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Web Development Using ASP - Programming - Nairaland

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Web Development Using ASP by woleraymon: 2:20pm On Nov 30, 2005
Do we still have developers using ASP for Web development?
Re: Web Development Using ASP by Nobody: 2:40pm On Nov 30, 2005
Please leave ASP and use PHP, please Idey beg, i dey reli beg
Re: Web Development Using ASP by skima(m): 5:33am On Dec 02, 2005
i do ASP...
But uses PHP most of the time.
Re: Web Development Using ASP by modpluz(m): 3:51am On Dec 27, 2005
[B]aydada[/B], why u dey beg am to leave ASP.

Abeg my guy carry go with ASP joo!!!

ASP rules(i don't know of PHP)
Re: Web Development Using ASP by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 2:52am On Jan 08, 2006
i do asp.. been doing asp since 2000

I tried PHP and was reminded that i did not graduate with a first degree in computer science and was never a linux guru with an overgrown beared and smelly armpits

abeg.. pass the work dis side
Re: Web Development Using ASP by sbucareer(f): 9:47pm On Jan 09, 2006

I love php maybe it is because my first script language was php.  Like that was not enough, I did my final year project with php and mysql.  During my project I did a lot of research on script languages and contrast their strengths and weaknesses.  I came to realise that php was a descendent of CGI (Common Gateway Interface).

Unfortunately, php that I have programmed to love now became my dreaded nightmare in that the scripts are not modular.  It could be very dangerous to develop distributed application for critical systems.  As their composition do not allow modular pattern, lots of coupling and less cohesion.  If any part of the system is changed because of business change the whole system would severely be affected. 

Furthermore, php compiles at execution time and they are distributed in clear text so someone can copy the source code, alter the program and distributed sensitive code over the internet.  This means that the companies that develop high quality php scripts can go out of business because they cannot afford to take legal action against all offenders. It doesn’t mean that compiled software is immune to such practices; actually it is possible to reverse engineer any piece of software, but the argument here is that php has very serious market problems.

I really do not think that any particular tried to reverse engineer Windows. With PHP anyone has direct access to source code, which means that any slowpoke will be able to use your valuable source code.

However, Java has come of age competing with .NET in market place it is not surprising that with certification here and there for .NET and java, programmers are encourage to learn this tools and help pioneer and develop the next information system management.

I have been an evangelist for java development for years now especially J2EE and J2ME using the J2SE and using many design pattern with J2SE i.e. collection framework, JavaBeans and other well define framework in java.

Java provides a modular approach to modelling systems and with sufficient experience one can adapt a very powerful cohesion system that is not only fault tolerant but also robust and bug free.

I hear about systems and software development in Nigeria, Not that I put them down or anything but in this forum I have not had anyone speaks about Testing and debugging.  This is the vital part of software development. 

Software coder will come and go and get paid but companies will employ code maintenance guru to rigorously test and debug software.

Finally, I hope and seriously wish people in Nigeria should talk more of Java.  Java is secure, executing byte code within the user own JVM and close source distribution, in the sense of compiled classes it is difficult to reverse engineer.  You can even adopt the deployment options to access you code base at a different secured server.

3 Likes

Re: Web Development Using ASP by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 1:02am On Jan 10, 2006
Same problem i had with mySQL.. it is simply not relational.. you cannot visualize data in 3D like MSSQL. verything is in a flat structure in ms SQL which was my major problem with it. you cannot link 2-3 tables and view the results. you have to aggregate everything into one table.. sucks.. hope it has changed with recent versions.. almost died getting a form to pick data and post to a database then send email. I know it is easy now... after 1 week of frying my brain cells.

php is good.. and you had to mention CGI.. for me I believe technology is growing to a level where ordinary people can work with it and turn out really funky stuff. Xample... I have written commercial class applications in VB, I know windows API and can decipher device drivers without any knowledge of C++, UNIX, CORBA or the other high level technologies Thanks to Microsoft (though I am still pissed I lost 300GB plus of data becuase windows re-wrote my MFT while trying to fix it.)
Re: Web Development Using ASP by sbucareer(f): 2:41am On Jan 10, 2006

I don't think mysql or MSSQL and many other database was design with 3-D in mind.  These are relational DBMS. The best you can get out of then if you are very good is distributed databse.  By applying what we called global scheme, you could fragment other DBMS either Verticle fragmentation, Horizontal fragmentation, Mixed or derived fragmentation to produce a distributed databse application. 

Even then oracle database is the only DBMS that was developed with DDBMS (Distributed DataBase Management System) in nind, that is the 10g version.  Now oracle is talking about grid database ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/preprints/2002/14/2002-14.pdf that will revolutionise the databse industry.

