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Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 3:07pm On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:

The problem was, when it got to Africa, instead of our fathers to incorporate the teachings of Christ into our respective cultures and traditions, we abandon everything to accept the Western world/culture version of Christianity and way of life.

Aladura nko?
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by ITbomb(m): 3:10pm On Jul 30, 2017
onyenze123:
This is why I hate dogmas and doctrines.

"Love your God and love your neighbors as you love yourself"

what else do you need again to be a good person?

Na wa oh
This is the conclusion, my brother

1 Like

Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by ITbomb(m): 3:10pm On Jul 30, 2017
PastorAIO:


Aladura nko?
OYO lol
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Nobody: 3:15pm On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:

This is the conclusion, my brother

Thank you.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 3:57pm On Jul 30, 2017
ITbomb:

OYO lol

On Your Own?
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by In4matic: 8:04pm On Jul 30, 2017
An2elect2:
Paul because Paul was the instrument Christ used in reaching the Gentiles and the remnant of Jews who would all be saved by grace.

The Law was set aside on the cross. And the covenant of grace established and made effective from then to timeless eternity.


You Are totally wrong sir. The churches history has it that generality of the disciples spread into Europe, Asia and Africa spreading the word.
So It Wasnt Only Paul.


These Disciples also wrote their books but most were purged out of the bible, leaving majorly paulistic teachings that was agreeable to the council of Nicea.

THE LAW WAS NEVER SET ASIDE AT THE CROSS SIR. That was pauls teaching, adopted by the Roman Church who did not want to practice jewish laws.
Read your book of Leviticus & Deuteronomy, observe that most of the laws end with a caveat:

"these laws shall stand forever. I AM THE LORD"

Forever means what it is, FOREVER, & signed by the most high himself.. 'I AM'
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by In4matic: 8:33pm On Jul 30, 2017
If we can but step back from our embedded notions for a moment and read the bible again from begining,
we'll discover an about-face; a change in tempo when it comes to the epistles of paul.

A torrent of words appealling to intellect rather than the spirit.


Furthermore, it was clearly documented that the apostles were not confortable with his doctrines. He started the cut-and-join style rather than entirety of a message.


This is what led to differrent doctrinal interpretations to the word of God as seen today.


Anybody can now claim the 'spirit' revealed a new ordnance to him and VIOLA !..., A new denomination has been born.


In my opinion, if you take out the teachings of Paul, THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURE ALIGNS.

I think paul was just a preacher whose writings should be on the same pedestal with books written by prominent men of God Today.

That Bishop Oyedepo Or Pastor E. Adeboye wrote an insightful book doesn't make that book eligible to be added into scripture as the word of God.

1 Like

Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by In4matic: 8:36pm On Jul 30, 2017
[quote author=PastorAIO post=58978914]

I think what actually happened was that the gospel that Paul taught won out over all the other forms of christianity. Without a doubt there were other christians that contradicted Paul. Many of them included Jesus' actual followers and disciples.

For example, many see the Letter of James as making reference to the teachings of Paul and contradicting them.


2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3

22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror.

James1

You can say that James is attacking Paul's doctrine. Or alternatively you can say that James is attacking other people that have twisted Paul's doctrine to mean that you don't have to buttress Faith with Actions/Works.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Ken4Christ: 9:48pm On Jul 30, 2017
There is not a single conflict between Apostle Paul’s teachings and that of Jesus. Apostle Paul built on the foundation that Jesus laid. Apostle Paul said.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

In addition, he said,

Ephesians 2:20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.

Jesus set aside the Law and established grace. That was why he didn't condemn the woman caught in the very act of adultery.

The misinterpretation of Matthew 5:17 - 18 which reads

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

is what is bringing confusion in the body of Christ.

What Jesus said in the verses above simply means he did not come to end the Law in an unjust manner but put an end to it after the requirement of the law is met.

The law says that the soul that sins must die. It also said, cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree. Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for sins and was made a curse for the Jews and rescued them from the law.

Galatians 3:13 - 14.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through .

There is no way Jesus would have enforced the Law that brought a curse to the Jews.

Deuteronomy 28 spelt out the blessings and curses the Jews will receive if they keep or break the law respectively. But the Jews couldn't keep the law because of the weakness of their flesh. So, they came under a curse and Jesus first project was to get them out of that curse.

So, he began to introduce grace gradually even though it was met with stiff opposition. They accused him several times of healing on Sabbath days.

Apostle Paul was the only Apostle that understood the message of grace perfectly and that was what he was committed to preach. And he received the revelation from Jesus. What he wrote was not a personal opinion but an exposition of divine revelation.

