Muslims With Christians - Religion - Nairaland
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The Only Thing Wrong With Christians / Our Camp was loaded with Christians, but only 2 will not deny Jesus (Ex-Boko) (2) (3) (4)
| Muslims With Christians by Olyboy16(m): 1:04am On Nov 26, 2013 |
***what hapens in xtianity and islam 2 Likes |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Adeoba10(m): 2:03am On Nov 26, 2013 |
As a muslim, we shld expect all diz critics. Buh surely ALLAH is with does who have patience 1 Like |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Techwriter: 3:24am On Nov 26, 2013 |
Jesus said that "wisdom is justified by her children" in other words, it doesn't matter what you believe let's see the result of what it has produced in society. Terrorism, poverty, countries with no inventions, women suppression etc. That's Islam summarized 2 Likes |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by pinkguy(m): 4:30am On Nov 26, 2013 |
Like the word of jesus he say by their deed we shall know them .action speak louder than words and pls stop ur link of bible with ur religion or christain God with ur allah, muhammad father name was abduallah which mean servant of allah but we all knew he spend all his life as pagan idol worshiper, this also show the word allah was use first by arab pagan before muhammad adopt its has his name of muslim God @do pls ans what is differ between muhammad allah and abduallah allah that his father was servant too N pls dont forget that jesus left 6oo years before muhammad was born @ :Dsmile;( i think he copy some part of bible no wonder the is no complet story of individual in u quran N haddit that why muslim people buy bible to understand their religion :'''''' peace''''''' |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Olyboy16(m): 10:44am On Nov 26, 2013 |
Techwriter: Jesus said that "wisdom is justified by her children" in other words, it doesn't matter what you believe let's see the result of what it has produced in society. Terrorism, poverty, countries with no inventions, women suppression etc. That's Islam summarizedyou see..The horrible truth is that, numerically and statistically speaking, Christian Civilization is the bloodiest and most violent of all civilizations in all of history, and is responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths. Even so, Muslims will never associate this violence and blood bath with the teachings of Jesus (peace be on him) never! And wat next would u christians do? U simply assume everyfin about islam is war nd terrorism wich has been detailed not to be true.. Instances- Saint Augustine’s cognite intrare (“lead them in”—i.e. “force them to convert”). In fact the Qur’an says the exact opposite: There is no compulsion in religion ( 2:256 ), islam doesnt in anyway support forcing nd killing people to convert NO!! . Augustine’s frightening idea that all must be compelled to “conform” to the “true Christian faith” has unleashed centuries of unparalleled bloodshed. Indeed, Christians have suffered more under the rule of Christian civilization than under pre- Christian Roman rule or any other rule in history. Another instance- Millions were tortured and slaughtered in the name of Christianity during the periods of the Arian, Donatist and Albigensian heresies.. Another instance- "The Crusades" The European armies were saying, as they slaughtered both Christian and Muslim Arabs: “Kill them all, God will know his own.” imagine that brutality.. Another instance- "The 20 th century's Western Civilization took warfare to new extremes" A conservative estimate puts the total number of brutal deaths in the 20th century at more than 250 million. Of these, Muslims are responsible for less than 10 million deaths. Christians account for more than 200 million of these! The greatest death totals come from World War I (about 20 million, at least 90 % of which were inflicted by “Christians”) and World War II ( 90 million, at least 50% of which were inflicted by “Christians,” the majority of the rest occurring in the Far East). Given this grim history, it appears that we must all come to grips with the fact that Islamic civilization has actually been incomparably less brutal dan xtian civilization so shall we say xtians ar brutal killers nd terrorists too?. and come to think of it, has any sane,real islamic country or organisation ever supported terrorism? NO! Is the answer..the concept of jihad and the nature of most muslims(who are hypocrites and people of little knowledge) has been the major cause of this big stain call "terrorism" on islam. As of fact, osama bin laden, the renowned terrorists leader of al-queeda was deported and reject from saudi, his own motherland!! when he was noted to be in act of terrorism..sadam hussein was never supported during his terrorist regime by any pious islamic country or organisation infact, no muslim made any plea to the U.S for him not to be killed on d day of sallah even when it was allowed...boko haram has been condemned by major nigerian islamic organisations to every limit, as of recently terrorist muslims are attacking pious muslims who speak against anti-terrorism http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/cairs-islamophobia-report-attacks-anti-terrorist-muslims/ i clearly and proudly state that, there is no point or verse in the quran that states that "islam supports terrorism" in any way or manner. If you find anyone engaging in the act of terrorism in the name of islam, he or she is neither a muslim nor fighting in the plight of almighty Allah(S.W) . Did the Holocaust of over 6 million Jews occur out of the background of a Muslim Civilization? NO! it was based on the grounds of christianity and christian soldiers. Another instance- "1992-1995 Bosnia" The genocide of over 300,000 Muslims and systematic rape of over 100,000 Muslim women by Christians ..and still, muslims do not stick these acts to xtians as a whole, so y do xtians keep do so to muslims..there wil always b a black sheep in a herd of whites there are more instances of christian brutality incase u need more proof 1 Like |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Olyboy16(m): 11:08am On Nov 26, 2013 |
pinkguy: Like the word of jesus he say by their deed we shall know them .action speak louder than words and pls stop ur link of bible with ur religion or christain God with ur allah, muhammad father name was abduallah which mean servant of allah but we all knew he spend all his life as pagan idol worshiper, this also show the word allah was use first by arab pagan before muhammad adopt its has his name of muslim God @do pls ans what is differ between muhammad allah and abduallah allah that his father was servant too N pls dont forget that jesus left 6oo years before muhammad was born @ :Dsmile;( i think he copy some part of bible no wonder the is no complet story of individual in u quran N haddit that why muslim people buy bible to understand their religion :'''''' peace''''''' |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Olyboy16(m): 11:32am On Nov 26, 2013 |
