₦airaland Forum

Hi kunleosho:
Your feeling is reasonable but yu will need to be very careful not to throw away the baby with the bath water.
Christs disciples were called christian at antioch, not by Jesus Christ or fellow believers but by the unbelievers that observed them to be living like little christs.
Church was first mentioned by Jesus Christ and it has nothing to do with the buildings. Don't you worship God in your room (quiet time), on the road etc? The buildings are just accommodation for human beings that gathered together to shield them from rain and sunshine and possibly to secure their equipments like electronics, files etc.
You may quit going into the buildings but do not forsake the assembly of God's people (fellow believers).
'Upon this rock I build my church (not a denomination) and the gate of hell shall not prevail against it'. Have you ever identified the cathedral Jesus built? He was not talking about pilling bricks and blocks together neither did the Apostles.
The church are believers in a location no matter how scattered they are in the various groups called denominations. One Father, One Lord Jesus, One faith, One shepherd. Your faith and commitment is to God in Christ and not to any denomination. Do not let any body else discourage you from your relationship with God.

gen2genius:
I quite understood the point you raised. I did not intend to debate but give the right knowledge to those people asking some 'funny' questions. I had many friends that were once more sincere and overzealous than these ones. They are now believers in Christ jesus even one was preaching to me to be a good Christian after his conversion- because when we used to be in the same school, I was not Born again. I have made the Bible stand known to them and to many of those that use this site. i will still do same on other site if I found such questions.
They can only be saved if they are to be honest with themselves. No human arguement can save any man. My submission on this site is not intended to be an arguement. The Almighty God does not need my arguement to save anyone.

Muhsin;
Jesus Christ in the days of his flesh did not attempt to draw worship from 'God' to himself (in human form). However when using Bible passages it is good to compare all the passages regarding the same issues.
The word 'God' is not a name like yours or saying Paul, Yekinni etc. It is like saying, Human being (several human beings- white, black etc), Goat (several goats), Monkeys (several monkeys) etc. So we have 'gods' with their names as Sango, Ogun etc. But there is ONE God (not 3 Gods- as you misrepresent Trinity). We have One human- whoever have the attributes that make any one human is human no matter the colour of the skin.
So Jesus was human and so he spoke as a Human. However, referring to his pre human and post human existence, He is the Word and he manifested divine nature that made him God (completely different from the Father and the Holy Ghost- hence written as sitting on the right hand of the Father while the Holy Ghost is here with the Church till the end of the world). These three (Father, The Word- who incarnated as Jesus, and the Holy Ghost) are One God. This is the revelation of God in the Scripture. So if Allah is the name you call the Father, then Jesus christ is not Allah. If Allah is what you call God, then Jesus is also Allah. Read my previous answers for more info. Or read the Holy Bible. God did not reveal himself in the Koran.
The Allah revealed in the Koran is completely different from the God revealed in the Bible. Allah (in the Koran) declared he has no son, whereas the God (bible) has many sons and is willing to make many humans his sons; the Allah (Koran) say it was Ismael Abraham (Ibrahim) attempted to sacrifice, the God (bible) says it was Isaac; Allah say toget to heaven (aljana) depends on your works and other 5 pillars, the God (bible) say you are going to be saved by Grace, not of works (our righteousness is like a filthy rag before him, our good works will only be rewarded if we get to heaven never as the criteria for getting there- Iam the way, the truth and The Life, no man comes to the Father except by me- said Jesus), Allah said Jesu is not his son, but God (bible) said Jesu is his only begotten son., In Allah's heaven men will be rewarded with several virgins (what will women be rewarded with), but God said there is no marriage in heaven( men and women becomes like angels). Several differences that showed Koran and Bible are not describing the same person.
I am not trying to convince you that Jesus is Allah (he is different from Allah in the Koran) neither am I saying 'trinity is about Allah. Muslims and Christians may be said to be attempting to serve the same divine person, but this is WRONG. You need to choose which heaven you want and so between God and Allah.

Aremugangan:
The salvation message is very simple that a child should be able to literarily understand it and write an essay on it. God intended it to be so commonly understood and so it is translated to many languages. There could be some problem (not error) of translation but the Holy Bible has no ERROR as far as inspiration is concerned.
And it is not a single man write up or 'reveletion' like the Koran. In contrast the Holy Bible is a collection of books written by 40 authors of different level of education and civilisation, spanning a period of about 2000years.
God said out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses the truth shall be established. This disqualify the Koran from being accepted as a truthful revelation by any Godly person.

