₦airaland Forum

tctrills:
No problem, I will give you links so calm down.
Here are some peer reviewed papers

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35608876/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8835069/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Now it's up to you

Point is, painless labour is a thing even though the percentage is very small.

The human head is big no doubt but painless labour is a possibility. The question remain, when did labour pains begin? Was it before or after the curse.

Your argument is that it began before the curse and I am hoping that you can prove it showing timelines.

Your topics states
Childbirth Pain: Nature, Not A Curse
What if it is both?
How do I mean?
If there is a God, then He is the God or the creator of nature.

I just want you to show how you came to know that the first woman was not cursed to have pains at childbirth.

A this argument just to force a conclusion that the story of biblical curse on eve is true.

Dtruthspeaker:
Do you real eyes that you are talking rubbish and that your answer is like saying that in those days yansch dey for back?

2) are babies born with big brains?

If you disagree, point to evidence. Insults are not arguments, it shows how crude you are.

And Yes. Compared to body size, human babies have very large brains. A newborn human brain is about 25 percent of its adult size. That is huge compared to most mammals at birth.

More importantly, the baby’s head is large relative to the mother’s birth canal in labor.

For comparison:
• Human newborn head circumference averages about 34 to 35 cm.
• The human pelvis is narrow because we walk upright.
This tight fit is why labor is difficult and painful.
Chimpanzee babies, for example, pass through the birth canal more easily because their head to pelvis ratio is different. This is not opinion. It is basic anatomy studied in comparative biology and obstetrics.

tctrills:
Sir you realize that you did not provide links to the resources you mentioned.
Again do these resources show or state the date God cursed the woman. with the pain of labour? How did the above researchers figure out the day God cursed.
If you are saying that labour pain predates Moses receiving the revelation in Genesis, that's one thing but it seems you are saying something else.
Please the papers you mentioned, do they indicate the timeline of the curse so we can compare with the science of labour pains.

Also, I did some research and I would love you to explain these.

In a survey from France in 2021, about 25 % of women reported feeling no pain at the moment the baby’s head emerged, even without pain medication. This is a specific phase of labour, not the whole process.

In broader statistics (e.g., Australia 2020 data), about 20.5 % of women did not use any pain relief during labour — but not using pain relief doesn’t mean they felt no pain. Many still experienced pain, just without analgesia

Most studies on childbirth pain show that the overwhelming majority of women do feel significant pain at some point during labour unless effective pain relief (like epidural anesthesia) is used. One medical overview suggests that in places like France, about 98 % of women report moderate to severe pain during delivery.

What this means

Truly painless labour without any medical anesthesia is relatively uncommon.

Estimates of women who feel no pain at all at any point during childbirth (without analgesia) are likely well below 25 % and often much lower when considering the entire labor process, not just one moment.

Some women may experience reduced pain or very manageable sensations due to rapid labor, high pain tolerance, or physiological differences, but these cases are not the norm.

And you expect me to take you serious. You just finished saying that i didn’t give any link yet you went ahead to do same thing you complain. The worst is that you now gave me a copy and paste work from an AI chat bot.

tctrills:
I love your write-up but I would love you to throw more light on something you wrote.
These were your words.
But research shows that painful labor existed long before any story of Eve.
Please, can you provide links to the research papers?
Thanks

Yes.
Childbirth pain is explained by two main factors:

1. Humans walk upright, which narrows the pelvis.
2. Humans have large brains, which means large baby heads.
This 2 combination makes birth mechanically difficult.

Key research:
¶ Rosenberg and Trevathan, “The Evolution of Human Birth,” Scientific American, 2002.

¶Dunsworth et al., Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2012.

Fossils show early human already had pelvic structures consistent with difficult labor aeons ago, that predates the Genesis story by a very long time. So pain in childbirth is anatomical, not moral

Truthseeker10:
So how did the first man and woman appear?

Appear?

Is this a Nigerian movie.

For thousands of years, people have told women: “Childbirth is painful because of Eve’s sin.” The Bible says it. The story of Eden says it. But here’s the truth: it’s a myth. A story meant to explain something humans didn’t understand.

Pain in childbirth isn’t punishment. It’s biology.