pinkguy: Like the word of jesus he say by their deed we shall know them .action speak louder than words and pls stop ur link of bible with ur religion or christain God with ur allah, muhammad father name was abduallah which mean servant of allah but we all knew he spend all his life as pagan idol worshiper, this also show the word allah was use first by arab pagan before muhammad adopt its has his name of muslim God @do pls ans what is differ between muhammad allah and abduallah allah that his father was servant too N pls dont forget that jesus left 6oo years before muhammad was born @ :Dsmile;( i think he copy some part of bible no wonder the is no complet story of individual in u quran N haddit that why muslim people buy bible to understand their religion :'''''' peace''''''' you see the problem with most christian critics is that they know little or nothing about islam...prophet mohammed(S.W) could neither read nor write!! So pls..he dint copy the bible in any manner... Secondly, you said the name allah originated from early pagan arabs, yes its true... but the name allah means "the most high God" in arabian more lyk using "orisa oke" for God when its used for other minor dieties in yoruba, there is no point in the critic u made . And of wich, allah wich is more appropriate to God's magnificience and also to sync into the untranslated quran.. And also for clarity in the quran has been stated at the beginning(quran 1 to 1 : 4) "in the name of Allâh, the most beneficient, the most merciful. All praises and thanks be to allah, the lord of mankind, jinns and all that exists. the most beneficient, the most merciful. The only owner (and only ruling judge ) of the day of recompense(i,e the day of resurrection)" so we worship only the most highest God! Nt an idol!! ...but hold on, do you think it is the good names you call "God" that justifies his preference to you? Do u think he doesnot know you refer to him even if you call him in chinese or french? GOD sees the mind of your prayers and not your words...also, prophet mohammed(S.A.W) did not adopt the name "allah" as critics claim, he simply chose what he deems best to quantify God's name... |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Emusan(m): 12:53pm On Nov 26, 2013 |
You really miss road try to copy your work and repost it in Islam section.....because the write up is meant for Muslims not Christains.....then if you think is meant for Christians kindly change the heading to "Why Christians should stop argue with Muslim" Olyboy16: ***this post does not in any way mean the poster has any negativity towards christians in any manner. It is just an expression of the poster's thoughts in mind of the recent cancellation of islam in angola and the hot argues goin on..if this post annoys you, simply stop reading and ignore***. You don't have nagetive mind towards Christians yet it shows in your write up that you do "facts about islam and christianity" On what did you base thess your facts? We muslims and christians worship the same almighty allah(S.W)(or God-english) Clap for yourself, first Muslim I will ever see to claim Christian and Islam serve the same God. What of Jew, are you serving the same God too? No wonder the stories in the Bible is far differ from the one in the Quran. but the only thing dat makes we muslims different is the fact that we dont think we cant pray to God directly without calling jesus and we dont thank or praise anyother God or prophet or spirit except almighty allah (S.W) wu created the jinns, prophets(including jesus nd his miracles nd his death nd his destiny), the angels and everything that has a name or not!! Since they are serving the same God try and shout Halleluyah in musque afterall it has nothing to do with the name of Jesus. So who is praising another god instead of the God Almighty? So if christians say they are the best pls... Error!!! no Christian will ever tell you this, is your conscience judging you? They will only say accept the only one who has come to save you and I from sin and will still come back to judge you and I for those who failed to believe He has come. dont argue..infact, its nt appropriate of a pious muslim to argue wif christians who dont even acknowledge or knw a book that contains only the words of almighty God!!! Alone and prefer to read an hadith(bible) [size=14pt]which consists of words from mortal men nd which were meant to serve as a GUARDIAN (nd a reminder of allah(S.W)'s existence, oneness nd power ever b4 their generations were born) not a book of salvation, divine uniqueness and supreme ordersity as they claim.[/size] Yet you claim you don't have a negative mind! The incosistence in the statement above is this; you claim Quran is a word of God alone...on what did Allah write the book before He sent it to Muhammad? your answer will be No, but He recite it. Now simple question, How was Moses received the Torah from Allah & the Gospel of Jesus(even though He didn't write any)? Again you said Mortal men.....and not a book of salvation......is Muhammad and Angel?......now tell what is salvation and how the past generations obtain salvation? purely nd truely christian of high knowledge know this truth they only seem to hide it from others so as to keep the integrity of their churches...  who is deceiving who? and as a mata of fact i believe in isa(A.S.W.S)(jesus) as a prophet, his gospel, his life and his teachings; nd even the bible for God has ordained us to get as much knowledge as we can and believe in the holy books.. Another excuse, you believe His gospel but you reject Him when He said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life know one get to the Father except by me" I guess they added that verse right? You also believe in His gospel, do you know the meaning of Gospel? No! it simply means GOOD NEWS, so what it is the good news you believe about Jesus? but i dont believe another name is worthy of calling, praising or thanking except almighty Allah(S.W) for help, seeking refuge, thanking and guidiance and also i dont think any book or reference is or can be greater than the direct words and guidiance of God(Al-quran) himself!!!.. No name has been given under the sun that man can be save than the name of Jesus. Allah gave Moses the Torah is not also direct word from Allah? Those are the true and clear meaning of islam..completeness, absoluteness and PEACE for "righteous believers" (not terrorists nd hypocrites) .. I like them all but the book itself didn't potray all. Now the only spot on islam seems to be the 'sects' nd terrorists who claim to be muslims... It's real pity on them and they are embarrasment to Islam, infact the unbelievers now preached LOVE than all believers. pls nd pls these people only saw the jihad wich is meant solely for holy wars and fights IN THE COURSE OF ALLAH(S.W) and took it as a vulnerability.. By d phrase "IN THE COURSE OF ALLAH(S.W)" i mean fights and wars with proper, righteous and Godly reasons, reasons that will sound sane even to christian.. Why war in the first place when the whole world need peace? these sects nd terrorists mostly dont av these geniuine reasons.. Quran says they should kill unbelievers anywhere they find them, I think that's the reason. they only fight and kill for thier own selfish and evil reasons while hiding under the cloak of the words islam and muslims.... No they don't but has been read in the Holy book, though it might not be to this extent. i dont blame christians most times because they dont knw wat the jihad means or how it works so they mostly think these sects are performing holy jihad..NO! is the answer..believing in the oneness of allah and wearing shorter trousers(the reason 4 dis wil b made known to non-muslims on the day of judgement) does not signify or support terrorism...i rest my case You have tried but try to know how to inspire not how to castigate! Shalom! |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Olyboy16(m): 8:43pm On Nov 26, 2013 |
