Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! - Car Talk - Nairaland
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| Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 6:44pm On Dec 03, 2012 |
Hi All, All the talk about Car racing on the Abuja Car street racing thread has gotten me all fired up... I Had always wished to get myself a Mercedes w124 E500 and maybe now is the time to start making some serious moves. I do however have a few questions which i would appreciate if they are answered by the pros on this section (as regards the mechanical questions) and the dealers (as regards pricing). I will make the final decision based on all of your expert advice... Thanks in advance. Question 1, looking at that monstrous V8 M119 5.0L Engine, I can already imagine Naija mechanics telling me " Oga, na to convert am to 4 Cylinder toyota corolla engine  " So the most important question is how much of a DIY car is it? Siena, your vast experience would be of immense help. is it a DIY car?. In the online fora i've looked at, it seems to be, but then we may not have access to specialized tools here in Nigeria etc..: I do have quite some tools sha... including compression tester, fuel pump pressure meter etc and also have access to some heavy automobile equipment like car lift, power jack etc when necessary. Also is there any info on reliability and any peculiar problems to look out for? Im looking at either the automatic or manual versions... I really don't care which though i guess the manual tranny would be a wiser choice.Question 2, Pricing. The price of a facelift e500 in Mainland Europe is like 12,000 Euros. I was wondering whether it would be cheaper in the UK (its only available as LHD and should probably be a bit cheaper in the UK since its an import and now quite aged... or so i think). Does anybody have an idea of the US price? I prefer the 4 door sedan, but wont mind the 2 door coupe or drop top (convertible) if available. Thanks Guys for your contributions. Please no comments on the following; Fuel economy (i know its thirsty), Safety (I do not intend to race on public congested roads... maybe I'd challenge Ikenna someday when he gets his 406 v6 and we'd try it out on the freeway from abuja to the east ), Age (IMO, its an ageless classic), Thanks Guys for your contributions... 1 Like
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| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 7:11pm On Dec 03, 2012 |
Bump ^ |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Nobody: 7:49pm On Dec 03, 2012 |
t-die: I'll be back to this thread bro. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 9:00pm On Dec 03, 2012 |
Siena: Thanks Siena. Am eagerly expecting your contributions. Am seriously considering getting the cheapest, but well used one I can find. I probably would also have to battle with nigeria customs since it is above the 15yr age limit imposed on normal import vehicles in Nigeria. Would probably have to open up another thread to ask some of the clearing agents on NL how to go about this. The decision to buy will however be mainly based on expert reviews and the practicality of being able to maintain it without bending over backwards too much. Ikenna do you take me up on my offer... E500 vs your 605 or 505v6. (406 v6 is much younger.... Dem no dey the same class.. ;-) ) just joking abeg. Derailers, or people talking thrash on my thread will be dealt with one by one.... Lol |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 9:50pm On Dec 03, 2012 |
Come, my original title for this thread has been changed... Ikenna what have you done :-). Anyways I'm still waiting... 1 Like |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 10:31pm On Dec 03, 2012 |
Bump ^ |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 8:17am On Dec 04, 2012 |
Bump |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 12:42pm On Dec 04, 2012 |
Hey Guys... Am still waiting o.... |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Ikenna351(m): 7:54pm On Dec 04, 2012 |
t-die: W124 E500 vs 406 V6 D9? No make sense! Since the W124 E500 is RWD, it makes more sence to compete with my RWD 505 V6, even though the benz will dust mine, considering its v8, while my baby is v6. But the handling is what am looking at here. No matter how good a FWD powerful engine car is, there is one handling quality it lacks which RWD powerful engine car posses. You can only tell when you handle both. My 605 v6 was enough to convince me of that. Yes, the 605 v6 is a great handler, but ain't no match to my 505 v6 in handling, when in action. So fun to pull stunts with on high speed! But men! That Benz will be big time MACHINE! See ground clearance and structure! To hell with fuel economy if that car becomes mine, I tell you! Trac is one of those that are in a better position to enlighteen you on the good and annoyances of that Benz. I know nothing about Benz. I just love driving them. Ikenna. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Nobody: 9:19pm On Dec 04, 2012 |
For the sake of all things holy, please leave that rare Merceds in Europe where it can be well cared for. As an Autoist, nothing pains me more than to see vehicles used for and in the wrong application. 1 Like |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Nobody: 9:59pm On Dec 04, 2012 |
