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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxSOHEDbafY

rottennaija:
https://youtu.be/zxS

oh boy!

rottennaija:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxSOHEDbafY

Hello, so I have this elderly JW couple studying with me for some months now, do you think they are a bad idea? If they are what religion do you associate with currently?

needanswer:
Hello, so I have this elderly JW couple studying with me for some months now, do you think they are a bad idea? If they are what religion do you associate with currently?

This is an information age. Before joining any group, research about the group, from members and ex-members. A group that has no hidden skeleton will encourage you to research them. You should also read their old books, especially for a group claiming to be the only truth religion and has God's backing, take particular interest in how explain past errors. Their history and what has been publish will let you know if they really had God's backing.

Take for example, if you had interest purchase a car, a particular model, what would you do? You ask the dealer about it and then would ask those who had driven the car and those who no longer. What were their experiences? What challenges did they face and for those who had abandoned the car, why? You will very likely have a broad view about what you are about to get yourself involved in.

Very likely, a car dealer, a group that does want you to ask questions should have raise your interest. Even more so, a dealer or group that has the list of approved questions and those you cannot ask should even be more concerning...

Nothing is certain in life. What happens if tomorrow you no longer want to be part of the group for any reason? How will they treat you? If you noticed something not right, would you be allow freedom of speech to express your views or you would be swore to silence? In particular, what happens if what the group believes does not agree with what you read from the bible? Would you be expected to be loyal to the group or be loyal to the Bible? And if you choose to be loyal to the Bible, how would you be treated?

These are some things to consider. You will have to carry out serious research and make an informed decision. You know you are accountable to God for the decisions you make. I cannot tell you to go ahead or not, it is a decision you are to make based on research you should make about them.

Let me be very specific... And that's especially why you need to carry out serious research.

As a Christian, the Bible belief is that Jesus mediate for all persons. Ask the elderly folks studying with you if after joining the group, Jesus would still be your mediator or you would be expected to abandon such belief (note. They may be unaware of such and will argue they don't have such belief)

Ask the elderly JWs why the religion forbids blood transfusion that saves life when the Bible forbids eating blood. Ask them why a symbol (blood) should be held more sacred than life (which the symbol represents). Most importantly, ask them where such precedence of sacrificing life for laws exist when throughout the Bible, it is shown that when life is in danger, laws were set aside to save life. ( research on PIKUACH NEFESH)

You make want to take a trip to FAQ on their official website.

jwfaq

Now, compare what they say to the public and what they actually practice internally if it holds up to the truth.

Ask them if in the future, you do not want to continue with them, if they will shun you (note... They will likely infer that one sin or another will be the reason) without any sort sin in your part.

needanswer:
If they are what religion do you associate with currently?

This is a good question... which group should I recommend or which do I associate with.

I can't recommend any, I don't belong to any. People's needs are many and different some are attracted to the level of recognition belonging to some group brings, some to power, to some, it's a feeling of belonging somewhere, anywhere. I don't feel those needs.

As a general rule, for me, the fewer the better. I generally avoid any organised religion, be it small or large. The reason is that when you area member of the organised religion, your attitude, your expressions of affection, how you see others, the black vs white thinking, us vs them mindset is always going to be inculcated in you.

And should you have the misfortune of belonging to a high control, manipulative group, you can be rest assured that your individuality will be replaced by what the group wants (what the group wants will always be polished as what God wants). These are my dissuading factors in relation to the organised religion.

I'm still on my journey, a search. But I am comfortable where I am.

Meanwhile, I'll recommend you read "Crisis of Conscience". It was written by a former member of the Governing Body, it provides an inside view of the organisation, it's structure and doings. "In Search of Christian Freedom" is his second book. You should take a look too.

JWfacts.com is an interesting site you can learn a lot about the group.

rottennaija:
This is a good question... which group should I recommend or which do I associate with.

I can't recommend any, I don't belong to any. People's needs are many and different some are attracted to the level of recognition belonging to some group brings, some to power, to some, it's a feeling of belonging somewhere, anywhere. I don't feel those needs.

As a general rule, for me, the fewer the better. I generally avoid any organised religion, be it small or large. The reason is that when you area member of the organised religion, your attitude, your expressions of affection, how you see others, the black vs white thinking, us vs them mindset is always going to be inculcated in you.

