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| Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by truthman2013: 8:27pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
“ Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. – Qur’an 9:29 Anti-Muslim bigots happen to always come across this verse, and show it to people who know little about Islam. They give the impression that Islam sanctions the killing of Jews and Christians at all times. It is important to always get info from the most authentic sources i.e., by reading and collecting information from Muslims, rather than Islamophobes, since their job is to bash Islam and Muslims. For example, would someone go to a Nazi to learn about Judaism – or would you do so to a better source such as a Jew who practices their religion on a daily basis? The answer would be obvious, is that you would learn from a Jewish person about Judaism. Upon commenting on this particular verse, one of the staunchest critics of Islam, Reverend E.M. Wherry, writes: Vers. 29-128 refer to the events connected with the expedition to Tabuq, which occurred in Rajab of A.H. 9 . They were not, however, all enunciated at one time, but partly before the expedition, partly on the march, and partly after the return. Vers. 29-35 may be referred to the time of arrival at Tabuq, when the Christian prince, John of Aylah, tendered his submission to Muhammad, paying tribute (Jazya). - A comprehensive commentary on the Quran – By Reverend E. M. Wherry volume 2 page 274 When reading this passage in its historical context, it is clear that it was sent down by God to Prophet Muhammad (p) to fight against the Byzantine (Roman) empire, who mobilised troops in order to attack the Muslims. In one of our authentic early Islamic sources, ‘Sahih Muslim’, it says: He (Hadrat ‘Umar further) said: I had a companion from the Ansar and, we used to remain in the company of the Messenger turn by turn. He remained there for a day while I remained there on the other day, and he brought me the news about the revelation and other (matter), and I brought him (the news) like this. And we discussed that the Ghassanids were shoeing the horses in order to attack us. Id y companion once attended (the Apostle). And then came to me at night and knocked at my door and called me, and I came out to him, and he said: A matter of great importance has happened. I said: What is that? Have the Ghassanids come ? He said: No, but even more serious and more significant than that: the Prophet has divorced his wives. Sahih Muslim Book 9, Hadith 3511 http://sunnah.com/muslim/18/44 From the above narration, there is clear evidence that the Muslims were informed of an impending invasion by the Ghassanids, who were part of the Byzantine Empire.Additionally, Ibn Sa’d in his book Kitab al-tabaqat al-kabir writes: “They (narrators) saud: It (report) reached the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, that the Romans had concentrated large forces in Syria, that Heraclius had disbursed one year’s salary to his soldiers, and that tribes of Lakhm, Judham, ‘Amilah and Ghassan had joined hands with him. They had sent their vanguards to al-Balqa. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, summoned the people to march. He set out and informed them about the place which he intended, so that they could make necessary preparations. He sent (messengers) to Makkah and to the tribes of Arabia (asking them) to send help. This took place in the days of intense heat.” Ibn Sa’d’s Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, Translated by S. Moinul Haq (New Delhi: Kitab Bhavan, 2009) Volume 2, page 203-204 Again, we see clear evidence that it was the Byzantine (Roman) empire who started this war. What does one expect the Messenger Muhammad (p) to do? Sit back and do nothing while Muslim lives were going to get slaughtered? Of course, he had done the right thing, assembling the Muslim community to go out and fight against these aggressors. In another early Islamic source, Kitab Futuh Al-Buldan, written by the eminent 9th Century Imam, Aḥmad Ibn Yaḥyā al-Balādhurī, the author says: “Tabuk make terms. When in the year 9 AH the Prophet marched to Tabuk in Syria for the invasion of those of the Greeks, Amilah, Lakhm, Judham and others whom he learnt had assembled against him, he met no resistance. So he spent a few days in Tabuk, whose inhabitants made terms with him agreeing to pay poll-tax.” The origins of the Islamic State, being a translation from the Arabic accompanied with annotations Geographic and historic notes of the Kitab Futuh Al-Buldan of al-Imam Abu’l Abbas Ahmad Ibn Jabir Al Baladhuri, By Phillip Khurti Hitti, PHD, [1916], volume 1, page 92 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by truthman2013: 8:29pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
