₦airaland Forum

gohf:
did I ever tell you that Jesus ever said that.

Instead of using unrelented questions to dodge relevant questions, just answer you don't know. Instead of doing this

Thank you for your honesty in acknowledging that Jesus never explicitly said the Holy Spirit is God or that God is a triune being. This is precisely the point I am raising.

From an Islamic perspective, we affirm that true monotheism (Tawheed) must be based on clear, unambiguous teachings from God's messengers. If the doctrine of the Trinity—which defines God as three co-equal, co-eternal persons—is such a fundamental tenet of Christian faith, then it is reasonable to ask for explicit statements from Jesus himself affirming this.

If Jesus never said that the Holy Spirit is God or that God is a triune being, then the formulation of the Trinity appears to be a later theological development, not a direct teaching of Christ. That raises an important question: should central doctrines about God's nature be based on theological interpretation, or on the direct, clear words of God's prophets?

As Muslims, we respect Jesus as a prophet and messenger of God, and we follow what he clearly taught: the worship of the One true God. If he never claimed divinity for the Holy Spirit or described God as triune, then we have every reason to remain with the pure monotheism he preached.

BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh honesttalk21 NairaLTQ MaxInDHouse

TenQ:
Until I know exactly what you mean by the Holy Spirit, there is no moving forward


If we are not referring to the SAME Holy Spirit, how can we be on the same page.

Who is the Holy Spirit according to Jesus?
Who is the Holy Spirit according to Allah or Mohammed?

Only then will any answers make any sense and not an exercise in futility!

Thank you for your reply. Your concern for clarity is valid, and I am happy to oblige with definitions to ensure we are speaking on equal terms.

1. Clarifying the Question

My question is intentionally based on your own Christian theological framework, not Islamic theology. I asked:👇

> Where did Jesus explicitly teach that the Holy Spirit is God, or part of a triune Godhead?

This is a challenge directed within your own doctrine, requesting direct, unequivocal words from Jesus himself — not later theological development or church dogma.

2. Who Is the Holy Spirit in Christianity?

From mainstream Trinitarian doctrine, the Holy Spirit is understood as:

The third person of the Trinity

Co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Son

Fully divine and distinct in personhood

If this is your position, then the challenge remains:👇
Did Jesus ever state that the Holy Spirit is divine and part of a triune Godhead?
If so, please provide a direct quote from Jesus — not Paul, not creeds, not post-resurrection interpretations.

3. The Islamic View (For Clarification, Not Debate)

Since you asked: In Islam, the Holy Spirit (Rūḥ al-Qudus) refers to Jibrīl (Gabriel) — the Angel of Revelation. He is a creation of Allah, not a part of divinity. The Qur’an makes clear that:

> “Say: The Holy Spirit has brought it (the Qur’an) down from your Lord in truth…” — Qur’an 16:102

He serves God's commands and is not divine in nature.

However, let us not conflate definitions. The original question asks you to defend the doctrine of the Trinitarian Holy Spirit from the words of Jesus himself — not from Paul, church fathers, or philosophical extrapolations.

4. Conclusion

So to restate the challenge with clarity:👇

> Where did Jesus clearly and unambiguously identify the Holy Spirit as God or as a co-equal person of a triune Godhead?

Let us focus on what Jesus himself said. If your doctrine is truly grounded in his teachings, then this should be straightforward.

I look forward to your evidence-based response.

BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh honesttalk21 NairaLTQ MaxInDHouse

TenQ:
If we are not referring to the SAME Holy Spirit, how can we be on the same page.

Who is the Holy Spirit according to Jesus?
Who is the Holy Spirit according to Allah or Mohammed?

Only then will any answers make any sense and not an exercise in futility!

Kindly answer the following question based on your own theological doctrine:👇

Where did Jesus ever explicitly state that the Holy Spirit is God, or that the Holy Spirit is a person within a triune Godhead?

Please provide a direct and unambiguous statement from Jesus himself, not a later interpretation or theological inference, but a clear declaration in which Jesus defines the Holy Spirit as one of three co-equal, co-eternal persons of a triune deity.

BibleInterpreta TenQ gofh NairaLTQ

TenQ:
Here are Buddhists aka Muslims praying

[img]https://buddhism.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/pic1-300x200.jpg[/img]

[img]https://mysakonnakhon.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Buddhist-Prayer-Beads-with-Monk-1125x798.jpg.webp[/img]

Indeed, if this is how you pray, Buddhists are Muslims


Did you notice how shamelessly you went into the "corrupt bible' to pick on what you thought Jesus taught?
Tell use what Jesus taught!

Unfortunately, we don't even know who ISA is: as definitely Isa cannot be Jesus the Christ!



The Question was: What did Jesus teach about the Holy Spirit?



Did the Trinitarian formula according to you thinking mean God, Son and Holy Spirit!?
OR
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?




So, the simple challenge is for you to find us any sect (even heretic) of Christians who say God is the Third of THREE?


Can't you answer a direct Question!
“If Allah is the third of three, who are the other two?”


How many Iblis exist in the Universe?
Is he not ONE: just as Allah is ONE!?

There is not difference!


Does Allah descend every third part of the Night to the lowest heaven listen to the prayers of you Muslims or not?
Is Allah not on his throne upon the waters which is above the seven heavens or not?

The implication of these two is that Allah is NOT Omnipresent sir!

It is a painful pill to swallow, but is it is the truth



If Islam is a continuation, why do you reject the scriptures of the Jews and Christians?
Why is it that you do NOT know the purpose of the Messiah?
Why is it that you kiss the Blackstone against the law of Moses and Christ Jesus?
Why is it that islam is cascade of lies from the beginning to the end.

Sorry, you want to believe this , but it is a false religion that takes you straight to hell fire!

Islam is an amalgamation of several religions of the Jews, the Christians, the Sabeans, the Meccan Idolaters, the Buddhists etc.


This is exactly why God never spoke once to Mohammed as other prophets of Old.

Allah has 99 names,
Is the name of the God of Mohammed or you Muslims YHWH?

Response to Your Claims and Accusations:

Your message is filled with emotion, ridicule, and a cascade of contradictions. However, let me respond to you not with mockery, but with reason and truth — grounded in facts and not assumptions.

1. Misrepresentation of Muslim Prayer:

You posted images of Buddhists in prayer, implying that because their physical posture may resemble Muslims, they must be the same. This is an elementary fallacy called false equivalence.

Similarity in posture ≠ similarity in belief.

If that logic held, then Jews and Christians who pray by bowing or prostrating — as Jesus did (Matthew 26:39) — would also be called Muslims.

Muslims follow the specific method of prayer taught by the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ through divine instruction — not merely external posture. Intent, belief, and prescribed action define worship in Islam, not superficial resemblance.

2. “Corrupt Bible” – What Did Jesus Actually Teach?

You accuse me of quoting a "corrupt Bible" yet ask me to tell you what Jesus taught — a contradiction.

Muslims believe the original Injīl (Gospel) was revealed to Jesus (ʿĪsā عليه السلام) by God. What exists today in the Bible includes traces of truth, but also clear additions, contradictions, and human alterations, even admitted by many Christian scholars.

Jesus, like all prophets, taught pure monotheism:

> “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is One.” – Mark 12:29

He never said he was God, never called for worship of himself, and never described a Trinity.

3. “Isa is Not Jesus”?

You claim “we don’t even know who Isa is.” This is ignorance of basic linguistics and regional variation.

"Yeshua" is the Hebrew form of Jesus.

"Iesous" is the Greek rendering.

"Isa" is the Arabic rendering.

Names vary across languages. Does calling Jesus “Yeshua” instead of “Jesus” change who he is? Certainly not.

The Qur’an confirms that Isa ibn Maryam (Jesus son of Mary) is the Messiah, born of a virgin, who performed miracles, and will return before the end times — all without being divine.

4. “Is Allah the Third of Three?”

You quote the Qur’an wrongly. Let’s clarify:

> “They have certainly disbelieved who say, ‘Allah is the third of three.’ But there is no deity except one God.” – Qur’an 5:73

This verse refutes Trinitarian doctrine, not because Christians literally say “Allah is the third of three,” but because Christian Trinitarianism affirms:

The Father is God

The Son is God

The Holy Spirit is God

Yet they are not three Gods but one — a contradiction that even Christian theologians admit is “a mystery” and logically incoherent.

