ivandragon:


Why do you always support explotative policies that impoverish the masses when the government has not done what needs to be done to sanitise the system?

A government that has been so secretive about crude utilisation, revenue and other associated dealings chooses to just shift the burden of its ineptitude to the masses and you support so blindly (sorry to 'say').

There are serious questions to be answered and things to do before government can say it wants to fully remove subsidy on such a crucial product. If those issues are not tackled, no amount of 'subsidy removal' would alleviate the hardship.

That you might be earning enough to buy fuel at even N2k per litre and not be bothered by the associated increases in cost of living does not mean every one is on your level.

Let the government be open and tidy up the system before determining if subsidy on pms is sustainable or not in the short to medium term viz-a-viz the purchasing power of the common man.

Remove subsidy on pms, you support.

Remove subsidy on electricity, you support.

Remove subsidy on fertiliser, you support.

Remove subsidy on education, you support.

Remove subsidy on health care, you support.

What kind on one direction human are you? I pity anyone who would be unfortunate to work under you.

Because at the end, people want to be paid. And because profits make things move faster because...people want to be paid.

Unless you want us to go into more and more debt to get the subsidy you want. Keeping fuel at N40 per liter would cost us billions of dollars more than our current budget and reserves.

My eyes were opened in 2012. I ain't going back.

You won't like it if government set your prices to help the poor. Business people should have a right to set prices in a way that they see fit. And the oil sector needs to build more refineries, upgrade exisiting ones, help us build an efficent gas processing and supply system, to reduce flaring. All this costs money.

Has nothing to do with whoever is in power. Tinubu would agree with you...as he is keeping on subsides. I don't

We have lost 4 refineries and billions in potential revenue to 50 years of subsides. iT IS not working here. Time we ended the charade.

nairalanda1:


Because at the end, people want to be paid. And because profits make things move faster because...people want to be paid.

Unless you want us to go into more and more debt to get the subsidy you want. Keeping fuel at N40 per liter would cost us billions of dollars more than our current budget and reserves.

My eyes were opened in 2012. I ain't going back.

You won't like it if government set your prices to help the poor. Business people should have a right to set prices in a way that they see fit. And the oil sector needs to build more refineries, upgrade exisiting ones, help us build an efficent gas processing and supply system, to reduce flaring. All this costs money.

Has nothing to do with whoever is in power. Tinubu would agree with you...as he is keeping on subsides. I don't

You keep skipping around issues without addressing substances.

Can the Nigerian economy survive subsidy removals that help the poor?

It is not as if I am against subsidy removals, but there are things to be done, issues to be addressed before such drastic decisions can be taken. Sanitise the system first.

Anyway, I guess some persons love seeing others suffer so they can feel psychologically and financially superior.

Reno omokiri and his supporters will now blame Peter obi for this

Reno omokiri and his supporters will not see this one and criticize Tinubu for this .. hyprocite

ivandragon:



You keep skipping around issues without addressing substances.

Can the Nigerian economy survive subsidy removals the help the poor?

It is not as if I am against subsidy removals, but there are things to be done, issues to be addressed be such drastic decision can be taken.

Anyway, I guess some persons love seeing others suffer so they can feel psychologically and financially superior.

Have we survived well with subsidy?

Because of the rising cost of production, we have had maintenance of subsidy contributing to our massive debt, massive smuggling, corruption in the system, and routine scarcity of fuel for decades.

The economy is already in a bad place, with subsidy maintenance cost being part of the problem

You may not like the free market, but things work better when the market is freed.

Unless you are telling me tinubu and buhari were right to keep subsidy payments, as well as your beloved GEJ...and most past leaders. I myself think they were all wrong.

And anyway, we cant' afford subsidy. Debt service was eating 90% of our earnings by August 2022. Partial removal of subsidy under tinubu knocked it down to 65%, but it is growing again.

Either way, things cost money. We choose your way, we pay via high debts. We choose my way, we pay high, but we attract more investment, jobs and wealth creation.

Tinubu and APC just to add more hardship and suffering to nigerians... nothing they can offer

What did you expect from a president that the only thing he can only tell Nigerians during his presidential campaign that...it's his turn

Bwilliam:


Nobody had ever expected anything good to come out of the North, not even a revolution. After all, you are your father's sons, the children of the bond woman.

From the moment Arewa people's congress grabbed power from Jonathan, we already knew that the country had gone to the dogs.

Our expectations for this country was very low, but you people somehow descended even lower than we thought possible.

Wailing wailer wailest

MetalJigsaw:
And you think you have sense. How does this post even concern Obi?

