₦airaland Forum

Afriifa:
The other religion should take notice that nobody terrorised or forced him to find Jesus. That's how we increase our numbers. Even our preaching are open to any who cares to listen.

Islam is the fastest growing religion worldwide - deal with that!

Daily, non Muslims keep accepting Islam. Use this link https://youtube.com/@onemessagefoundation?si=iU_-pQxtcBY6bA9b to increase your hate for Islam.

Lastly, Christians have caused majority of deaths, multiple times more than muslims.

The bible also contains the most babaric laws and directives than any other religions, Christians are denying their bible that is why you don't follow your bible.

If you want, I can list at least 30 babaric killings, genocide, rape etc from the Bible.
Reply "HOLA" if you want them

TV01:
That's Trinity bro'. Jesus is a distinct person in the form of God, who chose to humble Himself despite the fact He is equal with God.

Trinity - logic and grammar says otherwise. My previous answers stand.

TV01:
Read it as you like, interpret it as you will. The meaning is clear. Jesus in the form of God is equal with God, but chose to humble himself. For which reason God exalts Him.

The phrase "For which reason God exalts Him" (Philippians 2:9) actually presents a logical challenge to the Trinity. If Jesus is God, he cannot be "exalted" to a higher position by another being. God is already the highest. Getting exalted by another is only logicaly coherent if "the one to be exalted" is inferior to the exalter.
The fact that his exaltation is a reward for his obedience suggests a hierarchy where the Father is the superior who grants the reward and the Son is the subordinate who earns it.

TV01:
I post the rest of Hebrews 1. Dribble all you please. God the Father clearly refers to The Lord Jesus Christ as God and as Lord.

In Hebrews 1:8, the Greek text can be translated in two ways: "Your throne, O God..." or "God is your throne..."

Also, verse 9 says, "Therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions." This indicates that even in his highest state, Jesus has a God. If Jesus has a God, he cannot be the "Only True God" in the absolute sense.
Exodus 7:1 "I have made you a God (theos) to pharaoh and Aaron as your prophet" - The same term (theos) for Jesus is also used for Moses.
This makes it what, a Quadnity?

TV01:
The Son Superior to Angels
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son; today I have become your Father”?

The phrase "Today I have become your Father" implies a beginning to that specific relationship. If the Son were "eternally begotten," there would be no "today" in which the relationship started.

Again in Psalms the Father did say to David "You are my son, today I have begotten thee"

Begotten son isn't for Jesus alone, even David is his begotten son.

TV01:
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

The Greek word used here is proskuneo, it is also used in the bible to describe bowing down or showing obeisance to kings and superiors .
Lot worships the angels in Gen 19:1 with same word used for Jesus in these verse - are the angels also god? I guess not.

In the context of Hebrews, the angels are commanded to honor the Son because God has highly exalted him, not necessarily because he is the Creator Himself.

In Islam we believe messengers of God are gteater than the Angels.

TV01:
The koran causl Paul (Boulos) a prophet and has nothing bad to say about him - unless you can show otherwise. muslims started to hate on Paul when they say his Holy Ghost inspired writings falsified the koran. Sorry 0!

💯 wrong, already answered

TV01:
You can only dissemble , make claims or lie. There have been a number of canonisation events of the koran. First, there was never agreemnt on how many chapters. Second the 3rd caliph - uthman - collated all the text, standardised and burnt the rest.

This is why I want a zoom call, but you are always running away. I will answer all your questions and I will ask you mine.

Writing here is a pain, especially on mobile phone. These incidents cannot be explained in 200 words, this is recorded history.

Uthman standardized the Quran to prevent civil strife, not to change the content.

"Burning" - He never burnt the main copies scribed by the scribes of the Prophet Muhammad (Historical facts), copies of the ordinary masses were burnt to preserve the main text which was copied by Uthmans scribes from the main canon just 30+ years after the prophet, they sent these copies to all Islamic provinces [Makka, Madina, Yemen, Kufa, Shaam, Basra], and then they were recopied to increase their numbers. These copies contained all the Ahrufs of the Qur'an ( you can google this )

Unlike the Bible, which has thousands of manuscript variations and different canons (Catholic vs. Protestant vs. Orthodox) there is only one version of the Quran used by all Muslims worldwide - (7 Ahruf or 10 qira'at is not different Qur'an) - ask Google/AI what they are.

TV01:
There were complete copies of the Torah from way back. The NT was complete while eye-witnesses were still alive. It's the earliest hadith that was compiled 200+ years after the death of mohammed...

the earliest complete New Testament manuscripts (Codex Sinaiticus) date to the 4th century, 300 years after Jesus. As for Hadith, while the formal books were compiled later, they relied on (isnad) a rigorous system of oral and written chains of narration. Regarding the OT, the "Dead Sea Scrolls" show significant variations between manuscripts, the "complete copy" was not as uniform as claimed. google/AI

"Compilation with isnad" not writing. The hadith was collected by the companions of the prophet and passed down, then there was a need to compile it, that was what Imam malik, Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud etc did.

Infact, the 5 daily prayers in details were only recorded in hadith, not the Qur'an.
The Qur'an only says "pray", "prostrate and bow", "pray at dawn", "pray in the afternoon", "pray at sunset" etc.
How to pray and the units of prayer was only recorded in the hadith.

After the death of the prophet Muhammad, his companions went to different cities, yet these hadith were narrated by more than 100s of companions of the prophet from different cities in the same way without any difference.

The prophet Muhammad said "Whoever lies against me intentionally should seek a place in hell" - This statement was reported by more than 50 companions with different chains of narration.

It is impossible to say he never said those words.
If 10 people from different locations say the same thing it is enough to call it authentic, then lets say 50 or 100 persons saying the same thing!

This is what we call - mutawaatir hadith "multitude narration" it is the only form is hadith that is 💯 authentic.

There are weak narrations recorded in hadith books that do not fulfill the authenticity criterias, muslims don't use them because we cannot guarantee they were from the prophet - but we keep them as part of history.

The hadith is 💯 more authentic than the Bible from its original source.

TV01:
The geneology is written in the Hebrew form of the time. it doesn't have to conform to your imaginary requirement. There are 2 for soundness, all the way back to Adam...

Hello! These are two different geneologies of Jesus through josephs - The law of non-contradiction, LNC - something can not be true and at same time false. One of these geneologies must be wrong.

Regarding the geneology of prophet Muhammad, it is as clear as day light. If his geneology is false why didn't the Arabs use this "fact" against him? Instead they used other things.

Arabs, just like jews didn't have any real sense of pride more than their lineage - if it was false why didn't anyone in those centuries ever say "Hey this man is lying", until 10+ centuries later.

TV01:
The Christian scriptures do not charge it's adherents with killing unbelievers...

Jesus/Yahweh/God are same according to you, so all the commands made in the OT are purely Jesus's motives. He ordered all the killings in the OT, including infants and animals.

Why is it something praise worthy "if he protected an adulterer from stoning" by saying "Anyone that is clean should stone".

He was the one that laid down the law of killing adulterers and apostates.

So Yes!
Jesus of the Bible is the perpetrator of all divine laws of killing in the OT.

The Old Testament, which Christians accept as the Word of God goes thus;

copied section <<<<<
A. KILLING APOSTATES / RELIGIOUS DISSENTERS

1. Exodus 22:20

> “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.”

2. Deuteronomy 13:6–10

> “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God.”

3. Deuteronomy 17:2–5

> “If there be found among you… man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,

And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them…

Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman… and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.”

4. 2 Chronicles 15:12–13

> “And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.”

B. KILLING STUBBORN / DISOBEDIENT CHILDREN

5. Deuteronomy 21:18–21

> “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son…

Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city…

And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.”

6. Exodus 21:17

> “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”

7. Leviticus 20:9

> “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.”

