1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that [b]to the east of Beny at twenty moons' journey which according to their account, and the short journeys they make, would be about two hundred and fifty of our leauges there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. Among the pagan chiefs of the territories of Beny he was held in as great veneration as is the Supreme Pontif with us. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation. To signify his assent, the prince Ogané sends the king a staff and a headpiece of shining brass, fashioned like a Spanish helmet, in place of a crown and sceptre. He also sends a cross, likewise of brass, to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the Knights of the Order of Saint John. Without these emblems the people do not recognize him as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king. All the time this ambassador is at the court of Ogané, he never sees the prince, but only the curtains of silk behind which he sits, for he is regarded as sacred. When the ambassador is leaving, he is shown a foot below the curtains as a sign that the prince is within and agrees to the matters that he has raised; this foot they reverence as though it were a sacred relic.[/b] As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey the ambassador receives a small cross, similar to that sent to the king, which is thrown round his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes, and privileged in his native country, as the Knights are with us.


cc
TAO11

Ogiame

MetaPhysical:
1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that [b]to the east of Beny at twenty moons' journey which according to their account, and the short journeys they make, would be about two hundred and fifty of our leauges there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. Among the pagan chiefs of the territories of Beny he was held in as great veneration as is the Supreme Pontif with us. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation. To signify his assent, the prince Ogané sends the king a staff and a headpiece of shining brass, fashioned like a Spanish helmet, in place of a crown and sceptre. He also sends a cross, likewise of brass, to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the Knights of the Order of Saint John. Without these emblems the people do not recognize him as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king. All the time this ambassador is at the court of Ogané, he never sees the prince, but only the curtains of silk behind which he sits, for he is regarded as sacred. When the ambassador is leaving, he is shown a foot below the curtains as a sign that the prince is within and agrees to the matters that he has raised; this foot they reverence as though it were a sacred relic.[/b] As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey the ambassador receives a small cross, similar to that sent to the king, which is thrown round his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes, and privileged in his native country, as the Knights are with us.


cc
TAO11

Are you aware that your TAO11 you are copying and calling has already argued in the opposite direction of your copy and paste source in another thread.

TAO11 account of what you just posted is in the opposite, he argued and provided evidence that it was the Oba of Benin that gave out the cross necklace to the messagers and not your Ogane prince.

Have you not done enough damage to TAO11 arguments already in the other thread you bulldozed yourself into.

Do you want to give the guy more headache.

The benins didnt have any relationship with ife it was all made up to adjourned edo people to the yorubas in the early creation of nigeria

Oduduwa account is fake it is a political myth

I have been reading all the threads from behind and privately did my research and it add up

Am igbo who have stayed in edo for years i can boldly say i know benin history well because tjey are fascinating

The portuguese partner of Benin de Barros said THERE IS A KING, CALLED OGENE WHO IS GREATER THAN THE OBA AND HIS PALACE IS EASTWARD OF BENIN.

This establishes that Oba is a lesser king to someone else who dictates power in Benin. This is clear.

This means Oba is not the greatest king in that region....there was another king greater than him.

Who was this Greater King?

MetaPhysical:
The portuguese partner of Benin de Barros said THERE IS A KING, CALLED OGENE WHO IS GREATER THAN THE OBA AND HIS PALACE IS EASTWARD OF BENIN.

This establishes that Oba is a lesser king to someone else who dictates power in Benin. This is clear.

This means Oba is not the greatest king in that region....there was another king greater than him.

Who was this Greater King?

This will not save you from the damaged you have already caused to the Yorubas debates and arguments.

They have all run away from all threads and into hiding because of you.

samuk:


This will not save you from the damaged you have already caused to the Yorubas debates and arguments.

They have all run away from all threads and into hiding because of you.

Stop your uncivility on this thread.

The thread is self explanatory.

One of your partners that you have tabled as the early writers of your history and whose accounts is held in high regard said your Oba is a subject of a foreign and greater King to the East.

My quest here is not about Yoruba/Benin....but following logically to what your partner said, who is this Greater King that Oba of Benin gets his authority from in the East?

This is the goal of the thread. If you want to discuss Yoruba/Benin, there are threads for that.