Furthermore, if you are considering 3-D database the bad new is there isn't one.  But suits of services available to help design 3-D application.  Examples of services are:

1. OLAP (Online Analytical Processing)
2. MOLAP (Multidimensional OLAP)
3. ROLAP (Relational OLAP)

Online Analytical Processing or OLAP provides multidimensional, summarized views of business data and is used for reporting, analysis, modeling and planning for optimizing the business. SQL Server supports OLAP via Analysis Services. Analysis Services can be used to work with data warehouses or data marts designed for sophisticated enterprise intelligence systems. These systems process queries required to discover trends and analyze critical factors.

Finally, Nigeria has not reach the stage of using these service and application.  Here in the UK it is used for identifying fraud, i.e credit crads, banking functions i.e. who they give credit and loans etc.

It could also be used to project a business storage and historical database.  Basically historical data are data warehouse. 

A data warehouse is a database geared towards the business intelligence requirements of an organisation. The data warehouse integrates data from the various operational systems and is typically loaded from these systems at regular intervals. Data warehouses contain historical information that enables analysis of business performance over time.

To use msql and mssql for data warehouse or to process 3-D database are not possible.  Mind you data warehouse are non operational data, could be store a a MFT/FILE.


Reference
===================
1. http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/04/07/HNorgrid_1.html
2. http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/O/OLAP.html
3. http://searchsqlserver.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid87_gci882493,00.html
4.  http://www.auditmypc.com/acronym/ROLAP.asp

Re: Web Development Using ASP by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 10:10am On Jan 13, 2006
forgve my metaphors.. when i say 3-D i meant being able to turn sets of data into related parts so you can make meaning of it. i think it is part of a course in database design.

you have to be able to see data in relation to what each part means to the whole. (there i go again)


That is what i meant.. try doing it with mySQL not real 3-D/2-D Visualization
Re: Web Development Using ASP by africanboy(m): 11:37am On Jan 31, 2006
really i was pissed seeing some1 actually took time to clik on reply and spent some minutes typing a messaging asking some1 2 leave asp and migrate 2 php. i started with asp, still with asp and will be with asp 4 a long time. taking on asp.net also.

wanted to try php, but with its similarity to C language, i wasnt too encouraged. *i dont like case sensitive language and braces* still want 2 try it anyways. php has many folowers but asp seems 2 be a favourable 2 me.

someone tell d moderator to create a category for downloads of asp scripts.
Re: Web Development Using ASP by sbucareer(f): 2:48pm On Jan 31, 2006

I would like people to list links of banks that uses php,

Most of the Banks I know only use ASP/JSP, I wonder why?  Security issues maybe, cry cry

1. Alliance Leicester --- ASP
2. Nationwide  --- ASP
3. Barclays Bank --JSP (Java)
4. Abby National Bank  --- Servlet (java)
5. Woolwich Bank ---ASP
6. Halifax Bank ---ASP

etc. I have not seen any php for secure online Banking application.  You know why?  Banks do not consider open source application like php secure enough to handle ecommerce.  So php advocates make note of this. 

If you find any bank that uses php let me know I would start learning php as mad.  PHP has its place in application development.  Not that anything is wrong with php but because it is supported by open source community and php API writer may put a trapdoor in one of its API and access your critical business function, who do you sue?  Open source Community or who?

But if you have security breach in ASP you can sue Microsoft equally if same happens to Java you can sue James Gosling.  How about PHP?  cry  cry
Re: Web Development Using ASP by africanboy(m): 3:01pm On Jan 31, 2006
whether banks use ASP or PHP, i cant really say, but banks r nt d oly 1s who require secure apps. php supporters should support theri side of d argument by listing other "secure" sites dat use PHP
Re: Web Development Using ASP by sbucareer(f): 3:12pm On Jan 31, 2006

@africanboy can you support your argument
africanboy: but banks r nt d oly 1s who require secure apps
I am talking of critical secure application NOT like ebay.  Even ebay do not use php.  They use .COM (Component Object Model (COM) is Microsoft's object-oriented programming model that defines how objects interact within a single application or between applications)

Ebay uses a DLL technology (Dynamic Link Library) to package their .COM.  So please tell us any people/firm that uses PHP for secure critical application development?   
Re: Web Development Using ASP by joftech(m): 5:41am On Feb 01, 2006
I would like people to list links of banks that uses php...