C. GENOCIDE / TOTAL DESTRUCTION

8. Deuteronomy 20:16–17

> “But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

But thou shalt utterly destroy them…”

9. Joshua 6:21

> “And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.”


10. Joshua 10:40

> “And Joshua smote all the country… he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.”

11. Joshua 11:14

> “But every man they smote with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them, neither left they any to breathe.”

12. 1 Samuel 15:2–3

> “Thus saith the LORD of hosts…

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”

13. Numbers 31:7–18

> “And they slew all the males…

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

But all the women children… keep alive for yourselves.”


D. KILLING CHILDREN / INFANTS

14. Hosea 13:16

> “Samaria shall become desolate… their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”

15. Psalm 137:9

> “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

16. 2 Kings 8:12

> “For I know the evil that thou wilt do… their young men wilt thou slay with the sword, and wilt dash their children, and rip up their women with child.”


E. KILLING ANIMALS (DIVINE COMMAND)

17. Genesis 7:21–23

> “And all flesh died that moved upon the earth…

And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground…”

18. 1 Samuel 15:3

> “…slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”

F. BURNING TO DEATH

19. Leviticus 20:14

> “And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they.”

20. Leviticus 21:9

> “And the daughter of any priest… she shall be burnt with fire.”

21. Joshua 7:25

> “And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.”

G. STONING TO DEATH

22. Numbers 15:32–36

> “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day…

And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died.”

23. Leviticus 24:16

> “And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him.”

24. Deuteronomy 22:20–21

> “…then they shall bring out the damsel… and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die.”

25. Deuteronomy 22:24

> “…then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die.”
>>>>> copied section

Commands include killing for apostasy, rebellion, blasphemy. Includes killing of children, infants, women, animals by stoning, burning, crushing and genocide. All these were directly Jesus's command to prophets.

Can you justify this? Or Jesus was just a blood-thirsty god thay changed/repented just 2000 years ago.

Is it logical to accuse others of crimes their God once commited? Double standards.

You should not accuse anybody killing apostates until you openly say "Jesus was wrong, violent, wicked and blood-thirsty when he commanded moses, Joshua and co to kill apostates". If not all Christians are just HYPOCRITES.

TV01:
Islam by contrast insists muslims follow the path of Jihad as a duty and an honour. Killing Christians, Jews, plytheists and other non-believers is holy writ to muslims...

Already answered with biblical verses above.

The Quran strictly forbids the killing of innocents (5:32) and commands that there be "no compulsion in religion" (2:256). Jihad primarily means "struggle." Military Jihad is permitted only in self-defense or against oppression.

A one on one will be nice on this particular issue. Jijad is the most misunderstood or deliberately mistranslated term in Islam.

For a headstart the prophet Muhammad said "The best Jihad, is the Jihad of the soul" He also said "The best jihad is the word of truth in front of a tyrant leader"

TV01:
No one has ever killed anyone shouting "Jesus is Lord".

History begs to disagrees. Many have killed in the name of Christ (e.g., the Crusades, the Inquisition). Here are 5 groups/instances often cited:
1. Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA): Led by Joseph Kony, seeking to establish a state based on the Ten Commandments.
2. The Ku Klux Klan (KKK): Historically justified their actions as "Christianity in action."
3. National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT): A militant group in India seeking a Christian state.
4. The Anti-balaka: Christian militias in the Central African Republic.
5. Army of God: An American underground network that uses violence to oppose abortion.
etc
6. The missionaries came to spread Christianity in Africa and the Americas. They killed millions and resolved to slave trade because they believed the bible didn't warn against it.

Also, absolute majority of all killings on earth in recorded history was by Christians. It doesn't matter wether they say "Jesus is great". What matters is that Christianity has brought more havoc in the world than all other religions combined.

TV01:
John 1: The Eternal Word - 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Bible was Aramaic - but we have it in GREEK today surprise 🫢 😲.

John 1:1 uses the word theos (God) in two different ways. The Word was with the God (ton theon), and the Word was a god/divine (theos). If the Word was with God, the Word cannot be the God he was with. Many scholars suggest "The Word" (Logos) is God’s plan or creative power personified, which later "became flesh" in the person of Jesus.

The greek term used for "the word is *god*" is theos, "theos" was used for God, Jesus, moses, kings and even paul in the bible and even Herold and satan.

Regarding paul, in Acts the islanders called him theos, even though they knew he was not the God in heaven. This strengthens the fact that "theos" doesn't mean "The God" - it can be God or a person of great essence and divine authority and that's all.

If we say all theos in the bible should be translated to "God", we'd have dozens of Gods in the Bible.

Another angle, linguistically and logically if the word was **with** God - Then the word cannot be the God it was with, it was surely a different god.
The term "with" makes them distinct.

Combining the linguistic angle and the meaning of theos we can 💯 come to a logical conclusion that the word was a theos but not the theos.

TV01:
Hebrews 1:6 - 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him. Is this homage too ? Please detail it here - all the way back to Abraham as claimed.

Yes, it is homage/honor (proskuneo) given to the King whom God has appointed. The word translated as worship from greek is not used exclusively for God. It is used as homage in many passages.

An addition, according to the Bible Adam is the firstborn of God it all makes sense with Qur'an 2:34 "God commanded the Angels to bow to Adam"

Bowing is worship according to the Bible and even in Islam.

Done for now and might have missed to answer few, I am tired writing.

TV01:
That's Trinity bro'. Jesus is a distinct person in the form of God, who chose to humble Himself despite the fact He is equal with God.

Read it as you like, interpret it as you will. The meaning is clear. Jesus in the form of God is equal with God, but chose to humble himself. For which reason God exalts Him.



I post the rest of Hebrews 1. Dribble all you please. God the Father clearly refers to The Lord Jesus Christ as God and as Lord.

The Son Superior to Angels

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

7 In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”

8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e]

10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”[f]

13 To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”[g]?

14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

The koran causl Paul (Boulos) a prophet and has nothing bad to say about him - unless you can show otherwise. muslims started to hate on Paul when they say his Holy Ghost inspired writings falsified the koran. Sorry 0!


You can only dissemble , make claims or lie. There have been a number of canonisation events of the koran. First, there was never agreemnt on how many chapters. Second the 3rd caliph - uthman - collated all the text, standardised and burnt the rest.

There were complete copies of the Torah from way back. The NT was complete while eye-witnesses were still alive. It's the earliest hadith that was compiled 200+ years after the death of mohammed, by someone who lived hundreds of miles away, who never met him or any of the sahaba. Hadith are all speculation, mostly written for political reasons.


The geneology is written in the Hebrew form of the time. it doesn't have to conform to your imaginary requirement. There are 2 for soundness, all the way back to Adam. mohammeds genealogy from Adnan is supposed, there is no record no chain. which mohammed himself said no one could prove. It's the usual islamic backfill to cover gaps and to validate falsehood.

Please do so. The Christian scriptures do not charge it's adherents with killing unbelievers or those who do not bow the knee to Christianity. Further, anyone who kills and claims Christianity is lying. Also, post-Christian nations are not ruled by Christians. Even if they are historiclly Christian, they are secular.

Islam by contrast insists muslims follow the path of Jihad as a duty and an honour. Killing Christians, Jews, plytheists and other non-believers is holy writ to muslims and comes with virginal rewards abi ?

No one has ever killed anyone shouting "Jesus is Lord". Jesus died that we may have eternal life. islam demies you life if you don;t believe. Extreme opposites. Light & darkness. Truth & falsehod.



John 1: The Eternal Word - 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

The same God referenced in Hebrews 1:10 above - I know the islamic darkness will not let you see. Jesus is God. God has revealed Himself in 3 persons.



Hebrews 1:6 - 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him. Is this homage too ?


