Abu vs Christian

Christian- Why is abrogation common in the Qur'an? Is it that Allah is not sure of what to reveal or your Prophet is just releasing what he feels?

Abu - Naskh (abrogation) in Arabic means lifting and removing. In Islamic terminology it means lifting a ruling indicated by a shar‘i text, on the basis of evidence from the Qur’an or Sunnah.

The concept of abrogation is based on the Qur’an and tradition of the Prophet, and on the consensus (ijmaa‘) of Ahl as-Sunnah, and there is great wisdom behind it. In most cases the abrogation was for the purpose of making things easier for the Muslims or increasing the rewards.

Allah, may He be exalted, said (interpretation of the meaning):
“Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?

Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Allah you have neither any Walee (protector or guardian) nor any helper.” [al-Baqarah 2:106-107].

Christian - But why should anything be abrogated?

Abu - Because Allah wished to ease the affairs of the Muslims and also that He is able to do all things. He is the law maker! And He is the Most Merciful who knows what's best for His slaves.

Christian - Unlike the Qur'an, there's no abrogation in the Bible! The Bible is....

Abu - Are you sure about that assertion?

Christian - Of course i am. Have you heard of anything like abrogation in the Bible?

Abu - Do you eat pork?

Christian - Of course i do. Pork is not forbidden anywhere in the Bible.

Abu - In the Old Testament, the consumption of pig meat (pork) is prohibited in Leviticus 11:7-8 which states:

"And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you."

So why do you eat pork now?

Christian - Actually that's the old testament. We are now in the dispensation of grace after Jesus's death....

Abu - Do you mean the old testament verses that prohibit eating pork has been Abrogated in the New Testament?

Christian - Ehn...(stammers and looks confused)..Something like that!

Abu - ABROGATION! ABROGATION ABROGATION! So If Pork was forbidden in the OT (Old testament) and you claim it is later permitted in the NT (New Testament) then how can you go against abrogation because it is in the Qur'an? Is that not hypocrisy?

Christian - To be candid, i didn't think along those lines.

Abu - So now you have no issue about abrogation now because you now see it in the Bible right?

Christian - Yes!

Abu - Assuming it's not there in your book you'll still continue your attack as usual. But let me ask you "of what use is the NT if the OT was perfect and all encompassing?

Christian: Ehm! I think.....the NT is the final plan of God for the salvation of mankind through the teachings, Prophecies and postulations of the OT...

Abu - Abeg, leave grammar! If the OT was perfect, there won't be a need for the NT. And that's the same claim you make as regards the Qur'an. Why should you believe a book that comes over six centuries after Jesus telling us about Jesus?

Christian - The whole OT and NT is all about Jesus saving mankind!

Abu - Is that what it is about all what you are made to see it as being about?

Christian - There are many foretelling and similitudes for example Isaac was the sacrifice that was to be killed by his father Abraham. In the same vein, God is to remit his son for the redemption of mankind!

Abu - Was Abraham's son killed in the end of that purported sacrifice?

Christian - No!

Abu - What happened? Did he die?

Christian - No, I think God saved him.

Abu - He was substituted with a Ram! And it was the Ram that was killed.

Christian - But the proverb of Isaac and Jesus still correlate!

Abu - It does correlate to the fact that God save Jesus too from death? Just as Isaac was saved Jesus too was saved!

Christian - Are you saying someone else was on the cross and not Jesus?

Abu - Not saying anything other than going with your Isaac sacrificial parable of Jesus! Isaac didn't die and was replaced with a Ram.
Maybe Jesus didn't die and was replaced with another entity! And people taught it was Jesus!

The actors of Jesus in films have changed for decades who recognizes those changes so far as it depicts one white man with small beard...

Christian - The Bible didn't say that. Jesus was surely crucified and died!

Abu - Allah says "And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ]: Qur'an 4:157.

In Mark 14:50, all the disciples fled! So how are you sure of anything? The substitution theory of Isaac is proven from this verse. Can we agree that Isaac didn't die just as Jesus didn't die too?

Christian - No! It is not the same!
Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death. Hebrew 11:19

Abu - Why did you use the word "death" in that verse above? Isaac didn't die!

Christian - That's what is written in the book of Hebrew as i quoted.

Abu - That verse is most likely misinterpreted! I doubt death was in the Greek manuscript.

Christian - We can check another translation. Which translation do you suggest?

Abu - Just search Bible hub with the verse and click...

Christian - Okay....Coming.....I think it is the same in many translations.

Abu - Let me see it. The English Standard Version says: "He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back." You see Isaac didn't die. That death was put again to make you see the similarities that is not there.

Bible translators have been doing this for decades if not centuries! And many will have died on errors!

Christian - Okay! I think i will be leaving now as i have to meet up with an appointment.

Abu - Alright! It was nice discussing with you!
Maybe next time we discuss why God need kill his son to save mankind!
Bye and take care!