It is even absurd to compare him with Jesus. It's just like comparing a car manufacturer to a motor mechanic.

Jesus is the embodiment of wisdom. Apostle Paul preached the truth but Jesus is the truth himself.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Ken4Christ: 9:55pm On Jul 30, 2017
Ken4Christ:
There is not a single conflict between Apostle Paul’s teachings and that of Jesus. Apostle Paul built on the foundation that Jesus laid. Apostle Paul said.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

In addition, he said,

Ephesians 2:20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.

Jesus set aside the Law and established grace. That was why he didn't condemn the woman caught in the very act of adultery.

The misinterpretation of Matthew 5:17 - 18 which reads

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

is what is bringing confusion in the body of Christ.

What Jesus said in the verses above simply means he did not come to end the Law in an unjust manner but put an end to it after the requirement of the law is met.

The law says that the soul that sins must die. It also said, cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree. Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for sins and was made a curse for the Jews and rescued them from the law.

Galatians 3:13 - 14.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through .

There is no way Jesus would have enforced the Law that brought a curse to the Jews.

Deuteronomy 28 spelt out the blessings and curses the Jews will receive if they keep or break the law respectively. But the Jews couldn't keep the law because of the weakness of their flesh. So, they came under a curse and Jesus first project was to get them out of that curse.

So, he began to introduce grace gradually even though it was met with stiff opposition. They accused him several times of healing on Sabbath days.

Apostle Paul was the only Apostle that understood the message of grace perfectly and that was what he was committed to preach. And he received the revelation from Jesus. What he wrote was not a personal opinion but an exposition of divine revelation.

It is even absurd to compare him with Jesus. It's just like comparing a car manufacturer to a motor mechanic.

Jesus is the embodiment of wisdom. Apostle Paul preached the truth but Jesus is the truth himself.



In addition, all the commandments are hinged on love. Jesus death and resurrection has made it possible to partake of the nature of God's love. The new life we have in Christ is the nature of God's love.

Romans 13:9-10.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Christians are not subject to the Law of Moses because of the love nature of God we have received.

Galatians 5:22-23.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such THERE IS NO LAW.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by An2elect2: 11:15pm On Jul 30, 2017
In4matic:


You Are totally wrong sir. The churches history has it that generality of the disciples spread into Europe, Asia and Africa spreading the word.
So It Wasnt Only Paul.
The question is which gospel was spread to the world. And which gospel should Christian's follow. And which gospel saves? smiley

But contrariwise, when they saw that the
gospel of the uncircumcision was
committed unto me, as the gospel of the
circumcision was unto Peter;

(For he that wrought effectually in Peter
to the apostleship of the circumcision, the
same was mighty in me toward the
Gentilessmiley
Galatians 2:7,8


There is only one gospel tho but there were two kinds of apostleship. Peter was to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles. Peter did not fully understand the gospel of grace until later in his ministration but all glory to God for he discerned from the beginning it was Christ at work in Paul.

Paul was confident that the gospel committed to him was the only gospel ), that which he got by revelation

I marvel that ye are so soon removed
from him that called you into the grace of
Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another;
but there be some
that trouble you, and would pervert the
gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven,
preach any other gospel unto you than that
which we have preached unto you, let him
be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, if
any man preach any other gospel unto you
than that ye have received, let him be
accursed.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or
do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased
men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
But I certify you, brethren, that the
gospel which was preached of me is not
after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither
was I taught it, but by the revelation of
Jesus Christ
Galatians 1:6-12


These Disciples also wrote their books but most were purged out of the bible, leaving majorly paulistic teachings that was agreeable to the council of Nicea
[i] Still same thing. Wasn't it the same Spirit that worked in all of them? Are you saying it isn't God's plan to have the bible the way it is


THE LAW WAS NEVER SET ASIDE AT THE CROSS SIR. That was pauls teaching, adopted by the Roman Church who did not want to practice jewish laws.
Read your book of Leviticus & Deuteronomy, observe that most of the laws end with a caveat;

"these laws shall stand forever. I AM THE LORD"

Forever means what it is, FOREVER, & signed by the most high himself.. 'I AM'
smiley Most times when we say the Law we mean the ministration of the law. Whenever the law was and is read there is a veil covering but when Christ is preached this veil is removed . The law condemns us and Christ saves. On the cross Christ paid our debts of sin and removed the hand writing of requirement which is the law written on table of stones. Now, whosoever believes is freed from condemnation, freed from the law.