Cc
TAO11

MetaPhysical:


Stop your uncivility on this thread.

The thread is self explanatory.

One of your partners that you have tabled as the early writers of your history and whose accounts is held in high regard said your Oba is a subject of a foreign and greater King to the East.

My quest here is not about Yoruba/Benin....but following logically to what your partner said, who is this Greater King that Oba of Benin gets his authority from in the East?

This is the goal of the thread. If you want to discuss Yoruba/Benin, there are threads for that.

Cc
TAO11

First let us ascertain if the statement itself was true and if so, let search who this king was.

We have already cast doubt and disproved that the king was the Ooni because the evidence so far are too weak to support it.

You have also speculated in the other thread that it could be the Igala king but the Igalas themselves through their historical accounts said it's not their king.

History is not about tribal supremacy but about finding the truth wherever it leads.

The rest of Europe are not ashamed that they were one time colonised and ruled by little Rome.


More on Benin/Igala relationship told by the Igalas themselves. There is also a nollywood movie by Mercy Johnson.

You can find the history and her statue on the internet.

The Legend of Igala Kingdom- Princess In
Princess Inikpi of Kogi

According to historical records, It all started with a war between Benin & the Igala people which caused the land to be unsafe, farmlands were taken over by the enemies and stream been poisoned so that anyone that drank from them would die. Nowhere was safe at all.

The Igalas feared imminent death from starvation and lack of water. When the Atta (King) consulted the oracle, it proclaimed that a reversal of their misfortune and victory in the war could only come when the princess, the only daughter of the king is buried alive. — Princess Inikpi.

Surely, the king was distraught heartbroken and shaded tears. For days, he didn’t eat or drink and he wished for an alternative solution. Of cos, no father would just agree for any of his children to be buried alive not to talk about the only child of the Atta (King).

The princess noticed the worries of her father and asked to know the reason for his sadness. Instead of opening up, he held off telling her the reason for seven days, but on the eighth, he relented and told her the words of the Oracle.

The Princess loved his father and her people as much as they loved her, could not bear the thought of holding off on the solution that would save Igala land. Princess Inikpi did not object, she did not fight. Therefore, she agreed to be sacrificed and set off voluntarily to the bank of River Niger at Idah (some say market square), where she was buried along with 9 slaves who would help her in the journey to the afterlife.



It was a sad resolution but the Igala people hailed her for her heroism. after the sacrifice, the story went on that as the Bini armies advanced to swoop, they saw the whole town in FLAMES and retreated feeling that there was no need taking the war to a place already on fire; but it was the blood of Inikpi that deceived them. However, it was the influence of the sacrifice.

Observance of the role the Princess played in averting disaster in Igala land still represents an important historical event in the life of the igala people. Today, so many people in Idah bear the name Inikpi in honour of the princess.

The sacrifice was a costly one, very expensive indeed, it, however, made peace reign again in Igala land.

Till today, the late Princess Inikpi who was sacrificed so that the Igalas might live remains the unifying factor in Igala land.

For this, the Igala people are forever deeply grateful to Princess Inikpi for her sacrifice and act of heroism. A statue of the princess stands at “Ega” in Idah, which is considered the Igala traditional headquarters. Several plays have also been produced to celebrate her story

Samuk,

Keep your thoughts simple and organized. It looks like you are heated and emotional. Calm down.

You determined that deBarros was not talking about Ooni of Ife in his account, but about a King East of Benin.

How did you determine this? Please share....


Cc
TAO11

MetaPhysical:
Samuk,

Keep your thoughts simple and organized. It looks like you are heated and emotional. Calm down.

You determined that deBarros was not talking about Ooni of Ife in his account, but about a King East of Benin.

How did you determine this? Please share....


Cc
TAO11

Go back and read the source you quoted carefully, it says prince Ogane more than once. Did he mean to say priest of Ogane?

He referred to Ogane as prince more than once and he went on to say, he stays behind a veil and only shows his feet. Prince and king is not the same thing.

The court he referred to could be a shrine or an Oracle.

Yes, I do know a place east of Benin that possibly fits this description and it's not Ife. It's an Edo speaking town.

One of the symbols of this shrine is the cross.

samuk:


Go back and read the source you quoted carefully, it says prince Ogane more than once. Did he mean to say priest of Ogane?

