Martian:

@ Imhotep and others who want atheists to prove that the christian god doesn't exist.

I'm a "mumu" atheist, so I will need you to tell me the methods you used to prove the non existence of Sango, Zeus, Appollo, Eastre, Amadioha. 

Once you do this, I'll use the same method to prove that your precious jew doesn't exist.

You telling an atheist to disprove your god is like me telling you to disprove that my purple unicorn didn't dictate this post.

imhotep:

Still waiting for convincing proof(s) for the non-existence of God.

I have seen only exercises in oratory

vedaxcool:

To me the person that started this thread shld use a little more courtesy, Imagine the implication of the thread that is any atheist that responds is a mumu, that is not right.

Now, for the atheist I will say that God is not a figment of our Imagination he is a reality based on rational thinking for if I ask why is it that we came to exist, you atheist will say By chance, but looking
at the Pyramids, they couldn't have appeared by chance, but out of a well planned out sequence. Now based on this rationalism we can also come to the reason that Life, the earth, the Galaxy and the Universe
it could have out of chance for a number the simply reason that it is well ordered the Human body is seen as a being perfect, in all we can say that it Takes an excellent planner to produce something
of such perfection. That Excellent Planner is God. what i am saying does begs the question but again it gives an indication on why God is far from being our imagination

Furthermore, Dreams remains one relm where one can conclude that there is sufficient evidence to Prove that God not only exist, but is interacting with his creatures as the Qur'an says " I shall show them
my signs in their dreams and the Furthermost regions of the earth" My question arise how is it possible for someone to dream up the future in it's clearest possible occurence? ONLY THE One who knows the
future can adequately give you the pictures of tomorrow.

Read the following

- during the formation of the earth, we learn that at some point Carbondioxide was trapped in the atmosphere, too much carbon dioixde would have made the earth too hot to be inhabitable too little would have
made the earth too cold for us to live in, which leaves with a middle course, the right amount, Pure Luck, no. An active PLANNER EXECUTING HIS WISHES

-WE HAVE JUPITER IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM, JUPITER ACTS LIKE A BIG BOUNCER, PREVENTING MOST ASTEROIDS AND COMETS FROM HIITING THE EARTH, God place Jupiter in the right position, which has saved us in earth from

-The position of the earth in the galaxy is very important as being to close to the sun would have made it imposible for us to live, being far away from the sun would have made too cold.

Gotter go

On a final note those that  say they want to see God before they believe in him, can do two things, Commit suicide or wait till the day o al Qiyamah

Martian:

God is a reality based on rational thinking? NO, gods are borne out of ignorance and fear.
If you want to be rational, you won't be so certain of something you've never seen and you won't be giving credit to it.
Know one knows how life started, but you abrahamic freaks are so ready to claim the glory for your gods.
There could very well be an intelligent creator, but what makes you think it was a HE? It could very well be a female or something beyond our grasp.
The only reason god is a he is because  human males are the dominant members of the species. If females were the dominant, then god will be a woman.


Dreams are just products of your freaking brain working while you're asleep,  everyone has dreams about people they see, things that happen and things they THINK about a lot. So if you dream about god, it's because you were thinking about a god while you were awake. When I still believed in bulls#it, I had a dream about the jew once and he looked exactly how he is depicted by the Europeans. So, if you dream about mohammed(pbuh bish bish allah), his face will probably be blank because he is never depicted.  But you'll probably wake up, feeling like you just spoke to god's messenger. IT WAS JUST A DREAM.  When kids have bad dreams, adults are quick to tell them it was just dream but when an adult has one, the religious nut thinks it has to do with god!!!!God really is santa claus for adults.

Ok, don't try to reconcile religion with science. It will never work. Science goes from observation to hypothesis, after which comes exhaustive testing in order to arrive at a theory.
Religion goes from observation to FACT. No hypothesis or testing required.