So far, as we have read early Islamic sources, when one reads the passage (9:29) in its historical perspective, it is a fact that the Byzantines (Romans) were the ones who intended to wage war with the Muslims. Saifur Rahman al-Mubarakpuri in his work of Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum (The Sealed Nectar) writes: The invasion and the conquest of Makkah was considered a decisive one between the truth and the error. As a result of which, the Arabs had no more doubt in Muhammad’s mission. Thus we see that things went contrary to the pagans’ expectations. People started to embrace Islam, the religion of Allah in great numbers. This is manifested clearly in the chapter. The delegations, of this book. It can also be deduced out of the enormous number of people who shared in the Hajjatul-Wad⦣145; (Farewell Pilgrimage). All domestic troubles came to an end. Muslims, eventually felt at ease and started setting up the teachings of All Laws and intensifying the Call to Islam. From that historical point, Quran 9:29 was a war of self-defence. If the Muslims had not done nothing and sat back, the Muslim community as a whole would have been wiped off in Arabia, by the Byzantine (Romans) and other enemies. Dr. Mustafa As-Sibaa’ie, ‘The life of Prophet Muhammad highlights and lessons’ writes, The Battle of Tabook Scholar Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi What was the genesis of this expedition? It is related that the Apostle got reports of Byzantine forces converging in the northern frontiers of Arabia with the intention of mounting an attack on the Muslims . Ibn Sa’ad and Waqidi had reported that the Apostle was informed by the Nabataeans that Heraclius was intending to come upon him and that his advance party had already reached Balqa. This was after storing on year’s provision for his army and drafting the pro-Byzantine tribes of Lakhm, Jodham, Amla and Ghassan under his banner. Muhammad Rasulullah The Apostle of Mercy By S. Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi, page 320 Professor John Andrew Morrow ….. the early Muslims had to fend of all sorts of aggressive assaults of the unbelievers from the Quraysh and their allies among the bedioun and Jewish tribes , in such well-known Battles as those of Uhud, Al-Khandaq, Mu’tah and TabukSource truthman.. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by truthman2013: 8:32pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
I hope our anti-muslim bigot (nairaland chapter) won't bring this up again. Truthman.. 2 Likes |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by maajin007(m): 9:04pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
May Almighty Allah reward you abundantly. 3 Likes |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by truthman2013: 9:22pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
maajin007: Ameen.. May HE reward us all abundantly. truthman.. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 9:26pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
The op is a liar (fake truthman) Surah 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, EVEN IF THEY ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK , until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (Yusuf Ali) According to the lie being told by the op , he say the command was to fight against the Byzantine (Roman) empire. okay!! who are "THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK " know doubt the people of the book are the Jews and christians. The verse say, “fight those who believe not in Allah.” those who believe not in Allah are the Jews and christians including the Roman, but the op interpretation is very very wrong , are the Roman not christians? He interprete is as if the Roman are not christians, confused op. It also commands Muslims to" fight all those who do not hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden for Allah and his Messenger.” This means that if you do not forbid for yourselves the things which Allah forbids, muslims has the right to fight and killed you. And the verse say , if you do not aknowleged islam as the "RELIGION OF TRUTH" muslims has the right to fight you. To be continue... 2 Likes |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by truthman2013: 9:35pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