He referred to Ogane as prince more than once and he went on to say, he stays behind a veil and only shows his feet. Prince and king is not the same thing.

The court he referred to could be a shrine or an Oracle.

Yes, I do know a place east of Benin that possibly fits this description and it's not Ife. It's an Edo speaking town.

One of the symbols of this shrine is the cross.

Thats what this thread is about to find the foreign King greater than Oba of Benin.

So you agree there was indeed a Priest to the East greater than your Oba.

You said he is in Edo town. Name the town.


For reference.....

the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. Among the pagan chiefs of the territories of Beny he was held in as great veneration as is the Supreme Pontif with us. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation.

MetaPhysical:


Thats what this thread is about to find the foreign King greater than Oba of Benin.

So you agree there was indeed a Priest to the East greater than your Oba.

You said he is in Edo town. Name the town.


For reference.....

Now, the statement that every new Oba of Benin sort validation from this Ogane, have to be verified to be true, after that we have to sort out the inconsistency in the titles used, monarch and prince which was likened to their supreme pontiff.

Was this a shrine or some sort of Oracle that has to be notified of a new Oba like we still do in Benin.

Even your submission have rubbished the fabrication that dead oba of Benin were exhumed and taken to Ife to be reburied.

This is one of the primary evidence people like TAO11 and other Yorubas based their arguments of Benin/Ife connections.

We are now fairly sure that this Ogane if any was not the Ooni of Ife and not the Atta of Igala as you suggested.

In the absence of any strong evidence to back up another powerful king and kingdom in 15c and 16 centuries, my hunch is that your source was probably referring to an Oracle or a shrine somewhere in the old Benin kingdom which I already alluded to in another thread but until further research is done, I will not give you guys the opportunity to distract from the search of true history of old Benin.

Most of you guys are not here for true history but tribal supremacy, that's not history, history should be a search of the truth and shared heritage that should be celebrated.

Are you not curious that in the 400 years of European contact with Benin, they didn't find it curious or necessary to visit this almighty Ogane.

Samuk,
You cant keep mixing apples and oranges bunching unrelevant issues with ongoing discussion here.

This is about Benin and a Greater King to the East, called Ogane, to whom Oba of Benin is inferior.

Focus on that.

Here is where we are...

You have admitted that deBarros is correct in his account.

You have also preferred that this greater monarch be called PRIEST.

You agreed there is a town to EAST of Benin and is an EDO town.

We need to move forward from here and focused.


Now, you do know in those past centuries monarchs were called Priest-Kings. Correct?

DeBarros used Monarch, Prince (which you called Priest) and King...to ascribe authority to this Supreme leader.

So a Priest-King to the East of Bini had superiority over Oba of Benin. Oba must get permission from him for coronation.

You said this place was an Edo town. Name the town please.

Cc
TAO11

MetaPhysical:
Samuk,
You cant keep mixing apples and oranges bunching unrelevant issues with ongoing discussion here.

This is about Benin and a Greater King to the East, called Ogane, to whom Oba of Benin is inferior.

Focus on that.

Here is where we are...

You have admitted that deBarros is correct in his account.

You have also preferred that this greater monarch be called PRIEST.

You agreed there is a town to EAST of Benin and is an EDO town.

We need to move forward from here and focused.


Now, you do know in those past centuries monarchs were called Priest-Kings. Correct?

DeBarros used Monarch, Prince (which you called Priest) and King...to ascribe authority to this Supreme leader.

So a Priest-King to the East of Bini had superiority over Oba of Benin. Oba must get permission from him for coronation.

You said this place was an Edo town. Name the town please.

Cc
TAO11

Do you have problems with the English language or English language comprehension?

Where did I admit to anything you presented in my submission?

I actually cast doubt in your source of evidence by saying, we have to verify if that statement was ever made by any Benin king, then we have to sort out the contradiction on the title of the supposed powerful monarch/prince, then will move to the location.

I pointed out to you that King and Prince met different things and your source used the title prince more than once.

I even asked and suggested that your source may have been referring to a shrine or an Oracle and not a king at all.

I suggested the location to be a town in old Benin kingdom.

