lexiconkabir:


Its not about claiming,: its about, did they put the translations in their right context,we have people that translated the Quran and it was not accepted from them, ok tell me why they all had the same idea that it should be angels all at once, coincidence?

They all had the same idea because they all believe Allah doesn't hymn praise at anyone. But forgetting that the Koran is the word of Allah himself thay alleged that the angels were the one hymming the praise.

I refuse to accept this lie.

lexiconkabir:


His Lord! Allah.



Do you realise Allah was qyoting an event in the past and so HE is using the exact words He used when he called MUSA.



Did you read this?

“Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, sometimes refers to Himself in the singular, by name or by use of a pronoun, and sometimes by use of the plural, as in the phrase (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, We have given you a manifest victory” [al-Fath 48:1], and other similar phrases. But Allaah never refers to Himself by use of the dual, because the plural refers to the respect that He deserves, and may refer to His names and attributes, whereas the dual refers to a specific number (and nothing else), and He is far above that.” (Al-‘Aqeedah al-Tadmuriyyah by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, p. 75).

This short excerpts should do the job, except if you are an enemy of truth.

Contrary to this nonsense you keep repeating, Muslim scholar M. A. S. Abdel Haleem admits,

It should be pointed out that in pre-Islamic literature, and during the time of the revelation of the Qur'an, pronouns do not appear to have been used as indicative of status; they did not change with social status, and the plural of majesty, in particular, does not appear to have been used by, or for addressing or referring to, kings or chiefs. The Prophet and his early successors did not use it for themselves nor in their letters to address kings or governors. It was clearly in the Qur'an that such usage was introduced, as has been shown, on the basis of a highly sophisticated application of the concept of plurality Grammatical Shift For Rhetorical Purposes: Iltifat and Related Features in the Qur’an”, Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 55, No. 3 (1992), p. 414. Haleem provides the following footnote in connection with this observation: M. Sa'rān, al-Lugha wa'l-mujtama' (Cairo, 1963), 139-58.

some justification must be given for the assertion that it really explains what is going on in the Qur'an. If such an idiom was introduced into Arabic by the Qur’an, why is this new idiom never explained? Why is there no record of Muhammad explaining it in the Hadith? And since it never is explained in either the Qur’an or the Hadith, what is the proof that the Qur’an introduces such an idiom in the first place?

lexiconkabir:


Here are few translations

Wahiduddin Khan [The angels say], Every single one of us has his place assigned:

Abdel Haleem [The angels say], ‘Every single one of us has his appointed place:

Ahmed Ali "There is not one of us who does not have his appointed place," (declare the angels.)

Ali Ünal (The angels whom they assert to be God’s daughters say): "There is none among us but has his duty and position assigned,

Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali And in no way is there one of us, (i.e., the angels) except that he has a known station,

Muhammad Taqi Usmani And (the angels say,) .There is no one among us who does not have a known station,

Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) [The angels say], "There is not among us any except that he has a known position.
Dr. Munir Munshey (The angels say) "Every single one of us has been assigned a place,"

What do you see in common? They all added "angels" in parenthesis, how did they know that it should be that way? Because they've studied the exegesis of the Quran, which is what you lack, hence it proves the point i was trying to make in the other thread.

Saving you sorry ass again at last sentence.. What exegesis did they study that is not part of the Arabic word in that verse?

Do you mean anybody can just insert any word to the verse of the quran and claim he had studied the exegesis.

This your lie en

lexiconkabir:


Firstly I'm not an apologist, cuz i don't give a damn of what you think of Islam, islam dont need us, but we need islam, so anyone who feels he doesn't want to believe in Allah is really on the loosing side, that being said,

You are taking this thing personal.

Here is Quran73:9 the Lord of the East and the West; there is no deity except Him, so take Him as Disposer of [your]. affairs

Again you can see clearly there is a problem here but you are deliberately ignoring it. If for example buhari' is in another country where he is not know as the president of Nigeria, and started making statement like: the president (take note-not presidency) will provide you all with Cash. There is no other president of Nigeria except him" tell me kabir, would the listener ever assume that he is indeed the president or assume that the person is representing him?

The latter is just the case. It is clear here that Allah wasn't the one doing the talking here rather someone else,, because how could he swear by another lord and at the same time refer to himself as HIM. He could have simply said: there is no deity except me, so take me as Disposer of [your]. affairs. Very clear. But then because he wasn't the one doing the talking the whole is different.