All this because you are Yoruba

reduce too much garri intake so you can decode sarcasm when u see one

lastmessenger:
shut the Bleep up. No one is rejoicing on bad news. You guys are clueless.l,heartless,monstrous,full of evil.
Ordinary Nigeria are complaining of bad governance and you call them names.
APC and tinubu supporters are nothing but evil

Christians terrorists spotted that don't like good news in Nigeria

Yankee101:
Diesel can be broken down into petrol
Dangote seems more interested in profit than helping Nigerians
He’s concentrating on dispel which is more expensive

... Dangote said his refinery will start producing fuel by May 2024 and sell to nigerians

Usmanovic95:


Instead of you to call out bad leaders to get the country fixed and make live worth living for the living but you are calling out christians,are they the cause of the fuel scarcity?

Another Christian terrorist was spotted. Enemy of progress

If Peter obi was in power all this would not had happened...fuel will be available and cheap

ivandragon:




Anyway, I guess some persons love seeing others suffer so they can feel psychologically and financially superior.

You did not need to be abusive by the way, old man. I did not abuse you or call you names. Thanks.

P.S

Here is some reading on the matter

Reflections on the fuel subsidy regime

FG is still paying subsidy in trillions...deny it. A nairaland thread

Fuel subsidies bad . (Author did write a follow up, where he argues it was too soon)

The fuel subsidy dilemma

Zxcvbnmghtr:


You are the ones that are used too always crying 😭. If things are working well, you go dey cry. If not working well na still to dey cry. I bet you. Not a single person from Sokoto have lamented on this thread because they know better. Abi are you from Sokoto, living in Sokoto?

You're correct, they can suffer and endure if a person approved by them is in power.

nairalanda1:


Because at the end, people want to be paid. And because profits make things move faster because...people want to be paid.

Unless you want us to go into more and more debt to get the subsidy you want. Keeping fuel at N40 per liter would cost us billions of dollars more than our current budget and reserves.

My eyes were opened in 2012. I ain't going back.

You won't like it if government set your prices to help the poor. Business people should have a right to set prices in a way that they see fit. And the oil sector needs to build more refineries, upgrade exisiting ones, help us build an efficent gas processing and supply system, to reduce flaring. All this costs money.

Has nothing to do with whoever is in power. Tinubu would agree with you...as he is keeping on subsides. I don't

We have lost 4 refineries and billions in potential revenue to 50 years of subsides. iT IS not working here. Time we ended the charade.

All these assertions you are making would have been okay if the money saved from subsidy won’t be looted eventually... or it looks like you forgot that ?

khalling2008:

Another Christian terrorist was spotted. Enemy of progress

I'm sure you must be a terrorist in real life for you to spot a terrorist on a faceless platform.Its either you are trying hard to blackmail Islam or you are just an extremist. Either ways,you are worse than horrible.

Murketeer:

All these assertions you are making would have been okay if the money saved from subsidy won’t be looted eventually... or it looks like you forgot that ?

That is where 'holding government to account' bit of democracy comes in, and it is a job for everyone.

Usmanovic95:


I'm sure you must be a terrorist in real life for you to spot a terrorist on a faceless platform.Its either you are trying hard to blackmail Islam or you are just an extremist. Either ways,you are worse than horrible.

my post has anything to do with Islam. My post was directed at those who want Nigeria to fail and most people who want Nigeria to fail are Christian terrorists from the Ipob region

nairalanda1:


You did not need to be abusive by the way, old man. I did not abuse you or call you names. Thanks.

P.S

Here is some reading on the matter

Reflections on the fuel subsidy regime

FG is still paying subsidy in trillions...deny it. A nairaland thread

Fuel subsidies bad . (Author did write a follow up, where he argues it was too soon)

The fuel subsidy dilemma

I apologise if that statement came off as insulting. It was not my intention.

What I think you choose to skip over is that the government refuses to address the issues that have made subsidies unsustainable or unappealing.

Paying subsidy on fuel is not bad. Intact many developed countries do so even the Almighty USA as can be seen below.

https://humanglemedia.com/fact-check-is-nigeria-the-only-country-with-a-petrol-subsidy-programme-no/

https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/value-of-fossil-fuel-subsidies-by-fuel-in-the-top-25-countries-2022

https://businessday.ng/energy/article/china-russia-india-usa-led-7trn-fuel-subsidy-spend-in-2022/?amp=1

So, instead of the government being cowardly in its approach to subsidy removal, it needs to tackle the issues first, then determine if removing subsidies is the best way to go.

Mind you, in 2012 when GEJ moved to end subsidy on PMS, not only did he introduce various programmes to cushion the effect, he had also just increased the minimum wage and was ensuring that goods and services were relatively stable.

I mean, why should paying pay more when their purchasing power has been seriously eroded?

ivandragon:



I apologise if that statement came off as insulting. It was not my intention.

What I think you choose to skip over is that the government refuses to address the issues that have made subsidies unsustainable or unappealing.

