₦airaland Forum

As for that LordReed...

He needs to go back to my first post, in my response to Hohenheim, I say in the third paragraph:

"The Big Bang Theory doesn't show a universe from nothing, it simply explains what happened after the moments that the universe begun.

Better go back to school yourself."

Yet he claims I said The Big Bang was the beginning. So he's either another liar for atheism like jaephoenix, has terrible reading comprehension or holds a psuedoscience view outside of established physics and disagrees with the established evidence that The Big Bang does show that our universe had a beginning. One we have dated back to 13.8 billion years ago.

Like with Hohenheim, I think he needs to go back to school, I'm done educating his tiny intellect that apparently struggles understanding basic concepts and words.

jaephoenix:
Just like the christians I know,you are clearly iggnraunt about history.
I'm sure you haven't heard of the Great Crusades, Huguenot Wars, Salem Witch trials etc. These combined killed millions.
The League of Militant Atheists" was a non violent group. This is what historians called it in their own words.

Why are the lying so hard? The League of Militant Atheists was a violent group that murdered religious people, priests and clergy. This is well documented.

The Crusades were a series of defensive wars against the colonial expansion of the Ottoman Empire.

The Salam Witch Trials and Huguenot wars did not kill millions. State atheism killed millions though.

jaephoenix:
Served as a bureaucratic mechanism for the Party, rather than a truly powerful grassroots movement, despite its intimidating name.
North Korea doesn't execute religious folks. What they do is suppress and regulate religion but not execute them.
So no,Mr liar I don't know if Jesus told you guys to go ye into the world and spread falsehood but everything I have been reading from christians these days are well scripted lies

No, The League of Militant Atheists killed religious people, helped by the atheist government. This is documented even on Wikipedia with sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists

"The League of Militant Atheists aided the Soviet government in killing clergy and committed believers.[65] The League also made it a priority to remove religious icons from the homes of believers.[66] Under the slogan, "the Storming of Heaven," the League of Militant Atheists pressed for "resolute action against religious peasants" leading to the mass arrest and exile of many believers, especially village priests. By 1940, "over 100 bishops, tens of thousands of Orthodox clergy, and thousands of monks and lay believers had been killed or had died in Soviet prisons and the Gulag."

Sources: Peter N. Stearns. The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern World. Oxford University Press, 2008, p. 278.

Theodore R. Weeks. Across the Revolutionary Divide: Russia and the USSR, 1861-1945. John Wiley & Sons, 2011

North Korea kills its own citizens as well as religious folk. This is well documented by intelligence agencies and defectors. So Mr Liar, why are you lying on behalf of atheism? If atheism was a logical position, why do you feel the need to spread misinformation, falsehoods and engage in history revisionism? All you atheists do is lie and deny history.

Clearly you're not very confident in the worldview if you have to lie this hard and ignore history, academic sources including the one the OP provided concerning the Encyclopedia of Wars which show the majority of wars throughout history have been entirely secular.

jaephoenix:
Not only did atheists not say this,but it's what theists actually claim. Where did god come from? Nothing. Where did the universe come from? Nothing! How did it come? God snapped his fingers Thanos-esque and boom,everything popped out.
So bro,the jokes on you.
What we atheists say is we don't know how we came about,and that is the scientific stance

So Lawrence Krauss, Richard Dawkins and all the waves of New Atheists who claim the universe came from literal nothingness don't exist?

No theist claims God came from nothing. Theists say God is eternal. Theists will tell you God created the universe from his own essence.

Atheists say the universe magically came from nothingness. How does nothing do something? By definition it does nothing. LMAO

If you're saying "I don't know" then you should stop identifying as an atheist and arguing against the idea of a prime mover. The scientific stance doesn't rule out a god. If you're admitting that, you should identify as agnostic.

jaephoenix:
Just like the christians I know,you are clearly iggnraunt about history.
I'm sure you haven't heard of the Great Crusades, Huguenot Wars, Salem Witch trials etc. These combined killed millions.
The League of Militant Atheists" was a non violent group. This is what historians called it in their own words.

Why are the lying so hard? The League of Militant Atheists was a violent group that murdered religious people, priests and clergy. This is well documented.

The Crusades were a series of defensive wars against the colonial expansion of the Ottoman Empire.

