₦airaland Forum

Aaronsrod:
Only the pope can help us.

He can call on God to rain fire and destruction on the herdsmen.

Without such a Man of God we can do nothing to save ourselves.

the pope cannot help you only Jesus the true saviour all others are thieves and robbers
Jesus came to save sinners and not to destroy them

ote author=Dnaz post=67084384]Chaire!!! Kecharitomene. It's a salutation like No other by the Angel Gabriel, its a salutation that has changed the world forever.
Chaire! Kecharitomene as it was written in Greek means "Hail full of Grace" or Hail perfected in Grace ", or Hail You who are completely graced.Luke 1:28
But What manner of Salutation is this, especially from an Angel to a Woman. For Luke 1:29 says she was startled and wondered to herself what sort of greeting this is
The angel Gabriel has appeared only twice before in the bible , 1st to Daniel in Daniel 8:16 and 2nd to Zachariah in Luke 1:11-13. In both instances both men trembled before the angel but in the case of Mary She was Saluted by the angel as Gabriel exclaimed HAIL!

@ bold kecharitomene does not mean full of grace. The Greek word for full of grace is γεμάτος χάρη gemátos chári and this word has only been used twice in the bible, . You took a kecharitomene and tried to stretch it beyond what it meant.
Even mary didn't understand what the angel meant until the angel rephrased his statement saying what he meant that Mary hath found favour with God not what you typed

Note Mary found grace or favour with God not that she was born with it.

why will an angel Terrify 2 Strong men of God and Salute a lowly teenage girl. We see the reason in his next statement." Kecharitomene meaning Perfected in grace. For not Zachariah nor Daniel was worthy of this Exaltation but Mary because she has been Completely graced by God

haha kecharitomene does not mean perfected in grace , someone without a knowledge of Greek will easily be deceived. Kecharitomene means one who has found favour.
Ke is a Greek rootword that is used to form past tense.
Charito is the word from which charity is gotten from
Mene- a feminine receiver of something.

Any one who read that verse would easily see that the angel wasn't saying that Mary was sinless but that Mary had received a favour from God.

What what kind of favour did Mary receive?
Let's here from Mary herself,

Luke 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden:[ for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

1:50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

1:51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

1:52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.


Notice, it had nothing to do with sinlessness

Why will God perfect her in grace. Luke tells us again in 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
Luke 1:31

32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
Luke 1:32

33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."
Luke 1:33

how does this verse correlate with Mary sinlessness.

For what does it mean to be full of grace. It means to be completely free from sin and thus she was not by her own merits but by the merits of God whom she is to concieve by the power of the Holy spirit. For God cannot grow in a body stained by sin thus he graced her from her conception with his saving grace in preparation for the role she is to play. [b]She was conceived like us in sin [/b]but was saved from original sin by her son and then fully graced to keep her pure until he comes. For thus she exclaimed in the magnificat Luke 1:47 my spirit Rejoices in God my saviour. For she has already been saved by Her son even before her son saved us on the Cross. For she is the immaculate conception of Whom the WORD was made flesh(incarnated) and dwelt amongst us.For the word was not conceived in sin like us but was conceived in perfect purity. The word was not to be saved but to SAVE

Seriously Can God grow? @bold now you agree with me that Mary was born in sin just like us. Jesus didn't share from the sin of Mary because a child cannot share from the sin nature of his mother so there is no need for Mary to be sinless only that she should be virgin

Look at this verse,

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

In as much as Mary was born in sin it means she was just a sinner like everyone else and for God for her sins to be forgiven the blood of Christ is needed.


Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.Without the blood of Jesus Mary sins cannot be forgiven.

Dnaz:
Mary was completely filled with grace (Kecharitomene) even before Christ won grace for the rest of humanity on the Cross.
She was Specially prepared not to sin simply because she was to bear God himself.
There are somethings beyond your understanding of the Scriptures

did Christ die for Mary? Simple yes or no
There is nothing difficult there
Kecharitomene has nothing to do with what you typed there.
Mary was prepared not to sin? Mary called God her saviour, saviour from what? If God can only save sinners how come Mary still needed a saviour if she had no sin?
The scripture is always difficult for heretics and liars.