Emusan: You really miss road try to copy your work and repost it in Islam section.....because the write up is meant for Muslims not Christains.....then if you think is meant for Christians kindly change the heading to "Why Christians should stop argue with Muslim" agreed!! Emusan: can you please explain what you mean by "it shows in your write up"? Cos i've not criticised xtians in favour of muslims, i only stated our beliefs and facts. Emusan: that question is rhetorical and absurd. The basis of my facts are well establish statically in my post!! Emusan: again, the question is absurd...and 1 question is, what is the difference between christians and jews?...and i'm not a jew and so i cant speak against or in favour of them as i dont know much about their belief and ways. Emusan: you see..this a big blunder on the side of xtians! The quran does not contain stories or citations from men, it contains only the strict instructions and remind ers of God's oneness and magnificience. Emusan: again, God has instructed mankind his preffered ways and manners of praise and worship..for conformity of the islamic way to worship, father abraham kneeled with his face on the ground most times in prayer, he made this posture of prayer when he needed dire attention from Almighty God. David worshiped God and God alone, he danced to God alone, prayed to God alone, so also moses, so also abraham, so also jesus(whose parabolic words have been constantly misinterpreted to the favours of xtians), and job and all the prophets before them in the bible; so do you think the one God of then is not the same God of now and the same on the day of judgement? Surely, he neva changes... Emusan:point of correction! The above quote refers to your own beliefs and reasons, not every christian's! I have seen and heard christians telling people, "islam is bad! Christianity is the best religion and not islam", "christians are the best people in the world", and some even go to more extremes...this fact also wipes the claims of xtians asserting terrorism to islam! Not every xtian has the same good understanding of xtianity..so also not all claimed muslims understand the meaning and concept of islam and jihad(holy wars).. terrorists act on their own ignorance and selfish interests and not on the true plight of islam as a mata of fact..in history, xtians practiced jihad!!(although not called jihad), examples are ST AUGUSTINE'S "convert them all" holocaust that claimed the lives of millions...the african colonisations...rwanda 1994...the europian xtianity conquests....and many more..do u say now that these people ar acting according to jesus' teachings  .......... The taurat was first inscribed on a stone by God himself, but moses(A.S.W.S) broke it and had to rewrite it himself for days without food under God's instructions...so also was the quran revealed to prophet muhammed(S.A.W) and written down as its been revealed... ........ The quran encouraged holy wars against any who disturbs or kills muslims or deprives them of their rightful rights, but stated boldly that no muslim should force anybody to convert or believe... ......... "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life know one get to the Father except by me", you do realise this phrase has a lot of meanings and i would not go into this... What muslims ar try to make known to xtians is that, we ar not the ones terrorising the world, as a mata of fact, terrorists recently are attacking muslims who speak against dem...these terrorist ar best termed as "extremists", not muslims |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Emusan(m): 11:03pm On Nov 26, 2013 |
Olyboy16: You made this statements; but the only thing dat makes we muslims different is the fact that we dont think we cant pray to God directly without calling jesus and we dont thank or praise anyother God or prophet or spirit except almighty Allah (S.W) wu created the jinns, prophets(including jesus nd his miracles nd his death nd his destiny), the angels and everything that has a name or not!!it would've even been better not to talk than this scrap. again, the question is absurd...and 1 question is, what is the difference between christians and jews?...and i'm not a jew and so i cant speak against or in favour of them as i dont know much about their belief and ways. Wonderful, you don't know about Jew but your Quran says something about them. Use it as an assignment to gain more knowledge. you see..this a big blunder on the side of xtians! The quran does not contain stories or citations from men, it contains only the strict instructions and reminders of God's oneness and magnificience. Clap for yourself, What about the story of Noah, the suction of Egyptians in the red sea, Jonah in the belly of fish e.t.c? Are they true life stories or fiction which made it a story from men? Of which Quran also narrated these same stories but in another way totally different from the one in the Bible. Finally, the birth & death our Lord Jesus which has been prophecied many years before it happened was also different. Hmmmmm again, God has instructed mankind his preffered ways and manners of praise and worship..for conformity of the islamic way to worship, father abraham kneeled with his face on the ground most times in prayer, he made this posture of prayer when he needed dire attention from Almighty God. David worshiped God and God alone, he danced to God alone, prayed to God alone, so also moses, so also abraham, so also jesus(whose parabolic words have been constantly misinterpreted to the favours of xtians), and job and all the prophets before them in the bible; so do you think the one God of then is not the same God of now and the same on the day of judgement? Surely, he neva changes... You agreed Abraham kneeled down, Moses and others served God alone like Moses and others also shout hallelujah....since what they do is what you're still following and you believe Christian serve the same God, do you also forbid shouting hallelujah in the mosque? I will ask you again, who is serving another god apart from God Almighty? terrorists act on their own ignorance and selfish interests and not on the true plight of islam I can see a great conscience disturbing you. Did I ask you about terrorism? My simple question is while war? Since God help the Isrealite to conquer thier promise land. Did any prophet i.e Isaiah, Jeremiah, Job, Jonah, Jesus e.t.c preach any war? Why the same God who preached so much love through Jesus Christ now change by preaching Holy