Most of the Banks I know only use ASP/JSP, I wonder why? Security issues maybe... Cry Cry

1. Alliance Leicester --- ASP
2. Nationwide --- ASP
3. Barclays Bank --JSP (Java)
4. Abby National Bank --- Servlet (java)
5. Woolwich Bank ---ASP
6. Halifax Bank ---ASP

etc. I have not seen any php for secure online Banking application. You know why? Banks do not consider open source application like php secure enough to handle ecommerce. So php advocates make note of this.

If you find any bank that uses php let me know I would start learning php as mad. PHP has its place in application development. Not that anything is wrong with php but because it is supported by open source community and php API writer may put a trapdoor in one of its API and access your critical business function, who do you sue? Open source Community or who?

But if you have security breach in ASP you can sue Microsoft equally if same happens to Java you can sue James Gosling. How about PHP? Cry Cry

I can see you are one of those anti-GNU/open source campainer.

Am coming to...
Re: Web Development Using ASP by sbucareer(f): 1:39pm On Feb 01, 2006

Naah!!! @joftech, just that we need to understand the SWOT (Strengths/Weaknesses Opportunities/Threats) of GNU, particularly PHP.  I am an active advocate of GNU.  I use and administer Open Source Application.  Previously, all the companies I worked for do NOT use GNU for their secure/critical ecommerce especially when it comes to funds and management resource like SAP R/3.

Until one company takes the basic shell/kernel of PHP and maintain its integrity and effectiveness, many company am afraid would continue to look at PHP as a threat to support critical application.  Don't ask we why, I do NOT know.

Prof. Allan White, a speaker from Capital Investment Banking in one of my final year units at university 2002 said, "I would never consider Open Source Application for maintaining financial operation in my firm, because the public maintains it and would NEVER make a very good lawsuit"

I wondered why he said it back then, but I have come to reason with him that lawsuit is they way Western world controls legitimate business. 

When you decide to open a critical secure transactional web application you can use PHP, no problem.
Re: Web Development Using ASP by Seun(m): 1:47pm On Jul 07, 2006
Fortunately for us, lawsuits are not prevalent in the Nigerian business environment, so open source is ok.

However, I haven't heard about any company suing Microsoft for defects in ASP or MS-SQL. Have you?
Re: Web Development Using ASP by wilkanah(m): 2:45pm On Jul 07, 2006
no doubt open source is good, but i can't help but agree with some of sbucareers comments, particularly that the only way to learn to build software is to build it.

tis true sofware suits are uncommon in Nigeria and everyone can make a quick buck with minimal skillsets by deploying open source solutions (which i think is why everyone is looking to IT - the quick buck), but what happens when u need support?

i guess in the typical Nigerian spirit we can leave that for then and focus on the present but really, thats not the way it shld be.

i know many young guys that shout about open source tools and how u just click this and this and BAM!!! web systems ready and then u click that and BAM BAM!!! u have interfaces for 5 different companies now u only have to find people to sell ur solutions to,
While it impressive that u can find just about anything u want half done or complete and free too, i don't see any of these young ppl looking to support the open source community of trying to partake in any one open source projects (at least in the circles i move).

so we've moved from importing everything we use in naija to importing code?
where do y'll think the true power lies?
4get the cash 4 just a moment.
Re: Web Development Using ASP by Kobojunkie: 7:23pm On Jan 08, 2010
Seun:

Fortunately for us, lawsuits are not prevalent in the Nigerian business environment, so open source is ok.

And that happens to be one of the reasons why IT is not growing at the pace it ought to in Nigeria.

@Poster, ASP is still great! Just last year, I worked on adding custom modules to existing asp applications. Granted the additions were ASP.NET based and the companies had plans in place or were working on plans to move their ASP modules to ASP.NET but overall, I think ASP still has a place. The main reason given for not converting over to ASP.NET has been cost (cost of rebuilding entire applications almost and moving to new technology). Apart from that, there is not much else for remaining with ASP when most know ASP.NET offers them significantly more flexibility, functionality and scalability.
Re: Web Development Using ASP by logica(m): 8:18am On Jan 09, 2010
Seun:

Fortunately for us, lawsuits are not prevalent in the Nigerian business environment, so open source is ok.
Even though this comment is 3.5 years old, what do lawsuits have to do with Open Source?
Re: Web Development Using ASP by cdeveloper(m): 1:56pm On Jan 29, 2010
All programming languages on planet earth have its strength and weakness and to say that because php is open source and can easily be modified or even copied is not in any way a breach of what a secure language should be.The strength of php is in its flexibility and its modularity is left in the hand of the programmer to determine. Much as Javascript is flexible and you can bend it in whatever way you can so is php. Security is not defined by all the built-in functions that a programming language has but in the architecture of the software that the language is used to build.