Humans have big brains. Our babies’ heads are huge compared to our pelvis. Our pelvis is narrow to help us walk upright. The result? Labor is physically tough. Pain is inevitable. Every contraction, every strain, every scream., that is your body navigating a tight passage.

Animals feel pain during birth too. Cows, horses, lions, primates, they all experience it. If we say it is because of the curse on eve, does it mean that the animals also ate the forbidden fruit?

Pain is universal, not selective. It’s not about sin. It’s about survival. Pain triggers the body to release hormones, coordinate contractions, bond with the baby, and alert others for help. Pain saves lives.

The Eden story says women were cursed after eating a fruit. But research shows that painful labor existed long before any story of Eve. Upright posture, large heads, small birth canals, these are facts, not fables. There’s no “pre-Eden painless childbirth.” There’s only biology.

Understanding this changes everything: pain is natural. It’s functional. And we no longer have to attach guilt or moral judgment to it. Modern medicine exists not to “erase sin,” but to make birth safer and less excruciating.

Childbirth pain isn’t a curse. It’s the cost of being human. The Eden story is a myth. The truth? Biology made you strong, not guilty.

This is a discussion that ought to be pondered on.

Let’s drop emotions and talk reality.

This is a serious look at documented patterns that many scholars, NGOs, Sharia courts, and even religious leaders in Northern Nigeria quietly acknowledge but rarely confront publicly.

Marriage in much of Northern Nigeria is in trouble. Not because people are immoral, but because the system rewards irresponsibility and punishes stability.

Talaq Has Become Too Easy to Use, Too Hard to Regulate

Kano State, according to multiple academic studies and NGO reports, has one of the highest divorce rates in Nigeria. Sharia courts process thousands of divorce cases yearly, many concluded quickly, often initiated by men, sometimes without meaningful mediation.

This speed is praised as “efficiency,” but efficiency without restraint creates abuse. Divorce is no longer a last option. It is often the first reaction to conflict.

Polygamy in Practice Is Not Polygamy in Theory

Islamic texts emphasize justice among wives. Real life tells another story.

Research from universities in Kano and Zaria shows a clear trend:

First wives, especially those connected by blood or strong family ties, are more secure.

Later wives, often younger and economically dependent, face higher divorce risk.

This is not rumor. Sharia court judges themselves have spoken publicly about men marrying beyond their financial and emotional capacity, then dissolving marriages once responsibility becomes inconvenient.

Pregnancy Does Not Protect Women

Women’s rights organizations such as WRAPA and BAOBAB have documented cases of women divorced during pregnancy or shortly after childbirth. While Islamic law prescribes care during iddah, enforcement is weak in reality.

The result is simple. Families, not husbands, bear the burden. Women return to their parents’ homes. Children grow up in unstable arrangements. Society shrugs.

Child Marriage Feeds the Cycle

UNICEF data consistently shows Northern Nigeria has the highest child marriage rates in the country. Girls married very young are statistically more likely to be divorced early.

This creates serial marriage patterns where a woman may be married and divorced multiple times before age 30. This is instability disguised as normalcy.

Divorce Is Normalized, But at a Cost

Divorce carries little less stigma in much of the North. That sounds progressive until you ask why. It is normalized because it is common.

Mental health studies among divorced and polygynous households in Northern Nigeria show higher rates of depression, anxiety, and economic vulnerability among women.

Children are the quiet victims. NGOs working in Kano and Sokoto consistently report issues of absent fathers, fragmented households, and informal custody arrangements that prioritize adult convenience over child welfare.

The Hard Question We Avoid

This is not about whether Islam allows talaq or polygamy.

The real question is this:

What happens when religious permissions exist without strong social, legal, and moral safeguards?

Northern Nigeria is not backward. It is complex. But complexity is not an excuse for silence.

When marriage becomes temporary, when women become replaceable, and when children grow up without stability, the problem is not “Western influence.” The problem is a system that refuses self-correction.

Faith should build families, not weaken them.
Culture should protect the vulnerable, not excuse abuse.

If we truly care about religion, society, and the next generation, then honest conversation is not disrespect. It is responsibility.

Let’s talk.