t-die: My apologies for my late response. 1)That car will NOT be easy to look after in Nigeria, unless you're willing to pay big bucks, and take her to a franchise, or decent Mercedes-Benz dealership. At the very least, an independent specialist. The W124 E500 had the engine bay extensively reworked to accommodate the big V8, but it's still a tight fit, the width is the same as in an I4 car. Most items are not easy to deal with, access is poor. It's Porsche-built, so reliability should be good. But, it's still a highly-strung beast, and NOT a DIY automobile, unless you're really technically-minded. I'm not sure if a manual gearbox was an option, I've never seen one, though I may well be wrong. 2) How expensive? Well, there's one 125 miles from me right now, with an asking price of £6,500 / €7,995 / N1,643,969. Which is pretty good for one of them. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 11:11pm On Dec 04, 2012 |
Ouch... There goes my dream....  I do not know of any Merc dealerships here that would be up to the task of maintaining an old Merc. I have seen a few Merc franchises in Lagos but they only work on the newer Benzes. What of the W211 Merc E500...?? Is it any better? As regards maintenance or DIY? The price seems fair enough, though one might be quite lucky and find a very cheap specimen in Cotonou, such Cars are usually very cheap there because there is almost no demand. As for the W211 E500, I saw a cheap neat LHD specimen on @ about 4000 Pounds on Gumtree.com, though I actually won't buy a Car online without having it checked out by a savvy person. THe major issue, however, is not buying the car, no matter how expensive it is, but maintaining it. So if both the W124 and the W211 E500s are going to cost an arm and a leg to run, then I probably would have to settle for less... is the W124 E320 a good compromise between performance and running costs? is there a W124 E400? |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Nobody: 12:51am On Dec 05, 2012 |
Siena: t-die: My apologies for my late response. God that is a fantastic bargain. The car is actually on my shortlist. The cheapest that I have seen here in SoCal is $15,000. There's one on eBay for $23,000 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-Mercedes-Benz-500E-Awesome-/190763817785?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c6a68db39 |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Nobody: 1:20am On Dec 05, 2012 |
This is the one I've seen on eBay, it's a '93: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370670483391?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by yungboss(m): 4:13am On Dec 07, 2012 |
E500 ''ageless classic'' i love that. I love that car, a timeless beauty. Two Cars on my list i hope to own some day (regardless of age) are: '95 or '97 bmw e36 M3 euro and W202 C43 amg. T-die, have you considered the 43 AMG? I do not know how common they are these days...as for your race with ikenna, know that the stock e500 is v8, does 0 to 60 in 5.6s despite its weight. Quarter mile is about 14s or less, the e320 might do the job for you. One of my friends has an e220. Nice interior and beautiful body. Whenever we discuss, we discuss about his car among many other issues... |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Nobody: 8:56pm On Dec 09, 2012 |
If u have never own a mercedes, u aint got a car. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Trac: 8:44am On Dec 10, 2012 |
t-die: Seems to me that you know nothing about cars; how much more Mercedes. E500 Limited cannot on any scale be compared to the E500. The difference begins when you close the door and your conclusion is already made. Behind the wheel upon driving; road kinematics, drivers feedback and sheer driving pleasure puts the E500 way behind. The engine designation in the E500 limited is an SL engine with some traits of competition as a lesser priority. So, it isn't the same configurations in the 420/500 of that generational era. If you are not inclined to high-performance cars, overlook the 500 Limited. Only 500 were made. I won't be worried about the maintenance but how you will maintain it. The parts are significantly higher than the normal variants, and the age of the vehicle makes it a lot more expensive to own; even if it had always been a garage queen. The 124's at this point have their issues that are age-related. They work well but the pit-fall is if you buy a poorly maintained vehicle. The key is getting a well-maintained one but you will not pay book-value for it. The E500 that you are calling a deal is a deal because the vehicle itself is "junk." It has no worth and nobody wants them. Where I live, hardly do I see a first generation E Class of the 211 era. The worst of them all is the 2003 model. There are dealerships that will refuse to take it in as a trade-in. It is also difficult to sell it. It's also 2014 (around the corner), be ready to spend some money on the brake family; you are on your own. I need not talk much on that; but to save further post, Mercedes was forced to increase tolerance in their build specification to accommodate the Chrysler portfolio. As we know today, the 211 and Chrysler 300 are one of the same; same chassis, different engines and obviously, many patents omitted from the Chrysler model. This explains a lot and also why it doesn't hold up as well. To own one of these, equip yourself with an extended warranty because there will be needless repairs to be made and some remedial repairs for the intermittent issues that weren't resolved the first time. I don't mean to be harsh; if you are worried about maintenance and you are opting for an MB, you are making a wrong choice. The ECU has a mind of its own and will not tolerate certain malfunctions. It will shut the vehicle down and prevent it from starting and you will have to tow it and have it fixed before the siege is lifted. This is not to say one shouldn't be reasonable concerning operational maintenance, but examining the cost. This should have been posted at the Mercedes thread. Your question would have been answered in greater details plus the enthusiasts will give you their ownership inputs. Lest I forget, the first image is either an E60 or a customised lowered E500 limited. It does have Mercedes bumpers though. It's hard to tell (or the image has been altered). It is not at factory configuration.  All the best in your decision: 1 Like |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Trac: 8:50am On Dec 10, 2012 |