The Qur’an challenges this idea — that you affirm three distinct persons in “one essence” and still insist it's monotheism. It’s not.

5. “Allah is not Omnipresent?”

This is a misunderstanding of Islamic theology.

Islam teaches:

Allah is not part of creation.

He is not physically “in” the universe, because that would make Him bound by space.

But His knowledge, power, will, and hearing are everywhere.

> “There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.” – Qur’an 42:11

Your assumption that God must be “everywhere in substance” is a Greek philosophical idea, not a prophetic one. The omnipresence of God is about His attributes, not about spatial extension.

6. “Why Do You Reject Jewish and Christian Scriptures?”

Muslims do not reject the original Torah or Gospel — we reject the corrupted versions filled with contradictions and human additions:

Who wrote the Gospels? Anonymous authors.

How many versions of the Bible? Dozens.

Who authorized the canon? Church councils, not prophets.

Islam honors Moses and Jesus, but follows the final revelation: the Qur’an, which is preserved letter for letter since its revelation.

7. “Kissing the Black Stone?”

You bring up the Black Stone without understanding Islamic theology.

Muslims do not worship the Black Stone.

The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ kissed it as a symbolic act, just as Moses was instructed to make the bronze serpent or raise his staff — symbolic obedience.

> "I know you are only a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet kiss you, I would not have kissed you." – Umar ibn al-Khattab (رضي الله عنه)

This is not idolatry. Islam is the strictest monotheistic faith on Earth.

8. “Islam is a Mixture of Other Religions”?

This is not only false but hypocritical. All true religion came from one source: God.

Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus — they all preached submission to One God.

Islam did not copy, but restored the original message that others corrupted.

Christianity itself includes elements borrowed from paganism:

December 25th (pagan solstice festival)

Trinity (modeled after pagan triads)

Eucharist (eating the "body" of God)

So who borrowed from whom?

9. “God Never Spoke to Muhammad”?

God spoke to Muhammad ﷺ through revelation via Jibril (Gabriel) — just as He spoke to other prophets.

The Qur’an remains unchanged, preserved, and recited worldwide with no variations. That is miraculous and unmatched.

10. “Is God’s Name YHWH?”

The name “YHWH” is not pronounced and has no vowels — its pronunciation is uncertain.

God’s name in Hebrew simply means “He Is” or “The Existing One”.

In Aramaic (Jesus’s language), “Elaha” is used — which is strikingly close to Allah.

“Allah” is not a new name. Arab Christians even today use “Allah” in their Bibles. It is the proper name of God in Arabic.

Final Word:

Mockery is not a substitute for truth.

> “Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good speech, and argue with them in the best manner.” – Qur’an 16:125

I invite you to reflect sincerely and step away from slander. You claim to love God — then submit to Him alone, without associating partners with Him. That is the essence of Islam.

If you wish for a sincere dialogue, I welcome it.
If you only seek mockery, then your argument has already failed.

BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh honesttalk21 NairaLTQ

Why you people refuse to answer this question 👇

Where did Jesus ever say the Holy Spirit is God or part of a triune being?
Answer: Nowhere.

TenQ gofh NairaLTQ

honesttalk21:
Well,JimRohn's responses are rooted in Islamic teachings and offer clarity on complex topics, while gohf's questions reflect a genuine desire to understand. Their dialogue exemplifies respectful and informative interfaith discourse.

Yes! In my responses, I strive to remain firmly rooted in Islamic teachings while offering thoughtful insights into complex theological and philosophical matters.

TenQ:
You believed the lies of Mohammed!?

What did Jesus teach about Prayers?
What did Jesus teach about Marriage?
What did Jesus teach about Giving to God?
What did Jesus teach about your Neighbours?
What did Jesus teach about Forgiveness?
What did Jesus teach about Faith?
What did Jesus teach about the Holy Spirit?

Please tell me, I am all ears!


Is God not our helper?
Matthew 12:31-32
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Who is the Holy Spirit?


Allah is WRONG with this Question. 0/100

Not one Christian say Allah is the third of three!

If Allah is the Third of THREE, who are the other TWO according to the Quran?



How can you lie to yourself and be at peace except the spirit of lies dwell richly in you?
If Allah cannot define the trinity correctly, how much more his slaves!



Taoheed is in the Quran!?
I saw it yesterday!

There is NO difference between the Taoheed of Allah and the Taoheed of Satan.
Not one difference!





Exactly like satan!


The implication of the Taoheed is terribly against Allah
Taoheed means that Allah is NOT Omnipresent
Taoheed means that Allah is NOT Omnipotent
Taoheed means that Allah is NOT Omniscient

This is a serious problem!

Your ignorance is only rivaled by your arrogance. You throw around verses and accusations like a blind man swinging in the dark, not realizing that your very Bible convicts you of hypocrisy.

> “You believed the lies of Muhammad!?”

No—I believe in the last and final Prophet of the One true God, the same God Jesus (peace be upon him) bowed to with his face on the ground. Meanwhile, you believe the lie that God became a man, bled, and died at the hands of His own creation, yet call that salvation? You worship a crucified man and then dare accuse others of believing lies?

Let’s dissect your sanctimonious list with your own book:

> What did Jesus teach about prayer?

He prayed like a Muslim:

“And he fell on his face and prayed” (Matthew 26:39).

When was the last time you fell on your face before God? Or do you pray like pagans—singing, dancing, and clapping?

> What did Jesus teach about marriage?

He upheld the law:

“Think not that I came to abolish the law...” (Matthew 5:17).

That law allowed polygyny (multiple wives), which you now label immoral. So is Jesus immoral or are you just dishonest?

> What did Jesus teach about giving to God?

He taught sincerity:

“Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing” (Matthew 6:3).

Meanwhile, your modern churches have turned giving into a tax scam and a business, pimping Jesus for profit.

> What did Jesus teach about neighbors?

He said love them. Yet your countries have bombed entire Muslim nations, killing neighbors by the millions. Do you mean “love thy neighbor” or “drone thy neighbor”?

> What did Jesus teach about forgiveness?

He said to forgive—but you demand blood for sin! You don’t actually believe in God’s mercy. You believe He needs to watch someone die before He can forgive.

> What did Jesus teach about the Holy Spirit?

According to your own confusion, it’s either God, not God, or a person. Which one is it? The truth: the Holy Spirit is Jibreel (Gabriel), a mighty angel, not “God the Bird” floating around with dove wings.

Now to your real problem: the Qur’an destroys the lie of the trinity.

> “No Christian says Allah is the third of three!”

Really? Then why is your Nicene Creed a trinitarian formula of “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—one God in three Persons”? That is three persons = one god, a math problem no prophet ever preached.

Qur’an 5:73:

> “They are disbelievers who say: Allah is one of three…”

Stop lying. The Qur’an rebukes your false doctrines before you even open your mouth.

> “If Allah is the third of three, who are the other two?”

That’s the point. He’s not. Allah says He is One, indivisible, without partner, child, or mother. Your confused theology is being exposed by divine revelation. Don't try to mock the Qur’an when it is exposing your pagan formulations.

Now your most blasphemous claim:

> “There is no difference between Tawheed of Allah and Tawheed of Satan.”

Congratulations. You've crossed the line into full-blown kufr (disbelief). Satan never taught Tawheed, he taught rebellion. It is your trinity that resembles Satanic doctrine—dividing God into pieces, confusing people, and inviting them to worship the creation.

> “Tawheed means Allah is not omnipresent, omnipotent, or omniscient”

False. Tawheed affirms that Allah is absolutely omnipotent, all-knowing, and perfectly aware of everything. Your confusion arises because you think God must be physically inside creation to know about it—how small is your god?

Our Lord does not need to incarnate into a man, urinate, or be crucified to demonstrate power or knowledge. That’s your weakness, not ours.

Final word:

If the Spirit of Truth were in you, you’d recognize Islam is the continuation and completion of the message of Jesus—who was a prophet, a servant, and a slave of God. But you’ve replaced monotheism with man-worship and then dared to mock those who call to the original message.

> “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free” (John 8:32)

The truth is La ilaha illAllah. There is no god but Allah. And Muhammad ﷺ is His final messenger.

You can mock, but your words only prove your defeat. Keep quoting the Bible—it buries your false creed deeper with every verse.

BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh honesttalk21

TenQ:
So that we are on the same page

Who is the Holy Spirit according to Jesus?
Who is the Holy Spirit according to Allah?

It is not productive to respond to questions with more questions, especially when the same inquiries are being repeated multiple times.

If there is no intention to engage in a meaningful exchange, please let us know if you would prefer to end this conversation.

➡️ Where did Jesus ever say the Holy Spirit is God or part of a triune being?
Answer: Nowhere. Before I can answer the new question.

TenQ gofh NairaLTQ

gohf:
so everyone who preached and taught one God is a Muslim and a prophet of Allah? And that is the gospel the beginning and end of it, the total complete gospel

Your attempt to reduce the Islamic understanding of prophethood and revelation to a caricature is both misleading and intellectually lazy.

Islam doesn't claim that just anyone who says "one God" automatically becomes a prophet or a Muslim. That’s a gross oversimplification. According to Islamic theology, a prophet is someone specifically chosen and commissioned by Allah—not self-appointed—who conveys revelation and guidance from the Creator to humanity. Their message is not just "God is one" in a vacuum, but a comprehensive way of life based on divine law, ethics, worship, and accountability.

So no, merely uttering "one God" doesn’t make someone a prophet or a Muslim. Pharaoh acknowledged God’s existence, yet he’s condemned in the Qur’an. Satan himself believes in one God, but he is accursed. Islam is submission on God’s terms, not on yours.

As for your dismissive remark—“that is the gospel, the beginning and end of it”—you’re mistaken again. From an Islamic view, the true Gospel (Injeel) given to Jesus (peace be upon him) was divine revelation, not the human-written compilations people call "the gospel" today. Islam affirms that the original messages of all prophets were unified in essence: submission to the One God, righteousness, and preparing for the Hereafter. That message reached its final and perfected form with the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad ﷺ.

If you’re going to criticize Islamic theology, at least do so accurately and honestly. Strawman arguments only expose the weakness of your position.

BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh honesttalk21

gohf:
Jimrohn I heard Muhmmad was asked three questions by the Jews who were asked to verify if he was indeed a prophet, one of which was about the ruach. And he said he will ask Gabriel and give an answer within three days but 1st day passed, third day came, even up the many days later he didn't show up.

I don't believe this is true, right creativeorbit, I mean even heard there are two versions of Muhmmad, the first of 12 years and the other version that ran away and faced mecca instead of Jerusalem brought about other confusing parts of the qran

What you just spewed is a perfect cocktail of ignorance, distortion, and lazy internet folklore.

Let’s break your nonsense apart.

First, the story of the Prophet ﷺ delaying his answer about the Rūḥ: Yes, it happened. He was asked about the soul, and he said he would answer the next day—without saying “In shā’ Allāh.” So Allah delayed the revelation to correct this. And what did the Qur’an do? It exposed the mistake and gave the answer. That’s called divine discipline and transparency—not the fantasy of a man trying to "fake prophethood." If he were inventing it, why would he make himself look human and correctable? You wouldn’t find one false prophet in history with the guts to include that.

But you don’t even understand the very story you’re trying to weaponize. You parrot it secondhand without context, hoping to sound profound. Newsflash: repeating things you barely grasp doesn't make you smart—it just makes you loud and wrong.

Then you mention this idiotic claim of “two versions of Muhammad” over 12 years? That’s just incoherent drivel. There were no “versions.” There was one Prophet ﷺ who bore 13 years of torture and boycott in Makkah, then established a model state in Madinah after Hijrah. That isn’t “running away.” That’s called strategic patience followed by decisive leadership—something foreign to people whose own religious traditions are riddled with cowardice, compromise, and corruption.

And your cheap jab about the Qiblah change? Read the Qur’an before you comment on it. Allah himself changed the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Makkah to sever the spiritual dependency Muslims had on corrupted Jewish and Christian traditions. It was a bold, divine command—not some random identity shift. Only someone confused by his own religious baggage would find that “confusing.”

What’s actually confusing is your incoherent rant filled with conspiracy-theory nonsense and YouTube-level scholarship. You’re so desperate to attack Islam that you’ll cling to anything, no matter how baseless. But here’s the truth you’re avoiding:

Islam is the only religion whose Book has been preserved word-for-word for 1400+ years.

The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ brought a revelation unmatched in eloquence, truth, and power.

No one—not even the Jews who questioned him—could match or refute the Qur’an.

Your mockery only exposes your weakness, not ours.

So if you're going to talk about Islam, come correct. Otherwise, keep your incoherent fairytales and historical illiteracy to yourself. We’re not here to babysit your ignorance.

BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh honesttalk21

NairaLTQ:
Sorry,
How do you know what Jesus preached?
Do you know how Jesus described the Holy Spirit?

What is Trinity according to Allah?
What is Trinity according to Christians?




What is the difference between the Taoheed of Allah and the Taoheed of Satan?

You ask: “How do you know what Jesus preached?”

We know what Jesus (ʿĪsā عليه السلام) preached because Allah told us in the Qur’an, not from the council-edited confusion you call a Bible. Your Bible was tampered with by men — ours is preserved by God.

Jesus preached Tawheed — pure monotheism — and that’s exactly what the Qur’an affirms:

> "Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path."
— Qur’an 3:51

This is word-for-word what Jesus would have said — and it's the exact opposite of the Trinity lie you inherited from Rome, not from Christ.

You ask: “How did Jesus describe the Holy Spirit?”

Let’s turn the question around:

➡️ Where did Jesus ever say the Holy Spirit is God or part of a triune being?
Answer: Nowhere.

In your own Bible, Jesus calls the Spirit a Helper, not God (John 14:16–17). A helper is not equal to the One who sends him.

Jesus never preached your man-made “third person of the Trinity” fiction. That’s a Roman invention, not divine revelation.

You ask: “What is Trinity according to Allah?”

Simple.

> "They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.'"
— Qur’an 5:73

In Islam, the “Trinity” is rejected outright as a man-made shirk (polytheism). Allah is One, not three-in-one — not a partnership, not a divine committee.

You ask: “What is Trinity according to Christians?”

That’s the funniest part. Christians themselves don’t agree on it.

Some say God = Father + Son + Holy Spirit, “co-equal” and “co-eternal.”

Others say the Son is begotten but not created.

Still others say they’re not three gods but “one essence in three persons.”

It's philosophical spaghetti — not scripture. Even your Bible never uses the word "Trinity" — not once. It was invented centuries after Jesus, at the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, under a pagan emperor.

Jesus never taught this nonsense. You worship a church doctrine, not the God of Jesus.

You ask: “What is the difference between the Tawheed of Allah and the Tawheed of Satan?”

Now this is pure foolishness — and blasphemy.

Let me educate you since you clearly don’t know the difference between Divine Monotheism and demonic lies:

⚔️ Tawheed of Allah:

Pure, indivisible Oneness of God.

No partners, no sons, no images, no idols.

Worship Allah alone, without mediators.

The creed of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad — all upon them be peace.

🔥 “Tawheed” of Satan? That’s your Trinity:

A fake god-man-spirit trio.

A “son” born of a woman, yet called God.

A god that dies, then comes back, yet is eternal.

Worshiping a human being who ate, slept, bled, and cried — and then calling that man “the Creator.”

That’s not monotheism — that’s idolatry.

Even Satan wouldn’t dare ascribe a son to God. That’s your work.

> “And they say, ‘The Most Merciful has taken a son.’ You have said a monstrous thing."
— Qur’an 19:88–89

🔚 Final Word:

You come to Muslims quoting a Book that:

Was written decades after Jesus,

Was edited, censored, and corrupted,

Contains contradictions, pagan inserts, and forged epistles,

Yet you think you’re qualified to question the Qur’an?

Jesus (ʿalayhi as-salām) worshipped One God. You worship a man, call him God, then pretend that’s what Jesus taught?

You’ve inherited a false creed and you’re too arrogant to admit it.

Tawheed is the truth of all Prophets. Trinity is the lie of church councils.

Pick your side.


BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh honesttalk21

TenQ:
Who are those who write a book with their hands and say it is from Allah?
Are these people not Abubakar and Uthman?

Did they not write a book each and say it is from Allah?

Where was the Qur'an of Mohammed?



It is a miracle that you disbelieve Allah to believe your own lies.

