₦airaland Forum

Freshfish4:
Other African countries are seriously upgrading military arsenal, na this world war 1 stupid ancient refurbished jet we dey buy. How the might has fallen

Dalil8:
When are we getting F-16s and F-35s ffs

The money spent on these could get the latest fighter jets l

SmartyPants:
There is no sub-saharan African country with an Air Force on a par with Nigeria other than South Africa.

I challenge you to name one.

You don't buy expensive aircraft merely to say you have bought expensive aircraft. You buy the ones that fit your needs. Nigeria is battling Boko Haram who do not have air capabilities and this these jets are suitable.

naptu2:
2014 was not long ago, neither was 2018, so why are people confused about who bought the Super Tucano?

In fact, I made a post about the about turn that many people made on this site in 2018.


This is so easy that I can write this entire post from memory.



The Nigerian Air Force had a problem while trying to battle the Boko Haram insurgents in the North-East. They had no fixed wing COIN aircraft. They also needed more of the rotary wing aircraft that they had (HINDS).


Basically, the planes that we had at the time were the Chengdu F7 and the Dassault Alpha jets. The Chengdu F7 was way too fast for Counter-Insurgency Operations (COIN) and although the Alpha was better, it was also too fast. They needed something with more loiter time to be able to effectively attack targets on the ground.

Therefore, the Goodluck Jonathan administration decided to buy Embraer Super Tucano aircraft. These are propeller planes, so they can fly slowly and spend more time over the battlefield to enable them properly attack Boko Haram fighters. However, there was a problem.


Embraer is a Brazilian company, but there was also a lot of American interest in the deal. Some of the parts that were used in the aircraft were made in America and, even more importantly, Embraer was chasing a contract from the US Government. The US Government was also conducting tests to determine the most suitable COIN aircraft for its military and several aircraft from several manufacturers were competing for the contract (I wrote a list of all the aircraft on this thread in 2014 or 2015).

Now here's the problem. The US Congress had enacted a law that compelled the US Government to block the sale of any American military products or any military products that had American parts in them from being sold to military units around the world that it had designated as units that engage in torture or abuse of human rights. The law mandated the US State Department to compile a list of such units and the Joint Task Force (JTF) in the North-East of Nigeria was listed as a unit that engaged in torture and human rights abuses, therefore the US Government blocked the deal.

I remember that the senator that sponsored the legislation was very vocal in demanding that the Obama administration should block the deal (I think he was a Republican, but I can't remember for sure), while members of the Jonathan administration vociferously condemned the US Government for blocking the deal.



(Some supporters of President Goodluck Jonathan insulted and verbally attacked President Barrack Obama, because they believed that he personally blocked the deal because he did not like Goodluck Jonathan).


Both Goodluck Jonathan and Barrack Obama left office and President Muhammadu Buhari and Donald Trump came to power.


The Nigerian Government made another bid to buy Super Tucano aircraft and this time President Donald Trump facilitated the deal. President Trump came to power with the promise that he would reduce US dependence on imported products and increase demand for US products and this was a good opportunity to demonstrate what he meant. He brokered a deal that meant that the Super Tucanos would be manufactured in the US, rather than Brazil. He was able to convince members of Congress that this would mean more jobs for the American people (including their constituents) and so they accepted the deal.

The Nigerian Government on its part ensured that there were clauses in the contract that would require Embraer to train Nigerian Air Force pilots to fly the plane and provide spare parts for the planes.

The deal was approved in 2017 and signed when President Buhari visited the White House in 2018. Therefore, these planes that are being delivered were not bought by the Goodluck Jonathan Administration.



(Some supporters of the Jonathan Administration condemned the aircraft when the deal was signed in 2018. They claimed that President Buhari bought "World War 2 era planes". This prompted me to ask if that meant that Jonathan was trying to buy World War 2 era planes in 2014.

An opponent of the Goodluck Jonathan Administration had previously called the planes "World War 2 era planes", which prompted me to lecture him about COIN planes, including the Beechcraft Texan [Hey! I'm remembering the names of the planes!], the Super Tucano and even the AC-130).