Abuzola:
Read over and over again my previous response to your questions. The answers from the bible are there. They may not be acceptable to you but that is the bible point of view.
Jesus suffered what he suffered because though he had a prehuman existence as the Word of God, yet he was fully human (like you and me ) in the days of his flesh. He had to be baptized in the Holy ghost like you can if you become born again, felt pain, hungry, tempted like you and I. He did not live in his divine nature while living a s a man in Palestine. He had emotions like us, went thru what we are going thru.
So don't mix up his human nature with his prehuman and post human nature. He is alive now and death has no power over him. There is no where, He (or even angels) could have died without becoming man.
'He took the form of man that he might taste death for everyman and through death destroy him that had the power of death (devil) and deliver them who thru the fear of death are subject to bondage'
You have the right to accept or not, but this is the scriptural revelation about the person and mission of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Abuzola:
It appeared you did not take time to understand all my explanations. In summary:
1. There is no word 'Trinity' in the Bible but the concept of trinity is contained in the Bible.
2. Jesus Christ was given that name in His existence as a human being. In his pre-human existence, he was the Word of God , after His ascension he still assumed his position as the Word of God but now with his name glorified.
3. God forgives everyone that meet the condition for forgiveness- repentance, forsaking those sins, accept the sacrifice for sins made available by God in Jesus Christ, continue in Him till death.
4. It took the death of innocent animals for sacrifice for atonement in the time of the holy prophets- Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Ezekiel, Elijah etc, so Christ (the sinless) also died for the sins of the entire humanity and satified divine justice.
5. About Jesus born of Mary- go and read about cloning and test tube babies. It will help you to understand how Jesus was divinely inplanted into Mary's womb. God made Eve from Adam's rib, so it is not out of place to implant an embryo in a virgin's womb for the saviour to be the 'seed of the woman' as God said to the serpent.
6. I did not mean to say we will be purnished for Adam's sin, but that Adam's disobedience introduced sinful nature (fallen) to all his offsprings- except Jesus that was not conceived through the same method as every man.
7. You will only be judged for your own sins- fornication, lying, fraud, deceit, etc not eating of a fruit in the garden of Eden.
8. If you repent, you will have to find solution for the sins you committed for your repentance and make sure you do not commit any after repentance or find a way of paying for them before you die. Remember the wages of sin is deathj. You will need an equivalent life to make atonement for you and that life have to be sinless or innocent as a prisoner cannot stand as surety for another prisoner.

This is just to make you understand the plan of God according to the Bible. Asking you to believe is a different issue.
But know for sure there is no other provision for redemption available in any religion in the whole world.
May God give you the grace to understand and believe to the saving of your soul.
Unfortunately many people will discover that prophets whose names people say 'peace be unto him' are all this while in peaceless hell fire.
May God open your eyes. If you are sincere and honest, God will set you free in Jesus' name.

Abuzola:
more: Jesus in his day was even made lower than the Angels (as a Man), but he emptied himself of His prehuman nature voluntarily for the suffering of death- God in His nature is immortal. However he gave many indication of His real person several times during His sermons e.g ' I and my Father are one' and several other- for which the Jews wanted to stone him. He shall be called Emmanuel which is God with us.

Abuzola;
Additions:
Jesus' was actually forsaken on the cross according to the exclamation he made while in agony. This is as a result of the sins of the world (as the Lamb of God) which was put on him. 'He who knew no sin was made sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God by him'. God's eye was too Holy to behold iniquity- so Jesus was forsaken so that you (if you accept and repented) could be accepted by God.
Why should our justice system not just forgive crimnal who showedgenuine repentance and remorse for their crimes? why would the law still send them to jail? Anyone can kill, fornicate, steal or commit any kind of sin and just repent. Then who serve the purnishmen for the sins he already committed?
Yes God forgives but He will in no wise clear the guilty. Jesus death is to satisfy the demand for justice. God will be unfair and unjust to just overlook your sins while he purnished Adam and Eve for eating a fruit in disobedience. How will your child be if you just keep forgiving him without carrying out the purnishment you've told him for those offences? If He just forgives as been speculated in some religion, He will be unjust. Anyway it is inconsistent to common sense.