I challenge you to find just one verse of the Qur'an that says that the Torah or Injeel are corrupted.

Interestingly, Allah says the exact opposite.






When I tell you that you disbelieve your Allah for the opinion of fake scholars, you will nod your head in disbelief.

Is the original Torah and Injeel the Books of Allah containing his words?

Qur'an 6:115
"And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing."


Please, tell me how the words of Allah failed as humans were able to corrupt Allah's words.


Tell me why Allah couldn't protect his own books.

Did Allah make a mistake by entrusting the Torah to the Rabbi's for keeping?

Quran 5:44
Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allāh] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allāh, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price [i.e., worldly gain]. And whoever does not judge by what Allāh has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.




Unfortunately, the Qur'an is the most corrupt book on earth
Let me show you
a. No Muslim has a copy of the Qur'an of Mohammed and a Tame Sheep ate part of it.
Till today,
-the verse of Rajam was eaten up by the sheep
-the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times is missing.
b. Abubakar compiled his own Qur'an afresh with missing verses again.
c. Instead of duplicating Abubakar's Qur'an, Uthman made his own copies adding verse he thought should be added to Abubakar's Qur'an.
d. Ibn Masud has a different Qur'an from Uthmans Qur'an.
e. The Sahabas say that much of the Qur'an is lost
f. Mohammed received 7 Ahruf of the Qur'an. Today, we cannot find just one out of the seven Ahruf. If you know their names show me.
g. Who authorized the reshuffling of the chapters and verses of the Qur'an.

Qur'an 5:13
But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

Tell me, how the order of the verses in the Qur'an were changed like Qur'an 5:13?

Sorry sir!
Either you were fooled by Islamic scholars or you refuse the truth.

I challenge you on any of these should you desire proofs.


I laugh in Swahili!
Can you tell me why Quran 5:3 is not the last verse in the Qur'an either by revelation or by recitation.

If your religion was complete by the revelation of Qur'an 5:3, what was the reason for the later revelation?

Can you see how Illogical the verses of the Qur'an are!




So, you swallowed this lie by your scholars!?
SMH!
Mohammed can both read and write. If you need evidence, I will shown you from your Hadiths.

An Ummi is not an illiterate person, he is one who is not verses in the scriptures. Just like a Lawyer is said to be a Learned person, so it is with an Ummi. It doesn't mean that the others are illiterates.

Did Allah not define who an Ummi is!? Should I teach you?

Qur'an 2:78
"And among them are Ummiyyun who do not know the Scripture except [empty] wishes."

People who do not know the scripture are the Ummi dear



Muslims can tell lies for Africa.
a. Show me just one verse where Allah says he refers to the previous scriptures
b. Please, when Mohammed placed his hands on the Torah and said "I believe in the and the one who sent thee..." Was he telling lies?
c. Why did Allah tell Mohammed to ask the people of the corrupt book if he had issues with the revelations he was having ?

Qur'an 10:94
"So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about what We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you..."

Is this wisdom or stupidity?



You have indeed mocked the Qur'an my dear as a book full of errors and contradictions that makes the wise blush with shame.

Otherwise, tell us
1. Does the sun set in some murky waters?
Allah and your prophet thinks so!
2. Do sperms become babies?
Allah and your prophet thinks so!



If you have questions, Furnish me one at a time as you have have swallowed a LIE of the Al-Makr the best Deceiver!

First of all, your entire rant is a confused mess of half-learned missionary memes, twisted Qur’anic quotes, and deliberate lies. So let me fix your delusions — one point at a time — with unapologetic clarity.

❌ “Abu Bakr and Uthman wrote the Qur’an!”

🔨 False. Neither Abu Bakr nor Uthman wrote the Qur’an and claimed it's from Allah. The Qur’an was revealed verbally to the Prophet ﷺ, who had it memorized, written down, and recited in public during his lifetime.

Abu Bakr’s role? Compiling what was already known and preserved — not inventing a book.

Uthman’s role? Standardizing the dialect to preserve unity, not adding verses. No “new book,” no “invention.”

Your logic is like saying people who compiled Shakespeare’s plays are the authors of Macbeth. You sound desperate.

📖 “Where’s the Qur’an of Muhammad?”

You’re holding it — preserved word-for-word, letter-for-letter, by millions of huffaz (memorizers) from the Prophet’s time till today. No other religion on earth can make this claim. Your Bible? Not even close.

🔁 “The Qur’an never says the Torah and Injeel are corrupted!”

Wrong again. You conveniently ignore the very verses that expose your deception. Here's a small sample:

Qur’an 2:79 – “Woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and say, ‘This is from Allah.’”

Qur’an 4:46 – “They distort the words from their [right] places.”

Qur’an 5:13 – “They forgot a good part of what they were reminded of.”

These are clear textual corruptions, not just interpretation errors.

So yes, Allah entrusted the Books to rabbis and priests — and they betrayed that trust, and Allah exposed it.

🐑 “A sheep ate verses of the Qur’an!”

🤣 This is where your ignorance becomes comic.

That hadith is about a paper, not the Qur’an itself. The Qur’an wasn’t preserved on goat skins — it was preserved in the hearts of hundreds of Sahaba. The so-called “lost” verses were either abrogated in recitation or never part of the Mushaf, as authenticated by scholars.

You're quoting narrations out of context like a man reading headlines and claiming he knows the law.

📜 “Ibn Mas’ud had a different Qur’an!”

🛑 Another lie. Ibn Mas’ud’s personal mushaf didn’t include the basmalah or certain surahs — not because he denied them, but because he was compiling partial notes, not the final Mushaf. He later accepted Uthman’s compilation like the rest of the Sahaba.

🧠 “Qur’an 5:3 says religion is complete, yet more verses came after!”

Basic tafsir crushes this foolishness. That verse refers to the completion of the legal Shari’ah — not the final verse chronologically. Later verses were revealed for individual rulings, not foundational doctrine.

Your failure to distinguish chronological revelation from legislative finality is your own ignorance.

✍️ “Ummi doesn’t mean illiterate!”

The Prophet ﷺ being Ummi means exactly what scholars agree on: unlettered, i.e., unable to read or write — which makes the Qur’an even more miraculous.

You said “Ummi means not versed in the scripture.” Did you miss the irony? He wasn’t versed in any scripture — yet he brought the greatest scripture known to mankind.

Your argument proves our miracle.

🪓 “Show one verse where Allah says the previous scriptures were corrupted!”

We already gave you four. Here's a fifth for fun:

Qur’an 5:41 – “…They alter words after they had been put in their right places…”

This is beyond dispute. If you still deny it, you're not debating — you're evangelizing with a blindfold on.

🧠 “Qur’an says sun sets in murky water!”

More stupidity. Dhul-Qarnayn saw it that way — from his perspective. The Qur’an doesn’t say the sun literally sets in mud. Even your GPS app says “sunset at 6:15pm” — does the sun drop into the ocean?

Meanwhile your Bible says:

Earth is flat (Isaiah 11:12)

Has four corners (Revelation 7:1)

Sun stood still for hours (Joshua 10:13)

Don’t throw stones in a glass church.
🔬 “Sperm becomes a baby? LOL!”

This was written in 7th-century Arabia, long before microscopes. The Qur’an accurately describes:

Nutfa (fluid drop – sperm)

‘Alaqah (clot – zygote stage)

Mudghah (chewed lump – embryo)

Bones clothed in flesh – fetal growth

Modern embryologists like Dr. Keith Moore confirmed the accuracy. Your laughter is from ignorance, not science.

🗣️ “Muhammad placed his hand on the Torah and said he believed it!”

Yes — but context matters. He affirmed what was originally revealed, not what’s been corrupted over centuries.

🤡 WORDS ADVICE

You mock the Qur’an, yet you can’t even present a single contradiction from the Qur’an that withstands classical tafsir. You parrot online missionary nonsense, cherry-pick weak hadiths, and ignore scholarly consensus.

Your Bible is a jigsaw puzzle of anonymous authors, missing gospels, Greek fabrications, and books thrown out by your own councils — and you think you have the intellectual high ground?

Sit down. The Qur’an is intact. You just can’t handle that truth.

🔥 Challenge returned: I’ll answer any of your claims — bring them one by one — but I dare you to answer this:

Where in the Bible does Jesus ever say “I am God, worship me”?