[s] malvisguy212:[/s] Here is what a critic of Islam that is not an illiterate like you said: Vers. 29-128 refer to the events connected with the expedition to Tabuq, which occurred in Rajab of A.H. 9 . They were not, however, all enunciated at one time, but partly before the expedition, partly on the march, and partly after the return. Vers. 29-35 may be referred to the time of arrival at Tabuq, when the Christian prince, John of Aylah, tendered his submission to Muhammad, paying tribute (Jazya).A comprehensive commentary on the Quran – By Reverend E. M. Wherry volume 2 page 274. You need to read between lines and stop jumping like a kangaroo. truthmanm. 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 9:43pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
To understand the purposes of this verse, we need to quote from 28 to 29: Surah 9:28-29: O ye who believe! Truly the PAGAN ARE UNCLEAN; SO LET THEM NOT , AFTER tHIS YEAR of theirs, approach the SACRED MOSQUE. AND IF YE FEAR POVERTY , soon will Allah enrich you , if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All- wise. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they PAY THE JIZYA with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. Yes, It is all about money. Muslims were commanded to fight the Jews and Christians “until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Allah’s commandment to fight the Jews and Christians is not because they were attacking or even planning to attack the Muslims but because the Muslims FEARED POVERTY. A new situation developed, resulting in the sudden loss of trade for Muslims. This was because Allah now prohibited the polytheist(PAGAN) from entering the sacred Mosque in Mecca.Well, what was Allah’s solution for the financial reversal of the Muslims? Yes! Attack the Jews and Christians and let them compensate for the loss of trade. This is made clear in Surah 9:28 (the verse preceding Surah 9:29). The Tafsir by Ibn Kathir clarifies the Historical Context for Allah’s purpose in revealing Surah 9:28-29. Ibn Kathir, The Battles of the Prophet, pp. 183-4: Allah, Most High, ordered the believers to prohibit the disbelievers from entering or coming near the sacred Mosque. On that, Quraish thought that this would reduce their profits from trade. Therefore, Allah, Most High, compensated them and ordered them to fight the people of the Book until they embrace Islam or pay the Jizyah. Allah says, “O ye who believe! Truly the pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All- Knowing, All-Wise. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” (Surah 9:28-29) Therefore, the Messenger of Allah decided to fight the Romans in order to call them to Islam. “Therefore, the Messenger of Allah decided to fight the Romans .” The Romans were Christians. “The Messenger of Allah decided to fight the Romans” not because the Romans were attacking or planning to attack the Muslims but because of Allah’s command in Surah 9:29. It was a unilateral attack by the Muslims because of Allah’s solution for their impending poverty. Should any Christian convert to Islam out of fear, then he will have to now pay Zakat like the rest of the Muslims. Should he refuse to convert, then he has to pay a hefty sum of his wealth as compensation for his life. And this is not a one-off thing. The monetary compensation has to be paid on a regular basis as long as he is under the Muslim yoke. This form of protection money that Allah shamelessly extorts from Christians is known as Jizya. Any Christian who fails to pay will be put to death. It is win, win situation for Islam. Allah knew that most Christians would rather pay the Jizya tax than convert to Islam. Thus, like a common gangster, Allah promised to enrich the Muslims through extortion. Allah is an extortioner. 1 Like |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 9:46pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
truthman2013:shut up! You say the battle was not against christians or the Jew but against the Romans. Are the Romans not christians ? Who are the people of the book ? Are they not Jews ? Or did Allah gave the Romans another book ?(as usual) |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 9:56pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
Read more here.