And should you have the misfortune of belonging to a high control, manipulative group, you can be rest assured that your individuality will be replaced by what the group wants (what the group wants will always be polished as what God wants). These are my dissuading factors in relation to the organised religion.

I'm still on my journey, a search. But I am comfortable where I am.

Meanwhile, I'll recommend you read "Crisis of Conscience". It was written by a former member of the Governing Body, it provides an inside view of the organisation, it's structure and doings. "In Search of Christian Freedom" is his second book. You should take a look too.

JWfacts.com is an interesting site you can learn a lot about the group.

I'll look up those books and see the knowledge they contain, but I doubt they will provide me any valuable information on organized religion, like which is the best, if anything like that exist.

I reached out to you mainly because I thought you must have found a better alternative by now. I'll appreciate that if you can, if not what are the alternatives?

I feel personal religion is living in denial, cause when it comes to religion, you are either fully into it or you are not into it at all. Those sitting on the fence should just be atheist and that has its flaws, many of them.

So now I am like this

rottennaija:
This is a good question... which group should I recommend or which do I associate with.

I can't recommend any, I don't belong to any. People's needs are many and different some are attracted to the level of recognition belonging to some group brings, some to power, to some, it's a feeling of belonging somewhere, anywhere. I don't feel those needs.

As a general rule, for me, the fewer the better. I generally avoid any organised religion, be it small or large. The reason is that when you area member of the organised religion, your attitude, your expressions of affection, how you see others, the black vs white thinking, us vs them mindset is always going to be inculcated in you.

And should you have the misfortune of belonging to a high control, manipulative group, you can be rest assured that your individuality will be replaced by what the group wants (what the group wants will always be polished as what God wants). These are my dissuading factors in relation to the organised religion.

I'm still on my journey, a search. But I am comfortable where I am.

Meanwhile, I'll recommend you read "Crisis of Conscience". It was written by a former member of the Governing Body, it provides an inside view of the organisation, it's structure and doings. "In Search of Christian Freedom" is his second book. You should take a look too.

JWfacts.com is an interesting site you can learn a lot about the group.

The summary is they are bad news.

The person I am studying with use to serve in 'Bethel', that's like a special place to them and he is quite knowledgeable on bible affairs and current affairs. I ask alot of questions even irrelevant ones and I'll say he has impressed me. That is what drew me to him, but I am not fully committed to the cause, I dont feel I am ready to change MY LIFESTYLE.

I hardly go to church before they came along, now our bible discussions are like church service to me. I didnt feel the need to associate with a church because I thought I can serve God personally as I like but he pointed an error in my thinking.

He said God since the beginning of creation always had a people set aside for him. He has in heaven and he has on earth. He organized the Jews as his people and separated them from the other people that didnt know him and he has continued in that pattern even now. He says God has an organized people today because he never changes, the same yesterday, today and forever.

So with that I saw the error of my thinking that I can serve God just on my own. So now I dont see organized religion as bad but rather I now know I must fit in to be a part of an organized religion. He also explained that part too.

The fitting has to do with meeting certain requirements expected of a Christian, the repentance and turning around part and maintaining it. He showed me that the love of God means I must from the heart obey his requirements and not just by lip service. As I speak currently I am yet to meet up with half of the requirements but I attend the meetings online as often as possible.

needanswer:
Hello, so I have this elderly JW couple studying with me for some months now, do you think they are a bad idea? If they are what religion do you associate with currently?

Why the question when the thread didn't say anybody is bad?

Emusan:
Why the question when the thread didn't say anybody is bad?

His previous thread highlights that, I am only on a fact checking mission, to hear both sides of the story without bias and draw my personal conclusion.

rottennaija:
This is an information age. Before joining any group, research about the group, from members and ex-members. A group that has no hidden skeleton will encourage you to research them. You should also read their old books, especially for a group claiming to be the only truth religion and has God's backing, take particular interest in how explain past errors. Their history and what has been publish will let you know if they really had God's backing.

Take for example, if you had interest purchase a car, a particular model, what would you do? You ask the dealer about it and then would ask those who had driven the car and those who no longer. What were their experiences? What challenges did they face and for those who had abandoned the car, why? You will very likely have a broad view about what you are about to get yourself involved in.

Very likely, a car dealer, a group that does want you to ask questions should have raise your interest. Even more so, a dealer or group that has the list of approved questions and those you cannot ask should even be more concerning...