The 2009 Light Attack/Armed Reconnaissance program was born out of the need for a new close air support aircraft that was suited to the type of combat the United States was facing in post 2003-invasion Iraq and Afghanistan. The close air support role was carried out by several different aircraft, including the A-10 Thunderbolt II, the B-1B Lancer, the F-16 Fighting Falcon, and the F-15E Strike Eagle. While all of these aircraft are capable of close air support, only the A-10 was purpose built for the type of support needed by ground troops in a "low intensity conflict," or COIN (COunterINsurgency), operation.[5]

For example, these aircraft often do not have the loiter time needed for these missions and require aerial refueling support, making their missions more expensive. Additionally, long loiter missions use up an airframe's service life faster than expected, requiring replacement. This may cause issues in the future as some aircraft, such as the A-10, are out of production and cannot be replaced.[5]

To solve this problem, the United States Air Force released a Request for Information (RFI) on July 27, 2009 requesting details of a possible Light Attack/Armed Reconnaissance aircraft that could be outfitted to specific requirements (see Requirements below) and enter into service in 2013.[2]

The Air Force planned to acquire approximately 100 aircraft in the RFI, but has since reduced the initial requirement to 15 aircraft. A more detailed Request for Proposals (RFP) has not been released as of September 2010.[2][3]

In 2011 the House Armed Services Committee moved to block funding for the program until the requirements and acquisition were validated.[12]

In November 2011 it was revealed that the Beechcraft AT-6B had been excluded from the competition by the USAF, leaving the Embraer A-29 the probable winner, with a contract expected to be awarded in December 2011.[13] According to GAO: “the Air Force concluded that HBDC [Hawker Beechcraft Defense Company] had not adequately corrected deficiencies in its proposal. In this regard, the agency concluded that multiple deficiencies and significant weaknesses found in HBDC’s proposal make it technically unacceptable and results in unacceptable mission capability risk”. Hawker Beechcraft's protest against its exclusion was dismissed.[14]

On December 30, 2011, the USAF announced that the A-29 had been awarded the contract.[15] But the contract award was disputed and a stop-work was issued the following January.[16] All motions will be due to U.S. Court of Federal Claim by March 6, 2012.[17]

A reawarding of the contract was expected in January 2013,[18] but was delayed a few months.[19] The A-29 was reawarded the contract on February 27, 2013.[20][21] And Beechcraft again challenged the contract.[22] But the USAF ordered that the construction start anyway.[23] Beechcraft's allies in the Kansas Republican congressional delegation then called for the work to be stopped,[24] while Embraer's Floridan congressional allies praised the USAF's move.[25] The USAF has instructed for work to continue unless a federal court orders otherwise.[26] The United States Court of Federal Claims upheld the USAF's decision to proceed with the contract work.[27]

Farki:
America will never sell such to Nigeria, just forget it.

We won't even use it for one, and we won't be able to maintain such aircraft.

naptu2:
I usually begin by telling the story, but I'm going to do it differently this time because I've seen some very funny posts.

Let's deal with some of the ignorance here. Some people are saying that the A29 Super Tucano is not used for warfare or that it's just a reconnaissance plane, while some very funny people are saying that we should buy F14, F15 or F16 planes (to fight against Boko Haram? ), So let's answer the question, what is the Super Tucano used for.


The Super Tucano has the prefix A. What are A planes used for? Some people want us to buy F planes. What are F planes used for?


These are the meanings of the prefixes on US military planes.

A: Attack
C: Cargo (i.e., transport)
D: Drone (i.e., drone control)
E: Electronic warfare
F: Fighter
H: Help aircraft (i.e., search and rescue)
K: Kerosene Carrier (i.e., tanker)
L: Equipped for cold weather operations
M: Multi-mission (i.e., Special Operations)
O: Observation
P: Maritime patrol
Q: Unmanned aerial vehicle
R: Reconnaissance
S: Surface warfare
T: Trainer
U: Utility
V: VIP transport
W: Weather reconnaissance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_United_States_Tri-Service_aircraft_designation_system


The A simply means (Ground) Attack aircraft. They are used to provide close air support to soldiers on the ground and to attack enemy soldiers on the ground. These planes are particularly useful in guerrilla warfare and counter-insurgency operations, like the kind of warfare that the Nigerian military is fighting in the North-East.