https://www.nairaland.com/2130984/jizya-taxa-robbery Provided below are more Sword Verses from the quran: Surah 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them. (Shakir) Surah 2: 193: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah. (Shakir) Surah 3:151: We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve , because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust. (Shakir) Surah 7:4: How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them . (Pickthall) Surah 8:12: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them . (Shakir) Surah 8:60: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies , of Allah and your enemies. (Yusuf Ali) Surah 8:65: O Prophet! Rouse the Believers to the fight . If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding. (Yusuf Ali) Surah 9:5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them , and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Shakir) Surah 9:14: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace , and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.” (Shakir) Surah 9:73: O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, – an evil refuge indeed. (Yusuf Ali) Surah 9:111: Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. (Pickthall) Surah 9:123: O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness . (Shakir) 1 Like |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by truthman2013: 10:06pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Lol, when did I say the battle was not against christians and Jews? truthman.. 2 Likes |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 10:17pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
truthman2013:okay good. Surah 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day.... Dose this look like defensive war ? And the verse went on an encourage muslims to fight those who do not hold what Allah had hold forbidden, muslims has the right to fight them intil they pay the jizya tax. |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by truthman2013: 10:18pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
malvisguy212:I'll still address all these in my upcoming threads. Watch out. truthman. 2 Likes |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by truthman2013: 10:31pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
malvisguy212: You won't just stop deluding yourself. First you admit that it was a battle between against christians and Jews who waged war again the muslims of that time. Very good on your part. At least this thread has been justified. Now, the context of the Surah is talking about 2 predicament the muslims faced at that time. First, the PAGAN and then the ROMAN EMPIRE. Again as the literate critic of Islam unlike you madr us under in his book quoted out the verse in talk " Vers. 29-128 refer to the events connected with the expedition to Tabuq, which occurred in Rajab of A.H. 9 . They were not, however, all enunciated at one time, but partly before the expedition, partly on the march, and partly after the return. Vers. 29-35 may be referred to the time of arrival at Tabuq, when the Christian prince, John of Aylah, tendered his submission to Muhammad, paying tribute (Jazya)." Reverend E. M. Wherry volume 2 page 274. The Treaty PAGAN broke are refered to in the preceeding verses and in some later verse. Open your eyes please. truthman.. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by onetrack(m): 10:36pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
Muhammad in a hadith says that god commanded him to go and fight until the world accepts Islam. This hadith is found in both Bukhari and Muslim. This outranks any commentary from any scholar. 2 Likes |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by Demmzy15(m): 11:35pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
onetrack:"Riyadh us Saliheen" of Imam An Nawawi(Rahimahullah) in the 13th Century explained what this hadith meant and how Muslims interpreted it, the hadith in question is this; Ibn `Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) reported: The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said, “I have been commanded to fight against the people till they testify La ilaha illAllah (There is no true god except Allah) and that Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) is His slave and Messenger, and to establish As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and to pay Zakat; and if they do this, then their blood and property are secured except by the rights of Islam, and their accountability is left to Allah.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]. Commentary Of Imam An Nawawi(Rahimahullah): [size=15pt]"[/size]This Hadith has already appeared before. Here the word “An-Nas” translated `the people’ in the Hadith stands for those who associate others with Allah in worship. The people of the Book are not included among them. “Haqqul-Islam” translated here as “the rights of Islam” denotes legal castigation, etc. That is, the punishments which are given for crimes like fornication, murder, etc. “Their accountability is left to Allah” means what is hidden in their hearts is left to Allah or the crimes which go undetected by the authorities concerned are in the Purview of Allah, Who will decide their case in the Hereafter.