Nothing is certain in life. What happens if tomorrow you no longer want to be part of the group for any reason? How will they treat you? If you noticed something not right, would you be allow freedom of speech to express your views or you would be swore to silence? In particular, what happens if what the group believes does not agree with what you read from the bible? Would you be expected to be loyal to the group or be loyal to the Bible? And if you choose to be loyal to the Bible, how would you be treated?

These are some things to consider. You will have to carry out serious research and make an informed decision. You know you are accountable to God for the decisions you make. I cannot tell you to go ahead or not, it is a decision you are to make based on research you should make about them.

Let me be very specific... And that's especially why you need to carry out serious research.

As a Christian, the Bible belief is that Jesus mediate for all persons. Ask the elderly folks studying with you if after joining the group, Jesus would still be your mediator or you would be expected to abandon such belief (note. They may be unaware of such and will argue they don't have such belief)

Ask the elderly JWs why the religion forbids blood transfusion that saves life when the Bible forbids eating blood. Ask them why a symbol (blood) should be held more sacred than life (which the symbol represents). Most importantly, ask them where such precedence of sacrificing life for laws exist when throughout the Bible, it is shown that when life is in danger, laws were set aside to save life. ( research on PIKUACH NEFESH)

You make want to take a trip to FAQ on their official website.

jwfaq

Now, compare what they say to the public and what they actually practice internally if it holds up to the truth.

Ask them if in the future, you do not want to continue with them, if they will shun you (note... They will likely infer that one sin or another will be the reason) without any sort sin in your part.

I dont quite get that MEDIATE part. Do you mean in prayer, cause if its prayer, they end every prayer with JESUS NAME.

If it is also bible I know they study Jesus life and ministry with me, especially his kingdom message, even the Easter that just past they spoke about jesus and the importance of his sacrifice.

So I dont quite get the mediate part.



The blood part self i am very uncomfortable with it but the logic is sound after going through it myself but I can't quite imagine myself going through it. My faith hasnt reached that level yet.

The bible says that who so ever kills by the SWORD will perish by the SWORD. now its modern day, AK47 can kill multiple people in less than a minute, does killing by the SWORD apply to me killing with an AK47? they are obviously not one and the same but you get the point.

He gave me so many analogies like this and I get it for now, but that is where it ends for me.

needanswer:
His previous thread highlights that, I am only on a fact checking mission, to hear both sides of the story without bias and draw my personal conclusion.

Ok

But based on your previous reply, I don't think you're doing any findings since you said you're already cool with most of the answers the elderly JWs gave you.

Emusan:
Ok

But based on your previous reply, I don't think you're doing any findings since you said you're already cool with most of the answers the elderly JWs gave you.

You are right, I am satisfied. I am not yet a JW, I believe examine if maybe there was something BETTER elsewhere. That part he said he doesnt know which is not helpful.

needanswer:
You are right, I am satisfied. I am not yet a JW, I believe examine if maybe there was something BETTER elsewhere. That part he said he doesnt know which is not helpful.

I don’t normally comment on these sort of threads but I quietly followed to see what the OP could come up with. Unfortunately it was the same old story. The jwfacts website he’s directing you to, is even owned and run by one who doesn’t believe in either God or the Bible.

needanswer:
I dont quite get that MEDIATE part. Do you mean in prayer, cause if its prayer, they end every prayer with JESUS NAME.

If it is also bible I know they study Jesus life and ministry with me, especially his kingdom message, even the Easter that just past they spoke about Jesus and the importance of his sacrifice.

And what was the importance of Jesus Christ's "sacrifice" as explained to you?

needanswer:
So I dont quite get the mediate part.

Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the New Covenant Law/Contract that exists between God and individual man. So, you go to God in the Name of Jesus Christ - the name attached to the New Covenant Contract.

The Old Covenant Law of Moses between God and the people of Israel, for instance, is called the Covenant of YHWH. So those who call on God in the Old Covenant do so by the name YHWH - the name given by God to the Covenant.

needanswer:
The blood part self i am very uncomfortable with it but the logic is sound after going through it myself but I can't quite imagine myself going through it. My faith hasnt reached that level yet.