war. Thank God you admit that those past christian were acting according to their own knowledge not what the Bible really teach and none of them derived their inspiration from our Lord Jesus. so also jesus(whose parabolic words have been constantly misinterpreted to the favours of xtians), Lemme ship in this, if not that Muhammad lacks scriptures knowledge he wouldn't have composed his book and claimed it's being revealed by God. He said Jesus fulfilled what was written in Torah and prophets, the question I'm beg muslim to answer is this; what are those things written in Torah and prophet that Jesus fulfilled? Now you said Christian misinterpreted the words of Jesus, do you think what Jesus claim during His time was fabrication? The secret behind it beyond Muhammad himself sorry to say this as an illetrate it really shows in quran. The Birth, Death and Resurrection of Jesus was prophecied from Genesis to Malachi.....can such word be misinterpreted? Answer it yourself! The taurat was first inscribed on a stone by God himself, but moses(A.S.W.S) broke it and had to rewrite it himself for days without food under God's instructions...so also was the quran revealed to prophet muhammed(S.A.W) and written down as its been revealed... This shows that you lack historical background, taura or Torah was referring to "the First-Five book of the Bible" written by Moses. It's only the Ten commandments that was inscribed in a stone which is in Exodus. The whole book of Genesis was a revelations. While the other four books contian history as well as God's word. Who help Muhammad wrote them down, I thought you said he can't read nor write? I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life know one get to the Father except by me", you do realise this phrase has a lot of meanings and i would not go into this... Of course it will have different meaning to you but the statement is very. *Jesus is the only way to heaven in other to be with God *Jesus is the life everlasting *Jesus is the true Messiah the Son of God(God reincarnation) Shalom! |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by macof(m): 12:54am On Nov 27, 2013 |
The Islam God is different from the Judeo-Christian God Allah has been worshipped in Arabia as a pagan God for centuries before Mohammed was born. In pre-Islamic Arabia, They recognized 360 Gods and Hubal was the chief, head of the pantheon. Hubal in Arabian region is same as Naana-Suen in Mesopotamian region which is just next door All proof points that Abraham was born in Ur kasdim/Ur of Chaldean. Ur was a nation in the Mesopotamian ethnic region that was devoted to Naana. Both Naana and Hubal are lunar gods in control of the moon and are credited with the creation of earth and all mankind. Mohammed was born into a family devoted to Hubal, his grandfather used the Hubal oracle often. Hubal was also the patron God of Mecca and had his idol among the 360 idols in the kabba. The word "Allah" Al Ilah means The God and can be used to refer to any God in a sentence but it is mostly used to refer to the most high God much like "El" in Canaanite spirituality. None was higher than hubal in Arabian spirituality and his cults were very devoted to him hence the name Allah was attached to him. Mohammed's father bared the name Abdullah/Abdul-Allah meaning servant of Allah. We all know Mohamed's family were pagans and it's logical to assume that Allah refers to Hubal. Islam's use of a lunar calendar, the crescent symbol and many more points that their God is connected to the moon. Hubal is that God, the same greatest, most high God of Pre-Islamic Arabia. Hubal is that God, the same God of the moon, whose servants studied the moon as Muslims do for festivals. Mohamed was influenced by the Israelis who had successfully created a monotheistic religion and proclaimed their national God as God of all. Mohammed only did same by proclaiming his Countries God as the only God. I have no problem with Islam but I believe non-Arabs shouldn't be muslims, it is slavery and mental dependence. Mohammed did everything possible to expel the worship of all other Gods and modified the cults and worship of Hubal. Allah is the supreme God truly but he is an Arab pagan God, and I don't see why non-Arabs worship in the name and beliefs of Arabs. In Yoruba spirituality, the chief God and head of the pantheon is Obatala but with a twist as Eledumare is the real King of the universe but letting Obatala oversee the universe on his behalf. Obatala is the creator of mankind and is credited with many aspects of creation. Yorubas should worship their own God instead of An Arab God. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubal http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obatala http://oracc.museum.upenn.edu/amgg/http://listofdeities/nannasuen/propheticnews.net/content/view/5629/67/ www.answering-islam.org/Resources/Morey/allah.html I advise muslims to ask questions and research instead of living in ignorance and limited knowledge with pride. I know the Koran prefers faith and total submission without questions or outside knowledge but I say the Koran is wrong there, because there are things humans gain from asking questions and researching. person were dey ask question no dey miss road |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by harbiola1(m): 3:13pm On Nov 27, 2013 |
macof: Holy spirit, Spiritualist, spirit spirit, spirit... i nw knw something unique about this issue of spirit. macof:U're clueless about this issue of God. "Proclaim "Allah is one" macof: What did i tell u the other day? Tribalism Syndrome and u're here to confirm it. Thanks! macof: Modified? by fighting its worshippers and get it burnt to ashes. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_Mecca U knw who u're? macof:Stop making jest of urself bro. God is one in the East or west, Arabia or Yorubaland. The earlier u realised this, the better it is for ursoul. macof:Oh my God! u're even abusing the Divinity of Olodumare by saying one Obatala is the chief god. Do u read this before posting it? Obatala, Orunmila and others are nothing more than vulnerable mortal men which u idolize. don't ever use the word "God" for any of these ur idols again. macof: In ur mind! He cannot create a wool. macof:Which God, Olodumare? or idol Orunmila, Osun, Sango, Obatala? Ur soul is far gone. let me tell u something, You need serious Ruqya. macof:Idol according to wikipedia. macof: Idol according to wikipedia macof:Idols according to the site. Or what do u called mold objects? macof:lol, u're very funny. what do u expect here? macof:Mr. macof the player, answering-islam? u should ve included link from wikiislam. While u used wikipedia to dubunk ur falsehood, i'll use it to tell the truth u're running away from. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim - http://www.equip.org/articles/allah-does-not-belong-to-islam/ macof:Smh! macof: If one missed his way today because he did nt ask from a liar like u, he may get it tomorrow. bt if one asks from someone like you, he'll miss his way forever thinking he has know it. |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Emusan(m): 3:43pm On Nov 27, 2013 |