[size=15pt]"[/size] From all indications he(sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) was referring to the pagans of Mecca before he(sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) conquered them and they were asked to accept Islam. Even when Prophet Muhammad dispatched emissaries to lands of Non-Muslims, here's is the manner he told them(emissaries) to act: Mu`adh (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) sent me as a governor to Yemen and (at the time of departure) he instructed me thus: “You will go to people of the Scripture (i.e., the Jews and the Christians). First of all invite them to testify that La ilaha ill Allah (There is no true god except Allah) and that Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) is His slave and Messenger; and if they accept this, then tell them that Allah has enjoined upon them five Salat (prayers) during the day and night; and if they accept it, then tell them that Allah has made the payment of Zakat obligatory upon them. It should be collected from their rich and distributed among their poor; and if they agree to it, don’t take (as a share of Zakat) the best of their properties. Beware of the supplications of the oppressed, for there is no barrier between it and Allah.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by plainbibletruth: 11:39pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
It's amazing how it takes so much stories from OUTSIDE the Quran to explain just a simple portion of the Quran! It shows the extent to which some of these Muslims guys will go to try and give any meaning to any portion of the Quran. truthman2013 (or is it lieman2013) would want us to believe that the verse in question "was sent down by God to Prophet Muhammad (p) to fight against the Byzantine (Roman) empire, who mobilised troops in order to attack the Muslims." And to justify this truthman2013 (lieman2013?) resorts to: - so-called 'authentic early Islamic sources' - other writings that align somewhat with his aim; interpreting that portion of the Quran the way he wants. Even when the references had a lot of suppositions the 'lieman' would want us to accept them as truth. Relevant issues: 1. Now, if all that truthman2013 (lieman 2013?) claims were so, why didn't Allah simply say so? 2. Why did it have to take SUBSEQUENT writings to explain what Allah was saying in that portion of the Quran? 3. Were these writers 'inspired' in addition to Mohammed or can we also regard them as 'prophets' sent by Allah to 'fill up' what Mohammed didn't include in the Quran? 4. If like truthman2013 says: "Quran 9:29 was a war of self-defence." why did the Quran not simply say "when they fight you, fight back", even if specific names were not mentioned? After all, self-defense means an act of defending oneself. BUT what does the verse say? Let's see it again: “ Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth .........." It says "Fight those who do not believe..." It did not say: "Fight back (in self-defense) those who attack (in the sense of initiating a fight against) you. It did not say: "Fight those who are about to invade you or Fight those who are planning an attack against you" There's no inkling of self-defense here in this verse; none! So all can see that truthman2013 is actually trying to play a smart one on as many as may be gullible. He is trying to sell us a lie. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by Demmzy15(m): 12:07am On Aug 20, 2015 |
plainbibletruth: We as Muslims know why this verses were revealed, but since you guys have low IQ, we explain better so as you can understand. Even your Bible has commentaries so why can't the Qur'an? It shows the extent to which some of these Muslims guys will go to try and give any meaning to any portion of the Quran. Whatever Truthman2013 put up there is the way early Muslims acted upon them. The first three generations(Salaf us Saliheen) did what truthman put up there. So any problem?  [s]truthman2013 (or is it lieman2013) would want us to believe that the verse in question Instead of spewing venomous thrashy nonsensical flathe'ad garbage, you can be helpful by refuting the posts. If you can't, simply "Shut Da Hell Up"  And to justify this truthman2013 (lieman2013?) resorts to: Since you refused to understand after years of explaining, do you want him to go to Craig Winn, Sam Shamoun, Matt Slick and other "answering-islam.org" Islamophobic featherheads?  