₦airaland Forum

kiekie1:
That's a compliment .. Good to know you personally revived your system from surge , try do a proper grounding and if possible , get an anti surge device within 20-50k interval pending on efficiency-make . Cheers !

Thanks for the compliment, sir !!!

kiekie1:
I have confirmed you as a real "practical man" abinitio . I think i get where you are coming from but theoretical approach acts a a guideline to practical approach and that's solely the basics k.. Manuals are meant to be studied in any situation , guess you meant they are thrown away because they already know about the said product as I know all batteries or inverters ain't same .. We have disparity between gel-agm-flooded batteries likewise some inverters which don't last long when you install with "common neutral" like old model Cyber power etc...

When I meant "throw away" I believe he understood what I meant. A figure of speech, which means don't depend and/or
put all your life on a manual; especially for items like batteries, where the results will vary according to user approach. You dig?
And your italicized use of the phrase "practical man"; don't know if I should take it as a compliment or a sub.

In the real practical sense of it, I had posted an image days back and had related with zeestone99 . . . I had lightening strike my house
and oh yes, it took out my external battery charger with it and killed my inverter charging functionality (don't preach to me about a lightening arrestor,, i know i know ).... . Inverter was outputing 0.23Amps to charge a depleted battery. days later, I single-handedly brought it back to life.
How i did it, remains to be desired !!!

kiekie1:
I guess he was speaking of low quality Chinese batteries or rebranded battery versions !

lol but no !

dejidotun2000:
And why would they do that?

Cos those are factory-based under STC which don't apply to real life . . .
Take for example, a battery spec sheet might tell you to charge your battery to 14.1V for optimum performance
And you might be living where you do not have enough sun-hours to float your battery.
What do you do? Increase bulk charge to say, 14.6 and let it smoke . . .
** and for those who might want to argue, it's called "max smoke" in the solar world & perfectly safe***
By the time the sun goes down; you would be closer to 100% SOC
If you seem to be smoking too much, reduce to 14.4 and try again . .
no battery spec sheet will tell you this.
so forget what the spec sheets say, they are theoritical and meant as guides
throw it away, and face real conditions applicable to you and you only.

mank1234:
You'll get different result because of differences in internal resistance, differences in age etc and not because the underlining theories are wrong.

Since you don't believe in theories(battery test result), why then do you look at battery data sheet when researching about a battery to buy?

I'll not respond to this anymore; not that you're right but so that the sanctity of this wonderful thread is maintained.

Mankinde, let me rest and if you're an adept reader;
you would know that most seasoned installers will tell you to throw away the battery spec sheet.

mank1234:
Thanks my man. This is exactly what I laboured to explain to makavele all through last night.
[b]He refused to accept that load [/b]can be used to divert current that otherwise would have ended up charging the battery above its optimum charging current.

Oya, I have accepted, lets move on

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Zeestone and I have this argument with every installation we do together.

He argues that all neutral is common even within the inverter internal circuitry and this is true.

Again, I note that the NEC retained the common neutral standard for backward compatibility though they do not encourage it - they recommend that the neutral bus/ wire be at least equal to or twice the size of the live wires.

When I look at the average household electrical distribution panel, one sees that all the neutral wires terminate on one bus bar and same for the earth/ground wires - so I have been forced to grudgingly accept his old-school method.

Its true . . the average DB has a single (or like in my case, dual bus bars) where all neutral wires terminate . .
But it would be bad practice to wire all sockets and switches in the house in a common neutral loop
and stretch one single piece of wire to the DB / / / heck; nobody does that . .
All sockets and switches have individual neutral lines stretched out to the DB
and I guess you know why already.

mank1234:
This is derailing from the issue in contention, which I believe bigrovar has setttled.

Even on this one. The theories as stated by the manufacturers would likely hold barring marketing gimmicks, as long as you hold the variables (temperature, pressure, load etc) precisely as stated by the the manufacturers. Manufacturer cannot state a test result at 25^oC for instance and you do yours at 30^oC and expect to get same result.

Even with the same wiring, same temp . . . we would get different results .. you know why already
thats why i said its theoritical .. only meant as guidelines .
best believe, pranil put it to rest

kiekie1:
Pls hope am not the only one interested in the said video clip?

It's PPV by the way !

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Valid point about floating neutrals.

If we break only the live wire there is a very good chance that the neutral could become energized when the breaker trips.