Paying subsidy on fuel is not bad. Intact many developed countries do so even the Almighty USA as can be seen below.

https://humanglemedia.com/fact-check-is-nigeria-the-only-country-with-a-petrol-subsidy-programme-no/

https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/value-of-fossil-fuel-subsidies-by-fuel-in-the-top-25-countries-2022

https://businessday.ng/energy/article/china-russia-india-usa-led-7trn-fuel-subsidy-spend-in-2022/?amp=1

So, instead of the government being cowardly in its approach to subsidy removal, it needs to tackle the issues first, then determine if removing subsidies is the best way to go.

The USA also

1. Does not set the prices of fuel

2.Pays subsides to the refineries which use the money to try to reduce costs, but at the end, they set their prices, and make a profit.

3. Does not set the price of fuel below production cost and pay the difference in the form of a subsidy as we do here, thus opening the risk of subsidy costs rising to the point where debt has to be taken on to pay for it.

4. Has a higher tax collection rate than Nigeria, and a higher gdp to boot.

5. There are some form of subsides...energy subsides...for the poor. But you have to be means tested essentially before you fall into the realm of getting government assistance, and once you back on your feet.

6. Fuel prices are not uniform. Some states even have higher prices than others due to heavy tax on top of the fuel eg California.

nairalanda1:


The USA also

1. Does not set the prices of fuel

2.Pays subsides to the refineries which use the money to try to reduce costs, but at the end, they set their prices, and make a profit.

3. Does not set the price of fuel below production cost and pay the difference in the form of a subsidy as we do here, thus opening the risk of subsidy costs rising to the point where debt has to be taken on to pay for it.

4. Has a higher tax collection rate than Nigeria, and a higher gdp to boot.

5. There are some form of subsides...energy subsides...for the poor. But you have to be means tested essentially before you fall into the realm of getting government assistance, and once you back on your feet.

6. Fuel prices are not uniform. Some states even have higher prices than others due to heavy tax on top of the fuel eg California.

Bottom line?

Subsidies are being paid. Directly or indirectly.

khalling2008:

Wailing wailer wailest

Begging, Begger, Beggerest.
Abeg send 911 truck to come and pack your Beggers off of our streets

ivandragon:


Bottom line?

Subsidies are being paid. Directly or indirectly.

But at the end, the companies set their prices and are free to make profits, the subsides are not permanent, and crucially, they are not consumption subsides, they are production subsides. And consumption subsides go to a subset of the populaiton, not everyone. And the subsides are paid from heavy taxation on a diversified, productive economy, not an economy that relies on selling just one thing, whose price is never where we want it.

seborrhic:
I thought any revolution in Nigeria would start from and only become effective when it involves the North.
But this dispensation has shown that the aboki is as easily hoodwinked and silenced by little crumbs and intimidation.
₦2k per little and yet they have not trooped to the streets!

My brother they are even happy buying it @2500/litre.

Hausa man go tell you once God gives him the money and the fuel is available,is not disturbed by the price.

Transport to my work place on a normal day na 2600 to and fro. Go alone yesterday is 4k.

The LGA I worked is insecured, so I don't reside there. I do to and fro from sokoto town

nairalanda1:


But at the end, the companies set their prices and are free to make profits, the subsides are not permanent, and crucially, they are not consumption subsides, they are production subsides. And consumption subsides go to a subset of the populaiton, not everyone. And the subsides are paid from heavy taxation on a diversified, productive economy, not an economy that relies on selling just one thing, whose price is never where we want it.

Bottom line...

Subsidies are being paid, right?

ivandragon:


Bottom line...

Subsidies are being paid, right?

Bottom line...

1.Nigeria earns most of its money from oil. USA is a diversified economy

2.There is a difference between production subsides...usa, and consumption subsides...nigeris.

3.Subsides are being paid, but unfortunately, it is not like Nigeria where we force fuel to be sold at a loss, and pay a subsidy that cannot cover the loss, meaning we go into more debt.

You may be happy that subsides are being paid, but at the end, the US accepts the reality of things costing money...you and most nigerians do not. It is kind of hard, but things do cost money.

See Venezuela. Pay as much subsides, even more than NIgeria, their economy is shot with destruction.

(FIN).

You win, if you like.

The Nigerian National Petroleum Company Limited (NNPC Ltd) wishes to clarify that the tightness in the supply of Premium Motor Spirit currently being experienced in some areas across the country is as a result of logistics issues and that they have been resolved,” the company said in a statement on Thursday evening.

Foolish government and government agency (NNPCL) did the distribution of these product started yesterday? that you are having logistics issues? or is there something you are not telling us? insecurity? abi Bandits have started collecting EGUNJE from tanker drivers? una never see anything. as for Sokoto residents and indigene, stop lamenting and hold that stupid Tambulance Aminu responsible for supporting Atiku against a credible PDP leadership.

nairalanda1:


Bottom line...