Your fixation with a powerful king is not making you read properly.

I repeat, I didn't agree to any of your submission, hope others will read and translate my English to you in Yoruba.

MetaPhysical:
Samuk,
You cant keep mixing apples and oranges bunching unrelevant issues with ongoing discussion here.

This is about Benin and a Greater King to the East, called Ogane, to whom Oba of Benin is inferior.

Focus on that.

Here is where we are...

You have admitted that deBarros is correct in his account.

You have also preferred that this greater monarch be called PRIEST.

You agreed there is a town to EAST of Benin and is an EDO town.

We need to move forward from here and focused.


Now, you do know in those past centuries monarchs were called Priest-Kings. Correct?

DeBarros used Monarch, Prince (which you called Priest) and King...to ascribe authority to this Supreme leader.

So a Priest-King to the East of Bini had superiority over Oba of Benin. Oba must get permission from him for coronation.

You said this place was an Edo town. Name the town please.

Cc
TAO11

Note that Eze Nri is referred as priest king
......

MetaPhysical:


Stop your uncivility on this thread.

The thread is self explanatory.

One of your partners that you have tabled as the early writers of your history and whose accounts is held in high regard said your Oba is a subject of a foreign and greater King to the East.

My quest here is not about Yoruba/Benin....but following logically to what your partner said, who is this Greater King that Oba of Benin gets his authority from in the East?

This is the goal of the thread. If you want to discuss Yoruba/Benin, there are threads for that.

Cc
TAO11

please were is the ogene and his kingdom located in the east?

Even the Esama of Benin once claimed to be the oba of Benin in London

Hi MetaPhysical:

I am very pleased to be back on here since about this time yesterday.

The reason I've been away is as seen in the attachment below.

The Benin liars must be shiting their pants now that I am back.

They understand that the sl@yer of the lies is back.

For I am not sent to Nairaland except to deal with lying Bini Nairalanders.

Before I proceed to submit the unanimous comtemporary conclusion of historians on the identity of the Ogané; please always send me an email on TAO.11@yahoo.com in case I get banned, and I'm not responding to mentions.

Please also drop me your email here.

Thanks!

samuk:


Do you have problems with the English language or English language comprehension?

Where did I admit to anything you presented in my submission?

I actually cast doubt in your source of evidence by saying, we have to verify if that statement was ever made by any Benin king, then we have to sort out the contradiction on the title of the supposed powerful monarch/prince, then will move to the location.

I pointed out to you that King and Prince met different things and your source used the title prince more than once.

I even asked and suggested that your source may have been referring to a shrine or an Oracle and not a king at all.

I suggested the location to be a town in old Benin kingdom.

Your fixation with a powerful king is not making you read properly.

I repeat, I didn't agree to any of your submission, hope others will read and translate my English to you in Yoruba.

You have to wait for what

Your portuguese hero made the revelation.

Are you now saying Poruguese was lying?

Xavfra:





Note that Eze Nri is referred as priest king
......

Have you ever seen this document?

Here it is in a clearer text -

Linguists and historians agree that the Niger-Benue river valley was the origin of the dispersal of the Kwa language group of the original Niger-Congo linguistic group of West Africa. Since the Bantu group of languages are dispersed from South-Eastern Nigeria, it stands to reason that Bantu was a child of the Kwa language; and that the Niger-Benue was the center of dispersal of the Niger-Congo languages. Ifi Amadiume argues in African Matriarchal Foundations that the Egyptian civilization was an offshoot of this indigeneous West African civilization, and that numerous examples of Igbo cognates in a wide range of Bantu languages support the thesis of an Igbo/South-Eastern Nigerian origin of the Bantu languages. Eri/Idu was the representative of God on Earth.