yungboss: E500 ''ageless classic'' i love that. I love that car, a timeless beauty. The fellow is concerned about cost of ownership and maintenance and you are recommending the C43; how corny - truly, how corny. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 10:13am On Dec 10, 2012 |
Trac: Thats not quite right. I am not concerned about the cost of ownership/maintenance. My problem with Naija is that even when you pay premium for services, you still hardly get quality. Can you remember the thread where a NLander was complaining about rust in a brand new Ford he bought from coscharis? I also have friends with worse stories from toyota and peugeot authorized dealerships. These days I have to order almost all my replacement parts for my small peugeot from abroad and directly supervise the mechanic fixing it (even though the workshop looks sophiscated and classy). The reason I was asking about the w124 being a DIYer was that I do not know of an authorized mercedes dealership around here with the expertise to work on the car in my axis. ( i live and work in Uyo and driving to abuja or lagos (more than 10 hours each) to get my car fixed or serviced is a bit impractical). The Mercedes plant in Enugu has been shut down for quite a while now (ANAMCO). I appreciate your expert merc savvy but your tone sounds a bit condescending... we no dey quarrel o... |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Trac: 6:38am On Dec 11, 2012 |
t-die: My objective was to be as straight (forward) as possible without "stories" or a long thread. My apologies if I sounded condescending. That is not in my nature. The post might also sound fragmented; I cropped the initial text to make it compact. Don't be annoyed. You are a wise person and I (honestly) misjudged you. It is true what you have said. I once spent over $1200 on a problem plus remedial repairs. By the time I made it to my home 350 miles away, the problem reoccurred again. The person that always worked on my car took a whole day to diagnose it and the problem was a $60 part (I think $25 in labour) that was failing. Hence, the intermittent problem. I was used as trial & error. What I believe was when the battery was taken off the terminal, and reconnected when whatever they had to do was over, the car would start. Since the cost isn't an issue, your only drawback is who will perform service on it. Whatever choice you make, I (including others) have no other choice but to honor it. Nigerians are very intelligent. There are many that can work on these vehicles but people wouldn't want to patronize them because they are expensive or some reason that can't be justified in the short-term but not the long-run. For lack of a better phrase, you can consider the first generation 211 as experimental. They are cheap and low miles' because they are poorly built. The little things are annoying and expensive, the major is the same; overall, it is undependable. The worst being the 2003 model. The 2007-2009 do not have what the aforementioned was noted for in reliability. this is not to say they do not have its own issues. If you are keeping for a long time, don't buy a V6. It is sectioned and catastrophic failures have been known. The 124 is not truly a difficult car to own. It is a proper executive vehicle and will adhere to maintenance intervals. It is over-engineered and was built from a durable approach and not from a reliable approach. The IM's should not be an issue for anyone that could turn a wrench. Just be sure to torque it to specifications. The ignition is very picky and the plugs needed for that specifications fitted are the copper non-resistant plugs (i.e. 103/104/119). Wiring loom is an issue for the '94 and '95 for they are organic based and they deteriorate over time or over heat. This is an expensive repair. The secret to longevity is sticking to genuine parts and the correct fluid. If you go through my previous posts, I responded with recommended suspension services to be done and a few to replace. If you consider this model, try as much as possible to avoid the ASR fitted variants. It is difficult troubleshooting when something goes wrong. They can be identified easily via the wiper on the lens of the headlight. Beyond a few misc., you will at least find one person that can work on that vehicle and is reputable. There are services only a professional can do and the services will be guaranteed. A head gasket job is a major job on the 320's and a machinist has to be involved. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by yungboss(m): 8:08pm On Dec 12, 2012 |