When CO2 was abundant in the earth's atmosphere, organisms like humans would not have been able to acquire oxygen in order to drive cellular respiration, it has nothing to do heat or cold.
When photoautotrophs produced enough O2, other organisms that make use of O2 started to evolve. An active planner wasn't executing HIS wishes.

Jupiter acts like a big bouncer? Lol, you know the planets do not have the same orbit around the sun, right?

But I'm sure all you religious folks still think the sun travels across the sky and goes into hiding behind mountains at night. Mohammed also owned the moon  on many occasions and was it Joshua that made the sun stand still?

The position of the earth in the galaxy is only relevant to us in this solar system. There could be other planets with living organisms in this galaxy, so maybe we are not that special.

On a final note, allah doesntexist, Jehovah doesn't exist and if the part of the quern about mohammed marrying a child is factual, then he was a craddle-robber. 

Martian:

So because some ancient nomad named abraham/Ibrahim didn't know the nature of the sun and moon and decided that some invincible being called Allah is god, that why religion is not based on fear? That sounds like an illiterate trying to figure out nature without the mental capacity to do so.

Martian:


Is that story in your quern too?

Martian:

So god is not a man? I know you don't believe that.  Why don't you start calling your allah SHE, just for convenience.

From all indications you do not have an iota of understanding of what the basic theology of Islam is, as any Muslim worth his salt will tell you that ALLAH is not a man,this is the translation of suratul Iklas
1.Say: He is Allah, the One and Only
2.Allah, the Eternal, Absolute
3.He begetteth not, nor is He begotten
4.And there is none like unto Him.

Now I hope u understand what the verse " there is none like unto him" this indicates there is nothing in existence that resembles God. furthermore do you know the Jews do not concieve God as Looking Like a
man? You are using your clouded understanding of Christianity to brand other religions.

Martian link=topic=119817.msg7057439#msg7057439 date=1288626539:

What else do I need to understand about religion? All I need is faith and total abandon of logic.

Where did you get that crap from, You are the one that have abandoned Logic, as all what you have wrote appears to be some one else's idea.

Martian:

I'm not quoting verbatim from any website, I'm not like you religious nuts who have to told what to believe and how to think.

Neither am I like any atheist nut you know, but from all indication you have showed how "Logical" you can be, as you rely on other atheist Ideas to understand what atheism is about.
One thing I have noted about atheist in NL, 90% of them are atheist not based on any rational thinking but out of frustration and despair, Probably out many of life trouble.

Martian:

Ok, i know about the greenhouse effect, what does that have to do with allah?

If you took time to understand what I wrote, leaving the occurrence of the universe to chance is one of the most ridiculous idea man have thought about, My indications where simple, the formation of the earth and its
position in relation to the viability of our planet couldn't have been by chance as from all indication there is clearly a master plan that have made these arrangement both in quantity of  'substance' and position of earth.

Martian:

So Jupiter's gravitational pull attracts some large bodies that could be harmful to the earth, while pushing smaller bodies from the comet belt towards the inner planets. Where is your unseen god in that? Maybe SHE lives inside Jupiter.

The unseen God is in Heaven if you could Just Jump off a cliff, one of his messengers(angels) would take you to the great beyond, but pls do not try this at home or near a mountain, like I said Everything is clearly an arrangement
which ALLAH has made to His Plan.

Remember you made a claim that Muhammad owns the moon, pls prove your claim or is it one of the many Fictions you atheist create to fool one another.

vedaxcool:

You are very funny, Ibrahim story shows you that the man did some rational thinking about God and his purpose, this puts a Lie to your initial theisis that religion is born out of fear. And for the lack of mental
capacity, you again showed what I have been thinking that your were trained to be an atheist, your atheism is born out of your resentment/fear, as if you an-martian- were to be dropped on mars, I wonder
whether you will be able to making an electric fan talk less of having the "mental capacity" to formulate scientific facts to solve your everyday problem,  as all this fruits of science we enjoy comes a long period
contributions from a wide range of generations.