If God does not forbid a thing, no man, woman or group has a right to forbid it. So if you choose to believe in this, it means your faith belongs in men, and their groups, and not God.
Recall that Jesus Christ is a contract between God and individuals, not a group contract.

needanswer:
The bible says that who so ever kills by the SWORD will perish by the SWORD. now its modern day, AK47 can kill multiple people in less than a minute, does killing by the SWORD apply to me killing with an AK47? they are obviously not one and the same but you get the point.

That law is in the Old Covenant Law of Moses(YHWH). You are not a Jew and so you are not bound to that Law/Contract. Instead, as a gentile, Jesus Christ is the contract available to you through God, and nowhere in the Terms and conditions of the Contract, Jesus Christ, are you told that He who kills by the sword will perish by the Sword.

Each contract defines for those involved(the signees) what sin is and what is right and good and acceptable to God. What is sin in one contract may not be listed as a sin in another contract, and so it becomes very important for you, the signee, to be well aware of the details of the contract that you are in, so you can work towards fulfilling the deal you are a part of and not arbitrarily doing meaningless work. So, basically, you cannot lift conditions from one contract onto another contract - it is against the terms and conditions of each contract. And you certainly cannot include your own ideas either.

Kobojunkiee:
And what was the importance of Jesus Christ's "sacrifice" as explained to you?
Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the New Covenant Law/Contract that exists between God and individual man. So, you go to God in the Name of Jesus Christ - the name attached to the New Covenant Contract.

The Old Covenant Law of Moses between God and the people of Israel, for instance, is called the Covenant of YHWH. So those who call on God in the Old Covenant do so by the name YHWH - the name given by God to the Covenant.
If God does not forbid a thing, no man, woman or group has a right to forbid it. So if you choose to believe in this, it means your faith belongs in men, and their groups, and not God.
Recall that Jesus Christ is a contract between God and individuals, not a group contract.
That law is in the Old Covenant Law of Moses(YHWH). You are not a Jew and so you are not bound to that Law/Contract. Instead, as a gentile, Jesus Christ is the contract available to you through God, and nowhere in the Terms and conditions of the Contract, Jesus Christ, are you told that He who kills by the sword will perish by the Sword.

Each contract defines for those involved(the signees) what sin is and what is right and good and acceptable to God. What is sin in one contract may not be listed as a sin in another contract, and so it becomes very important for you, the signee, to be well aware of the details of the contract that you are in, so you can work towards fulfilling the deal you are a part of and not arbitrarily doing meaningless work. So, basically, you cannot lift conditions from one contract onto another contract - it is against the terms and conditions of each contract. And you certainly cannot include your own ideas either.

Thanks for your comment.

The old covenant is called the LAW COVENANT or MOSAIC LAW and not covenant of YHWH, though YHWH is the source.

The high priest was the mediator in the LAW Covenant.
Jesus as the fulfillment of the law is the mediator as high priest in the new covenant.

Both covenants are from God with different mediators.

God forbid the taking of blood in both new covenant and old covenant, Acts 15:20.

Jesus himself said those who kill by the sword will die by the sword Matt 26:52

Kobojunkiee:
And what was the importance of Jesus Christ's "sacrifice" as explained to you?
Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the New Covenant Law/Contract that exists between God and individual man. So, you go to God in the Name of Jesus Christ - the name attached to the New Covenant Contract.

The Old Covenant Law of Moses between God and the people of Israel, for instance, is called the Covenant of YHWH. So those who call on God in the Old Covenant do so by the name YHWH - the name given by God to the Covenant.
If God does not forbid a thing, no man, woman or group has a right to forbid it. So if you choose to believe in this, it means your faith belongs in men, and their groups, and not God.
Recall that Jesus Christ is a contract between God and individuals, not a group contract.
That law is in the Old Covenant Law of Moses(YHWH). You are not a Jew and so you are not bound to that Law/Contract. Instead, as a gentile, Jesus Christ is the contract available to you through God, and nowhere in the Terms and conditions of the Contract, Jesus Christ, are you told that He who kills by the sword will perish by the Sword.

Each contract defines for those involved(the signees) what sin is and what is right and good and acceptable to God. What is sin in one contract may not be listed as a sin in another contract, and so it becomes very important for you, the signee, to be well aware of the details of the contract that you are in, so you can work towards fulfilling the deal you are a part of and not arbitrarily doing meaningless work. So, basically, you cannot lift conditions from one contract onto another contract - it is against the terms and conditions of each contract. And you certainly cannot include your own ideas either.