Please detail it here - all the way back to Abraham as claimed. Thank you.


TV

The only thing I am replying to is "BULUS". The Qur'an never mentioned Paul/Saul/Bulus let alone call the scammer a prophet.
Infact, Muslim scholars have a consensus BULUS changed the teachings of Jesus.

I wonder where you get your false informations 🤔. Some even say 72 virgins in the Quran.

You didn't answer any single thing.

I am asking and begging, pls let us run a zoom/clubhouse call this weekend on "The trinity" or "Is Jesus God?".

MaxInDHouse:
If truly you are seeking truth tell me what you know Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching about Jesus that's not 100% truth.
In the world today there are thousands of religious groups worshiping thousands of different Gods so asking questions about only those claiming Christians alone shows you only listen to them and not to other religions.
Now if you singled out just one group (Jehovah's Witnesses) out of thousands of others claiming Christians that means you have a reservation for that group yet you said their teaching about Jesus is not 100% correct.
So start your seeking stuff by telling me what exactly is not accurate about JWs teaching of Jesus.

They believe that jesus is Archangel Gabriel, nothing in the Bible suggests such. Can you explain to me how?

fuckingAyaya:
why do you want to know the things of immortals are you an immortal? As ur brains are intact you don't like it?

Shouldn't I ask questions while seeking truth?

CodeTemplarr:
Because there is no supreme council like in Islam.

In islam there is a council constantly brainstorming on ways to create self-serving doctrines and rulings, Christianity is liberal on the other hand. No provision for strife-inspired doctrines. Every doctrine is fairly open to challenge and clarification. The fear of God is at the centre. The love of God is at the circumference of Christianity. Strife is discouraged. Coveteousness(material) too.

I am lost here please,
Christianity is liberal in what sense?
1. Can a council change the trinity to dinity removing the holy spirit?
2. Can a council permit adultery?
3. Can a council permit gambling?
4. Can a council rule The son is greater than the Father?
5. Can a council add a new chapter in the Bible?

Liberal in what sense, because I am talking about the foundation of the religion, not a random ruling like dressing or wearing skirts.

I can recall that for salvation a person must -
1. Believe Jesus is God and saviour, confessing and repenting.
2. Believe in the Death and Resurrection and that Jesus died for our sins.

A person that denies trinity has denied the first prerequisite for salvation, how then can you say "LIBERAL" in this sense?

Please elaborate

fuckingAyaya:
All the prophets that came before christ were not Christians but Jewish prophets, they communicated with God through an angel none ever communicated with God directly except moses. You said holy spirit is the weakest link in trinity? Don't let ur mouth or thoughts put you in trouble you can't come out from, you can blaspheme against God and be forgiven, even Jesus you can blaspheme against him and also be forgiven but you can't blaspheme against the holy spirit and be forgiven.do you know who the holy spirit is? The holy spirit is the spirit that Carries the presence of God. The holy spirit was the spirit that raised christ from the dead. The trinity can be best described as your body, spirit and soul. Inside ur body there's a spirit and also a soul. The holy spirit is the only spirit that knows the deep things in God's mind/thought. The holy spirit is one but he's everywhere if all the pastors and prophets in this world decide to hold a crusade at the same time in different countries the holy spirit will move and work miracles in all the crusades ground. When u hear God pass man that's just one of it. That sensation you feel when you pray is the holy spirit. And please bro I want to beg you if there's anything you don't understand about the holy spirit you can ask him to tell you and trust me he will reveal some secrets that will put you off balance, that holy spirit can open your eyes for you to see the evil that will happen to you in few minutes if you don't pray to avert it, he can also open you ears to allow you hear what a friend in a faraway city is currently gossiping about you, the holy spirit can also review to you what happened before your parents conceive you and what will happen in the next ten years to you, when you hear God pass man with everything no be beans. The holy spirit is a comforter sent by God to men after christ had ascended to comfort those with heavy and troubled heart if they seek him. Jesus is God just as you share same DNA with ur father.

Followers or Christ were first called Christians in Antioch decades after Jesus's rising. Also Jesus Christ was a jew by birth and lineage.

Jesus never rebuked Judaism but he rebuked the Pharisees and Priests for going against the scripture and doing things for their own good.

Jesus came to cleanse judaism adding new laws and fulfilling the covenant, Jesus said "Do not think I have come to abolish the laws of the prophets, I have not come but to fulfill".

This shows that Jesus came to fulfill the covenant, so his message is an extension of Judaism. But his movement didn't have an official name. The name Christians is fully acceptable.

Furthermore, I am not blasphaming the Holy Spirit, all I am saying is that it is nearly impossible to prove that the Holy spirit is fully God, coeternal and coequal to God.

Also, none of the questions have been answered, I want the questions answered with the question numbers.

NoahHadNoArk:
We will all meet God Someday, have a question ready for him.


Mine is,


Dearest God, is Jesus Christ your Biological son ?!

Biological?
A biological son clearly means is not eternal and wasn't there in the beginning, while also having only some of his fathers attributes.

Begotten also has same meaning.

muyico:
If you wanna know better??
Summit ya self to holy spirit
Moses only see shadow of God!
When saul/Paul seen Jesus Christ in his real form, he was blinded
Moses his eyes 👀 start shining like sun




Seeing God's Face and Being Meek - Light of Truth
No, Moses did not see God's face; the Bible states that no human can see God's face and live, but they did speak "face to face" in an intimate, friend-like manner, with God allowing Moses to see His back as His glory passed by. God explicitly told Moses in Exodus 33:20 that he couldn't see His face, but would be placed in a rock's crevice with His hand covering him, allowing him to glimpse His passing presence (His "back".

Please help answer the questions.
You have the Holy spirit, it will be easy for you to provide answers.
Thanks 🙏.

gohf:
Because Trinity is a false doctrine not from God, who isn't an author of such confusion.

Anyway why is Ireanaeus in that list of those who were not Trinitarians, because I have seen quotes where he claimed Jesus is God. @muslim100

Yh, Irenaeus is claimed by trinitarians but he was at best a subordinationist but he wasn't a trinitarian (nicene trinity)

In his book Against heresies Book 2, chapter 18 verse 8, the whole chapter is a good read.
"...For the Father, says He, is greater than I. John 14:28 The Father, therefore, has been declared by our Lord to excel with respect to knowledge; for this reason, that we, too, as long as we are connected with the scheme of things in this world, should leave perfect knowledge, and such questions [as have been mentioned], to God..."
he described jesus as lesser to God in knowledge. He calls the Father God and Jesus Christ Lord.

He believes Jesus to be divine but subordinate to the Father. He desisted from questioning "How" he was begotten.

dawnomike:
You can answer these questions with common sense and human wisdom... It is Divine

#1Cor. 1:27

Please help me answer them. That is the reason I asked them, I want answers.

I am more inclined to the Jehovah witness model of Jesus because it is more in-line with the Bible - not 100%.

According to the Trinity - Jesus/Son == Jehovah/Father == Holy spirit, 100% God, coequal and coeternal.

1. If Jesus was God, how is it that 4000 years of history before he was born, all the prophets sent by God (Abraham, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Noah, Moses, Daniel, Samuel, Jonah etc) never ever preached about something close to trinity. Does this mean that today we know God more than his most revered prophets?

2. Before the birth of Jesus, nobody among the ancient prophets or their followers ever even had any idea about the trinity, and surprisingly they had the complete Old testament - which we use to prove the trinity today!
Isn't it intriguing that (I know about trinity but Moses doesn't)?
Moses literally spoke to God face-to-face!

3. All the verses that are used to claim that Jesus is a part of the Godhead can be debunked easily logically, why?
Is God so ambiguous in delivering speech?