Even when the references had a lot of suppositions the 'lieman' would want us to accept them as truth. Mr. Man no one is forcing you to accept, if you like accept, if you like don't. That's your cup of fura! Relevant issues: His Prophet understood him and acted upon it as truthman clearly stated. So what else do you want? 2. Why did it have to take SUBSEQUENT writings to explain what Allah was saying in that portion of the Quran? Same answer as above! 3. Were these writers 'inspired' in addition to Mohammed or can we also regard them as 'prophets' sent by Allah to 'fill up' what Mohammed didn't include in the Quran? Must everything be about inspiration? That's how you Christians emphasized on this issue until you were busted plagiarizing from pagans. No wonder the Holy Spirit, the author of confusion inspires contradictory stories. Anyway, the scholars got their stuffs from hadeeth, Sirah, etc which were written by early Muslims who had contacts with Prophet Muhammad and his companions. 4. If like truthman2013 says: You're just making fool of ya self her. Everything is clearly explained, I bet you didn't read the article. BUT what does the verse say? Ogbeni?! Cant you read? Everything is explained for you! So all can see that truthman2013 is actually trying to play a smart one on as many as may be gullible. You're the gullible one here, you can't read and that's a great problem. Indeed ignorance kills faster than AIDS, all you said is BS. Nevertheless, the pagan origins of the bible is still hanging?! 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by plainbibletruth: 12:27am On Aug 20, 2015 |
[size=5pt] Demmzy15:[/size]  . |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by Demmzy15(m): 12:34am On Aug 20, 2015 |
plainbibletruth:*Touches his neck to check his temperature* Hot!!!!!   Guy you no well! 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 7:25am On Aug 20, 2015 |
truthman2013:fight does who believe not in Allah is a self defence command ? The verse say fight those who do not hold that which is forbidden by Allah, this does not look like self defence was. It is all about money. The Tafsir by Ibn Kathir clarifies the Historical Context for Allah’s purpose in revealing Surah 9:28-29. Ibn Kathir, The Battles of the Prophet, pp. 183-4: Allah, Most High, ordered the believers to prohibit the disbelievers from entering or coming near the sacred Mosque. On that, Quraish thought that this would REDUCE THEIR PROFITS FROM TRADE. Therefore, Allah, Most High, COMPENSATE THEM and ordered them to fight the people of the Book until they embrace Islam or PAY THE JIZYAH .... Verse 28 say: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs,approach the Sacred Mosque. AND IF YE FEAR POVERTY , SOON WILL Allah ENRICH YOU , if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All- wise. And how does Allah enrich them ? By paying the jizya tax. but here you say the jizya was a tribute to muhammed meaning Allah failed to enriched the muslims ?today the Isis are doing this in Iraq and Syria. All the none muslims must pay tax just to enrich the muslims. |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by proo212(m): 8:00am On Aug 20, 2015 |
From Tafsir Al-Jalalayn
Suprisingly Al-Jalalayn agrees with Ibn Kathir....Hehehe, the Bible says let every matter be established by 2 or 3 witnesses Deut 19:15. Some people are obviously trying to be economical with the truth Quote from Demmzy15 Mr. Man no one is forcing you to accept, if you like accept, if you like don't. That's your cup of fura! Why should I accept obvious dissimulation when its a matter of life and death or subjugation like we see happening to the Copts, Assyrians and the Syriac and other Christians in Muslim majority countries? Just to emphasize the point... Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 9:01am On Aug 20, 2015 |
proo212:thank you bros. I love the way you present the evidence. |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by Demmzy15(m): 10:31am On Aug 20, 2015 |
proo212: When this verse was revealed was it not because Muslims were at war with the Byzantine Empire as truthman clearly explained? Tafsir Jalalayn clearly explains how this verse is to be carried out! Some people are obviously trying to be economical with the truth You're the one who's economical with the truth here. Quote from Demmzy15 Yes and I meant every word I said there, if you like accept, if you like don't, that's your cup of "fura" Why should I accept obvious dissimulation when its a matter of life and death or subjugation like we see happening to the Copts, Assyrians and the Syriac and other Christians in Muslim majority countries? Even though the Copts were persecuted under the Byzantine Empire I know that doesn't matter to you. Muslims were not at war with the Copts or Assyrians but with the Byzantine Empire who wanted to wipe Islam. This lands were controlled by the Byzantines and therefore overran by Muslims. What you should know is that; Muslims never forced them to accept to Islam but they did willingly. If I may ask, what's happening to Christians in Egypt(Copts), Palestine(Assyrians and Catholic), Iraq, Lebanon as you try and emphasis in your