it will be interesting to see which states excel and which fail, and what political and economic philosophies each state will take in comparison to the others around them

i think the western states and delta ones will bel liberal while the core east and north will be conservative because you can already see the shift happening.

idk, just a random thought it felt was interesting.

Ideally we can see this happen after Nigeria is partitioned. Otherwise progress will be slowed down. Have you ever run a three legged race before? You partner up with a friend, tie onf your legs to his with a rope, and then try to run. As you might imagine, it is very difficult, and much harder than just running separately. That is how Nigeria currently is, and why the country has not progressed in 50+ years. Better to separate and progress separately than to stagnate together.

that doesn't make any sense.
russia and china have more diversity then nigeria, they're running a 3 legged race just fine. separation is way out of the question. lets deal with real facts.

Ikengawo:

that doesn't make any sense.
russia and china have more diversity then nigeria, they're running a 3 legged race just fine. separation is way out of the question. lets deal with real facts.

That is not functionally true. Russia is very diverse, but is dominated by a single ethnic group (the Russians) who make up 80% of the population.

China is even more lopsided; 90%+ Han.

Moreover, Russia has been dominated by its predominant ethnic group for 800+ years. In the case of China, the Han have dominated it for literally thousads of years.

Ikengawo, u make no sense.

^cool.

That is not functionally true. Russia is very diverse, but is dominated by a single ethnic group (the Russians) who make up 80% of the population.

China is even more lopsided; 90%+ Han.

Moreover, Russia has been dominated by its predominant ethnic group for 800+ years. In the case of China, the Han have dominated it for literally thousads of years.

^cool.
now justify Indonesia

obviously this thread requires too much forethought for this website. i apologize for trying, smh.

I'm confused. You made a claim, I demonstrated how it is false. Why the snide remarks? If you have some other evidence to support your POV, then feel free to put it forth.

I suspect you'll have to take a different approach than the one you tried above; most of the top economies in the world are ethnically homogeneous countries.

DapoBear:

I'm confused. You made a claim, I demonstrated how it is false. Why the snide remarks? If you have some other evidence to support your POV, then feel free to put it forth.

I suspect you'll have to take a different approach than the one you tried above; most of the top economies in the world are ethnically homogeneous countries.

I am sure he is going to give USA as the exception

asha 80:

I am sure he is going to give USA as the exception

Heh, the US is 60%+ white. And of the 40% or less who aren't white, a lot of them are very into mainstream white American culture. If you think about it for a bit, countries like Nigeria (and Lebanon, India before the partition, Yugoslavia, etc) are not going to be successful. To have a successful country, you need one culture that the majority of people feel allegiance to. By having Igbo, Hausa, Yoruba, you've made that impossible. There is implicitly tension, discord, and distrust. Less time spent building and more type spent jealously squabbling over oil stolen from the Delta.

i don't buy the homogenous argument because the homogenous countries in africa, Somalia, and Eritrea, are two of the hottest messes on the planet.

It makes no difference, if you're PEOPLE in unable to stay on subject on a thread about their future on a website, they're unable to develop cause that feat more complicated.

ethnicity isn't holding us back, corruption is, and all of our tribes have corrupt leadership.

Development in nigeria is halted by money being stolen when it's given to governors and local government heads. My governor and local government head are igbo men. If the country splits they'll still be Igbo and still be thieves.

Heh, the US is 60%+ white. And of the 40% or less who aren't white, a lot of them are very into mainstream white American culture. If you think about it for a bit, countries like Nigeria (and Lebanon, India before the partition, Yugoslavia, etc) are not going to be successful. To have a successful country, you need one culture that the majority of people feel allegiance to. By having Igbo, Hausa, Yoruba, you've made that impossible. There is implicitly tension, discord, and distrust. Less time spent building and more type spent jealously squabbling over oil stolen from the Delta.

and there's no tension WITHIN igbo society against igbos? no tension within yoruba and no tension in the north?


A yoruba man has never stolen from the Imo state treasury, and stealing is what's killing us not diversity.

Ikengawo:

i don't buy the homogenous argument because the homogenous countries in africa, Somalia, and Eritrea, are two of the hottest messes on the planet.