4. 1 John 5:7 which is the ultimate verse that clearly portrays trinity as it is today has been removed from like 3 versions of the bible, verse 8 is now divided to fill the void. Doesn't this ring a bell?

5. If truly to be saved I have to believe in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, how sure am I that the ancient prophets are saved since they never believed in such. All verses in the old testament are clear "God is One". Jesus clearly says "There is one that is good, The father in Heaven".
Is Jesus really as God as the father? Or is he subordinate.

6. The bible says that "God is unchangeable, God is not a man, God is not the son of man". These are the exact descriptions used for Jesus throughout the gospels by his followers.

7. God is omniscient and omnipotent. There is this verse where Jesus says "No one knows the hour, not even the son, but the father". Jesus is not omniscient.

8. If Jesus is god then he has a greater God he seeks when in distress. Before the cross incident Jesus asked God for the cup to pass away from him, then while on the cross jesus said "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani" - "My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me!".
God - Jesus are two different entities that have different purposes.

9. The case of the Holy spirit is totally different as 8t is the weakest link in the trinity and hardest to prove to be coequal and coeternal with the father. Nothing in the Bible supports the claim.

10. I have read history and it clearly supports the claim that the doctrine of trinity was born and raised to perfection in the councils of Nicea and Constantinople and others in the 4th century (3 centuries after jesus was raised).
In the 1st to 3rd centuries more the absolute majority of Christians were either Arians, modalists, Unitarians or Adoptionists far from todays Trinitarian dogma. When the trinitarians made a move they made trinity mainstream. But initially it wasn't.
Popular church fathers quoted till date that are not trinitarians;
1. Ireanaeus of lyons
2. Theophilus of Antioch
3. Tertullian
4. Origen
5. Clement of Rome
6. Arius etc.

If trinity is essential for salvation, why did the early-church produce untrinitatian fathers and why does the church praise these father that were not trinitarians?.

Infact, there is no Pre-nicean (4th century after jesus) church father who preached trinity.

11. If the Trinity is essential to knowing God correctly, then God withheld essential knowledge from Abraham, Moses, David, and Isaiah-men He called friends and spoke to directly.

12. I have never had two 100% identical answers on "Explain the trinity" from any two trinitarians - WHY?

Please and please, things like "It is complex because God is complex, God is a mystery, No one can completely know God" are not answers but traps to further confirm that the trinity isn't firmly rooted in scripture.

Please all answers should be scripture based or scholarly writing not later than the 2nd century, not mere logic.

TV01:
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

Hebrew 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power,

1. Philippians 2:6
Philippians 2:6 explicitly distinguishes Jesus from God, says he did not seize equality with God, and presents God as the one who later exalted and rewarded him.

A being who refuses equality with God, is exalted by God, and is given authority by God cannot logically be God himself. - I don't even understand the gymnastics Christians are pulling out of this verse that grammatically distinguishes Jesus from God.

The Bible clearly says "God doesn't change", "God is not a man", "God is not the son of man". All these attributes are 200% Jesus's!

2. Colossians 2:9 - if something dwells in you, grammatically and logically you are distinct from that thing - you are not it. In addition, the greek word used here is translated to "Godhead" by translators to foool followers. Check the word and its true meaning, then come back with the verse.

Ephesians 3:19 clearly debunks the funny claim "and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God" - All believers are also filled with the fullness of God according to the same bible.

I think you are as God as Jesus

3. Hebrews 1:1-9
I love it that you started from verse 1. The verse in Hebrew are clearly hierarchical, God spoke to us by his prophets, he now spoke by his son.
It never says "God spoke as His son or by Himself in His sons essence".
Who speaks ? God
Who are the instruments ? Prophets, his son.
God —> prophets —>people
God —> son —> people
The remaining verses are clearly praising Jesus not as God but as someone revered by God.
It is not rocket science, How can I pray to God and you call me God, or God says I bless this my Servant, how can two different entities separated by pronouns be same entity!

If Jesus is God why does paul say God's fullness dwells in him and also god's fullness dwells in believers?
Why doesn't he just day "Jesus is God" instead of comparing Jesus to you?

Paul tried while wanting to make jesus god, but he did a bad job after all. Paul the self appointed prophet!

TV01:
Eye-witnesses for all biblical records. Who saw jibreel give mohammed a book or a recitation. No one. Witness is mohammed to mohammed for mohammed (from mohammed really - we know )

Eye witnesses that saw when God inspired the gospel to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John or Pauls epistles? They saw God! 😳 WOW!

I remember the zombie incident in the bible 😂 😂 😂, eye witnesses indeed.

I have been reading the bible for more tha 10 years, so I am fully aware of what I am saying.

TV01:
Which non-muslim historical text confirms the koran or hadiths?

The Quranic manuscripts during the century of the prophet are 100% identical to what we have today. The earliest manuscript of the Bible are more thay a century from Jesus. No complete manuscripts were gotten until up to 3-4 centuries after Jesus.
Historically, the Qur'an and Hadith stand the test of historical preservation than the Bible!
Ask google.

TV01:
Two ways of accounting for ancestry. Patrilineal and Matrilineal. Muhammed goes back no further than Adnan. Anything further is wishful thinking.

Lies from the pit of hell!
Both geneologies from matthew and like start thus;
Luke "Jesus ... being the son of Joseph"
Matrhew "Jacob begat Joseph..."

Both are clearly of joseph. Also Jewish geneologies like Arab geneologies were always patrilineal never matrilineal. How can son-of, son-of, son-of be matrilineal? Nothing like daughter of even in your so called mary side geneology.

Why then did the two geneologies converge until they reach David then they diverge?

The explanation that they are two different geneologies came centuries later to protect scripture, nothing more.!

So this is a major contradiction in the Bible!

TV01:
Explain to yourself. Islam is regressive.

You had no rebuttal, so I understand.

TV01:
islam teaches terror, war and destruction - so potentially all adherents are terrorists, brigands

No rebuttal also, usual atracks when there is no proof.

TV01:
Yes now. muslims have zero agency and no god. So Christians play them like puppets.

Same here

TV01:
Nigerian genocide - Islam
South Sudanese genocide - Islam
DR Congo genocide - Islam
Saudi-Yemen - Islam
Iran vs. Iraq - Islam
Pakistan vs,. Bangladesh - Islam

90% of all deaths through wars in the world were by Christians
British Empire, American, German, Belgian, french, Portuguese, Italian, Dutch etc
World war I, world war II - Hiroshima and Nagasaki were niked by Christians.
All deaths caused by muslims in the world throughout history is not upto 5% of what Christians have done (google, AI).
They raped your forefathers, killed enslaved them to sell to you the Christianity you are busy defending today.
Your usual replies "They didn't do it for Christianity" - Of course they did!
They brought Christianity while forcing it on your forefathers.
95% of deaths in African history through wars and genocides were by Christian missionaries.
King Leopold of Belgium na play?
10s of millions of bombs have been thrown by the US Christian regime, more than all others in the world combined!, not mentioning other Chrsitian regimes.
A person can boldly say that 70% of the millions of bombs used to kill in the world were by Christians.

Till date some of these countries still have UXOs, and are afraid to do anything with vast lands because of Christian killings.

Genocide upon genocide!

I can go on and on!

TV01:
You are dawah 001. Nothing new. You are just learning. Claiming perfect preservation for the koran.Please!

Another one

TV01:
12 instances in The Gospel according to Matthew alone - some below. Leave bible, it's not for koranists !

Matthew 2:2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
Matthew 8:2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”
Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.”
Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
Matthew 28:9 The Women Worship the Risen Lord And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, “Rejoice!” So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.

How does any of these verses show that
1. Jesus is God
2. Jesus is coeternal with God
3. Jesus is coequal to God

These verses you cited use proskuneð, a word that means homage, not exclusive divine worship. The bible applies it to kings, prophets, angels, and even believers. None of these passages say Jesus is God; they show reverence toward God's appointed Messiah. The Bible consistently distinguishes Jesus from the one true God.