Abuzola;
I think putting together all my answers (all quotations taken from the Holy Bible), you should be able to my responses to all your questions even if they have not been listed.
There are many typographical error in my writing because i could not edit them.
There is no 'religion' or founder of religion that have provided fair, precise and sure solution to the problem of Sin than what Jesus Christ did. 'God was in Christ (Jesus) reconciling the world unto Himself'. As far as God is concerned, he sees the whole human race in just Two groups- 1. those whose sins are forgiven and 2. those whose sins are not yet forgiven. We argue and see ourselves as Muslims, christians, Judaist, Atheist, Catholics, etc. None of all thes names have anything to do with redemption. 'There is one God and ONE MEDIATOR between God and Men, the man Christ Jesus' neither is there salvation in any other ( not in religion, good works, penance, self righteousness, inheritance, pilgrimages etc) for there is no other name given among men whereby we can be saved'. you (or as many as are reading now) can have your sins forgiven right where you are and have assurance within you of possessing eternal life.
'The times of ignorance God winked at, but now comanded every man every where to repent, because he had appointed a day in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has appointed and He has given assurance to everyman by raising Him up from the dead' you can contact me through my email: duroprish@aol.com if you need more help.
NOTE: I am not a Pastor of any Church, just a member of the Body of Christ- though I fellowship with a Living church (denomination)

Abuzola,
3. The offence of Adam in the garden of Eden made God to kill animal(s), and used its skin to cover there unclothedness. couldn's god have formed a cloth from the leaves (like men are making cloth from cotton? He told the serpent, the 'SEED' of the 'woman' shall bruise your head. He taught Moses and all prophets the necessity of 'life for life'. An animal had to die for the sin man committed in the old testament as a means of atonement. 'Almost all thing were by the law PURGED with blood and without the shedding of blood is no remission' The disobedience of man made them to die (lose their lifes). To restore life then justice demands a life in exchange. That is why animals had to be sacrificed. But the life of an animal is not equivalent to the life of a man. If all offspring of Adam are under the judgement of death whose life then would be exchanged for the life of a man sin allhave sinned and come short of the glory of God? That is why a second 'Adam' had to come as the 'SEED' of the woman (no contribution of human egg and sperm, just a means of bringing the man to earth) as Jesus Christ of Nazareth, lived as man (emptied of whatever nature of 'God'- hunger, thirsty, felt pain, mortal, wept, tempted like we humans are ;yet without sin). Having completed the work of redemption for us He ascended back to heaven and sat on God's (father) right hand.
'God has given us eternal life; and this eternal life is in His Son Jesus Christ; he that has the Son has life but he that has not the Son has not life'
to be continued,

Abuzola,
2- trinity is a word use to described the relationship between The Father (God), The Word of God (who came and live as a human as Jesu Christ of nazareth and the Spirit of God ( Holy Ghost). there is no other person revealed in the Bible with the attribute of 'God' otherwise the word trinity would have been out of place. trinity means 3 in 1. There is one God ( as we have one Human- though white, black etc), but 3 persons revealed as having qualities of God (note not 'god'). God commonly used in old testament in original language is Elohim- the plural form of 'Eloi'/'Eli' Jesus called on the cross. (note it is significant that the word was recorded in the original language Jesus used before the english translation).
Whether 'trinity' exists in the bible as a word does not diminish the revealed attributes of Jesus Christ nor of the Holy Spirit. Of Jesus- though he been in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God (the father), but took the form of a servant,; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself unto death even the death on the cross. wherefore God has highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every other name, thatat the name of Jesus every knees should bow, of the things in heaven, , on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the father'
2. The phrase 'been born again' was first used by Jesus Christ (John 3 vs3) and from the teaching and experiences of the Christians in bible days it mean- repent from sins (confess to God and forsake them), believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as the sacrificial lamb (no need of taking any animal to the priest for atonement) and follow him as Lord (obey His commands) and saviour. Whoever professes to be a Christian (whether Bishop, Pastors or who can pray, sing praises, doing arms and good works)and still living in sin or in disobedience to the word of God is deceiving him/her self.
to be continued,

