Ttalk:
Atiku is a book that should not be read, a stillborn, an aborted dream, and a born failure whose destiny is bound to fail.

All of his political journey pointed to too many avoidable mistakes.

He chose to fight the wrong people.

Chooses the wrong time and has always made the wrong decision.

It is rumored he slept with the wrong gender and traveled at the wrong time to the wrong places.

He fights his best friends and keeps his staunch enemy.

Make Atiku a general, and he would destroy his battalion with stray bullets, an Atiku as a pilot, and expect a crashed plane.

Atiku's too many poor decisions are a red flag for a sane mind. He alone should pursue his lost battle

Good point! But what does this have to do with the fact that Tinubu submitted a forged diploma to INEC?

I might be missing the connection and this is why i ask. Please educate me and i am a bit sarcastic but ignore my sarcasm!

Mr Atiku has a very solid case in Court! Please see it through!

Stoplying:

https://www.dscc.edu/content/what-official-or-unofficial-transcript#:~:text=Unofficial%20transcripts%20are%20those%20issued,to%20another%20college%20or%20university.

So basically this is what this guy has been finding all about. It is just about the way transmission that is all.
I was actually right in what I was saying, there is nothing official about a transcript, that is why these guys need the university to directly send them the transcript in order to make sure it is not a fake, and the sent transcript is what they refer to as "official".

LOL.. I feel sorry for you! So are you admitting there is a such thing as "Official" and "Unofficial" transcript, now that you have learned to search for knowledge outside of what you think you know? The moment you think you are smart is the very moment you start being foolish! Think about that.

Stoplying:

And where does it say what is considered "official" and what is considered "unofficial" transcript?
Where does it say that "stamped university results" are not official transcripts ?

LOL...classic case of deflection when backed to the corner! You said there was no such thing as "Official transcript"!
Do you need me to hold your hands and explain to you to aid in understanding what you have written?

You have to be a troll! I have fed you enough! Have a good day dear sir/ma!

I am sure there are folks representing both Atiku and Tinubu sifting through this discussion board as we speak.
I personally cannot wait to see how this goes down in court!

12inchess:


Did this governor actually graduate from the school he said he did? Did the school come to his defense? Stop lying or trying to be smart by half.

This is why i said it is debatable and could be uncharted territory. So let us wait and see, both sides have ammunitions but let us see who wins!

Stoplying:

They thought your transcript was a fraud. There is no such thing as "official transcript" it is all the same. But it is a document which can easily be faked. And as you said, you had your university send them the transcript. Your problem is more about the people you submitted your transcript not trusting you.
You haven't said in what circumstances you were submitting your transcript. It seems you don't have a diploma.

Here, this is an excerpt from Stanford University's website for example :

You must list and provide your unofficial transcript for every post-secondary institution where you were enrolled — or are currently enrolled — in an undergraduate or graduate degree program.

Stanford considers unofficial transcripts to be sufficient for the review process. If you are offered admission to Stanford and accept the offer, you will be required to submit official transcripts/degree conferral documents.

https://gradadmissions.stanford.edu/apply/transcripts

Stoplying:

They thought your transcript was a fraud. [b]There is no such thing as "official transcript" [/b]it is all the same. But it is a document which can easily be faked. And as you said, you had your university send them the transcript. Your problem is more about the people you submitted your transcript not trusting you.
You haven't said in what circumstances you were submitting your transcript. It seems you don't have a diploma.

You are wrong! Learn and stop making outrageous claims! There is a such thing as "Official Transcript". Just because your knowledge on a subject matter is limited does not make something wrong!

All you need to do is go on any American college website and check for requirements for admission into graduate programs. Common man, what is wrong with you?

12inchess:


Okay ooo. Carry it to court. Shebi you guys are kuku used to losing in court. If he didn't graduate from CSU you would have a case. But since he graduated from there I think it's a waste of time. But it's a free world and Atiku is free to try.