You have been deceived Oh Christians!

TV01:
mohammeds lineage cannot be reliably traced beyond one of if forebearers named Adnan. Adnans descent from "ishmael" is a claim. There is no evidence. As all islamic scholars know - despite many attempts to do so.

Another argument from your mouth - clearly not a brain based argument!
Gooogle is your friend!
Don't always rely on your pastor,he is as human as you are. No evidence - 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

Cannot be traced - yet prophets Muhammad's detractors, haters etc from his kin and other opponent families never even had the guts to say anything about his pure lineage. For 1400 years.

TV01:
You are not bringing anything I haven't heard before - countess times. If\when you do, I may consider it.

You haven't even had the honor of proving that Jesus is God, then imagine the holy spirit! That one wil be a pure smack.

As a keyboard warrior that you are, I know you will always refuse my request for a 1 and 1 with 10 guests on zoom. 5 from your side and 5 from mine. or any number of guests you want.

Maybe I missed answering some, that is because I prefer oral discussions, I hate writing long notes on mobile phone.

TV01:
Nope. The Lord Jesus Christ called God His Father. The allah of the koran is not a father to anyone or anything. Further, Jesus as a name is a direct reference to The Name of god Almighty - Jesus - Jehoshua - "The Lord Our Saviour". Names matter .

All the names of the biblical prophets (and even the names of the kings and priests) make direct reference to YAHWEH and His attributes. Isaiah = "Yahweh is salvation". Jeremiah = "Yahweh will exalt". Ezekiel = "God strengthens".

Allah can never be the God or the name of the God of Jesus. It's in the name . What does mohammed or any of the multiple variations mean? Tie it to God Almighty. tie it to YAHWEH if you can. What does isa mean? It is not a direct transliteration of the name Jesus, nor does it have any direct reference to The Name revealed by The Everlasting God.

On that point alone, islam falls flat. A huge failure, a colossal scam. It's why it forbids curiosity and learning. It is rigid and controlling and can never engender advancement.

It is not the revealed name of God. End of story. It is a generic term which can be used by any adherent of any faith or no faith.

No one claimed numbers signify truth. It's muslims that are always prating about islam being the fastest growing religion. Show me one video where an knowledgeable Christian apologist lost a debate to a muslim equivalent. Islam is busted, With the advent of the internet, the gatekeeping has ceased. It's all out there. And it's a sorry tale, a sad story.


Show me how the koran was given by allah to jibreel and then to mohammed. In fact, just show how the koran muhammed received was captured by mohammed into a written form and transmitted unchanged through the centuries.

The bible - prophetic and historically attested to by non-christians and objective observers. The koran has no external or objective affirmation.

What I now is that there is no record of mohammed descending from Ishamael - only claims. I also know that mohammed himself said no one should try and parse his geneology past his grandfather. Read your koran

Oga one thing! Just one thing. Please na .

It's proof that isalm is regressive and cannot advance humanity. And makes it adherents simple-minded and less intelligent than they were or should be.

Can't invent, can't create, can't disseminate can't debate - come to Christ and get wisdom. Get wisdom and come to Christ.

That's why the North is filled with almanjiri only good for reproducing the slawter and tear-or of the ROP founder.

Make up your own rules if you will The bible is clear to those who approach and read it with an open and humble heart. You read the bible to support the falsehood f islam and expect understanding and enlightenment. No you just entrench your darkness and ignorance.

I should meet you for a zoom call to discuss something I have seen falsified, debunked and ridiculed on every single point? Spare me. Happy to educate you right here.


TV

1. Jesus Christ called the father "God", he prayed to him, he even cried to him saying "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me".
"god" praying to "GOD". This is as clear as daylight for anyone that wants truth not blind followership.

2. "Show me how the Qur'an was given to Allah to Jibreel" , show me how the bible was inspired by God directly to prophets.
Funny how you use logic that Christianity isn't immune to.

3. "The Qur'an has no external affirmarion"
Ask Google, ask AI. Between the Qur'an and bible which is more preserved as it was from its time or revelation.

4. Muhammad didn't descend from Ishmael
I just dey laff, because omo!
History is your friend, just read!
Ancient Arabs were proud of kinship than any other thing. If fact was false the main enemies of Islam 1400 years ago would have scored points with it. But they couldn't deny the fact which is so clear.
I just remembered that two gospels couldn't even agree on the genealogy of Jesus. Two completely different genealogies while he doesn't have a father.

5. North filled with Almajiri - makes islam false?
There are 2 billion+ muslims in the world with 50+ Muslim majority countries. Only Nigeria and maybe Niger have the Almajiri system. It is pure ignorance and foolishness to say "it is an Islamic thing".
Also 90% of Almajiris in Nigeria today are followers of sect known as the Tijjaniyya sect. Tijjani - founder of Tijjaniyya was born ~250 years ago, 1150 year after Prophet Muhammad.

6. 2 billion+ muslims worldwide, ISIS, ISWAP, BH, Al-qaeda total population at most ~60,000 (confirm online).
If you meet 50 muslims on the way and ask them if they support any of these groups, 48 or 49 will objectively say "NO" (confirm with questionnaire).
Just 0.000015 of muslims - yet haters say all muslims are terrorists

I am very sure that more than 0.0009 percentage of Christians worldwide have commited adultery, check the stats of infidelity in marraiges worldwide. Does this mean all Christians are adulterers?

7. Also, all these groups were only founded when the US intervened, and the US have clearly admitted that they created ISIS.
The faces behind the terrorism are Christian leaders

8. All muslim countries that entered into war in the 20th - 21st century was 100% due to the US and their allies coming in the name of freedom to destabilize the countries.
Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria etc.
Saudi, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Indonesia, Egypt, Malaysia, Algeria, Brunei, Malaysia, Tunisia, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Jordan, Kazakhstan etc are all muslim countries.
Just a few countries out of ~50 muslim countries have displayed any form of what is called by the media as "Islmaic terrorism", yet "All muslims are terrorists".

9. You said "show me", and yet you are running away from an explanation via zoom or even clubhouse.

10. Jesus Christ - The son of man is a messenger and prophet of God - it is clesrly written in the Bible.
The Bible also says God is not a man or son of man.
Jesus is my prophet - I revere him! He is far from divine.

# Miracles ? Many prophets performed miracles - Moses, Elijah.
# Fatherless conception? How About Adam without any parents.
# Died and resurrected? Enoch didn't even taste death, he was taken alive, Melchizedek didn't have beginning or end of days.
# Raised the dead ? Elijah and Elisha both did.
Called the begotten son ? David is also the "begotten son" according to the bible.
Claimed divinity ? He never did.

He never accepted worship, how then is he GOD?

11. Funny assertion "Muhammad said no one should pass his genealogy past his grandfather"? Ignorance in display. Your pastor misinformed you.
You post replies with mobile data, atleast sesrch some stuff before you say anything.

12. Finally, I don't know what to say. I don't have tome on myside to be typing for 30mins and more. If you can spare 1 hour 30mins (just a one timer) of your time lets meet on zoom. Writing long epistles here is exhausting.

TV01:
I do know that allah is no god. muhammed is no prophet sent by the Almighty God, and the koran is not divinely inspired, but a mixture of c&p, plagiarism, ancient fables and a lurid imagination.


Yes, agreed. Both pre- and post-islamic arabs and others used the term allah to refer to a supreme being. It's a generic name, not the revealed name of the Almighty.



Acknowledgement of a Supreme being - and even having a unique descriptor - does not mean your deity, religion, prophet or scriptures are true. And, there is no rule, but God chose to do so, which makes sense as it differentiates Him from all the other named gods such as molech, baal etc, and falsifies your islamic religion and it's claim to be a continuation of Judaism as the name is not carried through. Busted !!!