macof: This your statement really makes me SHM for you. You left the true light which is in Christ Jesus entered into a confuse state. You claim here that Obatala is the creator of mankind yet in one thread where a church to submit apology letter to Dawkins for rejecting evolution....you made it clear that evolution is REAL. Is this not a total confusion and wrong choice? Jesus loves you....it's never too late to make a U-turn Shalom! 1 Like |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by harbiola1(m): 4:00pm On Nov 27, 2013 |
Emusan: Brother, Jesus or God |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by macof(m): 4:32pm On Nov 27, 2013 |
harbiola1: 1. I am a faithful tribal who looks out for the best for my Ethnic nation and Africa It is unwise to start worshiping foreign gods and disregard the Gods of our land that we have as our own still practiced well by many faithful Yorubas. This would only bring downward movements and brainwash, imagine a fool saying he wants Yorubas to be Arabized like North Africans because his brain as been eaten up by Islam. 2. I knew you would bring this up as you know nothing about true paganism. Pagans do not like people coming to change their traditions and cultural essence. Mohammed's family has always been devoted to hubal aka Allah Like any faithful region Proclaiming ur family's God as Only one is wrong, it is sanity and a very selfish motion. I cannot proclaim Orunmila to be the only God, and anyone who even tries that would be rebuked. Mohammed was rebuked for trying to make his own God the only God due to his influence from the Jews and Christians who practiced monotheism. The Hubal cults fought against him as he attacked them like he did other Cults. Mohammed's acts were pure evil as he caused a war killing thousands. 3. The forces of Nature are the same everywhere whether yorubaland, Arabia or Europe but They all have different personifications. The greatest art of paganism is philosophy, The people of a community apply their understanding of the forces around them to attach certain personified characters. Lightening is everywhere but the name of Sango is not everywhere, not even everywhere in yorubaland; In Ife Sango is best known as Aramfe, before the 13th century Jakuta was wat is now called Sango in many parts of yorubaland. In Germany Sango is known as Thor In igboland Sango is known as Amadioha. So don't think Gods are restricted to a particular region. Allah is everywhere but Yorubas don't know him as Allah. The ancient Arabs and ancient Yoruba didn't have the same philosophy of the forces attributed to the personality of Allah However We see that the Mesopotamians shared similar understanding of the force. Allah is wat is known as Naana in Ancient Mesopotamia 4. Obatala is Chief Orisha(firstborns of God) in English means God or deity. Obatala is the eldest child of Eledumare, his representative in major matters. Obatala is creator of human bodies and credited with the first phase of Universal creation. Obatala is a God and not a Man, A God like Allah, Yahweh, Orunmila, Odin and many others The Gods are nature forces that sustain the universe. The gods all have their duties in the universe, with different personification as understood by native dwellers. 5. Obatala is considered the greatest Orisha by the Yorubas, So it's not in my mind but wat Olodumare as given to the Universe. 6. Olodumare is the Supreme, the father of all Orisha. He is much like Uranus who is far from Humans and has his Children to act as mediators between his Glory and Humans. Every Nation of the ancient Yoruba region was devoted to one Orisha with the recognition of the rest, Ekiti is devoted to Orunmila, Ondo is devoted to Ogun, Ijesha is devoted to Osun, Oyo is devoted to Sango and many more.... The devotion to these Orisha make it possible to acquire favor from their controlling forces as Olodumare has deemed it. Devotion to certain Orisha is also though family line, location and profession Blacksmiths, Warriors and Hunters are devoted to Ogun Fishermen, Those living close to the ocean are devoted to Olokun Farmers are devoted to Oko Those living either close to mountains or on mountains are devoted to Oke |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by macof(m): 5:15pm On Nov 27, 2013 |
Emusan: Actually the true light of the world is Obatala, and I mean this very literally Yes I support Evolution,.because I have studied the theory and studied my environment and Evolution is very logical. My spirituality doesn't stop us from thinking and using logic. It doesn't stop us from learning from other people. Yoruba spirituality doesn't directly talk about Evolution but that doesn't mean evolution is not real You see we humans should learn from each other, Christians don't have all the answers, Islam doesn't have all the answer neither does Ifa Orisha. No pagan would tell u he knows all, or his God's Oracle has reviled all to him. Yorubas always say something like "Ifa is an unending bowl of knowledge, it takes more than one lifetime to fully understand the universe" Do u know why u are alive? I mean why u came to earth? Wat ur destiny is? Yorubas know this for themselves through Ifa, but Ifa would not do our Job for us. I want to develop my soul and go back to Eledumare fulfilled knowing that I won't have to come back to this horrible world. All the lessons I am to learn in this life would be forever imprinted on my soul. And I can't learn properly by dwelling on one source, I am pagan but I learn from Islam, Atheism, Science and many other forms of mental and spiritual inclination. So I am not confused to believe in Evolution, I have looked into it and I have seen it's logic. I am not a puppet of Science, I don't even subscribe to Darwin's exact theory of evolution I have mine. I have gone deep in christianity I know a lot of things ur early church fathers have hidden from you. I can't return to christianity NEVER! many of you Christians believe only you know the right way, only you are holy and meant for heaven. I don't think like that And I don't believe Jesus is anything more than a prophet who taught love and peace. 1 Like |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Emusan(m): 6:44pm On Nov 27, 2013 |