Did you read the part where i stated it is debatable?
Also that provision was used to remove the governor-elect of Bayelsa in 2020, so why do you think this case should be different? I have stated the basis why Tinubu's case could be different, but that was just my opinion!

Stoplying:

1. What is the transitive closure of the empty set ?
2. Give me 3 valid ways of defining the transitive closure of a set of couples.
3. Without infinity axiom, is the transitive closure of belonging a setlike relation ?


Unlike you Nigerians I don't lie as second nature.

Stop lying!

12inchess:

For there to be forgery there must be an attempt to defraud. How can you attempt to defraud when you genuinely obtained the degree. Don't they teach logic in schools?

You are making a huge leap! I don't think intent to defraud is a necessary condition for forgery! It is debatable at best! This is why my opinion is that Tinubu might have a chance to beat the case in court. But from what i gathered from further research, the Nigerian constitution states forgery as grounds for disqualifying a candidate. There was a precedence for the governor-elect of Bayelsa in 2020! So why would it be any different in this scenario?

It says Forged documents! I believe in this context, the nature of the forgery seems irrelevant but i think it could still be argued in court!
Here is an excerpt from an article i found online claiming to be some basis for disqualification
- Forgery: If the candidate has presented a forged certificate to the Independent National Electoral Commission.
A recent use of this provision was when it was used to disqualify the deputy governor-elect of Bayelsa State in 2020.

Stoplying:

Please change your mind and "break apart" my "arguments which is rife with errors and illogical statements".

It will cost you! I accept paypal or cashapp! I just lost my job anyways so i could use some cash!

In my opinion, i think there is a chance Tinubu can argue his case. I am not saying he did not forge his diploma, but because his forgery in this situation does not change the fact that he attended and graduated from CSU, one could argue for a lesser penalty other than disqualification. Unless there is a written rule which explicitly states that forgery of any document submitted is grounds for disqualification. In which case, Tinubu must vacate his presidency!

Stoplying:

I don't use proof theory too much, I created my own way of proving sentences. By the way, I'm a logician.
You used the wrong word, the aim of communication is not to tender a puzzle to everybody, it is to get a message across without ambiguity. That is why we use words rather than just barking at each other. It is easy to be vague, but hard to be precise. If you were smart enough, then you would always talk in an unmistakable manner. That is one of the fire principles of formal languages and firs/second order languages.

Got it! Look up inference and i can guarantee you are not a logician from my interaction with you thus far! How do you graduate from an institution without attending it? Because your bone of contention is that i used the word attend! And by the way, i can break apart your arguments which is rife with errors and illogical statements, but i am not in the mood. I just might change my mind if i want to!

Okoroawusa:
If it has been established that I graduated from a school why would I forge its certificate?

It's not making sense

Well Tinubu's action did not make sense! You are exactly right, because based on evidence so far, that is exactly what he did!
Now the consequence is debatable because he actually did graduate from CSU. The penalty for his actions needs to be measured because of this!

zomby:


A transcript is just a paper?
I could just tell that u went to Ogbomosho polytechnic.
I don’t know why folks can just understand what they are talking about…before they spill nonsense.
May God bless Nigeria and all Nigerians.

I will suggest you ignore him/her, i already know his/her type. However you can continue to lecture if you have the time to waste or for sports!

Stoplying:

Next time use the appropriate word rather than expecting people to read your mind.

Next time, use your brain or whatever is left of it to make logical inferences rather than expect people to spell everything out for you.
You just might have a lesson or two to learn today. Keep going!

Stoplying:

I read words, not minds. It is up to you to specify what you think with precision by using the right words.
So you believe in that emotional intelligence nonsense? 😂

Read words? Yes! Read words to make intelligent conclusions or inference. I will spell it out and hold your hands next time.

