₦airaland Forum

Wait ooo na draw we draw or abi na lose wey we lose. I confuse ooo.

ILLICITblood:
it's another one my people

FLUENT FC

Thunder go fire you.

I dey iron my agbada for tomorrow party for una thread. Wolves go show una shege for molineux

I believe Lampard will eventually implement his system fully and succeed. The objective this season is for the team to play fluent attacking football and most importantly, establish our youth players as fully fledged players. Any other success will be a bonus this season.

I'm confident we'll win today, although the clean sheet might evade us because of the unstable defense. But we have enough to score multiple goals.

nateevs:
Interesting discussion. Great to see in-depth discussions without insults being thrown around.

Both sides make good points.

When civil men discuss, decorum should usually be expected, there is no need to throw insults when exchanging opposing ideas.

However, you should not be surprised when the odd arrogant buffoon decides that his view is superior and pulls you in towards an inevitable slug or fight because he believes that the only way to keep up an image on a faceless forum is by e-fights.

Biggieboy:
This foundation and framework argument has gone beyond nairaland o

Man utd legend Paul Once believes Ole Gunnar Soljskaer is using Klopp's framework at Man utd
@ donjazet Kimbeast, wots ur take on this?
?

Nobody is saying Lampard is copying or replicating Sarri.
We're saying that RIGHT NOW, at this very moment, one can still see Sarri's impact on the team. Stop misunderstanding the point.

popizaino:
What higher experience does a coach of Barcelona division 2 side have above a first team coach of Derby or what higher experience does a mere assistant have above a first team coach?

Well, the truth is lampard has done pretty well above your expectations so it seems like something so impossible that you feel it should be down to someone.

I don't know why you would feel I don't like Lampard. I LOVE Lampard's appointment as our coach but I'm managing my expectations while at the same time recognising and appreciating Sarri's positive effort in our team.

Listen, the most enthralling feature or joy of football between fans has always been the divergent views and opinions of we the fans.

We will always agree or disagree on facets of the game without any determinate judge so I don't blame you or expect you to agree with me but I do believe that Sarri's impact can still be felt in our current gameplay.

Abeg make person tell me, wetin be "Lampard ball"?

diggz:
Bricklayer sarri

You no been like am when we sign am?

The 4-3-3 formation has always been around in football but sarrismo has always been defined as a unique brand of 4-3-3.

The same individual right now who is making it seem like all 433s are the same Is the same one who was flooding this thread then with videos and infographics about the uniqueness of sarriball. Talk about double standing gents.

Lampard has had just ONE season under his belt. Just the ONE. That is vastly insufficient for anyone to define clearly his philosophy.

You guys keep mentioning derby. The season before Lampard, derby got 75 points, conceded 48 goals, scored 70 goals and finished 6th.

During Lampards tenure, the team got 74 points, conceded 58 Goals, scored 69 goals and finished 6th.

You can clearly see that there was virtually no difference between both teams.

You guys are clearly letting sentiments cloud your judgement.

I do hope and believe that he would go on to be successful for us but the truth is that right now, nobody can clearly define his philosophy and tactics as a coach.
You could even say that he's still experimenting his methods and therefore surmise that at this point he has met a good platform upon which to be successful.

Propaganda

Greatihex:
[b]you only copy what you cannot produce yourself. [/b]Lampard cannot be copying sarri when he was already doing his thing at Derby.

You can't say you don't know how Lampard likes to train and setup his team if you watched his Derby team

That is a very illogical statement.

You might know something but not be as good as someone else and IMPROVE from the person.

However, I'm not saying Lampard copied Sarri, that's your misunderstanding.
I'm saying Sarri's platform has helped Lampard and made it easier for him.

Biggieboy:
If u said Sarri's philosophy made it easier for the team to adapt to Lampard's philosophy then I might be able to agree with u to an extent, but saying Lampard INHERITED Sarri's tactic is 100% wrong.

@ the bolded, but that is EXACTLY what I'm saying.

That summarises my point.
Sarri's Philosophy made it easier for the team to adapt to Lampard.
That is my point.

airmark:
It's shocking to say the least. All successors must thank their predecessors if they don't overhaul the team.

It's not shocking as you've claimed, it's logical.

Don't we credit Mourinho for other managers success after his first stint with us?

Avram grant took Chelsea to a Champions League final, who did you credit that success to? Mourinho or grant?
Hiddinks FA cup triumph, who did you credit that success to? him or Mourinho?

You make it sound illogical to give credit where due.
I am not saying that Lampard hasn't done anything yet but facets of the team bears Sarri's hallmarks.

Greatihex:
i think you are getting confused.

Sarri's undoing has nothing to do with 1 touch passing, it had Everything to do with not being direct in his play.