Noted for my future designs.

it is always a safer option to have dedicated lines in electricity ...
the only draw-back is cost of wiring . .

zeestone99 take note !! you & your unrelenting love for common wiring

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Lolz!

Based on what you have explained in your earlier posts at least I know you have a clear picture of what the whole elephant looks like

. . . it looks like an elephant, or doesn't it ? lol

NiyiOmoIyunade:
This is an interesting argument - much akin to three men feeling an elephant by touch and one who felt the sides decides the elephant is much like a wall, the one who felt the leg decides the elephant is like a tree while the guy who felt the tail decides the elephant is much like a rope.

I think it's all a matter of perspective but I will wait to see how things pan out.

. . . and the one who felt the tusk decided the elephant was much like a spear;
while the one who felt the ears said the elephant was more like a fan

Dam5reey:
BMV is a device on its own that uses shunts and also sort of battery management as well as it's calculations...

I'm sure makavele is not using shunts.. he connect his cc and battery directly... so his practicals is correct as well...

smart you / / /

mank1234:
What I posted has been proven scientifically and not guess work. Recheck your physics or electrical theories. The net current is independent of the charge rate so long as there's a difference in current drawn and current put in. So no need to mention C10 or C20.

In retrospect, your assumptions is more of guess work.

I dont work with theories sir . . . especially those that don't apply to real life . .e.g

12v 100ah battery at 50% d.o.d on 30w load cumulative = 20 hrs backup

that is theory . . not correct in practical. . even if we adjust for losses in the system multiply by .80 inverter efficiency; still theory

even if you add battery peukert effect, still theory . .

the only way to know how long it would last, do a live demonstration and use a stopwatch !

so like i said; and still stand by, get two ammeters and do the measurement . . .

I am more concerned with the current hitting the terminals !

Until then; peace !!!

Chuckdee:
The bolded is soo wrong and misleading. Please how do you then explain how people in advanced countries like US and Europe that are on reliable grid that almost never goes down but have Solar setups without a single battery bank and yet make use of energy generated by those panels??... lets not BOLDLY mislead newbies that come to this thread to learn

Are you talking grid tie generation .. ?
explain well, i dont understand you.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Yes this is correct Boss. But you only have access to SG readings with flooded batteries and even then you go tire to dey check SG on a regular basis - all the hand flushing and equipment washing to rinse off the corrosive acid can become annoying

Again SG and voltage measurements are indicators that your state of charge is within a particular range. They cannot tell you the exact state of each cell e.g on my US battery L16 flooded bank I get temperature adjusted SG readings between 1.275 and 1.295 across all cells when my batteries are fully charged. Yet if I run say my 2hp AC for like 8 hours its the battery with one cell at 1.295 that collapses first

With all the charge in this world (my array can generate a max 75amps into a 360AH bank if I don't cap the output) I have not gotten the SGs to converge. In a moment of madness I even started siphoning electrolyte from the 1.295 cell into the weaker ones yet no joy

So I settled for simply clapping an individual charger on each battery on a regular basis and keeping the water topped up.

Flooded is good but as you would have seen from people's experiences on here with their Trojans and my own US Battery L16s, after a while things start to go south and they need ever more and more babysitting to keep them healthy.

As it stands now, I have given up on lead acid, our salvation now seems to be Lithium with the promise of negligible or zero sulfation/loss of capacity even at 80% depth of discharge.

FLA requires more babysitting and can tolerate more abuse . .
and quite fortunately for me . . i love doing both !!!

I am thinking Lithium too but I need to see more of it in action (live) and not hearsay
before I even start to lose sleep over it.

Our merciful colleague hasn't given us an in-depth review so far
to enable me make a decision.

DUNKA:
House please a silly question

If you go into float everyday on your system can one automatically assume that your batteries are being fully recharged everyday?

You can assume so; yes; but do not be decieved by what the charge controller is telling you. . .
The only way to know a battery's true state of charge is to check its S.G. ( specific gravity)
This is why i want to delve into flooded batts now as against SMF batts

kiekie1:
Lol , Oga u dey observe this thread too ? See link below ;
https://www.nairaland.com/4166130/infinitikoncept-refused-released-goods/16

You must really be a practical man.

Lol, i dey observe all ooo.
That Subomi guy ehn, i no really understand am ... even people don offer to help
him dey reject help ... na so I waka ohhh

mank1234:
What I posted has been proven scientifically and not guess work. Recheck your physics or electrical theories. The net current is independent of the charge rate so long as there's a difference in current drawn and current put in. So no need to mention C10 or C20.