In addition, although our faith in jesus is personal the bible encourages those with similar faith to meet together regularly.

Jesus has 12 disciples.

God did not send the holy spirit as tongue of fire on Pentecost until all the apostles and disciples gathered together.

The first church was opened in Antioch for this purpose and the apostles were directing it under holy spirit.

God approved for other churches to open in the bible after antioch. God wants Christian's to fellowship together because iron sharpens iron.

So being part of a group is Christian and has always been.

needanswer:
Thanks for your comment.
The old covenant is called the LAW COVENANT or MOSAIC LAW and not covenant of YHWH, though YHWH is the source.

God is God of Laws and His Laws tend to have a name attached. The Old Covenant Law is called the Law of Moses or Mosaic law because it was given through Moses to the people of Israel. He has many names, but He gave them the name YHWH a the name of their God.

Exodus 3 vs 14-16 (ERV)
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14. Then God said to Moses, “Tell them, ‘I Am Who I Am.’[a] When you go to the Israelites, tell them, ‘I Am’ sent me to you.”
15. And God said, “Tell the Israelites that you were sent by Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. This will always be my name. It is how I want the people to remember me from now on.
16. “Now go and call together the elders of the people. Tell them that Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—appeared to you. Give them this message from me: ‘I have been watching over you and have seen what people in Egypt have done to you.

Similar to the way that Jesus Christ is the one we are called to trust and obey in the New Covenant, YHWH is the one the Israelites is the one the Jews are called to trust and obey in the Old Covenant.

needanswer:
The high priest was the mediator in the LAW Covenant.
Jesus as the fulfillment of the law is the mediator as high priest in the new covenant.

The high priest was not a mediator in the Old Covenant agreement as Jesus Christ is the mediator in the New Covenant. Nothing in the job specification, some of it seen in the passage below, even hints at that.

Leviticus 21 vs 14-16 (ERV)
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10. “The high priest was chosen from among his brothers. The anointing oil was poured on his head. In this way he was chosen for the special job of being high priest. He was chosen to wear the special clothes, so he must not do things to show his sadness in public. He must not let his hair grow wild. He must not tear his clothes.
11. He must not make himself unclean by touching a dead body. He must not go near a dead body, even if it is his own father or mother.
12. The high priest must not leave God’s holy place, because he might become unclean and then make God’s holy place unclean. The anointing oil was poured on the high priest’s head. This separated him from the rest of the people. I am the Lord.

13. “The high priest must marry a woman who is a virgin.
14. He must not marry a woman who has had sexual relations with any man. He must not marry a prostitute, a divorced woman, or a widow. The high priest must marry a virgin from his own people.
15. In this way people will show respect for his children.[c] I, the Lord, have separated the high priest for his special work.”

16. The Lord said to Moses,
17. “Tell Aaron: If any of your descendants have anything wrong with them, they must not carry the special bread to God.
18. Any man who has something wrong with him must not serve as priest and bring sacrifices to me. These men cannot serve as priests: blind men, crippled men, men with bad scars on their faces, men with arms or legs that are too long,
19. men with broken feet or hands,
20. men with bent backs, men who are dwarfs,[d] men who are cross-eyed, men with rashes or bad skin diseases, and men with crushed testicles.
21. “If one of Aaron’s descendants has something wrong with him, he cannot approach the altar to bring gifts to the Lord. And he cannot carry the special bread to God.
22. He is from the family of priests, so he can eat the holy bread. He can also eat the very holy bread.
22. But he cannot go through the curtain into the Most Holy Place and he cannot go near the altar. This is because he has something wrong with him. He must not make my holy places unholy. I am the Lord, and I make these places holy.”

Yes, the high priest had a special job, as did the other priests, and those of the tribe of levi, but it becomes a stretch to suggest that the job was as a mediator between God and the people since God also had His prophets.

By the time of Jesus Christ, Ananias, I believe, was the High Priest and he was far from what one would call a holy or even godly man, yet there were many righteous men in the land at the time, all of them of the Old Covenant belief.

Given that the Priestly system has long been discontinued, Aaron and his descendants long forgotten in the land, does this then mean that the Covenant is over and done with? No, the mediator is eternal and separate from the high priests and the other priests in the system. A Mediator is instead the means by which the people are able to call on or reach God of the Covenant and YHWH is the name of God by which any Jew, even today where the priesthood is no longer in practice, can call on Him.

needanswer:
Both covenants are from God with different mediators.

