₦airaland Forum

jedisco:
Lets see it this way.
Before you exit, try and do it from a position of knowledge i.e, try and appreciate the full advantages and why it's called a 'gold plated' pension. If after that, you still want to leave, then no ish.

Try not to look at it from the Nigerian lens. The life expectancy in Nigeria is still in the mid-50's and retirement planning is far from robust. It's something we hardly did. Govt workers back home strike so that their retirement age can be increased. Some even go underhanded to achieve it. That's the opposite of what you have in the west where riots happen when a year or two is added to the retirement age.

It'd likely get to 70 by the time you retire. The retirement age rises as people live longer so it's not bad in itself. It seems far in the future but you'd most likely get there. Question is what are your plans when you do? If you want to retire early, there's the option of a SIPP which can kick in 10 yrs before state pension i.e 57yrs today. Before then, you can use an ISA if say 50 is your target. But I'd flip it and say that if looking to retire early, the NHS pension is not one to miss. It's practically what keeps many working in the NHS.



Oh dear! The effect of recent events as regards visa rules are far-reaching.

Thank you, I appreciate it. I'm still leaving it on for now, the additional income would be about £166 max monthly... So I don't think it's worth opting because of that amount sha.

The immigration situation has indeed made a lot of guys opt out o. Infact some stopped mortgage applications midway, we that obtained mortgage last year na God hand we dey.

The uncertainty is indeed altering people's decisions these days

justwise:
Rather than stopping it ...maximise it so that NHS will match it, it's pretty much free money.

Thank you. While I agree uncertainty and risk is an integral part of investing (pension) in this case it seems very very significant. Out of a group of Nigerian friends in the NHS trust, I'm the only one still left on it.

Cyberknight:
There's nothing wrong with opting out from your NHS pension scheme if you need the extra money in the here and now as opposed to when you've retired. As long as you understand what you're doing. Some people opt out because they're trying to save for an expense they need to meet, others because the extra money is needed to make ends meet.

Basically, the UK has a 3 pillar pension regime, as opposed to Nigeria where we had just the one. The 1st type of pension is the state pension, which everyone who has worked for up to 10 years in the UK will receive from the government at retirement age. This is the one which in theory your payment of taxes (NI is just another tax) entitles you to. That amount is set at a level to cover recipients' basic living costs and assumes that recipients are no longer paying rent or a mortgage at pension age. It's currently about £12,500 for those who have worked and paid tax in the UK for 35 years. The amount people will receive varies by how long their working life in the UK will be, and if you can get state pension "forecasts" letting you know how much you can expect as the state pension when you retire based on your current age. You can't "opt out" of the state pension by deciding not to pay NI.

The second type is the workplace (employer-run) pension scheme in which your employer deducts from your pay a fixed amount and adds its own fixed percentage and puts that in a retirement scheme in your name. This is the one we've got in Nigeria, and that's what your NHS pension scheme is. You can opt out of that one and save the monthly contribution you make every month, as long as you understand that this means that you will also lose the employer contribution and the tax relief as well and will only be building up an entitlement to the state pension.

And as you will be aware, the public sector pensions schemes (NHS, civil service, council, police, forces, etc) are known as gold plated pensions schemes, because they are final salary pensions and are backed by the government, which has a great deal of credibility.

The 3rd type is a private pension. Self -employed people who work for themselves and as such only have entitlement to the state pension and some employed high earners who want to reduce their tax bills can set up private pensions and pay money into them. Private pensions also have tax relief on contributions, but of course do not have employer contributions.

The important thing to understand, as per the chain of discussions in this thread is:

1. You can opt out of a workplace pension, but it doesn't make sense from a financial perspective to do so in order to set up a private pension because you lose the employer contributions (and if you are working for the NHS those are very good).

2. If you desperately need the money you are paying as contributions from your salary now and have no other way to raise it, then of course it also makes financial sense to opt out and use that money now. However, before you decide, it is advisable you consult with someone to understand what the exact pros and cons are, how long you will retain your benefits (if at all) when you're not contributing, etc. Benefits include the death in service provision, which is effectively life insurance, whereby if you die the pension scheme pays a lump sum of a multiple of your salary to your beneficiaries, for example.

Given the quasi-guaranteed nature of these schemes for public sector employees and the high (notional) employer contributions you get from the government, in most cases you'll be ultimately financially better off picking up extra shifts or getting an additional part-time job if you can than opting out of the NHS pension scheme.