post?! Just to emphasize the point... I explained this point from Riyadh us Saliheen of Imam An Nawawi(Rahimahullah):[size=15pt]"[/size]This Hadith has already appeared before. Here the word “An-Nas” translated `the people’ in the Hadith stands for those who associate others with Allah in worship. The people of the Book(Jews and Christians) are not included among them. “Haqqul-Islam” translated here as “the rights of Islam” denotes legal castigation, etc. That is, the punishments which are given for crimes like fornication, murder, etc. “Their accountability is left to Allah” means what is hidden in their hearts is left to Allah or the crimes which go undetected by the authorities concerned are in the Purview of Allah, Who will decide their case in the Hereafter.[size=15pt]"[/size] 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by Demmzy15(m): 11:09am On Aug 20, 2015 |
proo212 you speak of Tafsir Ibn Kathir as if it supports you, here's what it states: Allah commands His believing servants, who are pure in religion and person, to expel the idolators who are filthy in the religious sense, from Al-Masjid Al-Haram. After the revelation of this Ayah, idolators were no longer allowed to go near the Masjid. This Ayah was revealed in the ninth year of Hijrah. The Messenger of Allah sent `Ali in the company of Abu Bakr that year to publicize to the idolators that no Mushrik will be allowed to perform Hajj after that year, nor a naked person allowed to perform Tawaf around the House. Allah completed this decree, made it a legislative ruling, as well as, a fact of reality. `Abdur-Razzaq recorded that Jabir bin `Abdullah commented on the Ayah, ﴿إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلاَ يَقْرَبُواْ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَـذَا﴾ (O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikin are impure. So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram after this year) "Unless it was a servant or one of the people of Dhimmah(Non-Muslims living under Muslim rule).'' Imam Abu `Amr Al-Awza'i said, "Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz wrote (to his governors) to prevent Jews and Christians from entering the Masjids of Muslims, and he followed his order with Allah's statement, ﴿إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ﴾ (Verily, the Mushrikin are impure.) `Ata' said, "All of the Sacred Area ﴿the Haram﴾ is considered a Masjid, for Allah said, ﴿فَلاَ يَقْرَبُواْ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَـذَا﴾ (So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram (at Makkah) after this year.)'' This Ayah indicates that idolators are impure and that the believers are pure. In the Sahih is the following, «الْمُؤْمِنُ لَا يَنْجُس» (The believer does not become impure.) Allah said, ﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ﴾ (and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you, out of His bounty.) Muhammad bin Ishaq commented, "The people said, `Our markets will be closed, our commerce disrupted, and what we earned will vanish.' So Allah revealed this verse, ﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ﴾ (and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you, out of His bounty), from other resources, ﴿إِن شَآءَ﴾ (if He wills), until, ﴿وَهُمْ صَـغِرُونَ﴾ (. ..and feel themselves subdued.) This Ayah means, `this will be your compensation for the closed markets that you feared would result.' Therefore, Allah compensated them for the losses they incurred because they severed ties with idolators, by the Jizyah they earned from the People of the Book.'' Similar statements were reported from Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Qatadah and Ad-Dahhak and others. Allah said, ﴿إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ﴾ (Surely, Allah is All-Knowing), in what benefits you, ﴿حَكِيمٌ﴾ (All-Wise), in His orders and prohibitions, for He is All-Perfect in His actions and statements, All-Just in His creations and decisions, Blessed and Hallowed be He. This is why Allah compensated Muslims for their losses by the amount of Jizyah that they took from the people of Dhimmah. Now this is the tafsir of 9:28, the points were explained well by Ibn Kathir(Rahimahullah), now let's see 9:29: Therefore, when People of the Scriptures disbelieved in Muhammad , they had no beneficial faith in any Messenger or what the Messengers brought. Rather, they followed their religions because this conformed with their ideas, lusts and the ways of their forefathers, not because they are Allah's Law and religion. Had they been true believers in their religions, that faith would have directed them to believe in Muhammad , because all Prophets gave the good news of Muhammad's advent and commanded them to obey and follow him. Yet when he was sent, they disbelieved in him, even though he is the mightiest of all Messengers. Therefore, they do not follow the religion of earlier Prophets because these religions came from