to do was put his body across the ball and take it from Mane, but he failed to do that, forcing Kovacic to continue chasing Mane from behind back to LCM position (where he just chased him from), finally resulting in having to lunge at Mane from behind for the freekick.

Ibime:


These are not qualitative ratings, these are compilation of statistics with no human input and there is no statistic for escorting which is our main grouse with Jorginho.

Yes, I have an agenda against the guy - my agenda is that my football club can never compete at top level with such escort, same as everyone else on this thread except you and Timbros. Even BlueAngel don switch camp within a week.

We already know Timbros is a faithful person so we can excuse him. Just like he held on to Morata till the day Morata left. Don't be like Timbros.

When i defend jorginho, I don't do it from a position of personal or emotional attachment. I am not someone who will praise someone today and castigate the person unfairly tomorrow. We Chelsea fans are famed for that. Look at courtois who we constantly bashed here as fans. Look at him now performing very well for the most prestigious club.

When we signed jorginho, we were happy here even though we knew he wasnt strong defensively. We knew what to expect in terms of controlling the midfield, We knew that he would have to be paired with a better hardworker like kante for our midfield to be efficient.

He is still acing his primary attributes which is dictating our attacks and controlling the midfield via passes. You constantly highlighting only his defensive errors is unfair, especially considering that we all knew this was never his strength.

Alonso, Kepa and Jorginho should look for another team, next season. The trio are annoying to my eyes, the most.

airmark:
Alonso, Kepa and Jorginho should look for another team, next season. The trio are annoying to my eyes, the most.

Bro, i thought you support Munchen

Tundexi:


Bro, i thought you support Munchen

No.

donjazet:


Tell that to all the professional football analysts and statisticians who have rated jorginho as one of our best performers today, even above kovacic.
Your agenda must agendate.

You are quick to point out his errors but blind to the way he orchestrated most of our attacks from the base, constantly switching plays to both ends and creating spaces for other attackers. You have to look at the player objectively and not from your prejudiced lens.

Go and argue with opta, whoscored, skysports and other reliable outlets that rated jorginho well. You are obviously more professional than them.

Bring all the ratings in the world of football, Ibime must push his agenda...

I don't know when 'escorting' became a metric to measure a midfielder's game.

I don kuku comot mouth for the matter.

BlueAngel444:
Kepa is an ass, but see eh for those goals, I have seen those kinds gone in against the best of the best. Especially those first three. Keita, the free kick and the one from the corner.

Too bad we ain't linked to Pope . The best GK so far this seasom

Nah...Dean Henderson tops Pope this season

donjazet:


When i defend jorginho, I don't do it from a position of personal or emotional attachment. I am not someone who will praise someone today and castigate the person unfairly tomorrow. We Chelsea fans are famed for that. Look at courtois who we constantly bashed here as fans. Look at him now performing very well for the most prestigious club.

When we signed jorginho, we were happy here even though we knew he wasnt strong defensively. We knew what to expect in terms of controlling the midfield, We knew that he would have to be paired with a better hardworker like kante for our midfield to be efficient.

He is still acing his primary attributes which is dictating our attacks and controlling the midfield via passes. You constantly highlighting only his defensive errors is unfair, especially considering that we all knew this was never his strength.

We were all on the same page. The difference is knowing when to let go of dogma.

It is only worth carrying a defensive passenger if that guy can outpossess a Liverpool, Man City, Bayern Munich like Xavi or Xabi would do.

We did not buy Jorginho to increase our possession against Norwich from 65% to 70%. We will still beat Norwich with 65% possession that a Kante DM would bring, plus we'll have more defensive solidity.

Jorginho has not only failed in wrestling possession from other big teams but his defensive liability means we go into all big games now half expecting to lose. And if we do win, it's by parking the bus. . . which is not what we bought Jorginho for.

We will never be competitive in big games with Jorginho. It is better to have a workman like midfield like Liverpool that keep you in every game no matter the opponent than have a fake Xavi who loses you the big games before you step on the pitch, and can only form Xavi against Norwich

The Jorginho project has failed. He has nothing to offer that will be more successful than Kante, Kovacic and co playing their natural game. . . and nothing that should make us impede these other midfielders careers in order to create perfect conditions for Jorginho. He's had two years of perfect conditions. Gilmour booted him out with one performance. Thiago Alcantara showed in that midfield against Bayern that Jorginho is an Aba made playmaker, and Chelsea should not even think he is a playmaker to hinge success on against other heavyweights.

airmark:
Alonso, Kepa and Jorginho should look for another team, next season. The trio are annoying to my eyes, the most.