In this new covenant of grace, God writes His laws in our hearts that we do not need to go back to the law for direction anymore. We are now children of God led by His Spirit through Christ' death

The Law is holy and is no longer on stones but in the hearts of believers all to glory of GOD
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 5:06am On Jul 31, 2017
Let us try to avoid empty rhetorics and hot air without substance. If we could just deal with the facts as we are made aware of them.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by In4matic: 6:49am On Jul 31, 2017
[quote author=An2elect2 post=58994262] [i] The question is which gospel was spread to the world. which gospel should Christian's follow. And which gospel saves? smiley


There is only one gospel but two kinds of apostleship. Peter was to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles. Peter did not fully understand the gospel of grace.

Paul was confident that the gospel committed to him was the only gospel ), that which he got by revelation

[quote]

Therein is your error. You cannot defend the authenticity of an author with excerpts from that same author.
So Peter did not understand the work Christ sent him but Paul who never studied under Jesus, UNDERSTOOD BY 'REVELATION'.

Paul Was laying curses on 'Any One Who Preached A Contrary Gospel'! How self serving.

In 1 bredth he talks of the curse of the law and then turn again to declare blessing of abraham which was from the era of the law!

And you see nothing disjointed there?

Deuteronomy 28, There Is Only Blessings For KEEPING THE LAW AND CURSES FOR BREAKING IT.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by In4matic: 6:55am On Jul 31, 2017
PastorAIO:


Aladura nko?

Hahahaha, Pls Ask him oh.
PastorAIO, I duff my hat for your unbiased analyses of the issue at hand. Please create a counter thread to this and push this your deep insights out. Too long the body of christ have continued in lukewarmness. Mention me when you do
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Wilgrea7(m): 7:51am On Jul 31, 2017
PastorAIO:


I think what actually happened was that the gospel that Paul taught won out over all the other forms of christianity. Without a doubt there were other christians that contradicted Paul. Many of them included Jesus' actual followers and disciples.

For example, many see the Letter of James as making reference to the teachings of Paul and contradicting them.


2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3

22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror.

James1

You can say that James is attacking Paul's doctrine. Or alternatively you can say that James is attacking other people that have twisted Paul's doctrine to mean that you don't have to buttress Faith with Actions/Works.

17So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2


I don't believe that jive that Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and Peter to the Jews. Did Paul start the church in Rome? When Paul wrote his letter to the Romans was there not already a bubbling church there, and Paul hadn't even smelled Rome talk less of stepping foot in Rome. So someone else already established the Church in Rome.


nice point.. the only other forms of Christianity i could remember then were the Christian gnostics.. obviously the early fathers had a major problem with them because some of them didn't acknowledge the existence of Jesus and were trying to make it all symbolic... basically, it seems that books like peter, 123 john were written either in opposition to or in support of a particular view
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 9:11am On Aug 01, 2017
Wilgrea7:


nice point.. the only other forms of Christianity i could remember then were the Christian gnostics.. obviously the early fathers had a major problem with them because some of them didn't acknowledge the existence of Jesus and were trying to make it all symbolic... basically, it seems that books like peter, 123 john were written either in opposition to or in support of a particular view

A common view in early christianity was called docetism. Docetism influenced gnosticism greatly. Although the groups we call gnostics were mainly a 2nd century phenomenon, their ideas already existed from the early days of christianity. Docetism is a main one.

Johannine christianity was in conflict with the Docetics. That is why when you read the letters of john it will make more sense once you realise that there were many christians who were docetics.

Docetism believes that Christ was not physical flesh when he came but maintained a heavenly essence so that all we saw was an apparition. It also affected Islam later a bit with the idea that Christ could not have been crucified but it was an illusion that got crucified.

the Johannites attacked this view. e.g.

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
1st John chapt 4

Obviously many of John's disciples were being lured by docetic teachings and he was reacting to that.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.