"Authentic" is purely subjective and no one with understanding outside islam (and this includes well-read muslims) consider hadith compilations science-based. And I have to burst your bubble re koranic preservation - it is widely known and acknowledged that there have been a number of canonisation events. There wasn't even agreement as to what constitutes the koran at the first attempt. Let's nt go down the rabbit hole of "goats eating the verses containing stoning, or whether it shuld be 116, 114 or a 112 chapters. Koranic preservation was debunked a while back. Did you not get the dawah update memo .


Reaching - although many believe it, there is no evidence that Ishmael is a descendant of Abraham. Are Arabs Hebrews?
ROPers are still citing Deuteronomy 18:18? Alfa, your are not on the latest narrative. Go for reset, updates or decommissioning .

And they were not prophets.

What was waraqa's provenance? Who sent him, who affirmed him? And no, waraqa did not "confirm the prophecy of another prophet from the previous scriptures" 1. Because there is no such prophecy and 2. Because he merely claimed the being mohammed encountered as jibreel. A defence of islam always requires lies.


Story! Show us one invention that transformed society or advanced humanity that emanated from the islamic world.

The best the so called islamic golden age did was aggregate knowledge already acquired. Translation, canons, libraries etc. But even that was mostly by scholars and intellects that had been conquered, not by native muslims. That didn't last long. As islam embeds, so does darkness, unenlightenment and ignorance. Boko Haram se?



In a sense, yes. Judaism was sent by Yahweh, The Everlasting God. And the Jews were blessed - quite evidently. The fact that the Jews have turned and\or misunderstood the prophecies does not make it it a false religion for it's time or the people it was sent too. Whereas, there is no prophetic, historical or achaeological validation of islam.

And the blessedness of Christianity is self-evident. It allows for scientific discovery, academic inquiry in the most rigorous fashion. All the major scientific and technological advancements that humanity enjoys emanate from Judo-Christian nations - even though many could rightly be considered post-Christian. Even Israel is largely Liberal. Yet no other religions or nations have done anything of note.

And islam has the biggest indictment in this regard. Even where individual muslims invent, create or make real credible breakthroughs, it's in a native JudeoChristian setting. mulsims, where is your god? You know,the one with no name, no miralces, nothing to attest him. Come to Christ.


Cool yourself down - have some zam-zam water


Answer my previous question please - One thing!

Nothing innovative, inventive or creative emanates from islam - by design! islams rigidity and lack of curiosity can only produce darkness. What you actually reference testifies against islam. Any advances or breakthroughs were by natives of lands conquered by muslims, not native muslims. And for a while, such scholarly work may have continued and progressed, and I credited islam with some of the early collations of scholarly works. But as islam embeds, and takes hold, darkness follows, as sure as night - forgive the pun - follows day.


May The Good Lord open your eyes.


TV

1. I do know that Allah the the God of Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is a great prophet of Allah born without a father nothing more nothing less.

2. Allah is not a generic name, it is the name reserved for "The God" whether by Idolators or monotheists. An Arab idolator calls all other deities Ilah - God, but reserve Allah for who they believe to be the creator of all that exist.

3. Becoming the religion with the most adherents doesn't make Christianity the true religion, and nothing makes it so. 99% of logical debates with muslims always makes Islam look more coherent and logical compared to Christianity.

4. "Authenticity is pury subjective" - Philosophy here, just like "How do we really know what we have is knowledge", "Truth is subjective". These are philosophical arguments!
Applies to both Islam and Christianity in equal terms, so using it against Islam doesn't make Christianity immune to your claim.
1. The bible is "inspired" by God
2. The Qur'an and Hadith were passed in written and orally directly from the source

Which is more logically coherent to be logical?

5. This is surely ignorance - of the highest degree. The bible clearly says Ishmael is the son of Abraham. I don't know how a Christian doesn't even know it. The genealogy of Muhammad clearly links him to Abraham, even non muslims can't deny the fact.

6. I don't have to show you anything, you should ask Google for informations that are readily available. I used my time to prepare a prompt you should use on AI. You clearly did - and you are ashamed after searching and seeing for yourself the Muslim contributions to science.

7. Again, Is scientific discovery a prerequisite/(a proof) that a religion is true? I guess every sensible and logical human being will say "No".

8. For the record, Christians lose 99% of debates against Islam while stumbling and stuttering on easy questions on their theology.

9. The Boko haram/Terrorism argument is flawed, also I cannot come to Christ while no two Christians can explain "Trinity" the same way without contradictory statements - never have I gotten 💯 same explanation of trinity from different Christians.
If for example Christianity is true, and no 2 Christians have same understanding of trinity will God hold me accountable for not believing Jesus as God when he called him a prophet in the bible, and he also prayed to God in the bible, He also said he was ignorant of THE HOUR. I guess no - God is just.

10. If you are in for a zoom/meet debate anytime of your choice, I will be pleased.

TV01:
So you agree, allah is not a personal, revealed name. It's a "term"

So not the revealed personal name of the Creator?

Ok then, what is the revealed or personal name of the islamic god

Isnad? That is an islamic contrivance that essentially means folklore

What are mohammeds antecedents? Specifically his connection to the 12 tribes f Israel, from where YAHWEH' prophets emanated. Likewise the bona fides of Waraqua, who confirmed his cave encounter as a divinely ordered angelic encounter?

Algebraic notions was evident in ancient Babylon, through Egypt and Greece.. Let me be clear, islam is inherently incapable of scientific rigour, rational thinking and hence technological advancement.

There may have been periods during islamic expansionism that advancement were made in conquered nations, which would have been attributed to islam by default, but islamic thinking itself did not produce these advances.

Persia was not an islamic country, it was conquered by islam. I grant that there was a period of knowledge gathering and preservation in the islamic empire, but not anything new or innovative due to islam itself.

Fifteen million Jews have 25% of the Nobel peace prizes. The whole of islam has 2 and a bit - shared amongst 2 billion people. Enough said


TV

Omo, this one no know anything .

Where do I even start!
1. Pagan Arabs worshipped Idols and believed that there is a greater God in heaven, they worshipped idols so the Idols could intercede for them. So yes, Allah is the term for "The God" in Arabic, this name isn't shared among any dieties.
Even pagan Arabs acknowledged it, but they were still idolators.

2. What rule necessitates that God must have a personal name?
While Allah is the name used solely for the god in heaven, all other semetic languages have that same root for the general name for God. I-L-H
In Aramaic it is Alaha/Elaha, in Hebrew it is El/Eloah/Elohim, in Arabic it is Allah - "The God".
This entity is always singled out as greater than all other "false deities".

3. Isnad - An authentic hadith has more credibility than the bible - Abeg ask any AI model! A folklore doesn't have a chain of narration (isnad). The hadith is preserved just like the Qur'an which also has it's isnaad. The religion of Islam is the only religion that necessitates that its sources are credibly preserved.

4. Muhammad ﷺ is a descendant of kedar a son of Ishmael the son of Abraham. The bible says about Ishmael "I will make him into a great nation", the bible is referenced Ishmael's progeny as a blessed nation.
Forgetten Deuteronomy 18:18 "I will raise up a prophet like you from among thy brothers". - who are the brothers of Israelites? No doubt the Ishmaelites.

So your inference is dead on arrival - Muhammad doesn't have to be "Israelite/(from the 12 tribes) to be a prophet. Jethro, job etc were not from the 12 tribes.

Waraqa was a Christian uncle of Khadija who confirmed the prophecy of another prophet from the previous scriptures.

5. Olodo!
The Islamic golden age is a joke to you? Try dey read, ignorance is not good.
What makes islam incapable of scientific inventions when infact they set the foundation?