Trac:wow, This is kind of ridiculous, you got it twisted Trac, t-die, My reason for mentioning the c43 was not predicated on economy, but performance. from the tone of my post, this was obvious ( i mentioned the OP's proposed race with Ikenna, talked about the 0 to 60 time of the Merc. etc)i assumed the C43 was newer, more sporty and elegant comnpared to the E500... my comment was misconstrued by Trac...really suprised |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 8:22am On Dec 13, 2012 |
yungboss: Youngboss, I appreciate your suggestion. My reply was targeted at Trac. He sounded a bit too brash/brazen. But he's apologized for that. I do not know much about the C43. I only know that Merc qulity took a nosedive after the w124. Can you throw more light on how much of a DIY car it is? |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by brojero: 8:51pm On Dec 13, 2012 |
[quote author=t-die]Hi All, I do however have a few questions which i would appreciate if they are answered by the pros on this section (as regards the mechanical questions) and the dealers (as regards pricing). I will make the final decision based on all of your expert advice... Thanks in advance. [/quote W124 E500 is one of the best Mercs you can get. I'd recommend the facelift E500 from 1994 onwards. The problem with the UK ones is Rust, but if you have access to some of the really good body guys I know exist in 9ja you can take a risk. Other wise pay a bit extra for a rust free example I've had W124's for many years and I do all engine work myself. With the right tools and a little patience you'll be fine. The M119 engine uses the HFM ignition system, which I find much easier to maintain over the Bosch K- Jetronic systems of the pre facelift models If you do decide to get one, I suggest you ]subscribe to MB's online parts catalogue. It will give you all the correct part numbers for your actual car (enter your chassis number). All parts are available from MB, even though the local MB dealer may not have them in stock, you can ask them to order direct from Germany on your behalf, or ask a friend in Europe or the USA to order the parts for you. MB is brilliant in this regard, they have parts for all their models even going as far back as the 60's. Another good source of knowledge is the BenzWorld forum If you're looking at getting one, better move quick! their prices are set to go through the roof as they become more and more rare. MB EPC site: http://www.service-and-parts.net BenzWorld site: www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/ Good Luck |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by olenyi: 9:45pm On Jan 12, 2013 |
@ OP. Just for clearification, i think the Anamco plant in Enugu is still operating. Regards. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Trac: 7:17am On Feb 07, 2013 |
t-die: You really have to pardon me. I'm not a social butterfly but go straight to the point. My temperament leans faintly towards play; that's why it seems as though I'm harsh. It's all written text and mannerism isn't conveyed. I'll briefly discuss on this as a reply. C43, C36, E500 and quality control. It is erroneous to believe quality dropped after the 124 series. Quality dropped in the 90's. It is very evident from the '94 models onward, but it started at the turn of the '90's. The better MB's are the pre-facelifted models of the 124 series. The 124's and 140's were over-engineered. Keep in mind that the design of the 124's started most likely in the late 60's to early 70's. Some of the 124's were sold at a loss. The engineering history behind the 140's is of a particular kind that I'm yet to find in any automotive history. At manufacturing, the production cost was enormous; so much the project engineer was fired. It still is the most luxurious vehicle in the world followed by the 600. To recover cost, MB went "cognitive." The C Class was the beginning of an incomplete Mercedes, the 210 (horrible) followed afterwards and at the end of the 140 production, it was given a burial; never to return to over-engineering. I followed MB's philosophy and engineering approach growing up. The best MB that has ever rolled upon the surface of this earth is the Series 123. Anyone that says otherwise in my opinion knows nothing about motoring. E500: the closest to this model is the C43. It handles identically to the 500 limited specification laterally. The major revisions to the AMG-tuned variants were extensive suspension revisions. The plant is a port from the E430 with minor refreshes; that is to make it pseudo-competition-like or its AMG mannerism. In summary, lateral athleticism was the objective for the C43's. Personally, I'll go for a C36 due to the design recipes, sheer comprehensive AMG conversion and a proper tuning with little to no ECU performance remapping. Basically, the engine was stripped, replacing most of the internals with AMG components. There is plenty more to love; a 104 over a 113 is a decision well thought-of. Post-war AMG's are robust. It will take abuse and still endure with you. Parts are expensive but the traditional Mercedes ownership experience is still cultured within those models. The ECU in the contemporary models will shut the engine down and demand service in negotiation. The C43 will need its suspension in at least good condition. It's a firm-like setup and it's a C Class. @ YoungBoss Do you know you can get an E320 to sprint identical times as the E500 limited (factory specification)? MB took a few steps to give the 320 the numbers it has. This was for various reasons. A sprint never details the performance of a car. If that was the case, then Americans build the best cars in the world with their sub-standard chassis and poor lateral agility. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Ikenna351(m): 7:39am On Feb 07, 2013 |