John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by revelatiorcm(m): 12:27pm On Aug 01, 2017
none of them but God
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by ysyowel(m): 12:41pm On Aug 01, 2017
Jesus found The new set of people (new creatures) Paul didn't died for anybody Christ did. All that we need to know Jesus taught us but during his time he told his disciples that the Spirit will come and He will teach them all things. Paul was inspired by Spirit to write what he wrote
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by owoleola: 4:51pm On Aug 01, 2017
[quote author=In4matic post=58989324][/quote]read a couple of your posts on this topic,you have to be careful so that you dont embrace legalism.......Paul's teachings never contradicted the Gospel,his teachings are mainly centered on Grace,which is the bedrock of the Gospel,the law has been done away with on the cross,in fact the law was not given so that anyone could be justified by it in the first place,was only for condemnation.in other words,the law was not given to show God how incapable man was,instead to tell man himself how wretched he is.........dont get confused,Peter and Paul may be apostles to the jews and gentiles respectively,but they ultimately spread same message,that is, only faith in christ could save any,whether a jew or a gentile(though Peter was missing it at some point,and who told you Peter cant miss it)..........the only set of people that would have problems with Paul's teachings would be the legalistic ones,that is,people whose grand parents were the pharisees.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 5:12pm On Aug 01, 2017
Since Peter can miss it, I wonder, is it ever possible for Paul to miss it. Both of them having the same Holy Spirit.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by owoleola: 8:42pm On Aug 01, 2017
PastorAIO:
Since Peter can miss it, I wonder, is it ever possible for Paul to miss it. Both of them having the same Holy Spirit.
what am saying is that,peter got it wrong when he thought gentiles would have to be conformed to the jewish laws and all that.......Apostle Paul later cleared this by telling us circumcision and uncircumcision were nothing,i am not ranking Apostles here.....tell me,what do you believe,have the laws been done away with or not?

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by LoJ: 9:04pm On Aug 01, 2017
owoleola:
what am saying is that,peter got it wrong when he thought gentiles would have to be conformed to the jewish laws and all that.......Apostle Paul later cleared this by telling us circumcision and uncircumcision were nothing,i am not ranking Apostles here.....tell me,what do you believe,have the laws been done away with or not?
PastorAIO has a huge point here.

If Peter could be wrong, what prevents Paul from erring too?

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by jnrbayano(m): 10:18pm On Aug 01, 2017
PastorAIO:
To add some spice to the whole question of biblical interpretations and how to interpret bible passages here is a great example of how two people can take the very same bible passage and interpret it to mean 2 diametric contradicting meanings.


Genesis 15: 6

6Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.


Paul takes this passage and interprets it like this:

3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Romans 4


James in direct contradiction takes the same passage ( and this part of the reason why scholars think that he particularly has Paul's doctrines in mind when writing) and says:

22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “- Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone


James 2.


Same passage. 2 totally different doctrines. So much for using the bible to interpret the bible.

Paul sighted Abraham's early stage in his walk with God.

James sighted Abraham's later stage (after sacrificing Isaac)

Two different period in Abraham's life. James is complementary to Paul and never a contradiction.

Paul=Faith alone saves (coming from an impure state and doesn't require "works of the law" )

James= The faith that saves is not alone (it requires the "work of faith" to validate the presence of such saving faith)

They both talked about same faith but different works.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by GenghisAlexa(m): 10:26pm On Aug 01, 2017
Jesus wasn't a doctrine kinda guy
He was just a free spirit
The doctrines came later when powers wanted to exploit people's love for him.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 11:11pm On Aug 01, 2017
LoJ:

PastorAIO has a huge point here.

If Peter could be wrong, what prevents Paul from erring too?

I'm not ranking apostles either. What I said is that since Peter got it wrong is it also possible that Paul got it wrong too? Or did Paul have a special anointing of the spirit that Peter didn't have.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 11:20pm On Aug 01, 2017
Is the faith alone or is it not alone?


jnrbayano:


Paul sighted Abraham's early stage in his walk with God.

James sighted Abraham's later stage (after sacrificing Isaac)

Two different period in Abraham's life. James is complementary to Paul and never a contradiction.

Paul=Faith alone saves (coming from an impure state and doesn't require "works of the law" )

James= The faith that saves is not alone (it requires the "work of faith" to validate the presence of such saving faith)

They both talked about same faith but different works.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Syncan(m): 7:38am On Aug 02, 2017
jnrbayano:


Paul sighted Abraham's early stage in his walk with God.

James sighted Abraham's later stage (after sacrificing Isaac)

Two different period in Abraham's life. James is complementary to Paul and never a contradiction.

Paul=Faith alone saves (coming from an impure state and doesn't require "works of the law" )

James= The faith that saves is not alone (it requires the "work of faith" to validate the presence of such saving faith)

They both talked about same faith but different works.