6. Using your noble prize logic, Judaism is the true religion since 15 million has produced 1 in every 4 noble prize winners compared to 2.5 billion (~170x no. of jews) christians getting 65 - 70%.

7.

8. Finally use this prompt on any AI model of your choice "Without any prejudices or biases, list the inventions made by muslims and how muslims contributed to scientific breakthroughs and knowledge in history. What extraordinary scientific developments have muslims ever made, also is there any field that has a muslim as its founding father/ a towering figure."

BlackfireX:
This shows how myopic you are ERU

What do you expect from a child from mutah

If Allah Muhammad can get trinity wrong by saying it is Jesus Mary and Allah, what do you expect ERU arabu to continue doing?

IF Allah ( one of the idol in mecca that Muhammad elevated, because his father Abdullah was an idol worshipper and uncle mutallahb )

Yahweh is not Allah...they are not the same

My God my God why has thou forsaken me
Is this your missile to destroy Christain faith ... you are such a kid ... the verse itself proves the messiah, divinity preexisting of Yasua

Do you have a bible? Read where it was prophesied where he quoted those words verbatim how Christ will be crucified, his garment parted, and all that.

This further proves that Islam was a lie, Muhammad a fraud, Allah an idol when it lied that Yasua Al massih didn't due on the cross...


You see in a debate you won't last ...I told you all your questions are fried rice.

I pray Ruh AL -Qudus open your eyes to see the truth

Muhammad is dead from the poison of a Jewish woman...but Yasua is sitted in heaven

1. Mutah

2. If only you had little knowledge.

3. Allah - name of God in Arabic. Even Arab Christians say Allahu Akbar. Maybe they too worship an Idol.

4. 💯, Yahweh in the bible is surely not Allah, Allah is all powerful. Yahweh of the bible is a times poweless.

5. "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me" - jesus of the bible praying to a greater God! Wonderful.
Crying 😭😭 to be saved from death - by who?

6. I have had a bible for more than 10 years.

7. Jesus never died on the cross, even the Bible is not sure. Many contradictory accounts about the death and resurrection story from the bible.

8. Islam is the final message of God to Mankind. The God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, John, Jesus etc. sent Muhammad to be his final messenger to deliver the final testament of his message to mankind.

All the above prophets were Muslims.
A muslim is anybody that submits his will totally to the one true creator of all that exists and obeya his commands.

BlackfireX:
Maybe we allow people to look at our conversation and see who is lying ERU IMOLE


Like I said you will now be ignored

Run away, no shame! 😭😭😭
Chai, and the funny this is that all Christians run away just like you did 🤣🤣🤣, you can't defend your fragile religion.

Sha, continue worshipping a god that said "My God, My God, do not forsake me" praying to Allah to help him escape death.

BlackfireX:
Hahaha

Off point ? Your questions are so simple that the answers are so easy ...but you panicked ...when answers keep coming..why not wait for the rest...

But as usual ERU IMOLE must always show there colour.


You will now be ignored

If you know you are not a keyboard warrior and really want to answer, Abeg, Please, Biko ....Abeg

Abeg choose one platform so you can answer my questions while I am listening. Like 3 answers everyday - just 30mins at most.

Na beg I dey beg

BlackfireX:
Hahaha

Off point ? Your questions are so simple that the answers are so easy ...but you panicked ...when answers keep coming..why not wait for the rest...

But as usual ERU IMOLE must always show there colour.


You will now be ignored

Initially escaped from zoom/meet/clubhouse call and has finally escaped totally.
All of you are the same. The ones debating Zakir Naik, or Ahmed Deedat RH, etx.

are you not ashamed that you have no answers for the so-called "easy questions".

Please don't run, I want answers, call others to help you answer my questions, including your PASTORS.

TV01:
All the above is inconsequential.

1. Your scriptures declare all men are slaves of allah
2. As you noted, Abd\Abdi or variations can be translated as slave or servant in context and socially black people are derogatorily referred to as slave by the Arab\Arabized world. Many bear the name Abdi.

Long-winded (and needless) "scholarizing" does not change that.


TV

Where should I even start answering this one!
1. All men are servants of God - who even denies that?
2. "ARABS CALL BLACKS ABD" Please there are millions of Arab videos on the internet with black people, I want just one video as evidence.
3. Abd - servant, Abdi - My servant, Abdul - no meaning. Hence I don't even know what you are trying to pass.

BlackfireX:
If you and your fellow ERU have been patient I would get to that... you gave me 5 days abi?

From my busy schedule I am trying to reply you.

You asked a question calmly wait for the reply

Are u scared?

Scared of you that cannot even give a single answer?

For the record, sha yourr replies are not answers. They are all off point.

Explore2xmore:
@BlackfireX
You totally failed to tackle the questions but just sidestepped them. Not a single Old Testament prophet ever taught about the Trinity, and you didn’t provide any evidence to the contrary. When God said, Let there be light, it wasn’t about a second divine person it was simply God speaking, not a Trinity. Jesus referred to the Father as the only true God (John 17:3), which completely undermines the idea of co-equal Trinitarian claims. You didn’t show any verse where the Holy Spirit is worshipped by any prophet or apostle. Doctrines that pop up centuries later in church councils aren’t original revelations they’re just later interpretations.

You should take advantage of the 5 days time frame given you to respond.

Thank you very much.
I gave a series of questions so he could answer each one of them, but he is trying to aggregate everything and give summarised answers - which is not acceptable.

BlackfireX:
I don come again
Your question in number 5 is confusing.

You mean that there is no trinity verse in the bible and that 1 John 5 vs 7 was put inside or what?


There are many verses of the bible that talks about ONE Yahweh that was expressed as the FATHER.. the WORD OF GOD that became flesh and dwell among us and died for our sins as we can't save ourselves, Christianity is God looking for and to redeemed the fallen man to himsel.....the HOLY SPIRIT.

When you read Genesis it shows this beautiful and wonderful God creating existence in unity...shall we

Gen 1 vs 1 to 3(trinity) watch the beautiful verse speak to your soul
King James Version (KJV):
​Genesis 1:1-31 (KJV)
​1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
​2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
​3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


The Father....The Word( let there be) ....The Spirit of God.


I still have more if you want

These are not answers.

Where does this say
The father/Son/Holy spirit are coequal (have same power) and coeternal.

1 john 5:7 was removed from 3 versions of the bible totally. You can google it.

The word of God in the verse is "Be"!

Also it is funny how Christians falsely translate these verses because they originally belonged to JEWs and no jew ever translated it as trinity. And God did not fault them instead he brought more prophets from among them.

Throughout history Jews were the chosen of God - Why didn't any jew ever know that the verses mean trinity, Jesus didn't also say it means trinity. Nothing in the Bible says so only Church fathers.

🥺 You don't have answers. These scripts are not working.

If only we were on a call, CHAI

BlackfireX:
I thought you wanted to ask hard questions since is this ones you asked bo problemo.


Your Questions is narrowed down to Trinity, and I can see your misinformation and mindset, for if Allah and Muhammed can get it wrong by saying trinity is Jesus Mary and Allah...very funny ... how much more you.

Let me start from question 15 that zakir naik used in his dawah John 17 vs 3.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


Very beautiful verse, but if you read the other verses it shows the divinity preexisting of Jesus Christ Yasua Al massih.

Let's check it out...can an ordinary person say this..

John 17 vs 1
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

John17 vs 5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17 vs 10
And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

Beautiful verses from that same John 17 that shows the Messaiship and divinity and Pre existing of Yasua, the judge of the world.

If The Holy Son was not lying in vs 3 obviously he wasn't lying in the verses above

Should I go on or move to the other item

Where does any of these verses show that Moses or Abraham taught their followers trinity?
Where do These verses show that the Holy spirit has the same power and is as old as the father?