Thank you very much sir. This is a concise summary. Regards. The future is long time away though, and I've been reading that one can access the funds even if not living in the UK anymore at that time. But there's a lot of uncertainty!!! Another angle is that the age might be increased from 67 in the near future... For us under 40, it looks like opting out is a sensible option too. It's a really difficult decision right now...

Goodenoch:
You seem to be conflating a few different things so I just want to correct them so others aren’t misled:

1. Your reference to 200 per week makes me think you’re referring to the state pension. That’s different from your workplace pension and you’re paying for it via your NI contributions whether you want to or not.

2. There’s no requirement for you to wait till you’re 68 or 70 to access your workplace pension. That’s for the state pension. You can access your pension from the National Minimum Pension Age which is 57 (will be 58 from 2028). This applies to all pensions including private ones so you don’t gain anything by not getting your employer contributions into your pension pot.

3. Heading home before your 60s or whenever again has nothing to do with whether your pension is a private one or a workplace one. You can get paid abroad the same way, and the same restrictions on moving pensions to a foreign provider apply to both so again just like in point 2 above you’re just needlessly depriving yourself of the employer contribution for no benefit.

I'm really interested in this topic because I've been contemplating stopping my NHS pension. Is paying NI not enough? That extra 8.5% is somehow jare! Many immigrants in my trust have opted out but I'm still unsure 🤔

ehizario2012:
Nice writeup. What is your advice about contributory state pension? Is it advisable to opt out now? Just a few years in

I can see it's been discussed already. Tx

WanderingChild:
Just some random extreme thoughts.

I can safely assume that if the UK government is able to legislate to increase the timeline for earned settlement in order to throttle the number of qualifying immigrants, then the following:
1. Settlement timelines can be retroactively changed
2. Different migrant categories deserve different timelines based on "contribution"
3. Settlement doesn't guarantee full social rights (being noises around)
4. This can all be done without parliamentary debate (Immigration Rules changes)

having been established, the next plan from the UK government will be to focus on "state pensions reforms". The arguments will be an exact replica - the number of immigrants who will qualify for state pensions by say 2052 will bankrupt the state as we would have more persons on pension than working. They would talk about the need to keep people working longer especially immigrants and how citizenship is not a right but a privilege (please always look out for this statement as its prevalence in HO correspondence is a psyops to numb the fact that it is your right to acquire British Citizenship if you have met the time requirements and good character aspect - you CANNOT be denied citizenshipif you apply having met all requirements).

The "reforms" will focus on:
1. Making state pension a benefit. They will find ways to argue that NI contributions today are immaterial to the benefits that payers derive from living and working in the UK (I can evidence this as a fact that our NI and taxes are far lesser than the value we get from living and working in the UK. The justification of this will rely on "intangible" benefits (peace, prestige, exposure, community, access, name and location brand, etc.) whose quantification is subjective like Elon Musk's wealth). Government already argues visa fees reflect "value" of UK access. Remember that there are 3 types of lies - lies, damned lies and statistics.
2. Making the minimum qualification to enjoy state pension outside period of contribution to be having a British citizenship.
3. Making this forward looking rather than retroactive (to avoid clashes with ECHR). The goal will be to make getting citizenship more laborious (Kemi's 15 years comes into play) after ILR.

Remember, the government will by then (through current reforms) have:
1. Established retroactivity is acceptable
2. Created precedent for differential treatment
3. Signaled openness to restricting ILR rights
4. Done this with minimal opposition

As you plan, please plan wisely. The immigrant is about to be properly set in a visual rat race. We are about to launch the creation of a generation or two of frustrated immigrants with outcomes far worse than during the slave trade era. The UK lacks any means of wealth creation (growth) beyond exploitation and extraction from workers. This is why they will continue to skew policies to bait and trap workers for as long as possible.

Nice writeup. What is your advice about contributory state pension? Is it advisable to opt out now? Just a few years in

RodgersAkpafu:
.This is more of need and self interest of the justice dept, not really about "organising"

Whatever the intention is, what matters is that "Nigerians" are singled out to be adding value and useful to the society. That's a good win for this community, thanks to those working in UK prisons. God bless you.