Cc nlfpmod seun

When a Religion Fears Your Personal Choice, You Are No Longer Practicing Faith but Obedience

A religion that forbids you from making personal decisions based on what you are actually experiencing in real life is not protecting your soul. It is protecting its control. At that point, the line between religion and cult behavior becomes thin and sometimes invisible.

This is not an emotional claim. It is a structural one.

Any belief system that demands total obedience while discouraging personal judgment fits the classic definition of a high control system. Sociologists and psychologists have studied this for decades. The pattern is always the same. The group decides. The individual submits. Questioning becomes rebellion. Choice becomes sin.

Free Will Is Claimed but Rarely Practiced

Most religions loudly preach free will. They say humans are moral agents capable of choosing right from wrong. Yet the daily reality inside many religious spaces contradicts this claim.

You are told what to wear.
Who to marry.
How to think.
What questions not to ask.
What emotions are acceptable.
What experiences are dangerous.

Your personal context does not matter. Your lived reality does not matter. The rule matters more than the human.

That is not free will. That is behavioral regulation.

Psychology is very clear here. When a system restricts personal decision making by replacing individual reasoning with absolute rules enforced by fear or guilt, autonomy collapses. This is one of the key markers used by mental health professionals to identify coercive groups.

Rules Made for Another World Still Governing This One

Many religious rules were formed in agrarian societies thousands of years ago. These were societies without modern medicine, without formal education systems, without digital communication, without scientific understanding of mental health, sexuality, or human development.

Yet today, people living in megacities, using smartphones, navigating complex economies, and facing modern social realities are told to live by rules designed for tribal survival.

Do not ask why.
Do not adapt.
Do not adjust.

This refusal to evolve is not holiness. It is institutional fear of losing authority.

Healthy belief systems adapt their ethical frameworks as human understanding grows. Unhealthy ones freeze time and demand that humans regress instead.

Control Is Often Disguised as Holiness

In many religious settings, control is framed as discipline. Obedience is framed as faith. Submission is framed as humility.

But control always follows the same formula.

First, fear is introduced. Fear of hell. Fear of punishment. Fear of being labeled rebellious. Fear of exclusion.

Second, dependency is created. You are taught that you cannot trust your own judgment. Only leaders, texts, or doctrines can think for you.

Third, personal responsibility is removed. When things go wrong, you are told you lacked faith, not that the rule was flawed.

This psychological structure mirrors what researchers describe in cult dynamics. The language is spiritual, but the mechanism is authoritarian.

Personal Experience Is Treated as a Threat

One of the most dangerous features of rigid religion is its hostility toward personal experience.

If your lived reality contradicts doctrine, doctrine wins.
If your conscience raises questions, conscience is silenced.
If your circumstances require nuance, nuance is rejected.

A belief system that cannot tolerate human complexity does not seek truth. It seeks compliance.

Ironically, many sacred texts themselves are filled with individuals making context based decisions. Yet modern religion often ignores this and replaces discernment with blanket rules.

When a religion fears your ability to think, reflect, and decide, it is not worried about your salvation. It is worried about losing relevance.

Faith Without Choice Is Not Faith

Real faith requires the freedom to choose. Without choice, belief becomes programming.

If you are punished for thinking differently, it is not faith.
If questioning is labeled rebellion, it is not faith.
If obedience matters more than integrity, it is not faith.

It is behavioral control wrapped in spiritual language.

This is why many people today are not rejecting God. They are rejecting systems that infantilize adults and criminalize independent thought.

A Hard Truth Modern Religion Must Face

We are no longer in the stone age. Humans are more informed, more connected, and more aware of psychological manipulation than ever before.

Religions that refuse to respect personal agency will continue to lose credibility. Not because people are immoral, but because people are no longer willing to outsource their conscience.

A belief system that cannot coexist with free will does not produce moral adults. It produces fearful followers.

And history is very clear on how that story always ends.

Why Do We Fight Our Own Fashion Choices? 🤔

Ever noticed this strange paradox?
Men sag their trousers.
Women hike their skirts up.

But here’s the kicker:
Men who sag? When they walk, they instinctively try to pull their trousers up.
Women with short skirts? When they walk, they instinctively try to pull their skirts down.

Whyyyyyyyyy?!