In theory security should be incorporated into the design of a software ,but the question is how many software developing companies put this in to practice without extending the time limit set for building the application.Secondly software design and implementation plays a major role in determining how secure a software could be. In php we have exceptions objects we can use not only to handle errors that may occur but also track unwanted behaviours in the codes. A good scenario is what do we do when we expected an int in a variable but got a string?. The say that a drop of water makes the mighty ocean so also tiny oversight as this can escalate into something devastating.

For those that want to write legacy codes in php you will need the php code encoders to protect your intellectual property and distribute your code with licence , you could use ZendEncoder ,ironCube etc. This software encodes your source code.
Php has come a long way in it history and it has become the driving force behind major websites on the net.

For usage of php, i figured that even GTBank is running php for there website.

My take on language security is that it depends on how developers use the features that are made available in such languages
Re: Web Development Using ASP by agwaisrael(m): 7:49am On Feb 02, 2018
sbucareer:

I love php maybe it is because my first script language was php.  Like that was not enough, I did my final year project with php and mysql.  During my project I did a lot of research on script languages and contrast their strengths and weaknesses.  I came to realise that php was a descendent of CGI (Common Gateway Interface).

Unfortunately, php that I have programmed to love now became my dreaded nightmare in that the scripts are not modular.  It could be very dangerous to develop distributed application for critical systems.  As their composition do not allow modular pattern, lots of coupling and less cohesion.  If any part of the system is changed because of business change the whole system would severely be affected. 

Furthermore, php compiles at execution time and they are distributed in clear text so someone can copy the source code, alter the program and distributed sensitive code over the internet.  This means that the companies that develop high quality php scripts can go out of business because they cannot afford to take legal action against all offenders. It doesn’t mean that compiled software is immune to such practices; actually it is possible to reverse engineer any piece of software, but the argument here is that php has very serious market problems.

I really do not think that any particular tried to reverse engineer Windows. With PHP anyone has direct access to source code, which means that any slowpoke will be able to use your valuable source code.

However, Java has come of age competing with .NET in market place it is not surprising that with certification here and there for .NET and java, programmers are encourage to learn this tools and help pioneer and develop the next information system management.

I have been an evangelist for java development for years now especially J2EE and J2ME using the J2SE and using many design pattern with J2SE i.e. collection framework, JavaBeans and other well define framework in java.

Java provides a modular approach to modelling systems and with sufficient experience one can adapt a very powerful cohesion system that is not only fault tolerant but also robust and bug free.

I hear about systems and software development in Nigeria, Not that I put them down or anything but in this forum I have not had anyone speaks about Testing and debugging.  This is the vital part of software development. 

Software coder will come and go and get paid but companies will employ code maintenance guru to rigorously test and debug software.

Finally, I hope and seriously wish people in Nigeria should talk more of Java.  Java is secure, executing byte code within the user own JVM and close source distribution, in the sense of compiled classes it is difficult to reverse engineer.  You can even adopt the deployment options to access you code base at a different secured server.

I love you
Re: Web Development Using ASP by JigsSarma: 11:43am On Feb 02, 2018
Obviously.
Still many big company are completely depend on ASP.
Re: Web Development Using ASP by ibnquasale(m): 12:39am On Feb 03, 2018
sbucareer:

I would like people to list links of banks that uses php,

Most of the Banks I know only use ASP/JSP, I wonder why?  Security issues maybe, cry cry

1. Alliance Leicester --- ASP
2. Nationwide  --- ASP
3. Barclays Bank --JSP (Java)
4. Abby National Bank  --- Servlet (java)
5. Woolwich Bank ---ASP
6. Halifax Bank ---ASP

etc. I have not seen any php for secure online Banking application.  You know why?  Banks do not consider open source application like php secure enough to handle ecommerce.  So php advocates make note of this. 

If you find any bank that uses php let me know I would start learning php as mad.  PHP has its place in application development.  Not that anything is wrong with php but because it is supported by open source community and php API writer may put a trapdoor in one of its API and access your critical business function, who do you sue?  Open source Community or who?

But if you have security breach in ASP you can sue Microsoft equally if same happens to Java you can sue James Gosling.  How about PHP?  cry  cry


On the contrary, its not always about how secure a language is or not. Its simply about the ease of technology. Most of them make use of Microsoft technologies and even deploy same for their core banking apps. So its easy connecting ASP to other technology they are already using.

Also, in some cases, it will interest you to know that most of these decisions are made by the vendor or software developer and not the banks.

Some of them(the banks) will just tell you that "do this for us", and they don't even care which technology you use in getting it done
Re: Web Development Using ASP by eidesk(m): 7:59pm On Mar 10, 2018
Closed - Out of date

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