Raalsalghul:
Another U-turn from Labour: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d7j350q1o?fbclid=IwdGRjcAOVjYFjbGNrA5WNV2V4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHnWfts4cbRnRr6pKpQiebw9JmDjPLubsJfkcOQy7XL61htKruEhTRrwAGHnh_aem_BixKaTSVSb_a0Y_ABh-1ug&brid=S8k_3tPcCuoqmqtP51UnyA

Stitch up party.

The policy didn't look right from the onset, it would have seriously unbalanced the workforce.

Bb007:
Safe?...not safe at all. Please remain where you are

Person wey dey hustle for area dey form plenty things... He should go outside and check for himself. No bobo here.

elengine:
Really. I can clearly see your line of thoughts. The seaport in South south is deliberately not developed to keep Lagos developing. Wow. This appears like the usual beer parlour talks and I never imagined we could go this low on this platform. Haaa. So who are the people behind this conspiracy of failure to develop seaport in south south. Is it all the former military head of states, including Aguiyi Ironsi, Babangida, Obasanjo etc? Or should we point finger to elected presidents like Jonathan who is obviously from south south? The above sentiment is not based on any fact but a mere fallacy that is influenced by too much alcohol.

Secondly, there is nothing like we all develop a place. Lagos was merely a stench and dustbin after federal capital was relocated to Abuja. There are vidoe clips that evidence this claim. It is normal for people to pay tax while carrying out their day to day work in a place, just like we do here in the youkay. And we won't say we all develop UK. You have only performed your civil duty as a residents but you guys keep sounding like you donated money to develop Lagos. While your governors are busy spending money on what is not necessary, Lagos is spending its money on infrastructure with some level of consistency in governance. Is it you that advised Tinubu to rethink revenue generation? Were you the one that developed blue print they have been following since 1999? Tomorrow now, you will say the fastest train Lagos is as a result of being a former capital 😀 Normally I should not engage in this kind of conversation but I can't just help. I'm sure people like you do not even know that where we call Lagos today is not the same Lagos of federal capital. Only about 40% of today's Lagos was the federal capital. Lagos has always been at advantaged position because of its nearness to water and strategic location. We have always had everything first in Lagos and even before almagation in 1914, Lagos had already witnessed development and there are impeccable evidence to this. Let us stop all these beer parlour theories please. My prayer is that when Obi or Jonathan return to power, you guys should advise him to dredge south south seaport further so we dont have to continue to have this conversation.

No point in taking this further, let's end it here. Remember what started this conversation, it was about how we treat ourselves even within our nation, we're not in a position to shout ra**sm or prejudice...

elengine:
I guess you want to start the argument right. Is calabaster not a former capital?

Abuja is the current capital, how many council chairmen have you seen that is from South? From Abaji to Kuje, to Gwagwalada, from Bwari to Kwali etc. It is this Lagos sha. Tyring to link every argument to Lagos

Read what you wrote again, comparing Calabar and Abuja to Lagos? How is that even possible? Apart from the fact that Lagos was developed by all Nigerians during the best years of the country (economic boom), facilities in other regions especially seaports in the South South have been deliberately not developed so as to concentrate economic activities in Lagos and force it to remain Nigeria's economic nerve centre. On top of all these, Lagos indigenes are also beginning to (falsely) think that the economic development of Lagos is as a result of their own efforts only - so far from the truth! Lagosians must know that other tribes in Lagos must be respected as partners in development, and without them Lagos won't be what it is today. We dare the federal government to develop the ports in the South South and see if Lagos won't be emptied... I thought all non Yoruba streets in Lagos would have been renamed by now, some greedy ones have eyes set on Ozumba Mbadiwe road, they should rename it quickly before their lord Tinubu leaves office. And what's CALABASTER please?? Looks like a mistake but I can't put such corruption of City names beyond you guys.

ReesheesuKnack:
Lagosians?
I wish the issue was only restricted to ‘Lagosians’.
Whereas Lagos has its issues, the Lagos state House of Assembly could have Osawe, Osaze, Isibhakhomen, Olusola (from Ekiti) or Adewale (from Oșògbò) as members of state parliament.
Can you say the same thing in Edo, Delta, Imo, Plateau or Kebbi states?

Even those who are citizens (read: Indigenes), have different rights from Indigenes.


I think that needs to change about Nigeria.

Lagos is a former capital of Nigeria, the wealth of Lagos is the sweat of all Nigerians. Lagos already has early mover's advantage, it cannot be compared to any other state in Nigeria including the FCT.