It’s fascinating when you think about it. We make bold style statements like sagging trousers, short skirts, high heels but our bodies naturally resist extremes. Gravity, comfort, and instinct all conspire to undo our fashion rebellions.7

franugo:
That well picture looks fake🤥, no link to this story?

Mr fact checker. Weldone with assuming every picture is fake.

Orlandoo:
That boy won't forget the man.

Yes indeed. The well was very deep ooo

This is highly commendable and touching.

Dtruthspeaker:
Did you not see Egypt ruled all the way to even northern Nigeria, in all the wars of old?

So, people have been attacking other communities exactly how bandits are doing now.

So, man has always been looking to conquer and dominate his fellow man.

Then, before the Romans, Christianity was already spreading beyond Isreal and it did so without violence or war. So remove Christianity from it.

But it will never be the way it is without Roman empire.

MaxInDHouse:
Well true Christians never join politics!🙂

What a thinking.

MaxInDHouse:
What you know today as CHRISTIANITY is not the same as the works of Jesus' first century disciples rather this is the ANTICHRIST meaning religion bearing a name to camouflage like they belong to Christ but truly they are against Christ.

God has promised to destroy all those in this false religion and it's promoters but His faithful worshipers He will call by another group name! Isaiah 65:15

If you wish to know the true Christians today all you need to do is read what Jesus said about his group and look around you to see which religion is doing exactly what he commanded his disciples! John 15:14

all this is just prose my bro

advanceDNA:
It's religion of peace only becos they say so......its just a sayin....like a slogan a company uses for marketing

It's the same way they say there is no compulsion in Islam...but you will be killed if you leave Islam in an Islamic state where shariah is applicable.......

It's the same way they say "killing a man is like killing a while generation"....but hey! they behead you anyway when they feel offended and hide it under blasphemy especially if you Christian, jew or what dey like to call infidel ....as long as they all chant Allah Akbar.....its all good....

exactly

Religion is never just about prayer, temples, and holy books. It is also about power, conquest, and ambition. If history had tilted differently, the gods we worship today might have been completely different. Christianity’s rise was not unique every global faith carries the fingerprints of conquest.

1. Christianity – The Cross and the Crown

Christianity’s global spread did not come from fishermen in Galilee alone. It exploded because Rome adopted it, Europe weaponized it, and colonialism exported it.

Rome’s embrace of Christianity under Constantine in the 4th century turned a persecuted sect into an imperial religion.

European conquest, slave trade, and colonization carried the Bible across continents, often replacing or suppressing native faiths.

Africans, Native Americans, and Pacific Islanders lost shrines and gods because missionaries arrived with guns and governments behind them.

Without empire, the carpenter’s son from Nazareth might have remained a local prophet, not the “Savior of the World.”

2. Islam – The Sword and the Crescent

Islam too spread through power and ambition. Within a century of Muhammad’s death, Arab armies carried Islam from Mecca to Spain, Persia, and India.

Conquered peoples were often pressured to adopt Islam through taxes on non-Muslims (jizya), political exclusion, or outright force.

Great empires like the Abbasid Caliphate, the Ottoman Empire, and the Sokoto Caliphate made Islam the organizing principle of politics, law, and culture.

In West Africa, Islam grew not simply through preaching, but through the military and political power of caliphates and sultanates.

Without conquest, Islam might have remained a faith of the Arabian desert tribes.

3. Hinduism – Empire and Caste

Hinduism, though less missionary, maintained dominance in South Asia by fusing religion with politics and social order.

Hindu kingdoms embedded the caste system as a tool of social control, making religion inseparable from governance.

Hindu rulers built monumental temples not only for devotion but as displays of imperial power.

Expansion of Hindu practices into Southeast Asia (Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand) came through trade, cultural prestige, and Indianized kingdoms not just philosophy.

Without political backing, Hinduism may never have extended beyond India’s borders.

4. Buddhism – Kings and Missionaries

Unlike Christianity or Islam, Buddhism did not ride on war horses but on royal patronage.

Emperor Ashoka of India (3rd century BCE) converted after bloody wars and sponsored Buddhist missionaries across Asia.

