₦airaland Forum

raumdeuter:
If we are comparing Thiago to another Brazilian CB that's found wanting then we can use CL

“Found wanting” should be applied when a DM in his prime lose 4 goals to fragile ninnies.

raumdeuter:
Or we can talk about a perpetual benchwarmer

Like his Dortmund days

Joezinho:
Lol. They were no ninnies bro. The bulk of the squad won the euros in 1992.

They had Schiemechel,Brian Laudrup, Michael Laudrup, Ebber Sand,Helveg and others..

And it was widely rumoured and also confirmed by Taribo west that the primary reason they lost to Denmark was because the players snucked women into their camp the night before their game against Denmark, and that was to blame for their lacklustre display.

Denmark didn’t have any world class player then aside that ManU keeper. Stop listing unnecessary names to protect that failure. There was a reason most of us here in Nigeria didn’t rate them, but were busy talking about how to beat Brazil before Oliseh caused us 4 goals humiliations.

He failed against Denmark’s Jorginho kind of midfielders, got out played, bullied and disgraced all round at his prime.

A big failure, he is. Someone that was supposed to protect his team.

My Legend can’t drink 4 goals in such manner.

raumdeuter:
Show me a world cup game that Mikel won vs a top opponent like Oliseh did vs Spain

I can show you Mikel losing to ordinary Ghana by 4-1 though not even Denmark or Confed cup losing 3-0 to Spain which Oliseh team beat

Mikel won Afcon, UCL, Europa, and EPL.

He was a first runner up for African best player, something Oliseh never did.

Shall we talk about the failed player who lost his career immediately he clicked 30?

raumdeuter:
Is this UCL for Nigeria?

How well did you remember this point when Thiago wasn’t a UCL winner?

Or is your metric to judge failed player selective?

Mikel completed football, what did Hoe-Lisa do?

Joezinho:
Did you watch Mikel against France at the second round game of the 2014 W/C in Brazil? After Blaise Matuidi gave Onazi the horror tackle that saw him taken off the pitch what did Mikel do? How superb was Mikel? The midfield collapsed immediately Onazi was stretched off the pitch..

Go and watch that match again and see how Yohan Cabaye, Matuidi and Pogba dragged and humiliated Mikel Obi..

Onazi held that midfield untl Matuidi tactically fouled him.. Even world best Yobo scored an own goal .

Bro show me a match Mikel lost 4-1 with Nigeria against ninnies like Denmark on the biggest stage.

Hoe-Lisa got embarrassed, ran over, disgraced and humiliated by fragile midfielders at his prime. What more can be more humiliating than that?

raumdeuter:
Which world cup 2nd round should we use for Mikel? So that we can compare 2nd round to 2nd round

Use UCL finals for Mikel against Bayern at their backyard.

raumdeuter:
Yes I watched that match, That was a world cup second round. Like we also made second round in 1994. Oliseh went to 2 world cups made second round twice.

Tell us how many world cups Mikel went to and how many 2nd rounds he made

Why are you running from his performance against Denmark?

raumdeuter:
Oliseh is hyped for delivering stellar performances for the National team from the DM position. An example was when he came off the bench to deliver a win in a nation's cut semi when the team was struggling

It's not just about playing next day but delivering a crucial win

Did you watch Olishe against Denmark in 98?

I mean the match that had us planning how to beat Brazil even without disqualifying Denmark?

How superb was Oliseh? Should we proceed to talk about how he was uselessly dragged and embarrassed in that midfield? Make we dey fear God abeg.

Mikel>>>>

raumdeuter:
He gets credit for being an outstanding DM in his career for club and country. Whether at 19 or at 59

Nigeria Ghana 2000. Oliseh was having malaria they called him from the bench to send that assist that won us the game. These are moments football fans remember not those 50 pass and return to the central defender

Oh! Malaria?

When slandering Lampard, did you agree with Ibime when he used “Lampard playing the next day after losing his mum”?

Why must Oliseh who’s clearly beneath Mikel in all aspect of football be hyped with things we don’t agree when other players are defended with them?

raumdeuter:
Yes and for obvious reasons Oliseh probably removed like 8yrs from his age. The maturity which he played when he came on the scene was beyond a 19yr old which he claimed. Oliseh came and within months became a 1st team DM for the Eagles So at 31 he was really close to 40

Yet he gets credit for being outstanding at 19.