Zahra29:
15 years! Blimey...

Is there an interim permanent resident status at least that confers some rights and benefits?

After that 15 years, Lagosians would come with their own wahala again, even if he owns a company with permanent buildings in Lagos... Let's pray for favour because if we consider where we come from as a benchmark ehn!! Our own sef plenty for bodi, e dey our bodi! Nigerians

jagbasneh:
Guy you're missing it up big time, first are you here legal or illegal, are you not contributing to the system, not everyone came in with care visa guy, do you know how much immigration subcharge cost per year now and multiple it to the numbers of years to qualify for ilr. And you are still going to pay for ilr fees which keep increasing, you are talking as if to get ilr and British pali na free. If anyone get ilr and fill like getting British pali let them have it, guy don't campaign against getting British pali in less than 10years moreover will are not the one that make the law in the first.

When asking for something, don't ask for too much. When given a foot, don't ask for a yard. Wisdom is profitable to direct.

Goke7:
Guy if you enter US with a green card today you can apply for citizenship after 5 years, if you enter Canada today with PR you can apply after 3 years, Canada is even more interesting cos if you have been there as a student or any other visa and had spent 3 years already once you get you PR the next day sef you can apply for citizenship as they count all those other years on previous visas so let’s always cross check properly before we think the Uk is doing one huge thing that’s not done elsewhere.

Citizenship is not the issue here it’s the benefits you can access from the day you have your ilr that’s the headache as the Uk is broke and many feel it will become more of a burden as more people attain ilr so please separate the issues properly cos that’s the problem in this country as everything get muddled together to confuse and misinform people. And as for those who say they don’t want benefits if they get ilr it has nothing to do with you but the laws and statues of the land where you dwell as we have so many categories of immigrants so be careful how you isolate yourself cos the country itself does not isolate you in any way to define what to give or grant you in terms of rights and privileges. In summary citizenship is not even mandatory and there is no compulsion to have it immediately after ilr and so many are in this country with just ilr for so many years while they maintain the citizenship of where they come from. Apologies for my long post

You've made good points, and it aligns with my thoughts. Agreeing that the two main reasons for the anti-immigration sentiments are the financial burden and dilution of the English culture, it's clear that if immigrants don't "request" for "benefits" with ILR the fear of eroding the UK finances would drastically die down. And those trying to impose their "culture and religion" on their host community, na dem Sabi!!!

jagbasneh:
For real, they play. Just talk about yourself

How can someone claim to be a citizen of another country in less than 10 years?? Citizen o... Citizenship na yam or beans? ILR is what matters, they can shift citizenship to 20 years if they wish. It'll reduce this anti-immigration hullabaloo.

Zahra29:
MPs are debating the proposed ILR extension today.

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/326/petitions-committee/news/209123/mps-will-debate-two-petitions-relating-to-the-qualifying-period-for-indefinite-leave-to-remain/

In my opinion, instead of even welcoming thoughts of increasing increasing ILR eligibility from five years, I'll say the UK can take away "benefits" from ILR and retain them for citizens. The average legal immigrant is not interested in benefits, most need the ILR just to get away from the shackles of CoS. Immigrants are ready to work hard, pay taxes, contribute to the society, while also saving up for their future. Citizenship eligibility can be increased to 20 years, that shouldn't be a problem. I don't think the average legal immigrant cares so much about citizenship.

Apexbest:
Please help! My sister got a one yr visa to uk. She has stayed 1hr already. How can she get sponsor in order to get a paper that will enable her stay.

If I may ask, what's stopping your sister from coming here to ask herself? Thank you.

Hi guys, my initial thought was that the main delay in property purchase is always from the mortgage side, I mean securing a mortgage. However, almost 2 months after mortgage was secured, my solicitor keeps saying he's waiting for response from the sellers solicitor. The wait is really difficult...

Goke7:
Very regrettable and so shameful! Just a waste of time and space.

Cutting grass has become a problem whereas we cut grass here in the uk just with different types of tools and equipment. I’ve discussed with lots of elderly folks here and they will tell you all the struggles they had as children growing up which is not quite different from a developing 3rd world like Nigeria. Most of the advancements in this country started from the 60s downward when Nigeria was still coming out of colonial rule. Every nation has its timeline of evolution and development. Aunty truly need to be checked emotionally, is she even thinking of her own children at all? What’s the use of all these achievements if you’re so lost in yourself alone and everything from your childhood seems to offend you. Na wa o!