It makes no difference, if you're PEOPLE in unable to stay on subject on a thread about their future on a website, they're unable to develop cause that feat more complicated.

ethnicity isn't holding us back, corruption is, and all of our tribes have corrupt leadership.

Development in nigeria is halted by money being stolen when it's given to governors and local government heads. My governor and local government head are igbo men. If the country splits they'll still be Igbo and still be thieves.

If I believe that a homogenous country is a prerequisite for a good country, this doesn't mean that homogeneity GUARANTEES a good country. As Somalia is a good example of.

Look, if Yorubaland were its own country, well, we have our own mechanisms for dealing with frauds and crooks. I'm not saying that corruption would go away immediately, but the cockroach Yoruba who want to steal would then have very little room to hide from justice. The current structure of Nigeria does not allow us to do that. Yoruba man can steal in his homeland and then go live in Abuja. If the country were partitioned, cockroaches like that can be squashed.

Your theory can't explain why switzerland (hetergenous) is centuries ahead of Haiti (homogenous) and Somalia


you can have 100000000000000 ethnic groups and you can have 1.
if all 100000000000000 are useless they will make 100000000000000 useless countries when seperated and 1 useless country when united.

you also speak as if the US is 'more homogenous' cause of 'mainstream white culture' neglecting the fact that nigeria is united by 'mainstream nigerian culture'


mainstream white culture
-movies
-tv
-music
-religion
-language
-sports

mainstream nigerian culture
-nollywood
-nigerian TV
-nigerian pop music
-religion (though this is the only one on the fence because muslim and christian, though in the US they're dealing with hindu, atheists, muslims, and every religion in the known world at once but im sure were going to decide nigeria is the first multi religious country)
-English and broken english
-same sports.




so where does 'mainstream white culture' provide an excuse that 'mainstream nigerian culture' doesn't? both have ppl in their countries that don't live in the respective realms of both cultures but the majority of both populations do.

I listen to the same Dbanj, watch the same Jim Iyke, and hate the same Keita as any hausa, yoruba or ijaw youth.

Look, you'll probably be able to find a few counterexamples like Switzerland. but if you form a list of the top 20 countries by GDP, or say GDP per capita, you'll notice a clear trend.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Igbo/Hausa people or culture. But I live here in California and also really like Reggae. That doesn't mean California needs to enter political union with Jamaica, or something.

The current system is not working. 50 years of no progress. Partition the country.

now you're backing away from the point you were trying to make

"nigeria can't develop cause it's heterogenous"

heterogenous Switzerland with 4 national languages had no problem doing this
homogenous Somali did



even look at nigeria as is. VERY hetergenous Lagos is doing worlds better then VERY homogenous Ogun state.


If they seperated Ogun state would still be full of criminals and Lagos would still have Fashola.

Very hetergenous Rivers State is doing better then very homogenous Imo state and both have oil so that's not the factor.




Ethiopia is still doing better then Somalia and Ethiopia is Heterogenous and Somali is homogenous.

Yoruba land isn't held back by igbos, it's held back by corrupt yoruba man AS YOU SAID (you:they steal and go to Abuja). If Yoruba land was a country guess what? they would steal and go to Abuja. Thieves are thieves


you originally spoke of it as a guarantee, got proven wrong, now it's a 'factor' and i've given you 100 examples where it's not a factor.



Nigeria is fucking up cause nigerians are fucking up not because outside of ALL SPEAKING ENGLISH we speak different languages.


Igbos, Hausa, Yoruba are all stealing, so do you think a Yoruba country is going to be developed?

Unity allows an Igbo man to go to Lagos and make money and a Yoruba man to go to Onitsha and make money. Division will only lead both ppl to the US and England and nothing will change.

Let's agree to disagree, then. And to be honest, I don't think Yoruba really migrate east. So not sure how that economic argument benefits us. And if you are motivated by fear that I'm saying form Yorubaland and kick out the Igbo, I'm not saying that. I want the best and most talented Igbo to stay in Yorubaland and eventually become part of us. In fact, I want the best people all over the world, white, chinese, indian, whatever to move to Yorubaland.

So have no fear that partition would mean losing your property in Lagos, or something. At least, I'm not an advocate of that.