Romans Abra who was very ruthless with sacking managers and caring enough to make good transfers didn’t even dominate EPL that much. Won it 5 times in 18 years or so, e come be Bole wey no know en left from the right.

I’ve accepted the fact that we’re finished and in a for a long ride, especially with a clueless manager who’s not adventurous enough to adjust and accommodate high profile players who aren’t 100% suiting his style of play.

Na only FA Cup, Carabo and UCL we go dey look forward to every season. As for EPL? Lmao!

BlueAngel444:
how that one take matter na, the fact you care about what is written in a third position EPL the says a lot

Go create thread for Sevilla or ATM or Dortmund na,make we see how far market go go

You’re not making any sense.

eitsei:
no metrics just bias and nostalgia

Obviously

BlueAngel444:
Lol people should stop fearing EpL will still be EPL, city go still loss matches
UCL still no sure am

Tottenham have Conte, still have Kane,Son, that loaned RW and Bissouma, couple and nice additions to a good team

Arsenal dey add self, dey improve

United shouldnt be written out, ten ten is coming, c Ronaldo still dey, with black Ronaldo n co


This is EPL

Don’t you think we should accept the truth that “This is EPL” don cast?

City won 4 EPL in 5 years and you still talk about “This is EPL”? And they’re still bagging the best players as new signing ahead of next season.

The best way to deal with realities is by accepting it first. There was a reason 90% of English media and pundits were supporting Liverpool to win the League last season, a reason why Klop won manger of the season when he didn’t win the league, he won manager of the season when ManU spent more days than him on first position. They’ve accepted that City has dominated fully, so they’re pained and looking for a way to change that.

Relax! Aside Bundesliga, EPL has been the only farmer’s league in Europe for the last 5 seasons a tie with Ligue1 with same club winning the 4 in 5.

Itsrm:
Assuming what you're saying is true, did they play only one Afcon throughout his NT career?

Use the truth to counter any of my “untrue” statement.

Itsrm:
I also did not watch Oliseh neither did I watch Mikel. Super eagles matches up till this day don't interest me.

However, one thing I remember vividly well was that, everytime Mikel played for the NT, people always cursed him.

They were always blaming Mourinho for destroying his career by converting him to a DM.

If Mikel ever did anything worthwhile in his career, it was under RDM. In the national team, safe to say that he was a disaster.

We’ve see how far Super Eagles have gone since his retirement.

His performance as a midfielder in Afcon 2013 remain the best by any Nigerian midfielder ever. The stats are out there, from stats in the tournament, to recognitions after the tournament, including winning the tournament.

But he was a disaster.

hensben:
E come be like say na Michael Phelps stats I Dey read.

That’s what happens even you try to make case for a failed footballer with overhyped fluke long shot against Spain in 1998.

Joezinho:
Which metrics do you want? Trophies won? That is a collective team effort..

Or you want to use UCL to measure?

Trophies
Achievements
Success
Individual awards and recognitions
European, league and national recognition and achievements.

Mikel will top Oliseh in all.

These are metric to rate players. Anything aside these things comes from a place of sentiment and that’s fact.

Joezinho:
* Who is the better athlete? Oliseh..
* Better leader on the field? I will say Oliseh again, he just brings so much physicality and energy...
* Better passer? Tie here with slight edge to Mikel.
* Better shooter? Oliseh..
* Better dribbler? Mikel...
* Prototype midfield physique? Oliseh..
* Better ball skill? Oliseh..
* Better sprinter/cover space on the field? Oliseh..
* Someone that can carry a team down on his shoulder? Mikel...
* Better offensive threat? Oliseh..
* Pound for pound better footballer in a heated contest? Tie.
* Better header of the ball? Tie..

I give the edge to Oliseh..

Guy wetin be this?

Can’t you see you’re finding difficult to make case for Oliseh here?

So if asked about Gerard and Rooney, na these things you go pull out? What do you people gain running from the truth? Just look at what you’re listing?

Which one be “Best sprinter”?

hensben:
They are still in that early 2000s euphoria of Arsenal is better than Chelsea so anything from Chelsea is inferior whether good or not but reality have left them behind.

Just wait for another day when Chelsea player or legend gets compared to other player, wait and watch how they’ll jump and start crying.



Reality and facts>>>>

Joezinho:
Baba calm down. Oliseh is miles ahead of Mikel. Did you watch Oliseh play? Lol..

Can Mikel ball in Oliseh's era? I doubt it with the yam legs they all have back then...