Chinese emperors, Japanese shoguns, and Southeast Asian kings embraced Buddhism as a moral and political philosophy.

Monasteries were built with royal funds, becoming both spiritual centers and economic hubs.

Without Ashoka’s embrace, Buddhism may have remained a fringe Indian sect rather than an Asian powerhouse.


The Common Thread: Conquest, Not Just Conviction

Every major religion that claims billions of followers today has one thing in common: it was not just preached, it was powered by empire.

Christianity rode on Rome and European colonialism.
Islam spread with Arab armies and Ottoman sultans.
Hinduism endured through caste politics and kingdom patronage.
Buddhism flourished because kings sponsored monks and monasteries.

Religion survives not only because of divine revelation, but because of political ambition and historical dominance.

The African Question: What If?

And so, the haunting question remains: What if Africa had exported her gods?

If the Oyo Empire had sailed westward, perhaps the world would bow to Sango today. If Egypt’s mysteries had become the backbone of empire, perhaps Isis and Osiris would be worshipped globally instead of Jesus and Mary.

Faith is not simply “true” or “false.” It is also a reflection of who won the wars, who wrote the laws, and who sailed the ships.

In conclusion :

Today, billions bow in churches, mosques, temples, and monasteries, convinced their faith is eternal truth. But history whispers another story: religions rise and spread when tied to power, conquest, and empire.

To believe is human. But to globalize belief requires more than prophets and scriptures, it requires kings, armies, and empires.

And so, the gods of today may not be the gods of eternity. They are, in many ways, the gods of conquest.

It's just a okay on words. They are same.

Solofresh2:
The men are to be blamed because, they are the ones giving this women access to this manipulations

Does that then justify the act?

If the man is blinded by delusions( love) then she should take advantage of him?

And it's also women fault for letting men take advantage of them?

What you are implying is that all is fair in love and war, that the end always justify the means.

And in Nkem owoh's voice "If any body fall mugu ahhh my brother I go chop am".

virginprincess:

what is a virgin doing on this thread

Magnoliaa:
Interesting...er, questions.

What do you have to say

If you take time to read a number of blogs, dating-related internet message boards ,discussion forums, radio programs and podcasts revolving on dating and relationships, you will inevitably find a number of women blaming men for 90-99% of the problems in today’s dating scene. Conversely you will find a high number of men blaming women for 90-99% of the problems in today’s dating scene.
 
So whose fault is it? The men or women?

For both to blame each other it shows that each gender is saying the truth of the other.

The reality is, members of both genders are guilty of the problems in today’s dating scene.
 
Anyone who feels like the problems of today’s dating scene are the fault of men only or women only is incredibly narrow-minded, sexist and delusional.

Misogynistic red pillers/meninist blame women completely while radical feminists/feminazis put the blame solely on me

I have noticed that a lot of so-called ‘dating experts’ attempt to make the problems in today’s dating scene seem more ‘complicated’ than they really are.  Actually, most of the problems in today’s dating scene are very, very simple.
 
A vast majority of men and women are not honest with members of the opposite sex about the exact type of romantic and sexual companionship that they really want.
 
Manipulative Games Men Play:
 
✓ We have men who will mislead women into believing that they are interested in a long-term sexual relationship, but in reality, these men really want a short-term sexual relationship.
 
✓ We have men who will mislead women into believing that they are interested in a strictly monogamous sexual relationship or marriage, but in reality, these men really want to engage in promiscuous and/or polyamorous sex with multiple women.
 
✓ We have men who will mislead women into believing that they are content with being a woman’s ‘BFF’ or ‘male girlfriend,’ but in reality, these men really want to be involved with these women in some sort of romantic or sexual manner.
 
Manipulative Games Women Play:
 
¶ We have women who mislead men into believing that they never have, and never will engage in promiscuous and/or polyamorous sex, when the reality is, they have engaged in at least a few episodes of short-term and/or non-monogamous ‘casual’ sex with at least a man or many MEN.
 
¶ We have women who mislead men into believing that they want to be that man’s long-term girlfriend or future wife because they really, truly ‘love’ them … when the reality is, these women really want to connect with a man simply because they know they can have their way with him (i.e., control the relationship) and they know they will be able to monopolize that man’s financial resources in order to improve their overall quality of life.
 