Here Allah claims to be the lord of the east and the west, and if you are not convinced, you must have heard of "There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah" now compare this saying and that verse i just posted.

He didn't claim to be the lord of the east and west in that verse, he (or anyone doing the talking) only swear by the lord of the east and west.

And dont bring the bible into this..... We arent talking about the Bible.

I'm sorry, I was only trying to use it to clarify my point.

Analysis of Moses encountered with Allah.

I'll insert my word in bracket.

So, when he(Moses) came to it, he(Moses) was called 'Blessed is he who is in the fire, and he who is about it. Glory be to God, the Lord of all Being! Moses, behold, it is I, God, the All-mighty, the All-wise.

From this surah many problems arise:
1) The underlined statement was already indicated that Moses was called by someone.
Then if Moses was called, who called Moses?

2) We see the narrator trying to made us know that another person is now talking which suppose to be Allah inside the burning bush.

3) The person who called Moses firstly praised him/herself with the statement "Blessed is he who is in the fire...."
NOTE: the HE in this phrase suppose to be referring to Allah BUT the question we must ask here is who is talking when the underlined statement "....who is in the fire" already made it clear that it's Allah that is actually in the fire?

4) The narrator still goes on to say "Glory be to GOD" remember after Moses was called by the one who is in the fire who supposedly to be Allah is when the conversation begins.

5) To tell you that this is purely wrong linguistic composition the narrator/writer finally identified Allah as the SPEAKER by this statement "Moses, behold it is I, God

Doesn't the same God first says "Blessed is he.......or....Glory be to God"? whose God Blessed or Glory be to?
Could it be Allah who later identified Itself as God again or angel Jibril who is narrating the story?

Definitely it could not be Jibril because MOSES was already called by the one in the fire.

So it is Allah who is praising Itself or another God.

Sample 2 is coming!

Lexiconkabir, demmzy15, Oladim001, udatsi

lexiconkabir:


The angels were the ones speaking here not Allah, Allah is quoting them.

First you said the angels were the one speaking and not Allah, but then you quickly change that by saying Allah was quoting them, you should show you prove that he was quoting them.

lexiconkabir:


Allah refers to himself, he swore by himself since nothing is above him, the Arabs do take swearing very serious, so to make the issue serious he swore by himself.

You are only helping Allah claim this. For example in the Bible, whenever Yahweh wants to swear, he would say, "i swear by myself' and not "I swear by the God of Israel". But in this scenario Allah was swearing by the lord of the east and west which makes it clear that he wasn't swearing by himself but rather by the lord of the east and west.

This is too clear for any discerning mind, but then Islamic apologists will try to rationalize it.

lexiconkabir:


This has been answered, islamic theology you said? You don't know something as basic as tawheed and here you are talking about Islamic theology, you see why you need to study Arabic?

Unless you want to tell us that Allah is more than one. Allah that supposes to be one entity yet always referring to Itself with plural pronouns.

It's left for you to tell me why Allah always use pronouns like 'I', 'me', Us', 'We', 'Him', 'He' e.t.c when It's not multi personal

Oladim001:
If you are conversant with the arabic text of the Qur'an, you would see the stop mark after 'mifassala'. This means that in the beginning of the verse, Allah tells the Prophet to say. So after the stop mark. Allah continues what He was saying. This means that Allah instructed the Prophet to ask the kaafirun the first question. Then after the stop mark, Allah continues. In essence the 'I' is Muhammad PBUH. The God is Allah. The 'HE' is Allah. The 'We' also refers to Allah. The 'thy Lord is Allah, also.

... and those whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from thy Lord with the truth; so be not thou of the doubters. S. 6:114

The 'we' cannot possibly be referring to Allah because he is one, unless you want to deny this. And then please don't bring the royal "we" argument because I can't seem to find it in the Islamic theology.

truthman2012:


You have become what you become because you are seeking for the letters and not the Spirit of the Bible. The Bible says letter killeth but the Spirit gives life (2 Cor.3:6). The same Bible atheists read is what many , whose hearts seek God in spirit and truth read and become children of God. There are numerous testimonies of even muslims who read the Bible and became born again. If the Bible is what you read and become an atheist, it shows you are not a child of salvation but if God will have mercy on you, you will retrace your steps.

Save this for another day.

Demmzy15:
Stop all this, bring whatever you have. This is low self-esteem, you've not discussed anything meaningful and you're already portraying yourself as a "victor". Lemme ask you, are you an atheist?