You won’t find it. But I can find 10 verses calling Jesus “a man”, “a prophet”, and “a servant of God”.

You came to mock Islam. Instead, you exposed your religion and your ignorance.

We stand on the Qur’an — preserved, perfect, divine.

You stand on a Bible of contradictions, redactions, and human errors.

May Allah guide you — or break your arrogance. Ameen.


CreativeOrbit honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ gofh

honesttalk21:
When some deliberately act deaf, blind and dumb in order to reject the truth you can really not communicate.

You have done more than enough. Who is to be guided right will be.

Guidance is indeed in Allah’s hands, but misrepresenting truth while claiming others are deaf or blind is not sincerity—it’s arrogance.

May Allah guide whom He wills—and expose falsehood for what it is.

gohf:
Quran 16:35 says messengerS 😂😆😂 you are supposed to be honest and know the Quran more than me right?

But what is the mission of messengers but to preach the Clear Message?

And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying],.... A messenger not the messenger 😏

This is what I asked you, "does it mean messengers are sent from every nation, how does this line up with the final messenger when well there are new nations and no more messengers?"

But you change the meaning of the text by patching in Quran 34:28 which calls Muhammad the bringer of the gospel to the world, which agrees with a prophecy that Quran states Jesus made. The issue now is what then is the gospel of Muhammad I have asked the question repeatedly.

None of this verses claim not call Muhammed the last and final prophet.

Is there a verse that says Muhammad is the last and final prophet of Allah and is the greatest as you claim?


I will repeat this question again, what is the good news of Muhammad.

The good news that there is one God is not even news.

The good news is that guidance has come, guidance to what? What is the guidance that there is only one God, how is that guidance that's information.

Or you are specifically telling you that Muhammad was sent as the seal of prophets that you claim means final last and greatest prophet, was to tell the world that there is only one God, and that's the gospel.

You mock verses of the Qur’an with emojis as if ridicule is a substitute for reason. But let’s be clear: your sarcasm only exposes your ignorance, not any flaw in the Qur’an.

You say: “Qur’an 16:35 says messengers 😂😆😂.”
Yes, the verse speaks of messengers. That’s because Allah sent messengers to different nations throughout history, not just one. Qur’an 16:36 clarifies this:

"And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], ‘Worship Allah and avoid Taghut (false gods).’”
That is not a contradiction — it’s a timeline. Many messengers came before Muhammad ﷺ, each to their specific nation. That’s why the Arabic uses "rasūlan" (a messenger) — not the final messenger — because this was describing the pattern before the finality of prophethood.

Now to your desperate question: “Is there a verse that calls Muhammad the last and final prophet?”
Yes. Since you claim to read the Qur’an, read it properly:

“Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets.” (Qur’an 33:40)

"Khātam an-Nabiyyīn" means the final — not just another in the line. The Arabic term "khātam" means seal, closure, finality, not continuation. Every tafsir from the earliest generations confirms this. So your attempt to act like this isn’t explicit only works on people who don’t know Arabic — or don’t read the Qur’an seriously.

And don’t think you’ve made some groundbreaking point by saying “the Qur’an says he brought a message to the world, so what is his gospel?”
This is a classic Christian projection — trying to force the Qur’anic message into your gospel-shaped box.

Let me break it down:

“And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to all creation.” (Qur’an 21:107)
“And We have not sent you except comprehensively to mankind…” (Qur’an 34:28)

The Qur’anic “gospel” is not like your Greek "euangelion", full of mythology and crucified gods. The “good news” of Muhammad ﷺ is guidance, light, and a complete way of life — based on the pure Tawḥīd of all prophets, completed and preserved without corruption.

You said: “The good news that there is one God is not even news.”
Only someone drowning in spiritual arrogance would say something that foolish.

When humanity is drowning in idolatry, shirk, man-worship, priesthood, saints, false gods, and systems of oppression — yes, being called back to Tawḥīd is not just news, it is salvation.

The Qur’an didn’t come to amuse philosophers like you. It came to establish:

That Allah is One — no partners, no sons, no intermediaries.

That worship belongs to Him alone — not through saints, not through prophets, not through church hierarchies.

That guidance is not vague emotion but a concrete Shari’ah — prayer, charity, justice, morality, and divine law.

You ask “guidance to what?”
Guidance to the straight path — Sirat al-Mustaqeem — submission to the Creator alone, in every aspect of life.

And before you act like this isn’t enough: the same “one God” message was preached by Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (peace be upon them all). But it was corrupted by those who came after. Muhammad ﷺ came not with “new entertainment,” but with the final preserved truth — clarified, perfected, universal.

So mock all you want, but you’re mocking what you don’t understand. You’re not asking questions — you’re twisting verses, demanding that Islam conform to your Christian frameworks.

But Islam doesn’t revolve around your definitions. It stands on its own — complete, final, and preserved. If you want truth, humble yourself and seek it. If you want games, you’ll only be exposing your own ignorance.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

gohf:
you say you obey Jesus, the command of Jesus is this love God and love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemies bless and not curse. And of these or which other ones do you call "later theological innovations falsely attributeed to Jesus"?

By the way you avoid many questions, one of which was, what is worship? What does it mean to worship God?

This was how I put the question
why not tell us how God revealed that purpose to the first man, through Jesus and through Muhammad and tell us what does worship God mean, what does it mean to worship God?


CreativeOrbit AntiChristian TenQ gohf

You quote Jesus saying, “Love God and love your neighbor,” as if that statement alone defines the full message of his mission. Let me educate you properly, because your selective quoting doesn't impress anyone who actually understands scripture—yours or mine.

Yes, Jesus (peace be upon him) taught love, mercy, and justice. So did every prophet before him—including Muhammad ﷺ. But what you conveniently leave out is that Jesus also taught obedience to God, strict monotheism, and submission to God's will—not to himself, not to a trinity, not to some fabricated atonement theology cooked up by Paul and the Church centuries later.

So when I refer to “later theological innovations falsely attributed to Jesus,” I’m talking about:

The doctrine of the Trinity (which Jesus never preached),

The idea that Jesus is God or the "Son of God" in a literal divine sense,

The atonement myth that God needed blood to forgive sins.

None of these were taught by Jesus. They were injected by councils, creeds, and corrupt theologians long after he was gone. So don't quote Jesus the Prophet and then sneak in beliefs from Paul the Innovator. That’s intellectual dishonesty.

As for your question about worship, don’t act as if Muslims have no concept of it. In Islam, worship is not just lip service or emotional sentiment. Worship (ʿibādah) means complete submission, obedience, love, reverence, and servitude to Allah alone—in belief, action, and law. It includes prayer, fasting, charity, and moral conduct—but also rejecting all false gods and partners.

You ask how God revealed that purpose to the first man? Through clear tawheed: worship your Creator alone, obey His guidance, avoid sin, and live with accountability.

To Adam, God revealed the path of submission and repentance.

To Jesus, God revealed the Injīl, calling Bani Israel back to tawheed.

To Muhammad ﷺ, God revealed the Qur’an—the final, uncorrupted message, universal for all time.

You avoid the real question: if you claim to obey Jesus, then why don’t you worship the same God he worshipped? Jesus prayed to God, submitted to God, called people to God—not to himself.
Yet you worship Jesus and pretend that’s obedience?

That’s not love. That’s shirk. And no amount of sentimental cherry-picking will change that.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

gohf:
You asked was the first visit of Jesus sufficient, according to christains? The answer is yes.
Why is he coming back to fulfill God's word and save those who obeyed God.

I answered your questions but these were questions I asked you

"Now based on your own view of his mission being interrupted clear to clarify how you came about that understanding? Is it because he left and is coming back?
So can we say that he succeeded his mission before he left, and you could also tell us what his mission from God was?"

Even though you first claimed he did not fail, but now you call it a failed mission. 😏

Don’t twist my words to cover the contradictions in your theology. I never said Jesus (peace be upon him) failed in his mission according to Islam — you are the one who inserted your flawed Christian assumptions into the discussion.

Now let’s dismantle your claim step by step.

You said the first visit of Jesus was sufficient. If that’s the case, then answer plainly: Why is he coming back? You said “to fulfill God’s word” and “save those who obeyed God.” That proves his mission is incomplete, and by your own words, not mine. That’s not sufficiency — that’s unfinished business.