The Salam Witch Trials and Huguenot wars did not kill millions. State atheism killed millions though.

jaephoenix:
Served as a bureaucratic mechanism for the Party, rather than a truly powerful grassroots movement, despite its intimidating name.
North Korea doesn't execute religious folks. What they do is suppress and regulate religion but not execute them.
So no,Mr liar I don't know if Jesus told you guys to go ye into the world and spread falsehood but everything I have been reading from christians these days are well scripted lies

No, The League of Militant Atheists killed religious people, helped by the atheist government. This is documented even on Wikipedia with sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists

"The League of Militant Atheists aided the Soviet government in killing clergy and committed believers.[65] The League also made it a priority to remove religious icons from the homes of believers.[66] Under the slogan, "the Storming of Heaven," the League of Militant Atheists pressed for "resolute action against religious peasants" leading to the mass arrest and exile of many believers, especially village priests. By 1940, "over 100 bishops, tens of thousands of Orthodox clergy, and thousands of monks and lay believers had been killed or had died in Soviet prisons and the Gulag."

Sources: Peter N. Stearns. The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern World. Oxford University Press, 2008, p. 278.

Theodore R. Weeks. Across the Revolutionary Divide: Russia and the USSR, 1861-1945. John Wiley & Sons, 2011

North Korea kills its own citizens as well as religious folk. This is well documented by intelligence agencies and defectors. So Mr Liar, why are you lying on behalf of atheism? If atheism was a logical position, why do you feel the need to spread misinformation, falsehoods and engage in history revisionism? All you atheists do is lie and deny history.

People literally get publically executed if they're caught leaving your atheist hellhole of North Korea:

https://www.rfa.org/english/korea/2025/03/10/north-korea-attempted-escape-public-execution/

Clearly you're not very confident in the worldview if you have to lie this hard and ignore history, academic sources including the one the OP provided concerning the Encyclopedia of Wars which show the majority of wars throughout history have been entirely secular.

jaephoenix:
Christians wake us up with Morning cries and preaching. They knock on our doors to preach. As you go out to work,they stick flyers and tracts into your car doors and windshields,and stick tracts into your face. While driving,they block the road for crusades and do crowd evangelism with loud music disturbing everyone. Then you switch on your radio and tv,there they are with preachings. Oh,and then go to the web to check what's going on,and more preachings are going . And they make laws to dictate to others what they should do with their own bodies.
PLEASE WHICH OF THESE ACTIVITIES ARE CONDUCTED BY ATHEISTS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD? I NEED YOU TO ANSWER,MR LIAR

This is what I see with atheists. Atheist billboards throughout the globe. Look at America, where the group known as "American Atheists" hire billboards to promote atheism. Throughout Europe it's the same. On TV in movies and TV shows, here on this forum, on YouTube, on Facebook and in discussion pages solely for Christians, atheists will enter just to insult Christians and preach atheism.

Once again, you are lying for atheism.

jaephoenix:
As in eh,the accusations are getting tiring. Everywhere I go, Christians are just peddling lies against atheists

Christians tell the truth about atheists. Atheists on the other hand can only lie. I proved it with the refutation of your claim that North Korea doesn't kill people and that The League of Militant Atheists was a "peaceful organisation." You atheists are just a joke.

LordReed:
LoLz. Says the one who says the BB is the beginning of the universe. Educate yourself properly before you come in here with half baked jibber jabber.

Lol says the one who couldn't even read what I said. I said The Big Bang Theory only explains what happened AFTER the universe began and it's evidence of the fact that the universe had a beginning, not that it's the beginning of the universe.

How about you learn some reading literacy and educate yourself more? Clearly you aren't capable of intellectual discussion if you fail reading comprehension so badly.

I also notice you can't address anything. As expected based on all your mumbo jumbo across this entire forum.

hopefulLandlord:
This is not true, atheism never made any claims about how the universe came to be. Atheists admit ignorance about this. It's theists especially Christians like you that conjured up a powerful entity claiming he created it yet can't explain where this entity came from

Except atheists like you do make claims all the time. You have conjured up the concept of a "nothingness" that apparently can produce universes but you can't explain how nothing can do something in the first place.

The concept of God is already answered by the Prime Mover argument which says that God is eternal so Christians have already given you an answer.

hopefulLandlord:
There have been lots of devastating wars that were fought with religious reasons. There's always some conflict in the world with religion being the crux of the matter

OP literally gave you a source showing that most of the devastating wars throughout history have been secular and still you try to blame religion. Atheism itself has killed more than religion. This continues today with the atheist states of China and North Korea killing religious people or persecuting them because they practice religion. The Soviet Union killed millions and it was an atheist state. It also killed people literally in the name of atheism via its "League of Militant Atheists" organisations.

hopefulLandlord:
there may be a handful of atheists who do this but they pale in comparison to Christians who do the same.