Who did Allah hymn praises to?
Lo! verily, ye and that which ye worship, Ye cannot excite (anyone) against Him. Save him who is to burn in hell. There is not one of US but hath his known position. Lo! We, even We are they who set the ranks, Lo! WE, even WE are they who hymn His praise S. 37:161-166 Pickthall

Allah is supposed to speaking here as he shifts from first person plural to third person singular pronouns. But this is where the confusion sets in. He knows his position, sets the ranks, and is the one who hymns the praises of God! Who tells Allah what his position is and to whom is singing?

Lexiconkabir

lexiconkabir:



We have cases where Allah quotes people of the past, where he asked Muhammad to say, where He asked Jibril to say, where he tells us what the angels said sometime ago, and so on......but these doesnt mean they are the words of Jibril or Muhammad, because Allah taught them and commanded them on what to say.

What, is every man of them eager to be admitted to a Garden of Bliss? Not so; for We have created them of what they know. No! I swear by the Lord of the Easts and Wests, surely We are able to substitute a better than they; We shall not be outstripped. S. 70:38-41.

Allah swears by the Lord of the easts and wests, says that he will seek no other judge besides God and that he gave the book that Muhammad’s Lord sent down!

Who was doing the talking here? If it was allah? Who was he swearing to? And who are those that constitutes that 'WE'?

Oladim001:
Oh come on. Its neither Muhammad nor Angel Gabriel's word. Its Allah SWT word sent to prophet Muhammad(SAW) through angel Gabriel to guide the whole world.

Then who was speaking here? Allah?

What, shall I seek after any judge but God? For it is He who sent down to you the Book well-distinguished; and those whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from thy Lord with the truth; so be not thou of the doubters. S. 6:114

jcross19:
is thinking with his anus!!!. You get it bro. Is either is deceiving himself or is deceiving the muslims . If he likes let him become suicide bomber, mujahedeen, atheist, satanist or budhist that's his life. Okay do whatever he likes.

You are obviously pained, you wouldn't have come out to say this rubbish had it been you were not.

Carry your pained ass comot my thread.

truthman2012:


You are either deceiving yourself or deceiving the muslims, one is sure. I gave you what you need if truly you are seeking the truth but see what trash you are spewing out. You claim you want to know if truly there is no COMPULSION in islam and I gave you what muslims will hide from you.

I said I will come back to it, we cannot possibly waste a whole 2days on a question when I have lots of questions in my mind.

Maybe I wouldn't have become what I became today had it been you are this swift at responding to atheist criticism of the Bible.

Please sit down and watch.

Demmzy15:
Did he tell you that? The guy was a Christian before he apostazied on this forum, instead of you to be ashamed you're opening your brown teeth!

Christians will liken you to be an unbeliever that to be a Muslim. Same thing with Muslims.

Don't pay him an attentio, this thread was not meant for that

Demmzy15:
Stop all this, bring whatever you have. This is low self-esteem, you've not discussed anything meaningful and you're already portraying yourself as a "victor". Lemme ask you, are you an atheist?

I think I play too much. Alright, I have stopped. I'm getting serious right away. But then I asked a question which you haven't answered, you can scroll up and answer it.

I am not an atheist.

truthman2012:


No compulsion in islam you said? Stop deceiving yourself boy.

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

No, this is what I don't like. The thread is solely for me, kabiru, and his Muslim counterpart. Don't come and disturb us with your bigotry, when actually bullshit like this are very well in your Bible.

You can do well going to other thread opened by atheist and refute their argument or simply sit down here and look while I throw my question

Kabir, like I said earlier, please don't pay attention to people like this

annunaki2:
Let me spread my mat here.

Do you know other Islamist that are stronger that kabiru, cuz I doubt kabiru' can withstand what I have for him.

lexiconkabir:


After sunset, i got an exam to write by 3pm.

Ok

Amberon:
The thread will not be complete without letting the O.P know that Mohammad was a pedophile and homosexual who raped 9 year old Aisha and sucked the dick of a 10 year old boy.

We are still coming to this. It's a gradual process.

But I will like you to sit down and watch.

RealLordZeus:

Nothing like such but if you have any evidence, come out with it

This is a question that interest me the most and since it is evident that you don't know much about the koran, I will advise you allow other strong Islamist of Nairaland come and answer it.

I will await Lexiconkabir and other Muslims to answer it. That question is stronger than you think.

RealLordZeus:

I could have ignore you based on your last sentence but I won't because I want to know your position you are arguing from, are you debating as a free thinker or as a Christian

I will regard myself as a free thinker.