He is right in what he is portraying, your position isn't easy to support convincingly using bible alone, more passages could be thrown up from Paul, seemingly championing "faith alone", yet James completely destroyed that line of thought. That's the flaw in the claim that we use bible to interpret bible. Your Position is true only in the eye of faith in the infallibility of the Church, which has declared both Paul and James writings as inspired. Trusting in her wisdom, we search for the reason why she ignored such a seeming contradiction. That's when propositions like yours surfaces, and looking through the eye of the church at other scripture passages and oral traditions, are acceptable to the faithful.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by johnydon22(m): 8:03am On Aug 02, 2017
donteanz:
Over the years, i've heard the teachings of the bible on how Jesus had taught us on how to live a life that is pleasing unto God. Subsequent studying of the bible had lead me to uncover many things that has been disregarded.
The teachings of apostle Paul were different from that of the messiah and even contradicted some of the teachings and law of prophet Moses. And Jesus during his life time said, "for i have not come to change but to fulfil the law" of Moses.
I would be glad if anyone could help shed more light to this.

Good observation... In the Christianity of today the underlying Philosophy behind the doctrines are divided into two groups.

on one side there are - Johannine Christianity : This Christianity is dependent more on the teachings of Jesus as record in the bible, example they seem to believe in good work with a little doze of faith, they teach that faith without good work is dead and they more or less take more from the teachings of John and other apostles than Paul while formulating their doctrines.

Example of such type of Christianity is the Catholic Church.

Then on the other side there are Pauline Christians - this is the Faith driven Christians, everything is dependent on faith, your faith only saves you. They derive more doctrinal basis from the teachings of Paul (who emphasized so much on faith that faith became the only virtue to him) than they do from other apostolic sources. Example are: Many pentecostals
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by johnydon22(m): 8:04am On Aug 02, 2017
PastorAIO:

Is the faith alone or is it not alone?



Good question, its either alone or not

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 9:28am On Aug 02, 2017
In fact it is obvious from reading the bible that the letters of Paul were already creating such a problem for the Jerusalem based church that not only does the letter of James tackle it, but also the letters of Peter.

just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard not to be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.…


Syncan:



He is right in what he is portraying, your position isn't easy to support convincingly using bible alone, more passages could be thrown up from Paul, seemingly championing "faith alone", yet James completely destroyed that line of thought. That's the flaw in the claim that we use bible to interpret bible. Your Position is true only in the eye of faith in the infallibility of the Church, which has declared both Paul and James writings as inspired. Trusting in her wisdom, we search for the reason why she ignored such a seeming contradiction. That's when propositions like yours surfaces, and looking through the eye of the church at other scripture passages and oral traditions, are acceptable to the faithful.
Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Syncan(m): 10:56am On Aug 02, 2017
PastorAIO:
In fact it is obvious from reading the bible that the letters of Paul were already creating such a problem for the Jerusalem based church that not only does the letter of James tackle it, but also the letters of Peter.

just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard not to be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.…


Correct. The Church however sees that Peter called him "beloved brother" and did not condemn him, rather acclaimed that his teachings were being misinterpreted albeit by "ignorant and unstable" folks. It's most certain that the first impression you get from reading Paul isn't exactly all he was saying, he probably assumes a base knowledge for his readers, a knowledge he probably had passed on while preaching orally.

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Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by Ubenedictus(m): 1:06pm On Aug 02, 2017
ITbomb:
Jesus operated a faith under Judaism that the promised Messiah has come. He still attended the synagogue, temple and did things according to the tradition of the Jews but with a new message of love and personal relationship with The Father.

Even Peter followed suit even after the Pentecost as well as all others who were with Christ during His time on earth BUT Paul was given a different mandate by Christ after his resurrection.

Christ on earth repeatedly talked about saving the Jews first before giving the crumbs to the Gentiles but we would never understand what happened after resurrection that he commissioned Paul specifically for the Gentile.

The gospel we hear today is more of the new mandate given to Paul and not the version Peter was mandated by Christ Himself to spread (ie Christian faith within Judaism) that's why Peter and Paul initially had some clash before they decided to take their respective gospel to their targeted audience.
Peter to the Jews
Paul to the Gentiles

Read Acts 15
If you consider vs 5, you will observe that certain believers in Christ were still Pharisees.
After the arguments, you read the final verdict in vs 29.
If you read the Bible well you will notice that from then onwards, Paul's teaching dominated the rest of the gospel.
You are creating a false dichotomy, even paul was a jew-like christian just like Jesus and prayer.


Paul was known to visit the temple anytime he was in Jerusalem, he made a point of going to the synagogues every time he arrives a town and he also preach first to Jews until he was rejected by them before the gentiles.

It was after he failed with the Jews that he styled himself apostle of the gentiles and left Jewish conversion to others.


Peter wasn't exclusively for the Jews either, he began the welcoming of the gentiles with cornelius declaring the gentiles to be christian and historically he is known to have preach in gentiles launch.


Stop the false dichotomy.
Thanks

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