The fact that Eri/Idu was the great potentate of the Niger Congo/Niger-Benue civilization that grew out of post-deluge Nigeria, is confirmed by the Benin/Edo records of the deluge as narrated in Osaren Omoregie's Great Benin classics. In Great Benin, the oral traditions of the Edo people of Nigeria claims that a post-deluge civilization established , nurtured and upheld by Idu, the survivor of the deluge was located near the waters of the River Niger, then known as Ohinmwi, or Great River. In this Edo/Benin story, the flood which submerged all habitable lands was called Iso Norho. God (Oghene) after saving Iduu/Idu from the floods piled up sand and ceated a plateau on which he ordered Idu to build a temple with a high tower. Idu did as he was told and subsequently became the great representative of God on earth. Idu was the first high priest of God, king and way-shower all combined. He established the first shrine/temple for the worship of the Supreme Being, and it became the first city - a divine palace of God, the first human habitation. "He chose a place at the crest of the territory and mustered the efforts of the people to build a palace for Oghene there. He himself lived there, and he became known as the people's earthly Oghene. Where the palace was built was called Uduwa and he himself was called Oduduwa. ...Oduduwa, Idu, Oghene of Uhe".

Idu/Eri as the representative of God on earth is in consonance with Thoth being the representative of the Dweller on earth: "Emissary on earth am I of the Dweller". The fact that the Yoruba tribe of the Kwa linguistic group claims that the ancestral founder of their tribe was a person called Oduduwa implies that they too were among the descendants of Iduu/Eri. Not only was Iduu the representative of God on earth, he was also revered as the one who received from God/Oghene the power to rule the world and stabilize it. In the Great Benin myth Idu is also called by the divine title Erinmwidu (equivalent Igbo expression: Eri wu Idu) - "Eri is Idu". This title indicates that Eri is the very person whom the Edo tribe calls Idu.

MetaPhysical:


Have you ever seen this document?

I haven't....lemme go through it.....
Later I'll get back to you

MetaPhysical:


Have you ever seen this document?

Do you mind reposting it....
It isn't clear....
Thanks

I reproduced it in clearer texts.

That document supports what you said in Eri being a Priest-King.

I had thought it was Arochuckwu that had Priest-Kings.

The point is a King in the East was above Oba of Benin in supremacy.

We said it couldn't be East....that the King was actually West, not East. But Edos themselves said no that we are wrong. They pointed us to what a Portuguese man said in mid-1500s and said the man was accurate.

That accuracy is what Im exploring. It seems to be yielding fruits based on that document. That was produced by Catherine Acholonu.

I know the Easterners have always said Edos migrated out of Onitsha going by narratives of Olaudah Equaino. What pushed Benin to prominence was contact with Portuguese and Dutch.....and if that contact had not been there Edo would be nobody.

It is beginning to make sense now. However, there is a missing link.

The missing link is the seat of power of that Superior King in East with brass cross. I opened this thread for that discovery.

Thanks for highlighting Eri. From that hint I found Acholonu's document. Read it yourself, it says a lot.

It did not once attribute any divine or kingship power to Bini as a founding member or even a principal source of divine authority from the source in Niger-Benue. It said Oduduwa and Eri held supremacy.

The document even took information from a son of Edo who wrote a book called Great Benin Classics and the book pointed to Supremacy elsewhere, not Benin.

So it agrees again with the claim that what made Benin great was contact with Europeans....among its peers in the native region Benin was inferior, and this agrees with the account of numerous writers, of European origin themselves.

MetaPhysical:
I reproduced it in clearer texts.

That document supports what you said in Eri being a Priest-King.

I had thought it was Arochuckwu that had Priest-Kings.

The point is a King in the East was above Oba of Benin in supremacy.

We said it couldn't be East....that the King was actually West, not East. But Edos themselves said no that we are wrong. They pointed us to what a Portuguese man said in mid-1500s and said the man was accurate.

That accuracy is what Im exploring. It seems to be yielding fruits based on that document. That was produced by Catherine Acholonu.

I know the Easterners have always said Edos migrated out of Onitsha going by narratives of Olaudah Equaino. What pushed Benin to prominence was contact with Portuguese and Dutch.....and if that contact had not been there Edo would be nobody.

It is beginning to make sense now. However, there is a missing link.

The missing link is the seat of power of that Superior King in East with brass cross. I opened this thread for that discovery.

Thanks for highlighting Eri. From that hint I found Acholonu's document. Read it yourself, it says a lot.

It did not once attribute any divine or kingship power to Bini as a founding member or even a principal source of divine authority from the source in Niger-Benue. It said Oduduwa and Eri held supremacy.