Where did you get that crap from, You are the one that have abandoned Logic, as all what you have wrote appears to be some one else's idea.
Neither am I like any atheist nut you know, but from all indication you have showed how "Logical" you can be, as you rely on other atheist Ideas to understand what atheism is about.
One thing I have noted about atheist in NL, 90% of them are atheist not based on any rational thinking but out of frustration and despair, Probably out many of life trouble.

If you took time to understand what I wrote, leaving the occurrence of the universe to chance is one of the most ridiculous idea man have thought about, My indications where simple, the formation of the earth and its
position in relation to the viability of our planet couldn't have been by chance as from all indication there is clearly a master plan that have made these arrangement both in quantity of  'substance' and position of earth.The unseen God is in Heaven if you could Just Jump off a cliff, one of his messengers(angels) would take you to the great beyond, but pls do not try this at home or near a mountain, like I said Everything is clearly an arrangement
which ALLAH has made to His Plan.

Remember you made a claim that Muhammad owns the moon, pls prove your claim or is it one of the many Fictions you atheist create to fool one another.

manmustwac:

no matter how they talk reach which ever god you worship will depend on which religion you were born into. For example if you were born and raised in burma you will not only be spesking thier language and eating their traditional food you will be worshipping bhuddah or whatever god they worship. If it was saudi arabia then you'll be speaking arabic and worshipping allah, if you were born over 3000 years ago in greece then it could have been zeus or hades born in nigeria then most like likely christianity or islam which were both imported by our colonial masters or spread from north africa. All these theists are really doing is defending the religion they were programmed to believe.

Martian:

I meant quran, not quern. You know, the book of bullshit some silly africans base their lives on.


I didn't mean that he literally owned the moon, I meant to ask if he isn't believed to have split the moon in two.
Bla bla bla Allah, I'm not going to keep going back with another religious Arab coon. You will keep introducing your u seen god into discussions about logic and science and that's just fine. Lol

If we agree on scientific theories or observations, you will still find  a way to fill in the gaps with your unseen friend. That's called delusion, but I know you won't agree. Black Muslims and black Christians, I don't know who makes my skin crawl the most.

Because you are fed bs by your unseen friend and her alleged holybook doesn't mean I was trained to be an atheist in a similar way.  Islam needs faith, all you need to shed that arab slave mentality is some common sense.

If I jumped off a cliff, gravity will do it's job and I'll be dead,  I'm not in a hurry to die, I have only this one life.
But why don't you climb on top of your house and let's see the power of allah defy gravity, dumb Muslim spook.

Also, I thought the so called Ibrahim's correct name is Abraham. So who's myth is it, the Jews or the Arabs?

restov:

Why do people fight and kill themselves over God. Truth is that they arent fighting to defend God but to defend their religion. Religion gives man influence over others. This is why relivion will take a while more to disappear from the face of this earth. I give them a hundered years.

vedaxcool:

I did not know the British were Muslim during the colonial period, Pls you atheist need to read more often rather than make expensive propaganda, like i said u are trained atheist, your atheism is not a product of your thinking but out of frustrations you faced. [size=28pt]Like I maintained, all you(with other atheist) wrote seems to be from the atheist elders committee, as you atheist are ALL PROGRAMMED TO CLAIM "ALL THEIST ARE PROGRAMMED|" "ALL RELIGION ARE A PRODUCT OF FEAR AND IGNORANCE" BUT YET YOU ATHEIST CONDITION IS MORE PITIABLE AS YOU HAVE ALSO FELL PRAY TO COLONIAL HANG OVERS[/size], NO! THE ATHEISM YOU TALK ABOUT DOES IT HAVE ITS ROOTS IN AFRICA OR COLONIAL IMPORT FROM YOUR godfather Wole?, as they are many people who converted from one religion to another in their search for truth,[size=28pt]but again you use irrational methods to arrive at a conclusion by claiming all theist are programmed to be in a religion what about the convert, I laugh at your "Logic" it is very faulty and over generalizing working by trend rather than by logic, for a person that is suppose to be rational in his approach to doing things, you seem to use Irritable Irrationality. Do have a pleasant day
[/size]