And Christensen. I am even starting to prefer Rudiger to Chris. Both can go but if only one must go, it should be Chris.

timbros:


Bring all the ratings in the world of football, Ibime must push his agenda...

I don't know when 'escorting' became a metric to measure a midfielder's game.

I don kuku comot mouth for the matter.

Escorting can be defined as failure in a midfielders bread and butter work of pressing opposition and tracking runners.

That's an important part of midfield play, don't you think?

How many goals did Chelsea chop today?
Zouma: Let's go

Giroud:

timbros:


Bring all the ratings in the world of football, Ibime must push his agenda...

I don't know when 'escorting' became a metric to measure a midfielder's game.
I don kuku comot mouth for the matter.

You dey mind am? Once he wants to discredit any midfielder, he would just start shouting escort, escort. This is the same thing he says for fabregas and Iniesta, now it's jorginho.
Professional analyst and pundits will rate players highly, an average fan will start inventing words to discredit the players.

This is how he has constantly berated world class players like Drogba, Iniesta and fabregas.
I'm only dedicating my time to defend jorginho because I know how easy gullible folks would fall for his agenda again.

Ibime:


Escorting can be defined as failure in a midfielders bread and butter work of pressing opposition and tracking runners.

That's an important part of midfield play, don't you think?

Then why haven't we heard the term in football since the beginning of time?

Why isn't there an accurate metric for analyzing the so-called "escorting"?

donjazet:


You dey mind am? Once he wants to discredit any midfielder, he would just start shouting escort, escort. This is the same thing he says for fabregas and Iniesta, now it's jorginho.

Correction. I never called Iniesta escort, I called him Eunuch for his inability to score or assist. He is far from an escort, he is a very good midfielder, I just don't believe in placing AM with such poor output as the best midfielder of his generation when I know if not for other people's goals that won him trophies, he will be just another good midfielder.

Anybody that isn't blaming Jorginho for our loss doesn't understand football.

Watch the highlights again and note Jorginho's positioning for all the goals.

Kepa self na idiot. Almost every shot at him is a goal. He has poor reflexes. His positioning is poor. His awareness is poor. He doesn't come out for aerial balls leading us to concede a lot of setpieces. The only thing is that he rarely makes those howlers that other keepers make thus making his mistakes less obvious. With a better keeper, we should have secured top 4 long ago.

I can't believe some scummies actually said they would prefer Kepa to De Gea. Spain is in hot soup if they can't find replacements for those two.

donjazet:


Then why haven't we heard the term in football since the beginning of time?

Why isn't there an accurate metric for analyzing the so-called "escorting"?

How would you have a metric for an intangible quality?

Ibime:


We were all on the same page. The difference is knowing when to let go of dogma.
It is only worth carrying a defensive passenger if that guy can outpossess a Liverpool, Man City, Bayern Munich like Xavi or Xabi would do.
We did not buy Jorginho to increase our possession against Norwich from 65% to 70%. We will still beat Norwich with 65% possession that a Kante DM would bring, plus we'll have more defensive solidity.

Jorginho has not only failed in wrestling possession from other big teams but his defensive liability means we go into all big games now half expecting to lose. And if we do win, it's by parking the bus. . . which is not what we bought Jorginho for.
We will never be competitive in big games with Jorginho. It is better to have a workman like midfield like Liverpool that keep you in every game no matter the opponent than have a fake Xavi who loses you the big games before you step on the pitch, and can only form Xavi against Norwich

The Jorginho project has failed. He has nothing to offer that will be more successful than Kante, Kovacic and co playing their natural game. . . and nothing that should make us impede these other midfielders careers in order to create perfect conditions for Jorginho. He's had two years of perfect conditions Gilmour booted him out with one performance. Thiago Alcantara showed in that midfield against Bayern that Jorginho is an Aba made playmaker, and Chelsea should not even think he is a playmaker to hinge success on against other heavyweights.

The bolded is a big lie that discredits your entire post.
How would you say that jorginho has had the perfect conditions in the past two years that has been characterized by managerial instability and a lit of experimental phases.