Stoplying:

Wrong again, the purpose of a diploma is to give you an academic status. Attendance is not what dipolmas attest for, they attest fir the fact you past the exams in a satisfactory manner.
I have seen people attend a university but fail the exam, and I have seen people who showed up only during exams and passed the exams with success.
The group which failed the exams didn't get the degree, the one which didn't attend classes but past the exams well got the diploma.

Attended/graduated, and the degree obtained etc.

We need to stick to the scope and context. I believe for the sake of argument in this discussion, the bone of contention was if Tinubu attended the university.

Stoplying:

Wrong again, the purpose of a diploma is to give you an academic status. Attendance is not what dipolmas attest for, they attest fir the fact you past the exams in a satisfactory manner.

Lol. I see you are pedantic which is tempting me to change my nature of discourse with you.

Let me help you out here, I used attendance losely in this context. Attendance / graduated. I thought common sense would indicate that was what I was referring to.

I think you should spend some time working on your emotional intelligence. Your motivation and argument are misguided at best.

If INEC is truly an independent body, they should request the official diploma.

If the purpose is to verify Tinubu's sex, I'm afraid it will not help Atiku's goal of fully exposing Tinubu because a diploma doesn't indicate the sex of the recipient.

However, it really doesn't matter, I am of the opinion that Atiku already has the facts proving that Tinubu submitted a forged document to INEC.

But what requires some deep thinking is figuring out the course of action. Mainly because Tinubu did attend CSU, but he submitted a forged diploma. And the purpose of a diploma is to confirm attendance.

But now what? Verifying his attendance through official channels was after the fact. I think this is a self inflicted wound on the part of Tinubu.

I'm not well versed on INEC rules and the Nigerian constitution, but I think this is valid grounds for his disqualification.

But the problem is this, will Tinubu's criminal intent or mis-step change the fact that he attended and graduated from the university? Answer is NO!

So from that perspective, we could argue that submitting a forged document is irrelevant or innocuous in this case because he did graduate from the university.

So then what should be the penalty? I am not sure if disqualification is a measured and appropriate penalty for such an innocuous act.

Stoplying:

1. The function of the transcript is to show your results. Transcripts are normally intended for use by universities, not for the work place. For example, when I apply for a job, I get asked my degree, when I applied for PhD, I was asked my degree and my transcript.
2. The layman recruiter normally has no business asking for your transcript (but some businesses do nowadays in order to differentiate candidates without having entrance exams).
3) An 18/20 mark in school A could be less hard to get than an 11/20 mark in school B, so the transcript is kind of useless.

An official transcript can be used to both verify the institution you attended and your grades. Not just the grades. I am referring to an official transcript sent directly from the institution which is within the scope of the argument/discussion.

Stoplying:

The function of the transcript is to show your results. Transcripts are normally intended for use by universities, not for the work place. For example, when I apply for a job, I get asked my degree, when I applied for PhD, I was asked my degree and my transcript.

Ok.

Stoplying:

A transcript is just a normal paper which you can print yourself, the only difference is that it has the stampnof the university on it. The diploma however is not an ordinary paper, it takes time and special tools to make it, it is an official document. A transcript can be forged very easily, diplomas are much harder to forge.

I don't understand the relationship between the difficulty of obtaining a document and the importance or function of the document.

You cannot just print an official transcript yourself. It must be sent directly from the institution.

Also, both transcripts and Diplomas have the official school stamp. Now if you are referring to the unofficial transcript, then you are right to say it can just be printed. But I didn't think this was the scope of the discussion.

Anyways, I still don't understand the connection between the ease of obtaining a document and it's importance or purpose. I have explained the functions of both documents.

Stoplying:

Notice how the yoruba just create an alternate reality from scratch 😂 It is as if they are assuming that none of us went to universities in developped countries.

I am Yoruba! It has nothing to do with the subject matter. My motivation is to seek the truth and facts.