As an unbiased onlooker i believe ikenga has won the debate hands down and simply 'agreeing to disagree' is simply choosing not to accept someone else' obviously superior sense of reason. Heterogenity is no reason for underdevelopment therefore it is not a valid excuse to partition Nigeria.
And to add from an economic point of view, the benefits of a united Nigeria outweigh those of a partitioned nation.

DapoBear:

That is not functionally true. Russia is very diverse, but is dominated by a single ethnic group (the Russians) who make up 80% of the population.

China is even more lopsided; 90%+ Han.

Moreover, Russia has been dominated by its predominant ethnic group for 800+ years. In the case of China, the Han have dominated it for literally thousads of years.

Thank you! You seem to be a very knowledgeable individual. Kudos to you. I have been telling people this information for a couple of months.

However, what about the case of India. Many ethnic groups, religions and languages.

EzeUche0:

Thank you! You seem to be a very knowledgeable individual. Kudos to you. I have been telling people this information for a couple of months.

However, what about the case of India. Many ethnic groups, religions and languages.

They fought a fairly bloody war of partition. Remember, India used to be India+Pakistan+Bangladesh. Pakistan and Bangladesh ware carved out as Muslim homelands, they were in fact one country. But the Pakistani side oppressed the Bangladeshi, who then ended up revolting and seeking independence.

To be honest, Pakistan might be better off partitioning, google a bit and read up on some of the ethnic and religous tension there.

Finally, what is now India is primarily unified by Hindu culture and religion. They have thousands of different groups, but iirc 80% of the population shares this same religion, and a large fraction of them speak the same language. Also, unlike the case of Nigeria, large parts of subcontinental India has been united in the past, most recently by the Mughal Empire.

To be honest, India and its component ethnic groups is probably more analogous to Yorubaland and its different subethnic groups than to Nigeria as a whole. Yorubaland has historically been pretty divided. Different parts have different origin stories, different cultures, different religions (Islam, Christianity, indigenous religion). But fortunately, we have a common language and an ancestor Oduduwa (well, if I remember correctly, there is at least one Yoruba group who claims to not be descended from Odudwa).

Sorta see what I'm saying? You need very powerful forces to bind together a country, something like a national religion (Hinduism), or some common language and ancestor (Oduduwa). The forces that hold Nigeria together are too weak to sustain it longterm, imo.

DapoBear, I think your theory is misguided. So many diverse countries have already been mentioned here. Let me add one more. Brazil.

Don't get me wrong though as I'm not trying to say that "multi-culture" societies work. The culture of the majority will always be predominant.

Even if we were to humour your ideology, what about the fact that the whole of West Africa is looking to integrate through ECOWAS? What is going to be the point in disintegration and the gigantic mess that will cause only for us to reintegrate with the rest of West Africa a few years down the line?

Disintegration at this point in time makes no sense at all.

Dapo, you just like quoting history and ignore the fact that you point has 0 consistent indicators of very being true


lets look at india. Heterogenous, it divided from Pakistan and is STILL heterogenous, where Pakistan is more Homogenous.

result? India is doing better then Pakistan in all indicators id proving your point
BUT India is still home to more impoverished ppl then all of Africa, which is more diverse then India.

and Pakistan with a similar independence date then nigeria, similar population and 1 religion 1 people (for the most part) is doing worst then Nigeria with 2 major religions and 250 ethnic divisions.





the reason? if you split 1 bad country in 2 you make 2 bad countries. No matter how fragmented your pheces is, or how whole in singular it comes out you'll still flush it cause it stinks.








Dividing Nigeria will do many things

1. LETS THINK HERE. period to colonialism AFRICANS DIDN'T DRAW MAPS, who will decide where a Yoruba country starts and ends? Onitsha is a historically Bini city, but is clearly Igbo now, who will get Onitsha? do you think Onitsha is the ONLY city in nigeria with this problem? there a thousands of them. What will decided this is war and genocide. the 2 keys to development right?  Look at India and Pakistan, still pointing nukes at each other cause their 'seperation' was as artificial as their union after how many wars with each other?