You can’t have it both ways. Either he completed his mission and doesn’t need to return — or he didn’t complete it and must return. Your contradiction exposes the weakness of your doctrine.

Now let me clarify the Islamic view that you’re trying to confuse:
In Islam, Jesus never failed. He was sent to the Children of Israel to confirm the Torah and deliver the Gospel. He fulfilled his mission of calling to Tawheed (monotheism), but his people betrayed him, not God or his mission. Allah raised him before they could harm him, proving that no one has power over God’s chosen prophet. He will return not because he failed, but to complete a divine task that was never part of his original mission: to break the cross, kill the false messiah, and establish justice under Islam.

This is not a correction of a failed mission. It is a victory over the lies made about him, including the claim of divinity and crucifixion — lies your religion is built upon.

So don’t throw around confused questions as if they expose Islam. All they expose is your desperation to defend a theology full of holes.

Now I’ve answered you with clarity. Can you do the same — without hiding behind circular logic and emotional theology?

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

gohf:
so according to you the Torah which the Quran mentions several times and which Jesus confirmed is corrupted... Because it was edited by human hands. Who edited the Quran you are quoting was it angels? 😂

Your answer, explanation and proof is that the Quran it's says so 😆😂😆😂😆😂

Even the Quran 5:3 you cut out off, doesn't support your point that the Quran is self sufficient 🤣🤣

Now you are responding that Muhammad had no knowledge of the previous to even make what he wrote a complete version. So according to you one can claim to be ignorant and still make a complete text.

Does the Quran not refer to the Torah and encourages Muslims to check it for guidance, wisdom, and confirmation, particularly regarding the teachings of prophets and the law. The Quran views the Torah as a previous revelation from God to Moses, containing divine words and teachings.

Several Quran verses direct Muslims to the Torah. One such verse is Surah Al-Ma'idah, verse 44 (5:44), which emphasizes that the Torah is a law from God that should be followed. This verse also mentions that those who do not judge by the law sent down by God are disbelievers, unjust, and transgressors. Another relevant verse is Surah 3:3 (Family of `Imran), which states that God sent down the Torah as a guide to mankind. Additionally, Surah Al-Ma'idah, verse 46 (5:46), discusses Jesus confirming the Torah and the Gospel.

Your entire argument collapses under the weight of its own contradictions and ignorance. So let me dismantle your claims piece by piece.

> "According to you the Torah which the Quran mentions several times and which Jesus confirmed is corrupted..."

Yes, and not according to me, but according to the Quran itself. Allah says:

> "So woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, then say, 'This is from Allah,' to trade it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."
[Surah Al-Baqarah 2:79]

This verse directly condemns human tampering of divine scripture. So your attempt to weaponize Quranic references to the Torah against the Quran only exposes your inability to grasp what you're quoting.

Yes, the Torah was originally a divine revelation. But no, the current version held by Jews and Christians is not that same original revelation. That’s why the Quran affirms the Torah in its original form, but also criticizes those who altered it.

> "Who edited the Quran you are quoting? Was it angels? 😂"

No editing needed. Unlike your corrupted scriptures, the Quran was orally revealed, memorized by thousands, and written down meticulously during the lifetime of the Prophet ﷺ — and then compiled by the Companions under the Caliph Abu Bakr and finalized under Uthman (رضي الله عنهم). So yes, angels brought it, and Allah promised to preserve it Himself:

> "Indeed, We sent down the Dhikr (the Quran), and indeed, We will be its Guardian."
[Surah Al-Hijr 15:9]

So laugh all you want — but you're laughing at Allah’s guarantee, not mine. That’s a war you won’t win.

> "Even the Quran 5:3 you cut out off, doesn't support your point that the Quran is self sufficient 🤣🤣"

Clearly you didn’t even read 5:3 properly:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
[Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:3]

Perfected. Completed. Chosen.
What part of that don’t you understand? When a system is perfected, you don’t need to go backward to corrupted texts for confirmation or guidance. The Quran supersedes all prior scriptures. That’s not my claim — that’s explicit revelation.

> "Now you're responding that Muhammad had no knowledge of the previous [books]..."

Exactly. And that’s part of the miracle. The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ was unlettered (ummi) — he couldn’t read or write, and he didn’t have access to Jewish or Christian scripture. Yet he brought a book that corrects their errors, exposes their corruptions, and establishes eternal guidance. That’s not “ignorance,” that’s divine revelation.

> "Does the Quran not refer to the Torah and encourages Muslims to check it for guidance..."

No, the Quran refers to the original revelation, not the mutilated versions preserved by priests and rabbis. You're cherry-picking without context. When the Quran speaks about previous scriptures, it is acknowledging their original divine origin — not affirming the distorted versions in your hands today.

In fact, the Quran warns us not to be fooled:

> "And indeed, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book."
[Surah Aal-Imran 3:78]

So when Jesus is said to “confirm the Torah,” it refers to the original revelation, not your modern redacted editions full of contradictions, incest, anthropomorphism, and tribal bias.

In conclusion:

The Quran is self-sufficient and final. It abrogates prior scriptures.

The Torah and Gospel were divine, but no longer exist in their original form.

You appeal to corrupt texts to attack a book you clearly haven't studied.

The Quran speaks with divine clarity. Your argument speaks with desperation and confusion.

So the next time you try to mock the Quran with memes and emojis, bring something stronger than laughter and misquotations. You’re punching up — and it shows.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

TenQ:
I don't seem to understand you!
Are you saying that the God of the Jews and Christians is unjust by commanding the elimination of some tribes?

Let me make it very clear to you:

What I’m saying is that no true and just God—worthy of worship—commands blanket massacres of tribes, including women, children, and animals, as described in parts of the Bible. If your claim is that God ordered genocide, then you are the one ascribing injustice to God, not me.

Islam rejects the notion that God is unjust, ever. Allah is Al-‘Adl – The Just – and He does not command evil. The Qur’an says: “Indeed, Allah does not do injustice, [even] as much as an atom’s weight” (Surah An-Nisa 4:40).

So if you’re defending verses that describe indiscriminate slaughter of entire peoples, then yes — Islam stands firmly against that, and we have every right to question the authenticity and preservation of those texts, especially when they contradict the very nature of God’s justice and mercy.

Don’t twist the conversation. I am not projecting injustice onto God — [b]I am rejecting your flawed, man-altered depictions of Him. [/b]If that offends you, be offended with clarity.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

TenQ:
You make some fundamental assumptions
1. Who is ISA? For as Christians and Jews, we don't know him!
2. Who is Allah? We look in the Scriptures used by the Jews and Christians and we don't know him!

You say someone cannot answer your questions without referencing Christianity BUT can you answer yours without referencing Christianity or Judaism?

As an Example:
1. Who is Israel in the Qur'an?
2. What is the meaning of the names Gabriel and Ishmael?

You misquoted
"This day I have perfected for you your religion..." (Qur’an 5:3)
For it is completely untrue!






Please, if you have questions, throw them to me. But also be ready to answer my own questions.

It is glaring to see that it is IMPOSSIBLE that BOTH Christianity and Islam lead to paradise
Do you agree with this statement?


I dislike lies:
According to Qur'an 19:71-72 ALL Muslims will enter the fire at least temporarily . It is a decree of Allah!

Your message is filled with assumptions, misinterpretations, and a tone that demands clarity and correction. So allow me to respond directly and systematically, as a Muslim who stands firmly by the truth of the Qur’an and the finality of Islam.

1. "Who is Isa? We don’t know him!"

That is a deficiency in your own theological framework, not in the Qur’an. Isa (peace be upon him) is the Arabic name for Jesus, son of Mary—the same historical figure revered in Christianity. The difference lies in the Islamic understanding: we reject any claim of divinity assigned to him, as it contradicts the absolute oneness of God. If you claim not to "know him," then you deny your own Scriptures that speak of him.

2. "Who is Allah? We don’t know him!"

Again, this reveals a lack of linguistic and historical awareness. "Allah" is the Arabic word for God, used by Arab Christians and Jews centuries before Islam. Even Christian Arabs today refer to God as "Allah." The Qur’an teaches pure monotheism (Tawheed), which is the same message that was originally brought by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus—before it was altered and distorted by men.

3. "Can you answer your questions without referencing Christianity or Judaism?"