Yep! Different Laws, different mediators, different Kingdoms but the same God.

needanswer:
God forbid the taking of blood in both new covenant and old covenant, Acts 15:20.

The clue to understanding what the disciples were saying is found in the same context. The disciples made their decision in order to inform the believers of rules they should live by in order not to run afoul of the Jewish Old Covenant laws in the land.
P.S The Old Covenant Law of Moses(YHWH) is an everlasting covenant between God and the people of Israel, so it is very much in place even to this day.

Acts 15 vs 12-23 (ERV)
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12. Then the whole group became quiet. They listened while Paul and Barnabas told about all the miraculous signs and wonders that God had done through them among the non-Jewish people.
13. When they finished speaking, James said, “My brothers, listen to me.
14. Simon Peter has told us how God showed his love for the non-Jewish people. For the first time, God accepted them and made them his people.
15. The words of the prophets agree with this too:
16. ‘I will return after this. I will build David’s house again. It has fallen down. I will build again the parts of his house that have been pulled down. I will make his house new.
17. Then the rest of the world will look for the Lord God— all those of other nations who are my people too. The Lord said this. And he is the one who does all these things.’
18. ‘All this has been known from the beginning of time.’
19. “So I think we should not make things hard for those who have turned to God from among the non-Jewish people.
20. Instead, we should send a letter telling them only the things they should not do:
Don’t eat food that has been given to idols. This makes the food unclean.
Don’t be involved in sexual sin.
Don’t eat meat from animals that have been strangled or any meat that still has the blood in it.
21. They should not do any of these things, because there are still men in every city who teach the Law of Moses. The words of Moses have been read in the synagogue every Sabbath day for many years.”
22. The apostles, the elders, and the whole church wanted to send some men with Paul and Barnabas to Antioch. The group decided to choose some of their own men. They chose Judas (also called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were respected by the believers.
23. The group sent the letter with these men. The letter said:
From the apostles and elders, your brothers,
To all the non-Jewish brothers in the city of Antioch and in the countries of Syria and Cilicia.
Dear Brothers:

The letter they wrote, as a result, was also written to believers living in the land of Canaan at the time.

needanswer:
Jesus himself said those who kill by the sword will die by the sword Matt 26:52

You are right that Jesus Christ said that of swords but the commandment He gave us was instead is that we love our enemies(implying we not even fight back at all).

Matthew 5 vs 38-48 (ERV)
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38. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’[i]
39. But I tell you, don’t fight back against someone who wants to do harm to you. If they hit you on the right cheek, let them hit the other cheek too.
40. If anyone wants to sue you in court and take your shirt, let them have your coat too.
41. If a soldier forces you to walk with him one mile,[j] go with him two.
42. Give to anyone who asks you for something. Don’t refuse to give to anyone who wants to borrow from you.
43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[k] and hate your enemy.’
44. But I tell you, love your enemies. Pray for those who treat you badly.
45. If you do this, you will be children who are truly like your Father in heaven. He lets the sun rise for all people, whether they are good or bad. He sends rain to those who do right and to those who do wrong.
46. If you love only those who love you, why should you get a reward for that? Even the tax collectors do that.
47. And if you are nice only to your friends, you are no better than anyone else. Even the people who don’t know God are nice to their friends.
48. What I am saying is that you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

needanswer:
In addition, although our faith in jesus is personal the bible encourages those with similar faith to meet together regularly. Jesus has 12 disciples.

Jesus Christ did indeed have 12 disciples who were training under Him, but I am afraid I do not find anywhere in the Gospel were Jesus Christ commands them to meet regularly as you suggest. Again, this since, the contract itself is not for groups but for individuals and defines the direct relationship between them and God Himself, not others

needanswer:
God did not send the holy spirit as tongue of fire on Pentecost until all the apostles and disciples gathered together.
The first church was opened in Antioch for this purpose and the apostles were directing it under holy spirit.

Interesting! Are you implying from this that the Holy Spirit will only come upon those who are gathered together with others, but never on individuals in isolation of others?

needanswer:
God approved for other churches to open in the bible after antioch. God wants Christian's to fellowship together because iron sharpens iron.