Look at how difficult it is for us to pinpoint our best player this season, because they have all been sub-par.
Stop laying the entire team's structural deficiency at the feet of only jorginho.

You lie again when you say jorginho doesn't really aid in the big matches. In the last two years, we have defeated ALL the big teams we've faced at one point or the other and even the ones we lost we did outpossess them.
Last season, jorginho broke a premier league record of the highest passes in a match and I think in a season. You won't point that out. You want to make it seem like he can't control the midfield, all for your agenda.

Jorginho has been in and out of the team at some points this season and we were still constantly conceding goals. Doesn't that tell you that our problem is structural and not just individualistic?

I believe that jorginho still has something to offer. He is a part of a unique puzzle that only a very good manager would see.

..
...

timbros:


Jorginho's job is to blow free kick when Kovacic won the ball. Jorginho's job is to stand rooted on the spot for TAA free kick. Jorginho's job is to let Kaita's outside 18 shot fly past him into the net.

He couldn't do all these, that's why we lost woefully.

Wise King Solomon.

Ibime:


Fück you bro!

C'mon now. Don't be hating.

donjazet:


The bolded is a big lie that discredits your entire post.
How would you say that jorginho has had the perfect conditions in the past two years that has been characterized by managerial instability and a lit of experimental phases.

Look at how difficult it is for us to pinpoint our best player this season, because they have all been sub-par.
Stop laying the entire team's structural deficiency at the feet of only jorginho.

You lie again when you say jorginho doesn't really aid in the big matches. In the last two years, we have defeated ALL the big teams we've faced at one point or the other and even the ones we lost we did outpossess them.
Last season, jorginho broke a premier league record of the highest passes in a match and I think in a season. You won't point that out. You want to make it seem like he can't control the midfield, all for your agenda.

Jorginho has been in and out of the team at some points this season and we were still constantly conceding goals. Doesn't that tell you that our problem is structural and not just individualistic?

I believe that jorginho still has something to offer. He is a part of a unique puzzle that only a very good manager would see.

The bolded is not a lie. Jorginho has been a constant in midfield for 2 years until he got himself suspended just before lockdown, and Gilmour booted him out in just 2 games while he was suspended.

Lampard did not drop Jorginho, infact he continued leaving Jorginho as DM and pushed Kante forward to accommodate. Infact he even made Jorginho vice captain.

So yes, Jorginho has had 2 years of perfect conditions and has failed. Lampard like me, must have got fed up of the Jorginho project during December to February run, and ditched the project just from seeing the difference to Gilmour.

Yes, Jorginho made the most passes last season, but against who though? The Newcastles of this world. Time to face Man City and co, we got overran in midfield and trashed 6-0. Even Bournemouth figured him out, put David Brooks to press him, trashed him and hammered us 4-0.

Jorginho has failed. He's been given everything. He can't cut it against big clubs.

afrodoc2:


C'mon now. Don't be hating.

Doc! We no come see your brakelight since Sunday

Ibime:


How would you have a metric for an intangible quality?

Then why are you the only one who seems to know how to detect this "escorting"?

It would be very easy to place this "escorting" tag on any midfielder when a goal is scored from counter.

Ibime:


The bolded is not a lie. Jorginho has been a constant in midfield for 2 years until he got himself suspended just before lockdown, and Gilmour booted him out in just 2 games while he was suspended.

Lampard did not drop Jorginho, infact he continued leaving Jorginho as DM and pushed Kante forward to accommodate. Infact he even made Jorginho vice captain.

So yes, Jorginho has had 2 years of perfect conditions and has failed. Lampard like me, must have got fed up of the Jorginho project during December to February run, and ditched the project just from seeing the difference to Gilmour.

Yes, Jorginho made the most passes last season, but against who though? The Newcastles of this world. Time to face Man City and co, we got overran in midfield and trashed 6-0. Even Bournemouth figured him out, put David Brooks to press him, trashed him and hammered us 4-0.

Jorginho has failed. He's been given everything. He can't cut it against big clubs.

Those results were aberrations and not the norm. You are also convienetly forgetting that we are the only team to outpossess mancity this season with jorginho in the team. Likewise Liverpool. We have won man-u, spurs, wolves and arsenal with jorginho in the team while also outpossessing them.

Once again, stop placing the entire team's problem at jorginho's feet.

We have outpossessed almost all the big teams we faced this season that is evidence of jorginho's work.