Bro what proof do you have that Mikel isn’t bigger, better and greater than Oliseh?

What are your points and metrics?

timbros:
Lol this this CAF TOTT in 1994. What are you saying?

So Hoe-Lisa no even make the list?

andrewbaba44:
Na only that year una wan use against mikel ?

Do you want to see how Olise was chopping bench at the 2001-2002 season at Dortmund ,where is started only 11 league games ,na this player better pass mikel in what aspect ?

What about 2002-2003 season where Olise was not making match day squad in numerous occasions before he was shipped to an ekuke Bochum on Loan ,na this player better pass mikel ?

Failed at juventus and not a regular at BVB ?

Man was sacked by Dortmund because of poor performance and fighting with a teammate

Person wey no get level.

timbros:
Skimpledawg Unlimited22 donstan18

Rivers United don win league with 4 matches to spare. Who go attend the next home match to see the Cup?

They are playing Nassarawa away today.

As Enyimba fan, I dey vex but I go still go the next home game sha.

For real? Are they that good?

Time and venue? Make I know if I go fit meet up.

princeabdul:
why will anyone even stoop so low to compare oliseh with Mike isn't that an abomination?? Stats or no stats Mikel is Nigeria most decorated and greatest player ever, it's not even debatable.

Sentiment.

Sadly, sentiment can’t beat fact and realities.

Ibime:
You are being foolish and arguing for argument sake.

There is a reason Whoscored do not provide stats before 2009 and that's because data has become reliable as we make advancements in time.

Mikel starting only 10 games in 2013 is a fact as is all the data collected over Jorginhos career and I can quote them anywhere.

You cannot pull Wikipedia and tell me Oliseh only made two assists in AFCON 2014 when your eyes can see four clean ones. Some of those sites will even tell you data before a certain time may or may not be reliable. Opta was only founded in 1996 for example, long after this AFCON and probably didn't come to consencus and trustworthiness until deep into the internet era. Data those days relies on a journalist at the ground maybe sending a Teletext to BBC. And that's one the problem foolish young people make when comparing players from different eras by looking at Wikipedia, stats or awards.

It doesn't matter whether you call it 4 or 5 assists. I added the penalty assist and the preassist to show his influence. Anyone who watched the Ivory Coast game will understand the importance of that preassist because Ivory Coast were giving us hot and that goal made the score 2-2, after which we went on to win on penalties. All these attempts at distraction won't take away from the fact the Slowbie escort has never played a tournament for Super Eagles remotely comparable to this.

Any sincere person will agree that I’m the one dropping facts here and you’re being sentimental.

One thing you failed to understand is that you liking Hoe-Lisa over Legend Mikel doesn’t change the fact that Mikel is bigger, better and greater.

Incase you don’t get my point, you liking Hojberg doesn’t mean Busquet and Jorginho aren’t bigger and greater footballers, you dig?

It’s a fact that your sentiment will never ever change, you just have to admit that.

Since we started this argument, your point has been “I watched Hoe-Lisa and won’t do Wikipedia type of shiit”. Football don’t work that way, you must always and always understand that even someone that started watching match during Pep Barcelona time can thoroughly school you on how Busquet is a better DM than Oliseh and win you hands down before the crowd, but you’ll pick Oliseh over Busquet, these are simple stuffs!

You don’t even know when I started watching football, you can’t even guess if asked.

Facts don’t lie, online stats exist for a reason, you use it a lot, that’s why you brought the videos to defend him, you dig online stats to backup arguments, but how you’re always quick to switch to “Eye test” when stats don’t suit your agenda needs to be studied.

I’ll said it again, there’s no metric you’ll use that Mikel won’t top Hoe-Lisa, absolutely none.

Individual awards
Individual stats
Trophies
Recognition
Achievements

Legend Mikel will top every football list ahead of Oliseh. Respect this Legend, his retirement is the reason we’ve been flopping since.

Ibime:
Your eyes can at least view 4 clean assists there plus one pass that led to a penalty. But as usual, you went to Wikipedia to tell you what your eyes can see korokoro, further outlining your foolishness of relying on Wikipedia to argue things you never saw. Which of the four incidents below are not clean assists by any standard?


https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/c9027578f1354a34bc388958e1070cf0.gif

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/72d3ec03d23d4595b3eae973ec54de8e.gif

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/fce00be1f1084c3aae71d3653b815081.gif

https://j.gifs.com/P7AnW6.gif

But you said he had 5 assists? Why 4 now?