[size=28pt]some statement you made appear more enigmatic than John 3:16 and even more Incoherent than Godlucks whispering, but going further you said if you Jump off a cliff gravity will do its work, you were merely repeating what I wrote, " You find yourself in the Great beyond" which I advised you against doing, Furthermore I won't think of Jumping off a cliff in the belief ALLAH will save me, as I ALLAH does not guide the foolish, it will be foolishness to Jump off a cliff( something common with atheist) and expect ALLAH to intervene, in Islam we are told to invite the disbelievers with reason not the foolishness you advocate, as Muslims rely more reason than Miracles to invite people, that is the chief reason Muhammad PBUH wasn't into the miracle working Business as our christian Brothers usually advocate.[/size]

Poor you, Ibrahim is the Arabic equivalent of the name Abraham, but again you showed irrational reasoning in your argument which exposes you more to my claims that your godlessness is borne out of fear/Ignorance and resentment. Do have a pleasant day.

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence

nferyn:

_{(Ch. Hitchens)}

vedaxcool:

I did not know the British were Muslim during the colonial period,

vedaxcool:

like i said u are trained atheist, your atheism is not a product of your thinking but out of frustrations you faced.

vedaxcool:

Like I maintained, all you(with other atheist) wrote seems to be from the atheist elders committee, as you atheist are

vedaxcool:

ALL PROGRAMMED TO CLAIM "ALL THEIST ARE PROGRAMMED|" "ALL RELIGION ARE A PRODUCT OF FEAR AND IGNORANCE" BUT YET YOU ATHEIST CONDITION IS MORE PITIABLE AS YOU HAVE ALSO FELL PRAY TO COLONIAL HANG OVERS, NO! THE ATHEISM YOU TALK ABOUT DOES IT HAVE ITS ROOTS IN AFRICA OR COLONIAL IMPORT FROM YOUR godfather Wole?,

vedaxcool:

as they are many people who converted from one religion to another in their search for truth,but again you use irrational methods to arrive at a conclusion by claiming all theist are programmed to be in a religion what about the convert, I laugh at your "Logic" it is very faulty and over generalizing working by trend rather than by logic, for a person that is suppose to be rational in his approach to doing things, you seem to use Irritable Irrationality. Do have a pleasant day

manmustwac:

where did i say that? what i meant was christianity was bought to us by our colonial masters and islam spread from north africa to west africa
Who da hell are you to tell me that am a trained atheist. Do you even know me? Am a british born and bred nigerian male who has been an atheist for over 20 years. *1

I just told myself oneday (while thinking about how us humans came into existance) in church that an old man saying let there be light and light just appearing sounded like a fairytale and found evolution easier to believe. Because tyranosaurus and stegosauria (which are dinosaurs) could not fit into the creation story  but do fit into the theory of evolution.*2

Your being ridiculous. There is no such thing as an atheist elders comittee with wole soyinka as head. But am sure there is an humanist society somewhere in nigeria.
Aren't you PROGRAMMED to believe that Islam is the right PROGRAM and christianity the wrong PROGRAM. Isn't the christian PROGRAMMED to believe that christianity is the right PROGAM and that islam is the wrong PROGRAM. The atheist who once was once PROGAMMED  to believe in islam christianity etc but uses reason and rational enquiry to reject dogma is not PROGRAMMED but is a freethinker.
Its not common for a christian to convert to islam or someone born into islam to convert to christianity etc. Most people stick to the religion they were born into. *3

manmustwac:

where did i say that? what i meant was christianity was bought to us by our colonial masters and islam spread from north africa to west africa

Oh, Probably did not see all you wrote, but really so what were you trying to prove? by saying it spread from north Africa? Kuku say that Harmatan Spreads from North frica to west Africa then you would have made sense.

manmustwac link=topic=119817.msg7204873#msg7204873 date=1290558973:

Who da hell are you to tell me that am a trained atheist. Do you even know me? Am a british born and bred nigerian male who has been an atheist for over 20 years.