The document even took information from a son of Edo who wrote a book called Great Benin Classics and the book pointed to Supremacy elsewhere, not Benin.

So it agrees again with the claim that what made Benin great was contact with Europeans....among its peers in the native region Benin was inferior, and this agrees with the account of numerous writers, of European origin themselves.

Metaphysical,

You seems to be pursuing your history of Benin as if you have problems and issues with the Benin people, what did they do to you that makes you so angry to be reading your history upside down.

Which Edo told you they migrated out of Onitsha.

It's Onitsha and other western Igbos that claimed to have migrated out of Benin.

Olaudah Equiano actually said his Ibo town was under the rule of Oba of Benin.

Below is what Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe said in his autobiography about how his Onitsha people left Benin.

Find yourself a copy of Nnamdi Azikiwe autobiography and history of Onitsha people to read.
Below is an extract.

Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha." SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4 "I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD." SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5 "One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins....." "I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu....... ..." "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc..." SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity"

See lamentation caused by pain!

Samuk, you are inferior to Ife.
Accept!

According to Acholonu -

Two divine Kings existed in South.

Oduduwa
Eri.

Any other one is inferior to these.

Samuk, show up and argue your Benin inferiority here.

MetaPhysical:
Samuk, show up and argue your Benin inferiority here.

I chased you away from this thread, you run to the other thread

I chased you away from that thread, you run back to this thread because you couldn't defend the claim you made on that thread and your Yoruba brothers and sister chased you away because you were messing up their arguments with your low intelligence.

Argue with yourself.

MetaPhysical:
According to Acholonu -

Two divine Kings existed in South.

Oduduwa
Eri.

Any other one is inferior to these.

I can't believe that the Yorubas are so dull not to know the implication of what we are trying to save them from.

By forcefully writing themselves into Benin history, it gives seniority to the Oba of Benin over all Yoruba Obas. So much for their sophistication and cleverness.

This implication was not lost on the source you quoted because he even alluded to it.

Most scholars and historians of Yoruba history agree that Oranmiyan came to Benin and had his first child became the Oba of Benin, he then went to Oyo to have his second child, the Alafin of Oyo and returned to rule Ife where he possibly had other children who carried on as Ooni.

The reason for the seniority tussle between the old Ooni and Alaafin.

Alaafin being the second son to Oranmiyan cant be junior to Oranmiyan later children who took over in Ife.

Some even argued that the present Oonis are from the line of the chief priest that Oduduwa left to be taking care of the shrines after all his children left Ife to found other kingdoms.

Even if we agree that Oranmiyan was Yoruba, that still put Oba of Benin, his most senior son as the most senior Yoruba Obas.

So you have in terms of seniority, from Oranmiyan children. Let me see how they argue this.

1. Oba of Benin
2. Alaafin of Oyo
3. Ooni of Ife.

No matter how they spin it, the Alaafin will always be below the Oba of Benin in heirarchy.

Like to see what the Oyo guys around here think about this. The Oyo guys seats back and allow other Yorubas tribes without history to be arguing their history.

Oranmiyan is father of Oba Benin and Alaafin.

Oba Benin is senior to Alaafin in birth. Alaafin is senior to Oba Benin in political strength.

We respect Oba Benin and accept him as our son and are proud of him.

It is you Edos that do disservice to his throne by trying relentlessly to humiliate him with false information about his lineage and root.

You are his liability. We are an asset to him.

MetaPhysical:
Oranmiyan is father of Oba Benin and Alaafin.

Oba Benin is senior to Alaafin in birth. Alaafin is senior to Oba Benin in political strength.

We respect Oba Benin and accept him as our son and are proud of him.

It is you Edos that do disservice to his throne by trying relentlessly to humiliate him with false information about his lineage and root.

You are his liability. We are an asset to him.

If that is what you believe, then go and tell TAO11 on the other thread instead of running away like a coward.

Besides I don't know what political strength you are referring to.

Did you see any of the Benin being ask to shut up and leave the thread by their fellow Benin people.

The problem with you guys is you lack the confidence to stand on your own argument without calling for help from your tribes people.

It's not a competition for you to win a medal or price.

Immediately TAO11 disagrees with what you have written here, you will quickly change and say you were only joking like before.