I was discussing with one old man here and he said they didn't have hot showers until the 60s. There were still pit toilets in the UK in the 1900s... Everybody started somewhere.

I remember Itepu patricia Iragbonfoh for JAMB

Listening to this interesting program live on BBC Radio 4 about types of racism and discussing Diane Abbot's suspension... That mama said the fact. Racism is to blacks, what happens between people of same colour is not racism, it's prejudice. I hope I can get the replay online and share.

BBC Radio 4 Antisocial

RodgersAkpafu:
Like I have told you
Let's give it a rest
U too rest

Just watch and see what happens in the next couple of months as the noose gets more and more tightened

Feel free to blame Aunty' Kemi as that happens

And no, the point u raised doesn't apply here because you cannot compare a straightforward process (Britain) with a convoluted one (Nigeria , India, et al)

Cheers

We know your type. I can see most people are already ignoring you, soon nobody would respond to your posts anymore. The presentation of a point is as important as the point itself. Cheers.

Cyberknight:
Sentence not clear, I'm afraid. A kid is a baby goat.
We won't argue over your implied assertion that young human beings under 18 are wonderfully wise and clear headed beings not actuated by emotion or capable of being unreasonable; it's Monday morning.

Ok let's agree, a child. A 13 year old is a teenager who can demand to sleepover outside the parent's house in this UK. Let's stop shielding them... Waiting till my children reach 13, we go know how far then. Wishing the parents all the best again.

I remember kemi badenoch has one fan here who said they'll like their children to be like her, I would like to know their position now that kemi has been shown up as one making frivolous comments...

Cyberknight:
Easy on the child.
I've every sympathy for the OP, but children are children and generally haven't much wisdom or self-control and are inherently capable of doing foolish things. We were all children once.

I'll like to know the age of the children, however a 13+ child isn't a kid. At 13 there are things I would never do. The parents are the ones I pity, they should go and have other children after this episode. God help them.

abuhusna1:
The experience of the young lady really taking me off guard and I hope and pray she overcomes cosnif whe was successfully sent back to Nigeria no chance she will ever get the children back. No parent can bear such humiliation

The only humiliation would be if they are sent out of the country (I pray not) but for the child, it's his/her loss. Such a child (probably above 13 years) who reports their parents is not worthy of being called a child. Good riddance. May God help the OP to get over this.

Fred2020:
When you use your card as you would normally, pay up the balance monthly leaving no unpaid balance.

The bank is less concerned about your credit card debt if it is fully paid monthly.

Thank you. Our limit is currently 1500 each, we're thinking of drawing like 300 each for this month. That drop in credit score was annoying.

Meogom:
Thanks guys for all the suggestions.
Finally heard back from Barclays via the mortgage advisor. Was given two options 1) Pay off the credit 2) Have the mortgage offer reevaluated based on the new available info. We opted for the 1st option and have paid off, so hopefully things should move on as planned.
Thanks once again for your input, greatly appreciated.

This is a very key information. I lost 11 points on my credit score last month simply because I didn't use my credit card at all... Now I'm wondering if I can draw the credit line while expecting decision from the mortgage lender? Barclays too, seems Barclays love immigrants.

aylipple:
VP Shettima's problem is he talks too much sometimes and then ends up sounding like a confused man.

There you're saying a President can't remove a councillor how much more a governor - in reference to then PGEJ - but you're number two citizen in an administration that sacked a duly elected governor, state assembly members and LG chairpersons: pray tell, how do you reconcile these two similar scenarios, Sir?

You're either saying your boss PBAT acted beyond his powers & you're an accessory to such an act of illegality or you're saying that matters of constitutional right & wrong only depends on which side of the fence you're at any particular time.

A VP is worse than a spare tire in Nigeria, he's actually a punctured spare tire. He has zero influence over the president.

Lexusgs430:
What do you have against BENSU...... Pls don't take me down memory lane of my days at makurdi.......... 🤣😁😂

Bros, the original BENSU na e turn to Ambrose Alli so... I go BENSU staff school. But you be senior bros.

Bendel State University, Ekpoma.

MonkeySee:
see attached for my ID check fee its £12
try to compare quotes with other solicitors thats what I did when my first quote was £4k plus my second was £2281 . You can guesss which one i accepted.

I used credas too

Thank you. I also got another solicitor about £500 less!