How did God give the approval for the "opening" of this church in and after Antioch?
And how do you come to the belief that "Iron sharpeneth Iron" implies that God wants men to sharpen each other up in His New Covenant?

needanswer:
So being part of a group is Christian and has always been.

The only group specified in the terms and conditions of the contract is Jesus Christ's Church, not the church in Antioch or anywhere else. And according to Jesus Christ, His group consists of all of His followers, regardless of their geographical location, and Jesus Christ knows then and He alone gathers them since they all have Him living inside of them, no matter where they are located.

Your churches however are not the same gathering that Jesus Christ spoke of since they are gathered by and led by men - this kind is not found defined in the New Covenant, so?

Kobojunkiee:
Jesus Christ did indeed have 12 disciples who were training under Him, but I am afraid I do not find anywhere in the Gospel were Jesus Christ commands them to meet regularly as you suggest. Again, this since, the contract itself is not for groups but for individuals and defines the direct relationship between them and God Himself, not others
Interesting! Are you implying from this that the Holy Spirit will only come upon those who are gathered together with others, but never on individuals in isolation of others?
How did God give the approval for the "opening" of this church in and after Antioch?
And how do you come to the belief that "Iron sharpeneth Iron" implies that God wants men to sharpen each other up in His New Covenant?
The only group specified in the terms and conditions of the contract is Jesus Christ's Church, not the church in Antioch or anywhere else. And according to Jesus Christ, His group consists of all of His followers, regardless of their geographical location, and Jesus Christ knows then and He alone gathers them since they all have Him living inside of them, no matter where they are located.

Your churches however are not the same gathering that Jesus Christ spoke of since they are gathered by and led by men - this kind is not found defined in the New Covenant, so?

Jesus encouraged his followers to gather together, Matt 18:20

No, but it is a fact the helper which is the holy spirit FIRST came upon them in pentecost when they were gathered together.

From the book of Romans-Thessalonians are addressed to churches. Some parts of the book of Revelations too. God gave his "approval" of those churches because Roman's-Thessalonians are part of the bible.

Proverb 27:17 answer the iron question.

Kobojunkiee:
God is God of Laws and His Laws tend to have a name attached. The Old Covenant Law is called the Law of Moses or Mosaic law because it was given through Moses to the people of Israel. He has many names, but He gave them the name YHWH a the name of their God.
Similar to the way that Jesus Christ is the one we are called to trust and obey in the New Covenant, YHWH is the one the Israelites is the one the Jews are called to trust and obey in the Old Covenant.
The high priest was not a mediator in the Old Covenant agreement as Jesus Christ is the mediator in the New Covenant. Nothing in the job specification, some of it seen in the passage below, even hints at that. Yes, the high priest had a special job, as did the other priests, and those of the tribe of levi, but it becomes a stretch to suggest that the job was as a mediator between God and the people since God also had His prophets.

By the time of Jesus Christ, Ananias, I believe, was the High Priest and he was far from what one would call a holy or even godly man, yet there were many righteous men in the land at the time, all of them of the Old Covenant belief.

Given that the Priestly system has long been discontinued, Aaron and his descendants long forgotten in the land, does this then mean that the Covenant is over and done with? No, the mediator is eternal and separate from the high priests and the other priests in the system. A Mediator is instead the means by which the people are able to call on or reach God of the Covenant and YHWH is the name of God by which any Jew, even today where the priesthood is no longer in practice, can call on Him.
Yep! Different Laws, different mediators, different Kingdoms but the same God.
The clue to understanding what the disciples were saying is found in the same context. The disciples made their decision in order to inform the believers of rules they should live by in order not to run afoul of the Jewish Old Covenant laws in the land.
P.S The Old Covenant Law of Moses(YHWH) is an everlasting covenant between God and the people of Israel, so it is very much in place even to this day.
The letter they wrote, as a result, was also written to believers living in the land of Canaan at the time.
You are right that Jesus Christ said that of swords but the commandment He gave us was instead is that we love our enemies(implying we not even fight back at all).

I wish I had the strength to address you properly but I will try. Heb 4:15 draws similarities between jesus and the high priest.


Some things you said up there, I already showed your references. You didnt know they were there before.

I will address them later, notice my short concise reply, I am tired.

needanswer:
I wish I had the strength to address you properly but I will try. Heb 4:15 draws similarities between jesus and the high priest.