Stoplying:
VV

My friend, a transcript is just a paper, nothing special about it, it is just a printed paper showing your results in the exams. The actual special paper is the diploma, and it is a crime to forge a diploma.
You are turning things upside down. The diploma is way more important than any transcript. All that you have in a transcript is just your results and an official stamp.

It takes five minutes for a university to deliver a transcript but it takes several weeks for it to deliver a diploma.

Both transcripts and Diplomas are important.

A diploma can be used to verify that you graduated from an institution.
While the transcript can be used to verify the grades you claimed to have attained.

I could even argue that an official transcript is more important because it can be used to verify both the institution you claimed to have attended and your grades.

13october:


For those who have not substituted their brains for plastics (This is for you)

In America, what universities and colleges verify are your transcripts, not your diploma certificate.

A diploma certificate in America is a ceremonial document you hang on a wall. When you apply for a job, your prospective employer verifies your bona fide directly with your institution.

It is not like Nigeria, where they ask to see your certificate. Even your Identity is verified using your social security number rather than any paper documents. That is why American universities use third-party vendors to produce ceremonial replacement certificates but produce the transcripts themselves.

As long as you genuinely graduated from a university in America, you can even use a pencil to draw your own custom diploma certificate, and it is not a forgery. I do not support Bola Tinubu.

But I know for a fact that he was admitted, attended and graduated from Chicago State University because I went there myself. I did not rely on gossip, rumour, and beer parlour talk. We must always support the truth, even if it is against our interests.

- Reno Omokri

False! Absolutely false! The diploma contains the school's formal letter head and the Dean's or President's signature. This is a formal document! It is not ceremonial.

If obtained without going through the authorized channels it is nothing but forgery! No mental gymnastics needed.

Exceed15:


He graduated quite alright but the very certificate submitted to INEC cannot be authenticated by CSU. The confusion is that why is the replacement done by vendors different from CSU? Another pointer is how could someone who arrived CSU almost 20yrs after Tinubu graduated signed the certificate?

A replacement diploma can be signed by the person currently in the position to do so at the said institution.

I think the main question is if he obtained the replacement certificate through the authorized channels approved by the institution?

From all indications so far from what I've read assuming correct, the resounding answer is NO!!!!
So it is forgery! No sugarcoating.

Oh by the way, it is also possible that the current diploma issued by the school in 2023 will be a different format than the one used in 1979. So that is not the bone of contention here and is irrelevant to the subject matter.

Did he obtain the diploma through the authorized channels sanctioned by the institution?

If no the answer is no, then it is a clear case of forgery!

It was established that he attended the university.

You are not allowed to independently use any third party to obtain a replacement diploma. You must make the request through the institution you graduated from.

However there are some institutions that use third party agents to accommodate the request for a replacement diploma.

This still doesn't change the fact that using any third party not authorized by the institution is equivalent to criminal forgery.

There are no two ways around this, it is illegal to create a legal/formal document of an institution independently without going through the authorized channels. This is the definition of forgery! It is as simple as that.

Without much ado, Tinubu submitted forged documents to the Nigerian electoral commission, so the next question is this. What does the Constitution dictate must be done in such cases?

Don't forget, just because Tinubu attended the university does not mean he did not or cannot forge the diploma. He did not get the replacement diploma through the proper authorized channels, so this is simply a case of forgery! End of story and there is no need for any extra mental gymnastics.



--------After further digging, the definition of forgery does not match what Tinubu did as he did not alter the facts on the duplicate certificate he sent to INEC. Yes he made the copy himself but the relevant factual information in the certificate were not altered.

sotall:


Are you thinking at all?

A father that could demand that his own baby be SOLD to him doesn't deserve to be in custody of the baby.

That child will never be safe with him

Not really. It's all about perspective. He probably wanted to pay her off to give up the child since he might have believed that is what the mother is after!
So he wasn't necessarily trying to buy his own child but trying to pay her off so he can have custody. How can you buy what is already yours?