1.Nigeria earns most of its money from oil. USA is a diversified economy

2.There is a difference between production subsides...usa, and consumption subsides...nigeris.

3.Subsides are being paid, but unfortunately, it is not like Nigeria where we force fuel to be sold at a loss, and pay a subsidy that cannot cover the loss, meaning we go into more debt.

You may be happy that subsides are being paid, but at the end, the US accepts the reality of things costing money...you and most nigerians do not. It is kind of hard, but things do cost money.

See Venezuela. Pay as much subsides, even more than NIgeria, their economy is shot with destruction.

(FIN).

You win, if you like.

It's not a matter of winning and I would let you have the last word since I quoted you first.

But the point is, removing subsidies is not an end in itself and especially not so if it creates more hardship than it solves.

You and your likes are the ones that are not ready to hold the government to account because you can easily afford whatever prices it rises to.

I cannot understand how the masses should be made to suffer because the government is too cowardly or complicit in the corruption and ineptitude allowed to fester in a system.

For every Venezuela, there is a US, Canada and even Germany to learn from.

ivandragon:


It's not a matter of winning and I would let you have the last word since I quoted you first.

But the point is, removing subsidies is not an end in itself and especially not so if it creates more hardship than it solves.

Well, keeping subsidy is causing more problems than we would like. We have lost refineries, and millions in cash, and we have ended up with corruption.

You and your likes are the ones that are not ready to hold the government to account because you can easily afford whatever prices it rises to.

IN other words, because i disagree with you, that means that i don't want government held to account. A funny idea amongst most nairalanders.

Holding government to account is independent of the subsidy issue. The problem is, because of the cake sharing method of our government, holding government to account is seen as opposing the tribe or the side in power. As seen recently. and in the past.

Still, it has to be done, and I think my past comments show my stance on the matter.

I cannot understand how the masses should be made to suffer because the government is too cowardly or complicit in the corruption and ineptitude allowed to fester in a system.

1.Well, I don;t think the masses should suffer job losses, increased debts, and loss of government revenue, as well as budget deficits that subsidy promotes. And subsidies ironically prevent government welfare projects from working.

2.Again, you assume because i disagree with you on subsides, therefore i support government ineptitude. That is a fallacy, as I have explained above.

For every Venezuela, there is a US, Canada and even Germany to learn from.

US, Canada and germany all fund any subsides through the kind of tax rates (which would be a good idea for nigeria...as the world bank has repeatedly stated we don;t charge enough in tax...and it is making us come to them more for loans, and they really want it to stop)...which if they were charged in Nigeria, would make Nigerians go gaga.

Nigeria has a very poor tax to gdp ratio, and also has about 70% of people paying zero tax to the government at federal and state level.As such we don't have the revenue for paying for massive subsides that you want. All we have is oil, whose prices are never been at the place we want them to be, meaning we have poor revenue......and incure a lot of debts from prolonged periods of low oil prices where we have to borrow to make up.

So, we cannot afford subsides, which sadly this government is blind to. Our rising debt is also eating most of our revenue. If tinubu had not done a partial removal, indeed if people like Buuhari and gej and obasanjo and many of our past leaders had not done partial removals of subsides...which is why fuel does not cost 15 kobo as it used to eons ago...we would have had a situation where subsidy costs eat our revenue, and money we don't even have. Then we would reach peak Sri Lanka level. All dressed up and nowhere to go.

And even then subsides in some developed nations are worsening their debt. Germany has a massive debt from subsidising the rail system alone.


Niger, our northern neighbour, should by rights have a subsidy, they are poor, porrer than us even. Yet fuel costs over 1000 naira per liter there. Maybe their government is insensitive. Same for most of our african brehtren. LIbya that has subsides, has a massive smuggling problem that it is using jet fighters to fight now.(and I wish I was lying on that).

Dude you have a soul,you are a good human with empathy. Ask you friend what happen to the 1 trillion they have been saving per 2 months since last year in subsidey removal https://businessday.ng/news/article/we-have-saved-over-a-trillion-naira-from-subsidy-removal-tinubu/.

God bless you.

ivandragon:


It's not a matter of winning and I would let you have the last word since I quoted you first.

But the point is, removing subsidies is not an end in itself and especially not so if it creates more hardship than it solves.

You and your likes are the ones that are not ready to hold the government to account because you can easily afford whatever prices it rises to.

I cannot understand how the masses should be made to suffer because the government is too cowardly or complicit in the corruption and ineptitude allowed to fester in a system.

For every Venezuela, there is a US, Canada and even Germany to learn from.

Truthsandtrusts:






Bloody Liar's, Rivers State fuel sells at N670 ....

Sokoto and some other northern states have been confirmed by NNPC. Read slowly...