Not true, the majority of atheists are constantly shoving their beliefs upon everyone whether it be atheism itself or the many secular ideologies they believe in such as transgender and non binary nonsense. This is especially common amongst atheists in the West.

LordReed:
This one is looking for who to argue with. LMAO!

There's not really much to argue about with atheists. "Debating" atheists is like educating children. LMAO

Hohenheim:
And Christians be like "I clearly don't know the difference between atheists and scientists"
Better go and collect your school fees back.

It sounds like you atheists don't even go to school letalone university. Nobody here is confusing scientists with atheists. Scientists do not make the claims of atheists, in fact scientists are often the ones refuting atheist claims.

The only "scientists" to have argued in favour of a universe from nothing are all fringe and psuedo-scientists who have all been refuted. The fringe atheist scientist Lawrence Krauss and his book "A Universe from Nothing" was rejected by actual scientists including the physicist George Ellis who described it as nothing more than bad philosophy and fantasy.

This is because there's no evidence of a universe from nothing. The Big Bang Theory doesn't show a universe from nothing, it simply explains what happened after the moments that the universe begun.

Better go back to school yourself.

Lawag3:
Apart from that We both believe something can come out of nothing 😁 God created the world from nothing. To atheist the big bang came from nothing but created everything.
P.s Unlike what you think God didn't exist out of nothing.

LordReed:
I don't believe such a thing. Which atheist told you big bang came from nothing?

Lawag3:
So what the big bang came from ?

LordReed:
Unknown.

The Big Bang doesn't explain how the universe begun. It only shows that the universe had a beginning which is what we theists have been saying from the beginning.

The Big Bang Theory was actually proposed by the Catholic priest and scientist Georges Lemaître and was originally rejected by many atheists such as Fred Hoyle who argued that it "brought religious implications into physics by showing a beginning to the universe and therefore implying a creator."

Hoyle was right. The beginning of the universe does point to a creator as all things with a beginning need a cause.

It's funny LordReed says he doesn't believe matter, space and time came from nothing as all atheists do. He argues saying "unknown" in which case that makes him agnostic instead.

Unknown can only be two things: something or nothing. It's that simple. And well nothing does nothing and is by the very definition incapable of doing anything. So that means the universe can only come from something.

This universe coming from another and so on for infinity avoids the question. An infinite chain regression of universes without beginning would mean nothing should exist so ultimately there still had to be a first universe.

The idea of a eternal lifeless energy also doesn't answer anything. It's something but if it's lifeless, how can it produce the universe and the very laws of science which govern our universe? These very things came into existence with our universe so a lifeless energy wouldn't have any motion or the ability to do anything, since following the argument, the laws of science wouldn't have existed. It's like expecting a rock to move by itself without any outside influence, it's not going to happen.

This is why the idea of an eternal conscious energy aka God has always remained the logical position and philosophically sound because not only does it explains everything better, it adheres to logic unlike the naturalistic atheist worldview.

We also have the fine tuning of our universe which is something that is recognised by all scientists. Two examples below:

"N, the ratio of the electromagnetic force to the gravitational force between a pair of protons, is approximately 1036. According to Rees, if it were significantly smaller, only a small and short-lived universe could exist. If it were large enough, they would repel them so violently that larger atoms would never be generated."

"Epsilon (ε), a measure of the nuclear efficiency of fusion from hydrogen to helium, is 0.007: when four nucleons fuse into helium, 0.007 (0.7%) of their mass is converted to energy. The value of ε is in part determined by the strength of the strong nuclear force. If ε were 0.006, a proton could not bond to a neutron, and only hydrogen could exist, and complex chemistry would be impossible. If it were above 0.008, no hydrogen would exist, as all the hydrogen would have been fused shortly after the Big Bang."

You can look up on science sites for more examples but things like this show conscious intelligence rather than happenstance from a something that shouldn't be able to do anything.

Atheism is ultimately a dead end philosophically and intellectually. If you are arguing that consciousness can come from random chance or nothingness, then you can't rule out the idea of a conscious entity that exists beyond the universe in any case. According to atheist naturalism, such a thing is a possibility.

You see, if atheists could actually think logically, they'd realise that and how atheist arguments always work against atheism itself.