Allah, but because these suit their desires and lusts. Therefore, their claimed faith in an earlier Prophet will not benefit them because they disbelieved in the master, the mightiest, the last and most perfect of all Prophets . Hence Allah's statement, ﴿قَـتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ﴾ (Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture,) This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to [size=18pt]fight the Romans[/size] and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination. The Messenger sent his intent to various Arab areas around Al-Madinah to gather forces, and he collected an army of thirty thousand. Some people from Al-Madinah and some hypocrites, in and around it, lagged behind, for that year was a year of drought and intense heat. The Messenger of Allah marched, heading towards Ash-Sham to fight the Romans until he reached Tabuk, where he set camp for about twenty days next to its water resources. He then prayed to Allah for a decision and went back to Al-Madinah because it was a hard year and the people were weak, as we will mention, Allah willing. Hope you can see the circumstances in which this verse was revealed, if indeed the war was all about offensive, the Muslims wouldn't have camped. They would have charged into the Byzantine Empire, but rather they waited for them. When the Byzantines didn't show up, the Muslims left in peace. So Mr. Man you're not saying anything new! Cc malvisguy212 this what Tafsir Ibn Kathir states rather than the nonsense you wrote up there. I was wondering, how could a whole tafsir of Ibn Kathir be as short as this nonsense: malvisguy212: 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by INJESUSNAME: 11:12am On Aug 20, 2015 |
Demmzy15: something is wrong with people who can defend anything to protect their religion. By the time a man starts to say highway robbery is right, marrying children is ok, killing non believer..., what else do you expect? 1 Like |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 11:19am On Aug 20, 2015 |
Demmzy15:did you mean to say , the command given in quran 9:29 , the christians and Jews are not included ? 2 Likes |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by Demmzy15(m): 11:24am On Aug 20, 2015 |
malvisguy212:Like I always say, you don't read; what you're presenting is not for 9:29 but for the hadith your friend quote (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24) in which the Prophet Muhammad said "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah...." and I explained that this hadith doesn't refer to Jews and Christians rather idolaters or pagans. I and truthman2013 had already explained what Qur'an 9:28-29 mean! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by Demmzy15(m): 11:26am On Aug 20, 2015 |
INJESUSNAME:Is that the best you got? Better come up with something better nincompoop! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by basilico: 11:36am On Aug 20, 2015 |
And the actual event of a collector of Islamic jizya visiting a Hindu neighborhood was shameful for the kinds of things he engaged in. Qadi Mughith ad-Din told Sultan Ala’ud-Dîn Khaljî: “ If the Jizyah-collector asks a Hindu for silver, the latter should offer gold in all humility. If the collector wishes to spit into his mouth, the latter should open his mouth without demur, so as to enable the former to spit into it .” [from Diyâ’ ad-Dîn Baranî, Tarîkh-i Firozshâhi, Sayyid Athar Abbas Rizwi, selected Hindi tr., in his Khaljî-Kalîna Bhârata, Aligarh, 1955, p. 70] More here on how Muslims are to treat non Muslims. pact of umar. older age Muslims interpreted Islam correctly but tawqiya mongering Muslims here are lying to infidels http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Analysis_of_the_Pact_of_Umar |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 11:40am On Aug 20, 2015 |
The op want to use a single verse to explained the WHOLE CONTEXT . Verse 28 give reason why the war is sanctioned. 1 Like |
| Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by malvisguy212: 11:56am On Aug 20, 2015 |
Demmzy15:okay, let read verse 29 : Fight those who BELIEVE NOT IN ALLAH nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The verse say fight those who believe not in Allah, and the verse went on to encourage the muslims to fight thoes who do not forbid what ALLAH and MUHAMMED had forbidden. Did the christians and Jews believe in muhammed ? Talkless of forbid what he forbid. The above emphatically exhorts Muslims to conquer the following groups of people until they pay a sum of money (Jizya) as a sign of their subjection and humiliation: 1. Atheists/Agnostics (those who believe not in God nor the Last Day). Jews and Christians (people of the Book). 2. Everyone else, whether Hindus/ Magians, Buddhists etc., since these groups do not prohibit what Muhammad forbade nor believe in Islam, the so-called "religion of Truth". |
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