@ the above verse, did you read the context of the verse before quoting randomly, but I trust lexiconkabir to make that clearer to you

Youat first said only Allah is expected to deal with unbelievers which is contrary to what the verse was about, now you are changing your opinion.

lexiconkabir:

This has been takem care of, go to this thread.
https://www.nairaland.com/2538115/examining-quran-9-29-islam
Capital punishment exists, why are people fixated on that of islam? Islam and the state aint separable, treason equals apostacy.
Common be rational, execution is not peculiar to islam, islam unlike christianity is not separable from the state, so islam is guided by rules, if you are not satisfied with it, then dont come in the frst place.
This is why i hate debating.
This also has been taken care of
https://www.nairaland.com/2577484/quran-9-5-sword-verse
Are u now cleared?
I am yet to see any, as you can see no compulsion means, you won't be forced to accept.

Referring to other sources is something I wouldn't like in this debate. I will like us discuss here without referring anyone to somewhere else.

In other not to waste much time on this particular question, for we will certainly come bavk to it. lets take another one.

Can you please address my second question about the quran?

We continue tomorrow.

Amberon:
The thread will not be complete without letting the O.P know that Mohammad was a pedophile and homosexual who raped 9 year old Aisha and sucked the dick of a 10 year old boy.

Amberon:
The thread will not be complete without letting the O.P know that Mohammad was a pedophile and homosexual who raped 9 year old Aisha and sucked the dick of a 10 year old boy.

Sharapp goat, you are not wanted here.

While Lexiconkabir will be away tomorrow, please, I will like to ask other Muslims a simple question that has been bothering my mind about the Koran

Does Muhammad or Angel Gabriel word appear in the Qur'an?

lexiconkabir:


I hope we keep this civil, i only said that because i know Christians will soon come here to derail the thread.... Therefore making it useless.

You should ignore their mentions and face me alone.

RealLordZeus:

Firstly, The name is Muslim not muhammedan, as per your question, in the first ayah, it was stated clearly that there is no Compulsion in religion which holds. The punishments mention in the second verse were not of this world and not to be prescribed by anybody except Allah SWT. I think that Should be clear enough. @lexiconkabir. I am sorry but I cant just miss the opportunity to pass the good message

9Verse 5:

Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V. 2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(Mohsin Khan)


Better open your eyes if you can't see clearly

lexiconkabir:


No compulsion in religion means, you wont be forced to accept islam,

If this is actually true, then, what does this same verse in this sir ah mean 9V29:
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
(Mohsin Khan)

We have other verses inspiring death for those who don't believe in Allah. I will show you more if you want to see.

Fighting those who don't believe in what Muslims believe is tantamount to compelling them to believe. What do you have to say here?

but once you are in Islam, you gotta be real,

What if one later found out that Islam is not real and decided to leave? You would kill him? This is compulsion if you ask me. Have you ever ask yourself if it's the same way in other religion? Would we have had people converting to islam, what would have been the case?

the law of apostacy was put in place, when the Jews of mecca were making mockery of thr religion, by becoming Muslims today and becoming apostates the next.

So Allah toldl Muhammed to start killing them for that reason?

Obviously, this verse refers to the disbelievers in islam, that tried to fight against Muhammad in battle even after signing peace treaty, look at the next verse that follows so you can see what happens to those that did not fight against him.

Lies

"Exempted are those with whom you made [size=18pt]a treaty among the polytheists[and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; [u] so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]."

Apparently, you are not underlings where you ought to underline. The underlined is the real deal here, why sign a treaty that has a fixed period of when you would later killed them? This was made known in the verse that follows. 9Verse 5:

Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V. 2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(Mohsin Khan)

So its obvious that the people in verse 3 were rebellious, there were not promised punishment just because they disbelieve.

If you not cleared let me know.

As you can see, there is no contradiction there......

Look wella

lexiconkabir:
It should be noted that no one should comment apart from the OP and I, i hope you guys respect that...

Absolute rubbish, you have no right to say that.

If you run away now, who will stay with me?

Other Muhammedan are allowed jRe

lexiconkabir:
^^ I said i will be available tomorrow not today, anyway just bring one, tomorrow i will address others insha Allah.

Okay then: I will start with some obvious contradictions before asking my questions.


There or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

"Let there be no compulsion in religion Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).

And Allah later went on to say:

"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,--that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3)

And then I saw you on one thread that made fp the other day where you were vigorously campaigning for death for apostasy, does this and the 2nd verse above contradict the first verse above?

Which are we to believe?