2. Do you REALLY think Pfizer will invest in a "yoruba country" or any company as a matter of fact. Nigeria has the highest FDI in africa (by far) because of population and the fact we all speak english.

you mean to tell me Pfizer will make a branch in their company to teach their investors and employees the yoruba language so they can make an investment in a country smaller then Cameroon? Be real. What company will invest in that nonsense, i'll just take my money and go to Ghana and keep speaking english to a larger market.


Nigeria isn't a union of 3 sides, it's a union of 250 sides. You mean to tell me 250 countries are going to develop separated when there's only 15 in the entire world though the 5000 year history of human civilization are developed today?


not a single one of those countries would stand a chance of being any richer then The Central African Republic. Lagos is Lagos cause its BIGGER your village is your village cause it's SMALLER.

NOBODY, even your village champions, are investing in your village.

common.
human.
sense.

I'm not sure I agree. Lots of those post soviet countries are doing very well. Singapore did extremely well. The states that compose the former Yugoslavia are certainly better off.

Regarding the economic stuff you bring up, economic cooperation does not necessarily mean a single gov't is needed. The EU countries are primarily an economic union, not a political one. Same for NAFTA, whatever the Latin American and South American ones are called too (cannot remember the names off the top of my head.) NAFTA does not give the US the right to interfere in Mexican or Canadian politics, for example. They manage their own affairs, and we meet at the (economic) middle.

Just because I advocate political separation doesn't mean I'm some sort of economic protectionist.

And no, Pakistan and India are both better off than Nigeria, sad as that might sound.

Regarding Pfizer, how much investment are they doing in Nigeria now? Not very much, certainly not enough to butter any bread. Internal development and internal investment are what are required. And I'd be willing to leave America to help build Yorubaland, but am less inclined to fix the gigantic mess that is Nigeria.

In general, splitting problems into smaller, more manageable pieces is a good idea, btw.

Singapore is not doing well because it split from the FOM. It is doing well just like Malaysia because both countries had good progressive governments.

Since we seem to have adopted the US model of Federal states in Nigeria we should correctly apply the model and take more power from the centre to give it to the states. Disintegration is not the answer.

well, i dont understand the question or the topic.

is it as the nigerian states develop or IF the nigerian states develop.

"As" is assuming the nigerian states will develop?

alright, i guess you just made an intelligent statement that was witty and unpredictable.
I bet you get all the girls. smh.

I'm not sure I agree. Lots of those post soviet countries are doing very well. Singapore did extremely well. The states that compose the former Yugoslavia are certainly better off.

Regarding the economic stuff you bring up, economic cooperation does not necessarily mean a single gov't is needed. The EU countries are primarily an economic union, not a political one. Same for NAFTA, whatever the Latin American and South American ones are called too (cannot remember the names off the top of my head.) NAFTA does not give the US the right to interfere in Mexican or Canadian politics, for example. They manage their own affairs, and we meet at the (economic) middle.

Just because I advocate political separation doesn't mean I'm some sort of economic protectionist.

And no, Pakistan and India are both better off than Nigeria, sad as that might sound.

Regarding Pfizer, how much investment are they doing in Nigeria now? Not very much, certainly not enough to butter any bread. Internal development and internal investment are what are required. And I'd be willing to leave America to help build Yorubaland, but am less inclined to fix the gigantic mess that is Nigeria.

In general, splitting problems into smaller, more manageable pieces is a good idea, btw.

smh.

Im using Pfizer as a hypothetical example. Unless you want to imply that NO company is investing in Nigeria and there is NO internal investment. smh.


Nobody cares if you want to leave America and build Yoruba land. what is stopping you from doing it now? My point is that companies flock to nigeria cause of it's size. Nigeria has significant political economic cultural and even technological superiority compared to it's neighbors because of it's size.

why throw that all away so that you can have a country called Yorubaland that is no bigger or better then Sierra Leone.

Right now as an investor, if i was to choose Sierra Leone or Nigeria i would pick Nigeria, but you want to split Nigeria into 2 Sierra Leones ('yoruba land' and biafra) and 1 Niger (north nigeria), good job.