Yes. Islam does not depend on the validation of previous scriptures that were tampered with. However, the Qur’an corrects and confirms the parts of the previous revelations that were true. Our sources are independent in authenticity and superior in preservation. The Qur’an challenges mankind to produce anything like it—not one verse has been matched in 1,400 years.

4. "Who is Israel in the Qur’an?"

Israel refers to Ya'qub (Jacob, peace be upon him)—this is well established in Islamic tradition. It is neither mysterious nor ambiguous. This knowledge is from revelation, not speculation.

5. "What is the meaning of the names Gabriel and Ishmael?"

The meanings of names are not religious proofs. Yes, Gabriel (Jibril) means "God is my strength" and Ishmael (Isma'il) means "God will hear." These are Hebrew names, and Islam affirms the lineage of many prophets from the same Semitic background. But meanings of names have zero bearing on the truth or falsehood of belief.

6. "You misquoted Qur'an 5:3..."

No misquote occurred. The verse states:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion, completed My favor upon you, and have approved for you Islam as your religion." (Qur'an 5:3)

This is clear and direct. If you deny it, then you deny what has been preserved word-for-word for over 14 centuries—unlike the Bible, which has over 30,000 textual variants in the New Testament manuscripts alone.

7. "It is impossible that both Christianity and Islam lead to Paradise. Do you agree?"

Yes, I agree. Truth is not relative. Two contradictory paths cannot both lead to salvation. Islam categorically rejects the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity, and salvation through crucifixion. Christianity affirms those. One must be right; the other must be wrong. Islam is the final and preserved truth, and the Qur’an is its undeniable proof.

8. "According to Qur’an 19:71-72, all Muslims will enter the Fire temporarily."

You deliberately distort the verse. The passage says:

> “And there is none of you except he will pass over it (the Hellfire); this is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.” (Qur’an 19:71–72)

Passing over the Fire does not mean entering it and being punished. The verse clearly distinguishes between the righteous who are saved and the wrongdoers who remain. This "crossing over" is part of the Final Judgment. Stop misrepresenting what the verse says—especially without understanding the Arabic or classical exegesis.

Conclusion

If you truly "dislike lies," then start by rejecting misquotations, theological arrogance, and misrepresentations of Islam. I welcome sincere questions, but if your goal is provocation, know that we are not intimidated by hostile rhetoric.

Islam stands on truth, clarity, and preservation—unshaken by the distortions of man-made theology.

honesttalk21 BibleInterpreta AntiChristian TenQ CreativeOrbit gofh

BibleInterpreta:
I respect your firm grounding in divine justice and ethical interpretation. From Bible interpretation (Internality of Bible) view, the Bible speaks in the language of branches, external stories that point to internal spiritual states. When it says to “destroy Amalek” or “wipe out Canaan,” it’s not a command to commit violence today, but an instruction to uproot egoistic desires within us that block connection to the Creator.
This isn’t a denial of history, but a shift in focus. Taking such verses literally today risks justifying cruelty. Their deeper intent is soul correction, not warfare.
Where Islam emphasizes the clarity and ethical boundaries of God’s commands, Bible emphasizes their symbolic depth and inner application. Both paths seek to bring humanity closer to divine justice and unity.
Let’s preserve the sacred while preventing harm, by elevating our understanding, not weaponizing it.

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Just

Dear BibleInterpreta,

I appreciate your attempt to engage with difficult scriptural texts in a way that seeks moral and spiritual clarity. However, from an Islamic standpoint, your interpretative framework raises several significant concerns—both theological and methodological—that must be addressed directly.

1. Allegorizing Divine Commands: A Risk of Subjectivism

While your appeal to symbolic or internal interpretations may seem spiritually profound, it risks detaching divine revelation from its objective moral and historical grounding. To reinterpret explicit commands such as “destroy Amalek” or “wipe out Canaan” purely as metaphors for internal struggle may feel ethically palatable, but it represents a departure from scriptural integrity and historical accountability.

From the Islamic tradition, we are taught that revelation (wahy) is not ambiguous poetry open to limitless allegory. The Qur’an says:

> “And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things, and as guidance and mercy…” (Qur’an 16:89)

The Qur’an does contain metaphors, yes—but these are clear and deliberate. Legal, historical, and ethical passages are not to be spiritualized into abstraction in a way that nullifies their moral implications.

2. Rewriting Difficult History Does Not Redeem It

You say, “This isn’t a denial of history, but a shift in focus.” Respectfully, such reframing borders on revisionism. Scripture must be read with reverence, but also honesty. If there are problematic or violent directives in earlier scriptures, the answer is not to spiritualize them away, but to acknowledge the need for later, clarifying revelation—which is precisely what Islam provides.

In Islam, we do not need to reinterpret morally troubling texts beyond recognition because the Qur’an provides a consistent ethic rooted in divine justice and mercy. It prohibits transgression, clarifies rules of engagement, forbids compulsion in religion, and condemns the unjust taking of life.

> “Whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land—it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.” (Qur’an 5:32)

3. Symbolism without Shari’ah Leads to Ethical Relativism

Your statement emphasizes inner transformation—something Islam also emphasizes—but not at the expense of clear moral boundaries and real-world obligations. Without divine law (shari’ah), “internal” interpretation becomes subject to personal whims, risking the erosion of accountability and justice.

This is why Islam offers a balance: internal purification (tazkiyah) is essential, but so is upholding objective moral commands revealed by God. Symbolism alone does not build just societies; divinely revealed ethics do.

4. Justice and Revelation Must Be Anchored in Reality

While you urge not to “weaponize scripture,” the danger does not lie in taking scripture seriously, but in reading it selectively or mystically. Islam has never used its scripture to justify indiscriminate violence—because the Qur’an is self-consistent and morally cohesive. When you say the Bible should not be taken literally in certain places, the natural question arises: Who decides what is literal and what is symbolic? If that standard is subjective, then scripture ceases to be a clear guide and becomes vulnerable to manipulation or dismissal.

5. The Role of Final Revelation

Islam recognizes that previous scriptures contained both truth and alterations. The Qur’an came not to erase them, but to confirm the truth within them and correct human distortions:

> “To you We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it, and as a criterion over it...” (Qur’an 5:48)

Where previous texts leave ambiguity or open the door to moral confusion, the Qur’an brings clarity. It protects us from justifying harm not by reinterpreting past violence into metaphor, but by replacing it with a final revelation that is universal, preserved, and ethically sound.

Conclusion

Your effort to highlight inner spiritual struggle is appreciated, but it must be grounded in a theology that honors both divine justice and divine speech. Islam provides that grounding—through a final revelation that is clear, preserved, and applicable in both the soul and society.

We do not need to choose between symbolism and ethics. Islam embraces both—within the limits set by God.

وَاللَّهُ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاءُ إِلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ
“And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path.” (Qur’an 2:213)

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gohf:
jimrohn a university graduate who faced exams would realize that you failed this question. The question isn't if you honor them or not, but if you honor one more than the other. Jimrohn, do you realize how you have failed here. No one is asking you about Christianity, but you can't answer an Islamic question without referencing another religion. Is the basis of Islam Christianity? You would say no, but it shows you can't address a question without making such references even while not even understanding the question in the first place.

now if it's a revelation to complete what God has been revealing, surely you should know the revelations from the beginning as well as the gospel and the final revelation, can you claim to be ignorant of other parts and still claim to have the whole because you have the final piece.

Now you look at yourself saying it clarifies the hierarchy of prophethood, which means one is greater than the other if you indeed were genuinely saying that it wasn't to reduce the honor of Jesus it's either you are stating he never had such honor or that hierarchy is just a mere number to how they came and not how they should be evaluated and honored. So your simple answer should have been yes we honor Muhammad above Jesus then followed by this explanation as to why that this. Franky it's your own problem if you assume someone's else makes a fallacy of claiming honor equals divinity. You are addressing someone without respectfully first enquiring of their theological believes. You can't answer questions properly because you are treating it like warfare which is sad and appalling.

okay so if Adam's sin was not the first and original sin, who or what was the first sin based on Islam and the Quran?

I understand what you have written that Islam rejects the idea that all mankind is born sinful, but can you tell us why sins and falls into temptations if according to you man lacks a sinful nature?

Okay, you said elevation, so tell us elevation in what sense?