And then, why is it always okay for you to bring stats from sites to troll Jorginho, but you fume when it’s used against your favorite players?

You also brought out stats to discredit Mikel’s game starting in 2013, now you don’t like Wiki stats again?

Stats said this, you initially said 5 assists. Who should we believe now?

Ibime:
For the record, the performance of Oliseh in AFCON 1994 tournament has never been matched before or since by any Nigerian midfielder. 5 assists in 5 games playing as a DM. Give-I-give escorts will never come close to this man who protects his defence with tenacity and speed, controls the game in midfield and supplies his strikers aplenty like Pirlo. This is all while playing DM. Anyone should show me a better tournament played by a Super Eagles midfielder ever. I will wait. What eyes have seen, Wikipedia will not tell you.


Final vs Zambia - winning assist

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/c9027578f1354a34bc388958e1070cf0.gif

Semifinal vs Ivory Coast - preassist for equalizer

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/c93edbd146144926b60842fd01c3a222.gif


Quarterfinal vs Zaire - two winning assists

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/72d3ec03d23d4595b3eae973ec54de8e.gif

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/e31b49cfd3aa4603a719d2f979277951.gif


Group stage vs Gabon - two winning assists

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/fce00be1f1084c3aae71d3653b815081.gif

https://j.gifs.com/P7AnW6.gif

Lmao! Which one be PK assist, Pre-assist and post-assist nh?

Ibime:
Fact remains most of his appearances in 2012/13 came in 2012 where he disgraced Chelsea out of the UCL and had us overran in midfield and slipped off the league.

Fact remains he was so useless as the only natural DM that Oriol Romeu a youth player was brought in to kick him away, and when Oriol Romeu got injured, managers made do with David Luiz in midfield or brought non-DMs in Ramires and Lampard to reprise the role. And everytime these managers went to beg for new DM, Emenalo shut them down to protect his brother, yet as the only DM in the squad, he still could not start more than 10 league games that calendar year, which is an utter disgrace.

Your 5 minutes cameo appearances at the end of the match won't help you escape the fact that Mikel Slowbie only started 10 league games in the Year of our Lord 2013, and won African 2nd best POTY as a POLLING BOOTH award for Sunday Mbas match winning performances in AFCON.

2011/2012, Mikel made 37 appearances, we both know what he did in they UCL.

While we count the 2012 he “Disgraced” Chelsea according to you, should we also count the fact the he won UCL in that 2012 by not getting carried?

I’ll say it again...

Individual awards, trophies, level of success, achievements and anything you can’t to use, Mike will top Hoe-Lisa.

There’s no rank or list that Mikel won’t come first before Hoe-Lisa.

These are facts. They’re clear, they’re out there, sentiment can’t change them.

Ibime:
Everybody knows that Benitez was in seat at Chelsea from late 2012 and saw out 2013 and Mourinho was in seat from August 2013 and both thoroughly hated Mikel. Mikel is even lucky that Oriol Romeu copped a knee ligament injury otherwise he wouldn't have made bench cos Benitez had already thrown him away for Romeu before that unfortunate injury allowed him to play here and there. Both these managers would rather play David Luiz in midfield than Mikel. This is the difference between those who know offhand and Wikipedia analysts.

Mikel Obi only started 10 league games in the year 2013. That was the year he placed second in African POTY. Prove me wrong.

Fact remains that he placed second in 2013 African Award and won 2013 Afcon with European trophy too.

Another fact remains that he made 38 appearances 2012/13 season and also made 36 appearances in 2013/14.

Bench warmers don’t make 74 appearances in 2 seasons for a club, winning National major trophy and European trophy.

Ibime:
Oliseh won his award by being integral to Ajax double, finishing 17 points above PSV and trashing the same PSV 5-0 in the cup final, and also for his world cup performance

For the record, Mikel Obi only started 10 league games for Chelsea in the whole year of 2013. Both Benitez and Mourinho didn't like him

Same 2013, he placed second in African POTY thanks to the performance of this Warri Wolves player that helped Nigeria win AFCON

That's the definition of a SENIOR MAN polling booth award like the ones Dani Alves still used to win 5 years after practical retirement

2012/13, Mikel Obi made 38 appearances for Chelsea.

Did well in Afcon and won it.

They robbed him that award.

Everyone knows this.