macof: Ok Yes I support Evolution,.because I have studied the theory and studied my environment and Evolution is very logical. The reason I referred you to that thread is believing evolution is real I.e human evolved from ape-like creature without any purpose and went ahead to say Obatala is the creator of mankind is illogical. My spirituality doesn't stop us from thinking and using logic. It doesn't stop us from learning from other people Even Bible advised us to ask for wisdom, meaning God doesn't want us to die in ignorance. I love science more than many Athiest on this forum yet I'm still a christian....do you know why? because I have found God beyond written and logic through Jesus Christ. I usually say if not because God manifests Himself to me today I will be one of those attacking any religion too. You see we humans should learn from each other, Christians don't have all the answers, Islam doesn't have all the answer neither does Ifa Orisha. 100% agree with you but the word of the creator Himself has done a lot about it. Yorubas always say something like "Ifa is an unending bowl of knowledge, it takes more than one lifetime to fully understand the universe" Yeah! But my question is since Eledumare also interact with His creations especially man, why do we carry out unending research by instrument find Him? Why can't we just say ok we only want to know much about our universe but He exists? Yet when the find out that He exists they deny Him being God...ROM 1:18-20 Do u know why u are alive? I mean why u came to earth? Wat ur destiny is? Absolutely yes! Yorubas know this for themselves through Ifa, but Ifa would not do our Job for us. Likewise in Christendom I want to develop my soul and go back to Eledumare fulfilled knowing that I won't have to come back to this horrible world. Wonderful, likewise me too. But to you what can you say about EViL i mean its origin? And do you mean some people will still come back here after their death and on what point/criteral will they come back? All the lessons I am to learn in this life would be forever imprinted on my soul. I do the samething but just to have clue not to believe on the because I have found the true God. So I am not confused to believe in Evolution, I have looked into it and I have seen it's logic. I am not a puppet of Science, I don't even subscribe to Darwin's exact theory of evolution I have mine. That is good I don't need to discard your notion on this. I have gone deep in christianity I know a lot of things ur early church fathers have hidden from you. I can't return to christianity NEVER! If you know me I will say you won't have said this but not withstanding I'm a type who doesn't live a live base on them say them say if not I would've become like you but I took my time and asked myself, am I not being decieved? But I seek God PERSONALLY and God revealed Himself to me. many of you Christians believe only you know the right way, only you are holy and meant for heaven. Actually you're right to some extent. I will give my reason below. I don't think like that One thing is this, Jesus said those who believe in Him out of their belly will a river of life flows out(which this signifies the Holyspirit). Now if I have the evidence of Holyspirit today, it means Jesus word is always true. so I believe this is one of the things many have seen to made them claim that your statement above. Infact I was inspired by your post for the first time and I appreciate that. Kudos! You can do this little exercise tonight, try to be alone around 10-12am when know one will disturb you and begin to reason many way you've sinned against God with a humble heart then ask for forginess in Jesus name after then ask God to fill you with His Holyspirit and see what will happen. Remember you must pour out your mind in a humble way by realising that you're a sinner. |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by macof(m): 9:18pm On Nov 27, 2013 |
Emusan: 1. Obatala is not a being of organic structures, he is the Yoruba personification of light(literally), morality, purity and by default the owner of consciousness. As Obatala moulds humans out of clay from Earth materials created by Oduduwa, Humans are initially not perfect due to Obatala's drunken state and he continues to try until he gets to this level. In my opinion evolution is still on and Obatala still forms. Humans were different 4000 yrs ago, we were not ape-like but have certainly evolved mentally, socially, and physically. Biologically is a different case when talking about time less than 8000yrs Even the earths cosmology and eco-system is changing. 2. Lol you found God through Jesus Christ? You don't need any man to find God, your consciousness(Ori) is ur own God here on earth. It is through Ori that u gain enlightenment and understand the concept of God. Lemme ask u about ur Bible figures Did Abraham find Yahweh through Jesus? Did Moses find Yahweh through Jesus? Did David find God through Jesus? All these men used their consciousness 3. The Word(not literally) of God is the consciousness I speak of. No written book can tell u wat ur life is or wat ur purpose in life is. It's only ur consciousness 4. Eledumare interacts with all humans through the Consciousness he has given us. But we must first grow in consciousness to gain that enlightened level in the understanding of God But one life time is not enough and no one achieves perfect understanding of God 5. I disagree, how have u known ur purpose through christianity? How has ur destiny been reviled to u? By the holy spirit? Or by consciousness? Do you use Oracles? 6. Evil is the conception of men, an interpretation of wat personal consciousness doesn't subscribe to due to societal and personal ideas. killing is Evil as u condemn Hitler but do u condemn David for all the people he killed or Moses for all the wrongs he did against humanity, Do u condemn Mohammed for all the people who lost their lives for the attacks against Arab (and neighbors) pagans?? 7. You deceive urself here, you learn from them but don't believe them because you have found the true God. And wat have they found? False God? If you have resolved that wat u are told in the Bible and churches is complete and you don't believe any other thing outside the Bible, then you are not truly learning anything and probably don't know anything about them. 8. That is to say you used your consciousness to seek him but I see delusion because If you say God has revealed himself to you and many Christians because they worship Jesus. Then you indirectly saying non-Christian don't know God. Many Muslim say God has revealed himself to them as the true God which the Koran has stated. Now are this people lying? You are born into a Christan family, devote urself to the Christian doctrine but then u begin to doubt and then pray for God to show himself to you personally, you pray the Christian way and upon ur doubt you never learn from outside sources, after prayers you resolve that God has shown himself to you the same way you knew him before ur doubts began. This here is delusion, the brain settles on the only ground it knows, which was the very same as before doubt. If you want to know God learn wat other people have to say about him and think. Learn more of wat u stand with, learn the history, learn all that had influenced it 9. Ok. But address my query on the relationship God had with people who didn't know Jesus and have the holy spirit 10. You are all forcing in the Christian dctrin, Saying I should show faith in christianity by pouring out my mind to it. By praying in the name of Jesus asking for the holy spirt and pouring out my mind is already belonging to the thought that Jesus and the holy spirit are the best/only way. |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Yooguyz: 10:59pm On Nov 27, 2013 |
These guys have a serious problem, they ban us for posting our topics in their section, but they don't have a problem coming here to open their dirty mouth to spew rubbish. @op u miss road? Moderator come commot this thread! |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by harbiola1(m): 12:05am On Nov 28, 2013 |