Lampard did not copy anything from sarri. He only benefitted from Sarri's work in the sense that he does not need to do much work on bringing the players up to speed on the quick passing, pressing and playing out from the back

You contradict yourself and you call another person confused?

Answer this question honestly, before Sarri, was Chelsea known to be a high pressing team or a good passing team?
Did Sarri's method not make us more comfortable on the ball?
We didn't have goal scoring midfielders and that was one of our problems, do you know if that has been rectified yet?

We all hope that Lampard succeeds but there are not enough parameters yet to know exactly what his system is.

airmark:
Thats a very wrong assumption. He inherited nadda from Sarri system as i explained earlier, Jorginho no more our only link to attack. We now play more forward passes, which make our game more direct. All these he did at Derby, without Sarri being his predecessor there.

Kante was a box to box player, that was also explosive for Leicester that year. So Sarri wasn't the one that taught him that, in fact he underperformed under him.

If Tomori and Mount could do well under Lampard last season, i will rather believe he's the one improving Emerson and co this season and not Sarri.

Airmark, be honest, Kante has been known primarily for his tough tackling and very hardworking ethics, never has he been famed for his technicalities and creativity which we are beginning to see.
We scorned Sarri for playing Kante further forward because we knew his strength lay basically in front of the defense but that has inadvertently led to his development as a creative midfielder.
Against Liverpool, Kante was clearly the most advanced of the midfielders in terms of position while Kovacic and jorginho lay at the base.

When you say jorginho was the only link to our attack, you sound like that was the only problem we had with Sarri's tactics.
You conveniently leave out where a lot of us were pointing out the fact that hazards ball hugging was incompatible with the one touch passing and sleek off the ball movement we can see now. You also forget that Kante was learning the new role in which Sarri had thrust him into etc.

I continue to say that Sarri's tenure was clearly a learning curve for the team with positives and negatives ant to totally discredit those positives is unfair.

And more so we STILL can't define for certain what "Lampard's football" is.
It's still early to say if it's working or not. Certainly we wouldn't want to be in a situation where there is no good balance between the attack and defense.

Am I the only one finding it very difficult to post this afternoon? Person gats try like 5 times before successfully posting?

And how any human being with a brain would watch only two matches in a season and genuinely think that there is no input whatsoever from the previous coach bewilders me.

It portrays a myopic view of football.

Biggieboy:
U still did not answer my question, how long did it take the team to adapt from 4 at the back to Conte's 3 at the back philosophy?

Lampard also used his predecessor's framework at Derby

Would u agree Guardiola used Pellegrini's framework since Pellegrini was also attack minded?

I'm pointing out to you that Lampard did not carry out a revolution at derby like you would like to postulate, goals scored and conceded were very much alike before and during his tenure, like wise the position.

It took Guardiola one full year for his team to fully implement his philosophy. Don't forget he went trophyless.

It took Conte about 5-6 months with the team before he started using the 3 at the back formation. Don't make it appear like that was his immediate formation. He experimented different systems before that.

And I point out again that various factors aided Conte, the formation took teams unaware, the lack of European football and an experienced team.

Biggieboy:
Which system did he inherit when he was at Derby?

U guys should calm down with this ur propaganda abeg.
When Chelsea hired Conte and when the results where not going his way witu 4 at the back, how long did it take Chelsea to understand his 3 at the back tactics/philosophy. I remember

These guys have been training and learning lampard's tactics/philosophy for close to two months now, so attributing Lampard's effort to Sarri is totally wrong.

If u said Sarri's philosophy made it easier for the team to adapt to Lampard's philosophy then I might be able to agree with u to an extent, but saying Lampard INHERITED Sarri's tactic is 100% wrong.

Have you actually looked at Derby's results before Lampard's arrival? They finished top7 before he arrived, so he more or less made minor tweaks to their system, his major achievement was reducing the average squad age of the team.

Conte's system worked primarily because of the element of surprise, the formation had never worked in England before then and many teams found it difficult to adapt to the system earlier and don't forget we had an advantage over our rivals with the lack of European football giving us long days of rest between games.
Conte's system imploded the minute other teams adapted to the formation.

I'm not saying that everything we've seen so far is down to Sarri's system but the basics have aided Lampard tremendously in impacting his system.

Kimbeast:
Well said bro. That's why IMO our best line up against teams where we'll have the lion share of the possession and when we'll have the impetus to break their defence down we're better off having a creative player in midfield that's why mount-jorgi-kante is the best option in midfield
We need someone in our midfield who can score and assist, or break a bus with a pass or a strike from range, Kova can’t, Mount can, against the top 6, especially City and Liverpool then sure Kova-Jorgi-Kante, against the majority of teams in the league Mount-Jorgi-Kante should do it.