¶ We have women who will allow themselves to get pregnant by a man who has never once expressed an interest in marrying them and never once expressed an interest in raising children with them, and then when those men refuse to date them, marry them, and raise a family with them, they turn around and suggest that this man ‘deceived’ them and is an ‘irresponsible parent.’
 

ANALYSIS

The main problem, as I see it, is that not too many men and women seem to be interested in engaging in romantic and sexual relationships that are mutually rewarding and beneficial, and full of honesty, sincerity, and genuine love and desire.
 
In the world of sports, the participants are very competitive because at the end of the athletic event, they want to be labeled ‘the winner.’ On the contrary, the world of dating and relationships is not supposed to be about one romantic companion ‘winning’ while the other sex partner ‘loses.’
 
In the last couple of decades, many men have been guilty of leading women on and toying with their emotions, while many women have been guilty of leading men on and toying with their egos and their strong desire for sex.

Both men and women deserve to be called out for behavior that is dishonest , disingenuous, vitriolic and duplicitous toward members of the opposite sex.

Members of both genders need to be harshly admonished each time they are guilty of exhibiting blatantly misleading behavior and engaging in manipulative 'head games' with one another.
 
Members of both genders are guilty of lying to their spouses or long-term romantic companions of being monogamous while cheating on them with additional lovers behind their back.  

Honesty is the best.

This is wrong.

Rokiatu45:
Question 1 : “If Marriage is So Great, Why So Many Divorces?

Nothing wrong with marriage just this generation have got it all wrong.

One of the major cause of so many divorce nowadays is because people are not playing their roles in marriages anymore. Many women have buy in the western ideal of Gender equality bullshi..t hence the whole 50/50 nonsense.

They no longer want to rest in their femininity and be submissive. Many don’t understand the true meaning of submissiveness, they think been submissive to a man means you get treated like shi..t.

also most men are not true leaders and providers anymore thereby putting a lot of stress on women because now they have to work to help provide, while still performing their womanly roles of been a home marker, looking after the children, etc.

If we follow the divine order there will be no problem. The man is the leader of the home
The
Man should provide and protect, the woman should bring peace to the man and follow his lead and be submissive.


Another thing is that people are quick
To leave for the mere inconstant feeling of not been happy anymore. People rip their whole family apart simply because they are not happy anymore.
I mean who lied to ya all and told you that you will be happy through out your marriage? You don’t just up
And leave simply because you are not happy anymore a temporary emotion that can easily be fixed.

You did well in answering the first question.

However, let's review your answer.

You said one of the cause is that couples are not playing their roles anymore.

Why do you think that is happening now why not 100 years ago.

Could it be that people are tired of the expectations of marriage or gender roles.

Are the traditional tenets of marriage ideal?

Let's answer these tough questions about marriage.

There were researches carried out that shows there is a rise in gamophobia ( fear of marriage) due to alot happening to marriages.

Let's answer these tough questions about marriage.

Question 1 : “If Marriage is So Great, Why So Many Divorces?

There are alot of cases of marriages not lasting for a year as some as early as 2weeks.

Another question then is.

Question 2 : If Marriage is So Bad, Why So Many Weddings?

Despite the divorces, the heartbreaks, tumoil etc every saturday people still get wedded.


Let's all contribute to this debate as it affects us one way or the other.

Cc
Lalasticlala
Mydd44
Seun
farano
Rocktation

Rashduct4luv:
There's no mention of it but those who heard the verse revealed did use Khimar and face veils which covers from head downwards!

Whence cometh the compulsory use of burqa etc.

It's just tradition and not from scriptures.

Kobojunkie:
Before you continue, endeavor to open the book to read and digest for your own self so you don't sound as ignorant as those you are obviously trying to "save" by your call for reformation.

Guess you are an atheist.

4.

3.

Kobojunkie:
Again, the book isn't the problem but the ignorance and foolishness of those who you seem to believe that your reformation idea will help.

Noted. Your comments no longer needed.

Kobojunkie:
Yes! You are pretty much wrongfully attacking the Book rather than the foolishness and ignorance of the people, the very root of the problem.

Lol what is the essence of religion without a religious book.