All these verses are 💯 showing that jesus is a subordinate. He was asking the father (God) to do something for him.

If Jesus was coequal a d coeternal - Then why did he have to ask someone that has same power with him to help him do something??

I wonder how these logical thoughts are hard for 🤔.

Please 🥺🥺🙏🙏, These are not answers!

If You are equal and have same power with me and you ask me - Glorify me, Glorify thy son! I will say who is this one, do it by your self - You are the same as me, I have the same power as you do.


Jesus literally panicked on the cross "Eli, Eli, Why have you forsaken me" - You only cry to your master/a gteater being for something you are unable.


Please I need answers.

BlackfireX:
Question 16 and 17

It is either you have never read the bible ( love story between God and man) or you are acting out dawah script but aall the same this is the answer.


When the Lord Jesus was about to go back to the Father ... He among many things He taught the disciples told them this .... let's read those beautiful words of our Lord and saviour.

​Matthew 28:19
​Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

This He told the Apostles ( in which the Quran dosent even know there names) can you see the great commission, can you see the Divinity, can you see the trinity, can you see the work given to the disciples

I am coming let me get some milk

1 want you to answer my questions one after the other.
Also, how does "Baptism in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit" mean Jesus = Jehova = Holy spirit and they are coequal and coeternal. ?? How on earth!

If I say, do so and so because of Me, my father and wife. Does it mean we are coequal coeternal beings?

Please be serious for once. This was the reason I wanted a one on one debate.

BlackfireX:
Yes I called you ERU....


So if arabu level called you Abdul you are happy


But I called you the same in yoruba language you are angry?



Ask the questions here let me answer

My First Question is a single multilayered set of questions on TRINITY

Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Lot, Jacob, David, Solomon etc. These prophets were of God, sent to deliver the message of truth to mankind.
1. Give an evidence which shows they know anything about trinity?
2. Did they teach about trinity, where is the scriptural evidence?
3. Did the old testament ever implicitly or explicitly point out that the holy spirit or Jesus is God, where is the evidence?
4. Jews were the followers of Moses, why didn't moses teach them about the trinity, if he did show the evidence?
5. Why is the only verse that talked about trinity (1 John 5:7) removed from the bible?
6. If trinity is a prerequisite to getting saved - which of these prophets is saved?
7. Show me just one verse in the bible that shows that the holy spirit can be worshipped.
8. Why wasn't the Trinitarian Dogma mainstream Christianity until the counclis of Nicea and Constantinople?
9. Why were the earliest Christians either Arians, modalists, Unitarians or Adoptionists and not Trinitarians?
10. Show were any biblical prophet taught that the Godhead as three coequal and coeternal beings.
11. Show any verse that even implicitly shows that the Holy spirit is coequal and coeternal with God the father.
12. If any Prophet taught the trinity before Christianity why is there no historical evidence that shows so?
13. Why is it that not even one follower of previous prophets ever knew about the concept of trinity.
14. Show one place where the holy spirit is worshipped as God as coequal and coeternal
15. Why did jesus say the Father is the only true God in John 17:3, while it will mean he eas lying?
16. Why didn't the Apostles teach the doctrine?
17. The Church today makes the trinity the bedrock of Christianity and calls deniers "nonbelievers in christ", while the earliest Apostles and Church fathers never ever mentioned the word or taught about the concept. Does this mean that the 4th century Christians knew more than the earliest Christians?

These are my first set of Questions. You have as long as it takes to answer them - 5 days won't be too short I think 🤔.

BlackfireX:
Yes I called you ERU....


So if arabu level called you Abdul you are happy


But I called you the same in yoruba language you are angry?



Ask the questions here let me answer

Christians always show their ignorance everywhere 😂😂 😂.

For the record - Arabs don't say Abdul, it doesn't have any meaning in Arabic, only non Arabs say Abdul.

Abdul is a meaningless word.
Abd is the Arabic word for slave or servant, and no Arab calls anyone Abd.

The names are as follows Abdullah, Abdurrahman, Abdurraheem, Abdulmalik etc. meaning servant of Allah, servant of the most merciful, servant of the most beneficent, servant of the true king. etc.

So it is pure ignorance to say "Arabs say Abdul" - they don't even know it exists.

Let me school you Abeg
Abd - Servant
Al - The
Rahman - The most beneficient

Joining them - Abd'AlRahman - AbdArrahman pronounced Abdurrahman together it becomes a posessive sentence. Servant of the most beneficent.

Abdul means - Servant the
Al'abd means - The servant

Thanks to me, your ignorance have been cleared on this matter.

BlackfireX:
No need I ask you questions for now.

Ask your question one by one and I will reply one after the other....and yes those questions are simple like ice cream.

Tell me a Christian community that is still existing after Muslims invaded there land? Jizya so I pay you money after kidnapping my community is that not like bandits( see don't let's crack open the foul odour of islam) see the way you painted the dhimi story beautifully do I look like unintelligent to you.


All the land occupied by Muslims today was through jihad.

Imagine I come to your house by invading it and holding you hostage telling you until you pay some amount you will be free to briefly move around.

We are not slaves do you understand


Ask your questions Eru and let me answer

You just called me eru - slave.
Can we just hold a clubhouse call now or any platform you choose, so we can do one topic at a time. Writing like this won't take us anywhere.

BlackfireX:
i guess you didnt read the part where it is i rhat will be answering your simple questions.

oh so if i reply you wont read.


running? i guess you are the one

giving me order 'i INSIST on my proposal"

Hey like i said i am not your dhimi or an abdul


i can give you your answers here .

Why resolve to lying,
How does my words in quotes "I prefer" translate to "I insist"?

My questions are not simple and I also expect questions from you, zoom/meet/clubhouse are better options for these kind of conversations.

It is not like I will be at advantage on any of these platforms, so I don't get why you are making it look like I am taking advantage of you.

In addition, a dhimmi is a christian/jew/other that lives in an Islamic state that practices the Shari'ah. He is totally under the protection of the state in every circumstance including wars, they are not allowed to fight. They pay jizyah - a tax stipulated by the state (they don't pay the muslim zakkah) to be protected. A dhimmi is free to worship his god - with public restrictions, work, own property, run shops, hospitals, finance, science, legal protection. The jizyah is cut based on the dhimmis economic status.

If this sounds unfair, then I guess there is no fair system anywhere in the world - not the democratic system used worldwide that extorts citizens.

Also, the usual use of "ABDUL" as a slur.
Abd means slave or servant. Arab muslims and Christians alike use Abdul-*** as names of subservience to God. A Christian answers Abdul-Masih (servant of jesus), just like a muslim bears Abdullah (servant of Allah). This is a show of ignorance, just like some ignoramuses say "Allah is a moon god" while the word Allah is literally found in the Arabic Bible in its thousands.

BlackfireX:
But I can give you the answer right here.

If you want what you proposed I accept

I just answered saying "I prefer my proposal" because you literally said you accept if I insist.

All of a sudden "I AM NOT YOUR DHIMMI".

I don't think it is hard to spot who is wrong here.

BlackfireX:
I am not your Dhimi .


I can give you response here

But you suggested online , I said ok though I still prefer giving the response to a simple questions from you on NL


But saying you prefer your proposal...NAH .... I AM NOT YOUR DHIMI

Afraid? Running?
I have never ran from a debate, and I can swear by Allah that atleast 4 Christians have ran away from me.....if you want to add to this number you are free.

Maybe you skipped the part I said personally oral conversation is better, many people skip infos while reading long writeups.

A perfect example is that you didn't care to read just 4 - 5 lines of my reply, imagine long epistles in the name of 'answer'.

Listening is more engaging and more information is digested - personally!

Also, the dhimmi word doesn't anger me as it is part of Islam.