From the retracting of your points that increase with time it's clear to all of us that you know you're wrong. just bow out gracefully instead of making more failed attempts to REALLY convince yourself that the problems in Yorubaland aren't brought on by fellow Yoruba thieves and despots that will STILL be in your 'country' if it is split into a more 'manageable piece'

43 Nigeria
44 Pakistan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

^list of economies by rank according to UN CIA and World Bank

and i didn't say Nigeria is doing better then India i said India have more ppl living under the poverty line then Africa. Which is a true fact.


Proof:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10609407
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7019257324?India%20Has%20More%20Poor%20Than%2026%20African%20Nations%20Combined
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/8/26/holyshtyour128642550797202789.jpg

[b]Errrrrrrm, Dapobear is on point.
It is one thing to have ethno-cultural diversity in a country. It is another thing to have a Governable, well fused and progressive ethno-cultural diversity in a country.
For those of you giving instances with countries that have some measure of diversity like Nigeria, you should ask yourselves if the diversity in those countries serve as impediments to their development and peaceful co-existence.
Nigeria's diversity is different because it serves as a huge impediment to our peaceful co-existence and national progress. All those federal character, zoning bull craps are real impediments to our coexistence. They show that we wish for a form of separation for peace and progress to reign.
Partitioning may not necessarily mean outright separation. Nigeria will be more progressive as a con-federation than as a united entity. Fact is that it will;
1. Ensure that every region gets governed by their leaders without having to wait for their turns in a zoning arrangement.
2. It will reduce the amount of religious massacres that happens frequently.
3. It will ensure that resources are effectively controlled by regions, thereby putting an end to the MEND/militancy Phenomenon.
4. It will get the people closer to their leaders, and give less routes for a corrupt leader to get protected by a weak central government.
5. It will aid easy policing and provision of security.
6. It give way for leaders to govern their own people with the passion of providing the best for them.
7, it will give rise to healthy competition for development among regions.

The list is endless.
Nigeria will definitely move forward if it is partitioned.[/b]

The only way Nigeria can improve is for all people to understand that we are better off working together than apart

Using the demography of Malasia as a case study. The indigenous Malays make up 65% of the population and as such control the politics and the government. Chinese make up 26% and control the commerce and administration. South Asians (Indians etc) make up 8% and dominate the more unskilled and manual tasks.

These 3 ethnic groups privately detest each other. however, they all understand that their individual prosperity is linked to their co-operation with the other. sadly, until Nigeria and the rest of Africa get a grasp of this concept, I am afraid we will still be using candle under the bright sunlight

^smart post.



Also you people act like all ppl do in nigeria is kill and eat ppl from other tribes lol.


walking through any lagos market, at any gathering of NIGERIAN ppl, the result is unanimous: NOBODY CARES ANYMORE.


Everyone is going to prefer their tribe and some ppl will have prejudice but the level of mixing and cooperating of tribes FAR out weighs 3 or 4 'ethnic' fights per every 2 years in a country of 150 million.

Nobody really cares anymore and anyone acting like tribe is the #1 issue in nigeria hasn't been in naija since Babangida.

I spent 2 days hanging out in Alaba market. Sellers and Buyers from all tribes came, laughed, communicated, argued, and simply went about their business. Its is what i've been seeing in Nigeria for the past ever.




My father went to a delegation for GEJ to meet him and delegates from all over the country and the first thing he told me was boldly: Everyone has put the tribe thing behind them.

Everyone in nigeria is concerned with employment, not tribe.



also, can someone give me a real example where tribe his holding back the governance of nigeria?



MEND is a failed example because it's not a tribal group or an Ijaw group, it's an economic terrorist group created to combat shell from ruining Ijaw communities. It just happens the Ijaw ppl started it but it's not a tribal group. It's like calling the Red Cross a white cultural organization in the same respect as the Klu Klux Klan just because a white person started it. They have no intention of 'attacking' other ethnic groups, just anyone they see and an enemy to their goal of an improved Niger Delta which no tribe is against.


Zoning is also a bad example. Zoning is a practice of the PDP and the PDP only, and with the coming of federal primaries they have eliminated the practice (my father is a PDP head, he says primaries have replaced zoning for good and the media is just blowing zoning out of proportion to sell copies).


anyways, a real example of how tribe is holding back nigeria, waiting.

@Ikengawo

Refreshing! I love your thought process. I agree with you and support those arguments. Thanks