The F planes are fighters and interceptors. They are primarily used to fight against other military aircraft. Pray tell, what war planes do Boko Haram have that you want to buy F planes to fight against Boko Haram?


The Nigerian Army has often complained that they need close air support and that it often takes the Nigerian Air Force too long to respond with close air support when they require it. The A29 Super Tucano is meant to solve this problem.


Furthermore, the Nigerian Air Force has complained that the Chengdu F7 (an F plane) is too fast and that it's not good for counter-insurgency operations, yet you want to buy another F plane to fight Boko Haram?

naptu2:
Before you make a comment on this thread, first try and find out about these things:


1) The difference between a turboprop and a jet.


2) Counter-Insurgency Operations (COIN).

3) Ground attack aircraft

4) Loiter time


5) The difference between a Tucano and a Super Tucano (so that you'll know why it was bought from the US and not Brazil).

6) The history of the Super Tucano (so that you won't say that it's a World War 2 plane).

Fmghewzy:
Guy you are good ooo,smart people too dey this forum.
The planes are pretty good,but it shouldn't be something Nigeria should be proud of buying men ,Nigeria ought to have pass this stage .

We suppose Don have plenty of this babies ,built by us as they are not that fuvking complex.

When all the hype that Nigeria was getting some new planes, I even thought they were gonna be badass jets.
Instead we got propellers.

naptu2:
Continue reading the posts and you'll find out why they are propeller planes, not jets.

We are getting fighter jets later this year or early next year, but these propeller planes are more important than those jets.

Fmghewzy:
Kk bro.
I understand why they bought propeller planes,it has to do with the mission right.
Probably for Boko Haram,and the region is this desert side with little buildings and stuff.
They don't need heavy fire power.

But my Koko be say , Nigeria suppose they build this kind thing ourselves.

Farki:
Ethiopia

Xisnin:
There is something called connotation. I believe it was part of the Junior High school curriculum.

Dalil8:
When are we getting F-16s and F-35s ffs

The money spent on these could get the latest fighter jets

naptu2:
The level of ignorance on this thread is astounding. It seems people don't know what COIN operations are and they don't know the importance of loiter time during COIN operations.


What's more shocking is that someone actually described the Super Tucano as a World War 2 plane! Can you imagine that??

Freshfish4:
Other African countries are seriously upgrading military arsenal, na this world war 1 stupid ancient refurbished jet we dey buy. How the might has fallen

NdigboWorldwide:
This is not jet but turboprop Aircraft. It can't stand a chance with any jet fighter aircraft be it Russian Mig of 60s era, � which even Nigeria Airforce uses, because they will actually outrun and out manoeuvre this. I'm still wondering how they bought this at such a high price.

We need something like f-16 if only U.S. will see it to us or we go for Russian Mig of the 80s which Ethiopian Airforce currently uses, Nigeria Airforce don't stand a chance with Ethiopia Airforce in Air to Air combat, just a pity.

naptu2:
More pictures.

frowland:
We buy weapons to fight ourselves. The manufacturers of these weapons never develop it to fight themselves. Only in Africa and Arab nations will you see Nations buying arms to kill their fellow citizens in d name of peace - ...and do you know what we have in common with the Arabs? Extremely Religious people.

Quote me anywhere, If you want to know who funds and sponsors terrorism in your country, then look no further than the group of interests who come to pressurise you to buy their arms. If you refuse to buy their arms? Then watch Lord of War to know the consequences of refusal.


If you have watched Nicolas Cage as the arms dealer in Lord of War, you will realise why gorilla warfare will never end in 3rd world and Arab nations and thereafter you will have a rethink.
Sell legally to the government and collect cash, sell illegaly (By private plane drop offs etc) to the terrorists and collect raw materials. When both sides end up destroying themselves, do you know who Inherits the earth?



Arms dealers shall Inherit the earth was the last sentence in that movie.

PhiliptheArab:
For the record the Tucano turboprop is effective for the job we want it to do. That's why we are buying it.

Jets might be handy if boko haram too had jets. They don't.

Read the posts on this thread by naptu2. You will understand why Nigeria is buying these planes.

NdigboWorldwide:
If it's for tackling insurgents, that is no problem, but for conventional war, with well equipped country, then it's just another toy and the price what do you have to say about it?