And another question which you can ignore since it wasn't you who said it, but apparently the Quran or Islam says Allah will throw all into hell, that should include Adam whom he has forgiven right?

telling me to sit it out is pathetic. I personally do not care how old she was. Our Nigerian great grandfather's may have done same, but you had to pathetically do the same thing hypothetices do to Aisha to Mary as well just o justify what exactly. A level headed person would choose to understand how she could have been way older than some claim, it's funny that the Bible doesn't even mention the ages of women or wives but no way you calculate it and claim Mary was preteen.

speak for yourself as you claimed some of you are purely ignorant, which I agree. Now based on your own view of his mission being interrupted clear to clarify how you came about that understanding? Is it because he left and is coming back?
So can we say that he succeeded his mission before he left, and you could also tell us what his mission from God was?

lol you could have simply answered to worship God. But seeing how enthusiastic you are, why not tell us how God revealed that purpose to the first man, through Jesus and through Muhammad and tell us what does worship God mean, what does it mean to worship God.


You could have focused on the Quran and even quote the verses you mentioned. Anyway
Quran 16:36
For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), “Serve Allah, and eschew Evil”: of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).

So this verse is saying a messenger, are you saying this messenger is Jesus based on the context of your answer? Yes or no?
If you say no, then does it mean messengers are sent from every nation, how does this line up with the final messenger when well there are new nations and no more messengers?

Quran 3:49
And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.

Now this verse doesn't state that he is only a messenger to the children of Israel.

Can we say that Muhammad was only a messenger to the middle east and people he spoke to?


Pardon me to add verse 50
And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.

Here isa, Jesus, clearly obey me. The question now is, the Muslims the disciples obeyed him, do you Muslims obey Jesus?

I don't see where it is written that you should disobey Jesus or that he is sent only to Israel or that because he is sent to Israel you should disobey him.

Quite frankly, if Allah could teach Jesus the Torah, there is no excuse for Muhammad not knowing the Torah and the gospel which are supposedly before the Quran.

Okay, the next verse you quoted Quran 61:6
And call to mind when Jesus, son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel, I am Allah’s Messenger to you, I verify the Torah which has come before me, and I give you the glad tiding of a Messenger who shall come after me, his name being Ahmad.” Yet when he came to them with Clear Signs they said: “This is sheer trickery.”

This is amazing. Jesus says I give you the gospel of a messenger to come, his name is Ahmad.

Now if I am to assume the Ahmad is Muhammad and that Jesus is either calling him the gospel that is to come or that he is given them the glad tidings that Muhammad would also bring.

It still begs to be answer, the question what is the gospel preached and taught by Muhammad, what is the good news from the Quran?

Your barrage of rhetorical accusations and theological missteps betrays more heat than light. While you posture as if delivering a cross-examination, your actual argumentation reveals a profound misunderstanding of Islam, its epistemology, and its principles. So let me respond point by point—with clarity, directness, and without the diplomatic softening you clearly neither respect nor understand.

1. “You failed the question”—False Premise

You claim the question was whether we honor one prophet more than another. Islam is not Christianity, and unlike your framework where Christ’s elevation necessitates a demotion of others, Islam teaches prophetic hierarchy within the bounds of respect, not at the expense of any prophet's honor. Allah says:

> "These are the messengers; We have made some exceed others. Among them are those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in rank." (Qur’an 2:253)

Yes, Muhammad ﷺ is the final and greatest Prophet, but that does not entail a dishonor to Jesus, peace be upon him. Your assumption that hierarchy equals dishonor is your theological baggage, not ours. And if you are incapable of distinguishing between reverence and worship, that is your own confusion—not ours to bear.

2. “You can’t answer without referencing Christianity” — Misguided Critique

You brought up theological comparisons, so don’t recoil when we answer on those terms. Islam is the final revelation, and by definition, it clarifies and corrects what came before. That necessitates engaging with prior scriptures. Islam doesn't emerge in a vacuum—it refines and seals the Abrahamic message. Qur'an 5:48 makes this clear:

> "To you We revealed the Scripture in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and as a criterion over it...
If you bring Christianity into the room, don't complain when it's critically addressed.

3. “You can’t claim completeness without knowing the former books” — Strawman

You confuse the completeness of revelation with the memorization of past texts. The Qur’an affirms that the final revelation is self-contained and self-sufficient:

> "This day I have perfected for you your religion..." (Qur’an 5:3)

The Prophet ﷺ did not need to study corrupted scriptures to bring the truth. Revelation comes from the Source, not from books edited by human hands.

4. Original Sin & Human Nature in Islam — Distorted Understanding

Islam categorically rejects the doctrine of inherited sin. Every soul is born pure (fitrah) and accountable only for their own actions:

> "No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another." (Qur’an 6:164)

We sin not because we are born evil, but because we are given free will and a lower self (nafs) to struggle against. Unlike Christian doctrine, we don’t see sin as a genetic curse but as a test.

As for the first sin—it was Iblis, not Adam. He disobeyed Allah by refusing to bow. Read Qur’an 2:34. Your question is answered by the very book you’re trying to challenge.

5. Elevation of Prophets — Clarified

Prophets are elevated in responsibility and rank, not in worship or honor that breaches the bounds of monotheism. Muhammad ﷺ is the seal of the prophets (Qur’an 33:40), but we do not set up competitions of divinity like the Trinity doctrines you are clearly more familiar with.

6. “All will be thrown into Hell” — Misquoted and Misunderstood

You are referring to a hadith or interpretation you have not understood. Yes, people will pass over Hell (Qur’an 19:71), but the righteous will be saved. Adam was forgiven. Your question about him being in Hell shows blatant ignorance of basic Qur'anic theology. Again, if you want to quote, do your homework.

7. Mary, Aisha, and Historical Honesty

You accuse Muslims of projecting modern morality into the past, but you did it first with your ridicule of Aisha’s age. The reality is, both Islamic and Christian history contain cultural norms you would never accept today. Don’t weaponize historical context when it suits you, and then call others pathetic for pointing out yours.

Also, your Bible is silent on Mary’s age, and ancient Jewish culture married young. If it troubles you now, that’s a modern problem—not a scriptural one.

8. Did Jesus Complete His Mission?

You said: “Was his mission interrupted?” Then answer this: If he was crucified (as you believe) and will return again (as Christians also believe), was the first visit sufficient or not? Islam holds he will return—not to "complete a failed mission," but to fulfill divine decree. That’s a very different paradigm. If your Christ succeeded, why is he coming back? Be consistent.

9. Do Muslims Obey Jesus?

Yes—we obey Jesus as a prophet of God, not as divine. His original message (Tawheed – worship God alone) is the same message as all prophets, including Muhammad ﷺ. The Qur’an states:

> “Say, [O Muhammad], ‘We believe in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob… and what was given to Moses and Jesus...’” (Qur’an 2:136)

But we don’t obey later theological innovations falsely attributed to him by later councils and scribes. That is not "disobedience to Jesus," but obedience to the truth of Jesus.

10. Finality of Prophethood and New Nations

You cited Qur’an 16:36: "We sent a messenger to every nation..." Yes, and Muhammad ﷺ was sent to all mankind—hence, the need for no more messengers. Qur’an 34:28:

> “We have not sent you except to all of mankind, as a bringer of glad tidings and a warner.”

Islam is not limited to Arabs or the Middle East. It is global, universal, final.

11. “What is the Gospel Muhammad taught?”

Excellent question. The Arabic word Injeel (Gospel) refers to the original revelation given to Jesus—not the later texts compiled by anonymous authors. The “good news” Muhammad ﷺ brought is the final call to monotheism and mercy. It is this:

> “Say, Indeed, my Lord has guided me to a straight path—a correct religion, the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth. And he was not of the polytheists.” (Qur’an 6:161)

And that:

> “And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.” (Qur’an 21:107)

That is the good news: that guidance has come. Final, preserved, and universal.

Final Thought:

You have misrepresented Islam, misunderstood its message, and mishandled its scriptures. If you wish to debate, bring arguments—not arrogant diatribes. We don’t need to appeal to emotional manipulation or vague allegories. Islam is clear. Its message is clear. And our response to hostility is, as always, truth spoken with strength and clarity.

> “Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best…” (Qur’an 16:125)

But if your way is aggression and contempt, then don’t be surprised when we respond not with silence, but with knowledge, clarity, and strength.

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