macof: I really want to know an answer to this from christianity perspective. |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by harbiola1(m): 12:57am On Nov 28, 2013 |
Yooguyz: @OP, i just noticed ur write up and i think it's somewhat harsh. it's unfair to start a post like that when no one has attacked ur religion on that basis. @Yooguyz? U nw know how it feels? i used to thought all the followers of prince of peace are angels with the way the criticize all the Muslims for bad things done by some unfortunate beings. Every trees have its own bad fruits, nt because the trees are bad bt the fruits are mere victim of vectors. Even our traditionalists are nt excluded, so no one has a say here. this's like a mixture of fart and salt in the mouth, u can't swallow the fart odour and can't afford to throw up the salt. Try and practice ur religion in the best way that'll entice others. Don't let them commot am e, na God's name i take beg u. the thing is just getting interesting. |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by tddavid: 2:21am On Nov 28, 2013 |
It's said that, arguments are exchange of ignorance, conversations are exchange of knowledge. (I didn't mean it any -ve way pls) One thing always keeps me awake most times: most of us (Christains & Muslims and other religions/lifestyles that believe in God and that God exists) never know this God we claim to worship. When we argue, and give different instances and convictions about how or why muslims or christains are better than each other and other negetive (mostly negatives. Maybe always -ves), what purpose do we have in our minds? What will be the end result of our arguments and convictions? Although, I do not go against these talks (besides, it's always interesting when we (humans) discuss matters). But what is our end aim per-se? Are we trying to convert the Chritains to Islam or vice versa? Many give logical instances that make their claims and everything.. right; and very convincing, too. But as we all are, (plus me) do we really know this God we call on to daily? Can you talk to God and He will give you an answer? Can you speak to God directly to recive answered prayers from God "the most High God"  What we need is not just mere Bible or Quoran knowledge, we need to strive for the true knowledge of God Himself too. We need to learn how to build bridge of relaionship with our maker Gos Almighty, in so doing, will we have the true light of God in us. And we'll be able to know which way is the true way - if we ask Him to tell or show or reveal the true way to heaven to us. I guarantee you, He will tell you! I didn't go against scriptural knowledge, in fact it's one of the most important but, we need more than just scriptural knowledge, we need to be able to talk to God directly (I didn't mean Jesus now, or Prophet Mohammed (S W)) I did mean talking to God Himself now to show us the way, and lets put aside all history facts and fads and lay hold of Gods light himself the creator of all history and historians. By this revelation of God Himself showing us, we will see everything in a new light (including ourselves) and all other things that seem dark and mysterious to us. May "God Almighy" Bless Us All As We Take On This Task to Ask Him Questions - even the light to the true way to Heaven so we could follow suit. |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Emusan(m): 2:54pm On Nov 28, 2013 |
macof: The very first point you need to know here is how God begins to walk with man after the FALLING of the first man-Adam. Before God called Abraham God Himself has this testimony about him(Abraham) "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, [size=14]and they shall keep the way of the Lord....,[/size] Gen 18:19 Why God call somebody like Noah, Abraham? The answer is, is to fulfilled the promise He made when He curse Devil Gen 3:15. Both Noah, Abraham, Moses, David were chosen for the promise to be fulfuilled and Moses, David, and past prophets were both foresee the coming of Jesus, His birth, death & resurrection. They all saw the glory of Jesus before they died. That's why when Jesus died He has to go and preached to those who have died in disobedient starting from the flood of Noah till date for those who didn't know Him 1 Peter 2:18-19 Jesus Himself confirmed that before Abraham exists He Has been in existence. 5. I disagree, how have u known ur purpose through christianity? How has ur destiny been reviled to u? By the holy spirit? Or by consciousness? Do you use Oracles? Through prayer to God and with the help of the Holy spirit since I have known Him. 7. You deceive urself here, you learn from them but don't believe them because you have found the true God. And wat have they found? False God? Is believing and learning the same? The question should be what did I learn? 8. That is to say you used your consciousness to seek him but I see delusion because If you say God has revealed himself to you and many Christians because they worship Jesus. Then you indirectly saying non-Christian don't know God. What I want to make clearer to you for bring out this is that, if Jesus promised all those who believed in Him something and you find out the thing is true...then you should that whatever He says it will surely come to pass. As for muslim, none of them can claim they have ever feel the presence of God, see vision, or God spoke to them. They only believe Quran is the word of God that you need to follow. You may say I'm deluded but it's a testimony of myself "God has visited me personally twice in my room" that's I said seek God personally! Shalom! |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by Mintayo(m): 5:23pm On Nov 28, 2013 |
Op,pls note: 1. We are not serving the same God. 2. Just like your topic,please leave the Bible out,i know you guys can't do without the Bible,please leave the Bible alone,is the quran or hadits not enough? |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by tddavid: 8:54pm On Nov 28, 2013 |
Tayo, can I say something 2u? pls don't take it personal. I believe d root cause of arguments and conflicts and strifes between Christains & Muslims is d fight that Christains worship Jesus & dat it is wrong that there is only one God & Him only should we all worship! ... I don't want to give u reasons or "whys" why. But one thing I want u to do anytime you are alone. I believe you pray to God? Ok. Since u pray to God (I am not talking about Jesus or Holy spirit or any of the prophets). Have you ever hear Him talk to you before? If not, you can ask Him (God) to open your spiritual ears so you can hear whenever He speaks. If yes, (that u hear God speak to you & u recognises His voice, for there are 3 kinds of voices: Gods voice, ur spirit mans voice and d voice of satan, so you must recognise His voice when He speaks) So, ask Him, say, "God can You tell me, show me or reveal to me the right way to make it to heaven? (aljana)" I mean, when you're praying to God on ur praying mat. Ask Him once, twice, thrice, fourth time & maybe fifth time even more times till you hear Him tell you or give you an answer. Whenever the answer comes u will know, He might tell you through your dream at night or through a vision. One way