I agree with the bolded, one of our most prominent problems with Sarri's system was the lack of a goal scoring midfielder. Kante, Kovacic and jorginho didn't have goals in them or shot power.
There were lots of times last season where a midfielder would have clear sight of goal and instead of shooting would look sideways for the pass. I hope our midfielders really improve on that.

airmark:
If you gain say #50 and lose #50, your business will soon shut down. There must be more positives than negs in everything we do. We are already seeing more positives than negs with Lampard, despite the constraints.

We saw Derby vs Man utd and Chelsea last season, so nobody should tell us Sarri system aids Lampard's. Without Sarri here last season, Lampard would implement his system. Our back four has virtually changed.

Airmark, I don't think we've seen enough games yet to judge Lampard's football.

Clearly we can see its attack-oriented, however we can't tell his preferred formation or starting eleven or his preferred tactical subs so it's fair to assume that aspects of the game play we see now are factors INHERITED from Sarri's system.

Kante has been injured since the end of last season barely training during that time frame, do you genuinely believe that what we saw Kante do the last match was as a result of Lampard's management or technical acuity

It's very reasonable to surmise that our players still display the fundamentals of Sarri's system.

We seem to all forget something very important here.

We're just 2 games into Lampard's tenure and the two opponents we have faced are teams who played very open games, teams who did not just sit back, soak up pressure and hit on the counter, these were big teams who came out to attack there by giving our attackers spaces to run into.

Cast your minds back to previous seasons, we started very well under Sarri, I remember when we played arsenal at home, how everyone raved about the potentials of greatness and bright future the team had. We even went on a decent run of wins.

Our problems appeared when we encountered teams who simply sat back leaving no space behind for attackers to run into.

Don't also forget that AVB'S tenure and scholari's tenure were off to a flying start before the implosions.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have good expectations, but if history is a good indicator, we MUST be cautiously optimistic, and remember that this team has a lot of limitations and inhibitions.

Lampard is fairly new to management, his experience as a manager is very low, before Guardiola, zidane or OGS took reins at their clubs, they already had managerial experiences at various levels. Our defense is as porous and inexperienced as ever.

We have to be cautious in our expectations, only time will tell.

Greatihex:
corrected. sarri was more about having the ball, but there was no quick transition to attack. he just wanted his team to move grdually from defence to attack with short passes even when there is an opportunity to go direct. the team did not fully play the way he wanted, because the winners in the team refused to play the way he wanted because they know that it will only end up being like van gaal team

Yes, I've also pointed out earlier that his undoing at Chelsea was his inflexibility, however his attacking/possession based tactics had already taken hold, we dominated games because our midfielders became adept at possessing the ball better, unlike previous years where we had to absorb pressure and always go long and direct via a counter.

You have to realize how ridiculous it sounds to say Sarri did absolutely nothing positive in his short stint with us. That's a fallacy, there were positives and negatives in equal measure.

airmark:
Foundation ko lintel ni.
I was happy that they sacked that smoker. He almost killed us with his mumu decisions.

I really don't get you, you seem to let your dislike for Sarri cloud your judgement.

Yes, Sarri had flaws, primarily being tactically inflexible, however there were good positives from his tenure, his basic ideology was attacking football and to an extent he drilled the basics and fundamentals of his system into the team.

Saying that what we saw yesterday was all down to Lampard's methods is untrue and downright ridiculous.

Lampard has tweaked minor aspects of sarrisimo but the foundation is undeniable.
lack of acknowledgement of Sarri's positive influence on the team is unjust and shortsighted.

thorrvik55:
Is it ur positives?

I no just understand Wetin dey give arsenal fans mouth. That fan group continue to bewilder me, Every new season, you see them feeling confident only for their team to serve them normal shit_ , then you hear their wailings, many go on exile till the end of season, return the beginning of the next season with renewed hope and the cycle of continues.

popizaino:
Whatever we are playing now as nothing to do with Sarri Abeg. Frank lampard alone deserve the credit.

You're very mistaken, I believe it does.

Sarri introduced the concept of pressing from the front and being comfortable on the ball.

Those linkup plays and quick interchanges with slick movements we saw yesterday were all introduced by him.

Before Sarri, our primary method of play was to absorb pressure from the opponent and counter with either hazard or Willian or a long pass from fabregas to our striker. With Morata, we would just go to the wing and whip in a cross for him to nod.

Major caveats of our gameplay now was definitely introduced by Sarri.
Don't forget that Lampard is largely inexperienced and is also on an upward mobile learning curve, I believe he and the team has that potential for greatness but to discredit Sarri's impact on our team would be unfair.

Roland17:
But! But!! He won you guys the equalizing penarity?

He really needs to beef up and also be a sharp shooter. A striker who is neither a target man or a poacher is useless. His positioning and accuracy is very abysmal. We need a striker.

Tammy should be kicked out of the team.

Penarity

Pedro has been good today. His footwork, one touch passing and linkup play has been good.