₦airaland Forum

trustman:
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The 5 points of Calvinism, like all other forms of classification, seeks to present a logical order for God's dealing with man particularly with regards to the issue of sin. 

Over the years many have come up with their own form of LAPSARIANISM. One thing common to many if not all of these categorization is the total depravity of man. Areas of differences include Limited Atonement which addresses whether Christ's work covers ONLY those to be saved or the entire humanity. 

I believe the biblical position for this (limited or unlimited atonement) is clearly brought out in passages like:
1 John 2:2 - "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and NOT ONLY for ours BUT ALSO for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"
1 Timothy 2:6 - "who gave himself a ransom FOR ALL MEN... ..."
Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN"

Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for ALL but ONLY those who, in the exercise of their freewill, express faith in his finished work become beneficiaries of his work - John 1:12, John 20:31,etc. 

In addition, it would be good to know from you where Jesus being God is directly against scripture.

Yes, however, Calvinism is against freewill and the belief is that the atonement was only limited to those that God unconditionally chose. The Bible on the other hand explicitly states that the atonement was for all. The criteria of course is to believe in that free gift of salvation.

Concerning Jesus being God, there is no scripture that explicitly states that Jesus was God. What's evident from scripture is that Jesus was a man who had the Spirit of God in Him. The bible explicitly states that God cannot be tempted by evil (James 1:13) yet, Jesus was tempted by the devil. There other scriptures where Jesus describes himself as a different entity from God. No where in the Bible does Jesus say He is God. The closest Jesus came to that was in John 17:21 when he said 'let them be one just as you and I are one'. Notice He didn't say 'just you, me and the Holy Spirit are one' (trinity). Now the concept of us being one does not mean we are the same people, just as it doesn't mean God and Jesus are the same. It is the minds of fallible men that invented the trinity and made Jesus, God. If you study history you will see that as Calvinism gained ground in Rome, those that did not believe in the trinity were beheaded or burnt, John Calvin himself was at the forefront of these punishments. It was a cycle of how philosophy had gotten to the heads of men that any divergence from their views was deemed a punishable offense.

WinsomeX.. Well, obviously not all Calvinists are 5-point Calvinists. Some people do believe in all the 5 points (TULIP) and others believe in 2. It is vital to understand that Calvinism is merely a man-made philosophy. It's roots stem from Greek mythology to be precise. If you study history you will see that Greek mythology had a great influence on Calvin. The whole concept of total depravity is no where to be found in the bible. It all stems from Gnosticism which believes that all matter is evil. Do some research before you blindly follow men. I challenge you to provide scriptural evidence that shows TOTAL depravity. Obviously you will use week points that you have interpreted according to your Calvinistic worldview.

Regarding the Sovereignty of God, true Calvinists take an extreme view that suggests that God is completely in control of everything that happens in this world. Therefore, if a woman gives birth to a baby who dies hours later, guess what, God was in control.

How may say Calvinism exalts Christ, but it sure does a good job at vilifying God. What kind of God would kill His own Son because He cannot look over man's sins? If God can't look at us because of our sins and has to super-impose Jesus on us in order to look at us or have anything to do with us, then why was he looking for Adam and Eve after they had sinned? What type of God forgives by passing on the punishment to someone else? That simply makes the impediment to reconciliation God's wrath, and not sin (as the bible teaches). Sin is the impediment, and it is what Jesus Christ came to defeat. He conquered the power of sin and death on the cross. Calvinists say Christ had to endure the wrath of God upon that cross. Again I ask, what kind of God does that? It is only when you remove the Calvinist tinted glasses that you will see that Calvinism is simply philosophy.

I think most of you should be advised to look into the origin of reformed theology. It stems from Calvinism and teaches the 5 points of Calvinism (TULIP). Which are T- total depravity, U- unconditional election, L- limited atonement, I- irresistible grace, and P- perseverance of the saints. If you open the bible and read it in light of this philosophy, you will twist so many scriptures in order to conform the Bible to the Calvinistic philosophy. That's basically Calvinism and what Calvinists do. There is no free-will in Calvinism, because according to the U (unconditional election), God has already chosen those that He wants saved and no one can make a decision to go to God because of the T (total depravity). So even as you read the views of these cessationists, know that their ideology and theology is tainted with Calvinism.

If you go back and study church history, you will realize that John Calvin got most of his work from St. Augustine. Read about John Calvin and St. Augustine's history and make your own conclusion. In addition, reformed theology has a view of salvation called penal substitutionary atonement. Go back in church history and see the conflicts that arose between penal sub atonement and the christus victus view of atonement. It is actually understood that the christus victus view of the atonement was what was prevalent among the early church fathers who had made commentaries on the manuscripts that are today the new testament. It should also be noted that in order for Calvinism to work, Jesus has to be God, which directly is against scripture. Please familiarize yourselves with the history concerning the trinitarian doctrine. The early church fathers even noted that as the Bible says; there is only one God, and that Jesus was indeed a man (God's son). There is no trinity. It so happened that those that believed in the trinity began killing and attacking those who did not believe in it. Again read up on the history.

Having expressed all of this, I think it is fair to say that the opinions of these men at the conference can be so easily debunked by a simple look into history. Reform theologists are always talking about how the 'truth' should be preached and that the gospel should preached the 'right way'. But what they don't tell you is that 'that way' is Calvinism. According to Calvinists, everything that happens is ordained and predestined by God. So to them, if a woman loses a child during labor, it was God's 'sovereign' will. If a young man is addicted to fornication, it's God's 'sovereign' will. Apparently, sin is God's 'sovereign' will too. Run and run fast.