or another He'll show or tell or reveal to you your very answer. Once the answer is given to u, you now have one power at your disposal that determines a lot of things. Your power of choice or decision making. God will always respect that power of man always. There is another part to this practical. You can choose not to practice what I have suggested to you, u can decide to ignore it and keep basing your facts and arguments on histories, facts or even the Koran. Don't hear me wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with these, but if you claim to know God you should be able to interact with Him. I can assure you all your bogging questions will be readily answered by the God Whom u serve. Pls, I am not trying to convince you, neither am I trying to turn you away from your faith, but I want you to experience the voice of God. If u have heared Him speak before, you will always want to hear Him again and again. Another thing. You can also choose to be lazy. You can choose not to pray, it's your choice. My point however is, either you are a Muslim or a Christain or an unbeliver, if you believe God exists and you believe in Him (i.e. God, not Jesus or Holy Spirit, leave them out of the picture), you have what is called FULL access to Him through one means only. Prayer. You can pray in any fashion you deam fit, so far u pray with your spirit, with a strong desire to want to know the truth about which way is the way to heaven or any other question bothering ur mind. You will be able to narrate your experince with God not (Jesus or the prophets) even if you do not have a pinch of a Koran or Bible verse in your brain. I greatly hope u take this important step. PS. Kindly let me know if u got any answer 4m God. Cheers! |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by macof(m): 11:12pm On Nov 28, 2013 |
tddavid: Tayo, can I say something 2u? pls don't take it personal. 1. There are many Gods and through them we worship the supreme God 2. Anyone who tells u he has heard God's voice is a liar and fraud...run away from him 3. There's no right or wrong way to make heaven, all roads lead to the same place. But I choose the path of my fathers. I ain't to Jesus servant or Arab slave. 4. Lol like he appeared to Jacob in a dream We aren't sure which God Jacob dreamed of anyway 5. God has no voice 6. I know God exist yet I am neither Muslim or Christian. Ur point is flawed 7. Maybe one means only to Hubal and Yahweh but Numerous means to Eledumare 8. No answer  |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by macof(m): 11:12pm On Nov 28, 2013 |
Emusan: 1. Mr. man this just proves that no one needs to believe Bible Jesus, because many who have lived without believing Jesus have been called by the same Bible God. Even Mohammed referred to Jesus as a prophetic Messiah to the Jews and nothing more.....by the way this is very wrong information that muslims pass around, the Jews reject Jesus(yeshua), he is a criminal according to Jewish laws. Didnt God reveal himself to Mohammed like he did Abraham, Moses and the rest? So if God could reveal himself to Mohammed(while only the holy spirit was revealed to Peter and Paul) and tell him that Jesus is his prophet and not his son(he has no son). wat do u think? is ur God or Holy spirit a confusionist? 2. So you mean u know wat u came to live for? Wat ur destiny is? Through holy spirit and prayer. Well I know many who have prayed with the holy spirit but don't know wat awaits them in the next 10yrs. 3. No they are different, But similar. You get information about something doesn't mean you learning from that thing. Wat u do is not learning, because u feel u know all through ur christianity so wat can u possibly learn from Islam or Buddhism etc 4. Same applies to Islam and Yoruba paganism, If Ifa promised Yorubas something and it actually manifests like dat, then you should know that wateva Ifa says would surely come to pass. 5. I know many imams in Lagos island who seen vision from Koran God on a daily basis. 6. The same way ur God has visited u personally is the same way my God has visited personally. Wat then makes Holy spirit so superior And Jesus the only way to God? When we who that don't use those get the raw, undiluted message from God through his gift to everyman, his given consciousness. |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by tddavid: 12:48pm On Nov 29, 2013 |
The truth cannot be broken! The truth can never die! No matter how many people oppose or reject it. No Man Can Get to The Kingdom of God Without Accepting Christ As His Personal Lord and Savior. Not all road lead to the kingdom of God, only through Christ. God has spoken to millions of people and He will continue to do so... It doesn't matter if you are a Christain, muslim or an unbielever, what matter is if you don't have Christ in your life genuinely, when you die or when Christ comes (rapture), you won't make it to heaven. You are told, you know now, that you must give your life to Christ now that you still have the opportunity. I pray you will understand in Jesus name. You know, sometimes, what brings people to God very close is problem or problems. Until you are going through a challenge or difficulty that goes beyond logic and normal human reasoning, that God will be the only option left for you, you will not understand. I pray that God will cause something that will happen tou that will make you run to Christ in Jesus name. Lets not argue. When the time comes, the truth will bring everything to the light. God Bless You!  |
| Re: Muslims With Christians by harbiola1(m): 5:07pm On Nov 29, 2013 |
macof:It doesn't matter whether they rejected him or not, he was still their messiah and some were saved through him. There's something in this topic which u don't knw despite being a former christian. macof:U don't need to say what u don't knw so that u don't err. B4 and during the time of Jesus, Father was the common word used by the jews to call God and called themselves (Metaphorical) son. They hardly call God names because it's blasphemous according to them and till now many jews would write G-d, or say Adonai or other words. that's why there is controversy over the name of God "Yahweh" and "Jehovah" because the correct pronounciation was lost. The only non-controvercial word is "Elah" derived from "El" which Jesus used on the cross. Jesus and His disciples did not witness the transition from the metaphorical concept of God the Father to the Literal and Substantive concept which was later adopted by Church fathers during their jorney to Trinity. And who told you that Muhammed(saw) did nt warned them? Don't say what you don't knw. macof: I don't think u knw Islam more than i do, or do u? When u say vision i knw what u mean, and i knw these people must be a big cleric according to u. Bt i'm 100％ sure that they don't knw Islam than its Prophet (saw). So what they are doing is wrong and God may punish them if they eventually die as they are. There's security in Islam and when i say Security i mean, how to protect urself to the fullest which Muhammed(saw) taught us and what they are doing is nt part of it. Peace... |
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