Abuzola, Thanks for your questions.
1. About Jesus- There is only one God - according to the Bible. 'GOD' is not a name but equivalent to how the word 'human' that is why we have Ogun, sango and others called 'gods' (small g). There are 3 personalities with qualities that make them to be regarded as 'God'. The descriptive term 'God' is however used fror the 'Father' who testified of Jesus ( in his human existence) as His only begotten Son. This is in the sense that His Spirit directly implanted the body of Jesus into Mary's womb. As u know if Mary was a virgin, only her ovum could not have become a n embryo without the male sperm (though could do anything), 'sacrifice and offering thou would not, but a body has thou prepared me'. Jesus was called that name in His human existence but the name has been exalted above all names now because of His vicarious sacrifice and obedience to the Father (God). He ws known as the Word of God before His birth into the world. 'In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, and the Word became flesh and dwell among us (human)'. As many as received Him gave he power to become sons of God' so there are other sons of God not in the sense of being born by a virgin like Jesus but by adoption through the righteousness of Jesus christ- you can be one today.
to be continued,

Your questions are so many. Are you out to know the truth or to find a way to criticize?
I will give u a summary answer to all the questions.

The bible is a collection of 66 books. 39 old testament books- the Jews are the custodians of this, while 27 are in thenew testament- records about life of Jesus Christ and his Apostles with some prophecies regarding the future of mankind. The Bible does not contain detail story of many of the historical events mentioned but selection of some lessons God wants us to learn from His dealings with generations before us. Written in the official languages of their time and translated into several language. It will still continue to be translated toother languages till the end of the world. the Jewish bible is the same as the old testament component of the Christian bible. The Catholic additions are not in the Jewish bible. Though they may be good books but are not accepted as canons.
The main theme of the Bible is the origin, effect, and the solution to the problem of sin. Bible revealed that despite the problem the whole creation is facing due to the introduction of rebellion against the creator, His eternal purose to establish His Kingdom over the whole creation and confine rebels (satan, his angels and humans who chose to follow his lies) to eternal prison called Hell fire.
As sin came from one man (Adam) and the nature of his offspring became corruted- sinful, so does the gift of eternal life came through one man (Jesus Christ- who lived as a man and remained sinless till death). The death (cruel sacrifice by man) of Jesus was preplanned by God as the one and only sacrifice for sin that were committed before, during and after his death till the end of the world. Those Godly people that died before Christ looked forward by faith to His ultimate sacrifice evident in their choice to obey God in shedding of 'innocent animals' blood for their sins, from Abel to the time before the crucifixion of Christ.
You cannot save yourself by your religious activity or self righteousness just like a condemned criminal cannotr be freed bby turning over a new leaf in the prison. If you died still sinning, you will definitely go with the devil to his eternal abode.
It's a simple message, 'whosoever commits sin is of the devil, , for this purpose the Son of God was manifested that he might destroy the power of the devil' whosoever is born of God does not commit sin because His remain i Him, ' in this the chidren of God are manifest and the children of the devil'.
God commended His love towards us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
there is no religion on earth (except the Jews religion) that tackles the problem of sin as revealed in the Bible and fulfiled in Jesus Christ. He is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world' He is the propritiation for our sins. If you need more info you can contact me through duroprish@aol.com.

The question is is Pastor Kumuyi the 'BEST' holiness 'PREACHER'? It did not say if he is the most holy preacher.
I have been a believer for close to 20years right from my teenage years and by God's grace I am successful. I have been in scripture union, I have fellowshipped with many churches where 'ye must be born again' is being preached. I have been close to some GO and Pastors and have sat under the ministration of many. Most of the Pastors will never encourage you to live a sinful life. The problem is the definition they gave to what 'being holy' is.
Having listened to some of the messages and studied about the life and preaching of Pastor W. F Kumuyi, I can tell anyone that as far as pleasing God is concern, they can listen to what Kumuyi has to say and if they follow them, they cannot miss heaven. Some of the doctrineas being enforced in the church are administrative principles eg not having TV. Unfortunately I cannot say this same thing about many other preachers because they are silent on scriptural stand on some issues and openly encouraged some that are very controvertial. In the sense that some events in the Bible showed that God was not happy with them. And some are things not sinful in themselves but could draw the hearts of men away from God into the mundane things of this world. God will not send you away from heaven not not wearing jewelry or owning TV while on earth. But no preacher can say categorically that some will not miss heaven for the effects of these on their lives. Each of us need to be sincere and honest in whatever we do and with whatever motive we do anything in this life. Whether the Pastors are holy or not is God's responsibilty to judge. But judge your own self. All of us will stand as individuals before God to be judged not based on church affliation or who was our Pastor, but based on the standard of God who respect no persons.