In retrospect, your assumptions is more of guess work.

People that know me know I am more of a practical man ..
I will post a video tomorrow concerning this;
at least not to argue but for knowledge purposes

mank1234:
That's so wrong! What will an ammeter placed before the battery read? 10A or 30A or 40A?
It will definitely read 10A.

That place before the inverter will read 30A, that after the controller will read 40A.

The inbuilt diversion mode of some controller with that feature works this way in principle.

I do not like guesswork.
Please place an ammeter between charge controller and battery bank;
and let us know what you get,
Then place between battery bank and inverter and let us know what you get too . .
before you do this, please ensure the CC is supplying more than the c10 or c20 current
thanks

mank1234:
Sorry, I had to quote you. That's not how electricity works. The battery only sees the net current flow, which is the difference of what it takes minus what it gives. So you're very safe if you as I postulated. Things only get wrong if your your load gets disconnected.

Let's even look at it from a lay an point of view: take the battery to be a container with 2 openings - inlet and outlet. If you put 2 litres of water into the containtand takes out 1 litre, as far as the container is concern, you're adding 1 litre. What happens outside the container is irrelevant to the container.

Your analogy is seriously flawed because unlike a container, a battery has only 1 opening . .
the same opening for inward and outward current . . .
Current must flow to load first; and be replenished by solar array (when under load)
Or no current flows to load, and current is received by solar array (when idle and charging)
so when 30A flows to load, for example, and solar pumps in 40A back . . . current flowing into the "opening" is still 40A;
(which will kill a typical 100Ah or even 200Ah battery over time) and not 10A
Best bet is to increase battery bank
You garrit ?

Let me correct a misconception here . . .
Take for example a 40A mppt controller on a 600W array connected to just a single 12V 100Ah battery
On a very good day, during bulk charging the array is capable of pushing out 25-30 Amps
But we all know it is best to charge batteries at one-tenth capacity (C10) i.e. in this example 10A;
So your controller is pushing 30A, which is an overkill for the battery.
Most people, like the poster above me, believe you can add or turn on some load to reduce the current entering the battery.
This is a misconception and why is so?
1. The PV array does not directly power any load connected to the inverter/battery bank.
2. What happens is that the battery is discharging and charging at the same time albeit very fast.
3. If for example, the total load turned on is 100W; and the PV is producing 150W; what happens is that the load
will draw 100W from the battery (discharge); and at the same time the PV will pump in 100W (recharge) to the battery
to replace what is lost and 50W is used to keep the battery in float (if it is already in float);
or used to keep charging the battery if it isn't yet in float

SO back to our example, what if the CC is delivering 30A on a c10 rated battery . .
if you like turn on all the load in the world; what is happening is that . . the CC is still sending in 30A to your battery
and in turn your battery is powering the loads connected, be it 10A, 20A, 2A, 100A
If the CC amp is greater than the load, the battery stays charged up
if the load amps is greater than CC amp, the battery will start discharging even while being connected to solar.

Thanks

4llerbuntu:
Lol

Ntel FUP throttling is 64kbps bros. anyone who experienced it when they tried it the first time can confirm it to you

and depending on how much its priced, that 7 days plan CANNOT be 35 Gb

Matter of fact, i'm pretty sure its still 5GB, just lasts 7 days instead of 2.

If it were 35GB then how does any of the other plans make sense? u think they are doing jamboree?

I see . . . have never been throttle to 64kbps . . .
unless you meant 64KBps cos i don't see how any webpage can load
with a 64kbps connection in this time and era

olurotimi1:
5GB daily doesnt make sense my brother. its either unlimited or metered.,By the way fup is 90gb monthly not 5gbdaily

Na u dey confuse yourself . .
They did not say 5GB data cap daily
they said 5GB fup daily meaning if you download or consum 5GB daily, they will reduce your download speed
you can still continue to browse normally at good speed; but your download will slow down considerably for the rest of the day
until midnight when it resets and the cycle continues
take note that some users do not even download, they just need it for normal browsing,
in this case, they have unlimited data in the real sense of it.
The weekly data plan is capped at fup 5gb daily, do 1 week
and set it to autorenew 3 more times . . = 4 weeks = 1 month
it is cheaper and better than 17500 @ 90gb