You are a trained atheist because you are not showing low form of independent and rational thinking, and from every indication you are spewing out what you atheist boss thought u.

[quote author=manmustwac link=topic=119817.msg7204873#msg7204873 date=1290558973]
I just told myself oneday (while thinking about how us humans came into existance) in church that an old man saying let there be light and light just appearing sounded like a fairytale and found evolution easier to believe. Because tyranosaurus and stegosauria (which are dinosaurs) could not fit into the creation story but do fit into the theory of evolution.

Though not holding brief for the biblical story but have you ever entered a house that is lit by the clap of a hand? now that to any lay man is very strange but to the informed it is a "normal" thing. Now again have you ever examine the argument of other religion to know whether they all use the let there be light clause in their doctrine, that is what makes you a mere copyist of the atheist committees' doctrine. On evolution again you showed why you are not being rational, it remains a theory with no conclusive proof, I thought atheist accepted only things based on reality, not suppositions and assumptions?


[quote author=manmustwac link=topic=119817.msg7204873#msg7204873 date=1290558973]
Your being ridiculous. There is no such thing as an atheist elders comittee with wole soyinka as head. But am sure there is an humanist society somewhere in nigeria.

It is figurative, i guess u understand what I mean, you all follow some old atheist dude's thinking.

[quote author=manmustwac link=topic=119817.msg7204873#msg7204873 date=1290558973]
Aren't you PROGRAMMED to believe that Islam is the right PROGRAM and christianity the wrong PROGRAM. Isn't the christian PROGRAMMED to believe that christianity is the right PROGAM and that islam is the wrong PROGRAM. The atheist who once was once PROGAMMED to believe in islam christianity etc but uses reason and rational enquiry to reject dogma is not PROGRAMMED but is a freethinker.
Its not common for a christian to convert to islam or someone born into islam to convert to christianity etc. Most people stick to the religion they were born into.

I have examined my faith to an extent and found its' doctrine very sensible and truthful, in addition questions I have about my faith has been answered to correctly, even as a child I found certain aspect of my faith to have question marks but as an adult this questions I have researched and gotten answers that are acdeptable to me. Again you spewed the same garbage that because one is born into a faith then he follows it uncritically. Again for the mere facts that they are converts from one religion to another disproves your points that people are programmed into a particular faith.

Rhino.4dm:

^^ so manmustwack can equally get angry.

Rhino.4dm:

But would you have been an atheist if you were to be in nigeria?

Rhino.4dm:

? You didnt just became an atheist miraclously/magically/scientifically over night. You did some research and  reasoning based on the works of some past generational atheist and in turn you get PROGRAMMED
and get converted. Abi no be so? ?

Uyi Iredia:

*1 >>>  20 years *i ain't even 20 yet* >>> forget it >>> you are a trained atheist >>> one that has long been in the ranks

Uyi Iredia:

*2 >>> from one fairy tale to another fairy tale >>> i thought as much >>> your post confirms that your mentality equates to that of a chimpanzee

Uyi Iredia:

*3 >>> i agree with all the programming stuff >>> which is why I'm disillusioned with organized Christianity >>> at the moment >>> however it seems a virus affected your own programming >>> BTW why is an atheist a freethinker ? >>> i am of the opinion that the term is misleading

manmustwac:

Yeah i guess its human nature. 



I agree with you. Scroll up and read what i said in post 40

^^can we not equally say that you are of your a product environment? I have seen in an uncountable times people switching over faith and belief.



NO! i did some reasoning and research then came to the conclusion that no god exists. After that i learnt the word for someone like me was called an atheist.

Your conclusion was based on what? Can you present those parameters here so that we can examine them? I just think we are all floating in thesame ocean. . . . Believing without concrete proof.



What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence


Christopher Hitchens





but rhino sees the above quote as otherway i.e what can be dismissed without evidence can also be asserterd without evidence