^^^^ After watching Taken 2; after seeing what w124 was doing in that movie, i strongly agree with you, that w124 was over engineered. An old car but really like its handling/character. I love what the rear was doing when pushed to a corner on high speed, while been chased, coupled with what the girl was doing with that stick. RWD can be such a fun to put stunt on in a corner! If am a Benz fan, i would surely have the facelifted w124 in my collection, a stick V6/V8 one. Ikenna. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 3:26pm On Feb 07, 2013 |
Ikenna351: ^^^^ Lol. Though if you watch the w124 taxi chase sequence (Taken 2) closely, you'd notice that both the pre-facelift and the facelift versions were used interchangeably... Poor acting in my opinion. I promptly reported it on moviemistakes.com. Anyway I'm getting myself a w124 for my birthday in July. Though it'd be an e320 Stick shift. Am also ordering a complete c43 Bodykit from the US to go with it (see pix). Would have to use oga inspired and probably have them fit in the bodykit before shipping down to Nigeria... And then I'll race your 505 V6 or your 406 V6
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| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Ikenna351(m): 3:46pm On Feb 07, 2013 |
t-die: Wow! See machine! I didn't even notice it was 2 w124 that were used as 1 in the chase in that movie. I was so carried away with what the vehicle was doing, whenever the girl push the car into a corner. Very amazing! As for racing with my Baby, the 505 V6, we shall see about at. But it may be with 406 V6 stick instead, when I eventually get one, since I pamper my 505 V6 a lot. I don't want any scratch on her. I still wear her Pampers. Ikenna. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by yungboss(m): 6:03pm On Feb 07, 2013 |
T-die, If you would leave the 320's natural body the way it is it would be better, the C43 is not as bulky as the 320, how possible wiould it be for the modification, the picture above, is it the one you are placing an order for? |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by tdie: 8:51pm On Feb 07, 2013 |
yungboss: T-die, Hey Youngboss, the modification in the picture above is very possible. The front and back bumpers, as well as the sideskirts are available on www.bodykits.com as well as on ebay. My only concern would be having them installed on the car properly... That's why I'd probably have it done abroad before shipping the car down. I think that the body kit makes the car look a bit more modern without totally removing the classic look of the 124... |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Trac: 9:00am On Feb 08, 2013 |
Ikenna351: ^^^^ Let me correct you. Kinematics of a particle is not over-engineering. The term "over-engineering" cannot be translated literally. It is an approach. It is processing everything that could go wrong to achieve a product that is acme. The outcome to this conclusion is durability. Many attributes are found within this approach; attention-to-detail, lots of research, extensive testings, no-expense-spared budget and so on. There is absolutely no room for reliability; for it is irreconcilable. Since a "system" is only as good as its weakest link, it is extensively time consuming when it is a-new. Most of the MB's were over-engineered and the last one was the 1999 S Class. A movie cannot portray a car's athleticism. This is so because the frames are inconsistent and the allusion that fictional with respect to the scene in question (portrayed scenerio). However, MB spent millions of DM. composing the suspension of the model. There are two setups. The standard and the sportline. The best suspension for the Series is the sportline and no further improvements can be done. It is ideal in all condition, comfort and performance in an array and it is for the 6 cylinder models. Anything else is a downgrade. They designed the chassis and fitted upon it one of the most complicated suspension configurations outside of the racing world on it. I can tell you one thing; it is not easy theoretically. Above all, the 123's are better than the 124's. It's just what it is. No post-war MB has a V6. Also, the first V6 MB has made is in the last model C Class. |
| Re: Getting A Facelift Mercedes W124 E500... Advice please! by Nobody: 2:19pm On Feb 09, 2013 |
t-die: Personally, I'm a great fan of the OEM look. After market bodykits are garbage. I've fitted them on client's automobile (at their requests) and the fitment is like dogshit. An aftermarket bumper can take hours to get the fitment 100%, and even then, it'll never look right. It all depends on what you're satisfied with. I'm very ana-l when it comes to automobile, and I won't compromise on quality. I would only fit bumpers / skirts off the equivalent MB Sport / AMG model. Nothing else will do. Some of these kits are also made of fibreglass, and stress cracks are a big issue. It may look average when first fitted, give it six months, and your MB will be looking bad. Such kits are aimed at teenagers, and mostly fitted to Honda Civics and similar automobile. The MB is a classy vehicle, and an aftermarket bodykit will detract from that look. I've also looked at the bodykits on that site, and they're made of fibreglass, just as I suspected they would be. Good luck. |
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