I am well aware of what Paul wrote in his letter to the Hebrew Christians, but the fact is, nowhere in the declaration of the Old Covenant are we in fact told that the high priest serves as "mediator" between God and the people. Instead, Moses is listed as the mediator between God and the people in the giving of the Old Covenant.

Deuteronomy 5 vs 22-33 (ERV)
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22. “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and he added no more. And he wrote them upon two tables of stone, and gave them to me.
[b] 23. And when you heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, while the mountain was burning with fire, you came near to me, all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;
[b] 24. and you said, ‘Behold, the Lord our God has shown us his glory and greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire; we have this day seen God speak with man and man still live.
25. Now therefore why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any more, we shall die.
26. For who is there of all flesh, that has heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of fire, as we have, and has still lived?
27. Go near, and hear all that the Lord our God will say; and speak to us all that the Lord our God will speak to you; and we will hear and do it.’
28. “And the Lord heard your words, when you spoke to me; and the Lord said to me, ‘I have heard the words of this people, which they have spoken to you; they have rightly said all that they have spoken.
29. Oh that they had such a mind as this always, to fear me and to keep all my commandments, that it might go well with them and with their children for ever!
[b] 20. Go and say to them, “Return to your tents.”
31. But you, stand here by me, and I will tell you all the commandment and the statutes and the ordinances which you shall teach them, that they may do them in the land which I give them to possess.’
32. You shall be careful to do therefore as the Lord your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
33. You shall walk in all the way which the Lord your God has commanded you, that you may live, and that it may go well with you, and that you may live long in the land which you shall possess.

In reality the Old Covenant high priests do not compare to Jesus Christ(the embodiment of the New Covenant), the agreement between God and individual man, in any true way or manner.

needanswer:
Some things you said up there, I already showed your references. You didn't know they were there before.
I will address them later, notice my short concise reply, I am tired.

Looking forward to reading more of it.

needanswer:
I dont quite get that MEDIATE part. Do you mean in prayer, cause if its prayer, they end every prayer with JESUS NAME.

If it is also bible I know they study Jesus life and ministry with me, especially his kingdom message, even the Easter that just past they spoke about jesus and the importance of his sacrifice.

So I dont quite get the mediate part.



The blood part self i am very uncomfortable with it but the logic is sound after going through it myself but I can't quite imagine myself going through it. My faith hasnt reached that level yet.

The bible says that who so ever kills by the SWORD will perish by the SWORD. now its modern day, AK47 can kill multiple people in less than a minute, does killing by the SWORD apply to me killing with an AK47? they are obviously not one and the same but you get the point.

He gave me so many analogies like this and I get it for now, but that is where it ends for me.

Thanks for your response. I'll get to respond to them as I make time for it. Meanwhile, there is this discussion forum I want you to have a look at. It discusses a lot about blood transfusion.

https://discussthetruth.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5533&sid=3aed593b3fa620caccb199338bd5bfc7

and this

https://www.ajwrb.org/

rottennaija:
Thanks for your response. I'll get to respond to them as I make time for it. Meanwhile, there is this discussion forum I want you to have a look at. It discusses a lot about blood transfusion.

https://discussthetruth.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5533&sid=3aed593b3fa620caccb199338bd5bfc7

Okay, thanks

needanswer:
Jesus encouraged his followers to gather together, Matt 18:20

Please carefully examine the passage below, paying close attention to the conditionals highlighted in the statements.

Matthew 18 vs 15-18 (ERV)
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15. “ If your brother or sister in God’s family does something wrong, go and tell them what they did wrong. Do this when you are alone with them. If they listen to you, then you have helped them to be your brother or sister again.
16. But if they refuse to listen, go to them again and take one or two people with you. Then there will be two or three people who will be able to tell all that happened.
17. If they refuse to listen to them, tell the church. And if they refuse to listen to the church, treat them as you would treat someone who does not know God or who is a tax collector.

18. “I can assure you that when you speak judgment here on earth, it will be God’s judgment. And when you promise forgiveness here on earth, it will be God’s forgiveness.
19. To say it another way, if two of you on earth agree on anything you pray for, my Father in heaven will do what you ask.
20. Yes, if two or three people are together believing in me, I am there with them.”

To say that any of the above implies that Jesus Christ encouraged His followers to gather(regularly at that) is a far stretch. Jesus Christ, in verse 20, states that instead that If his followers are gathered, He is there with them where this gathering could be in prison or even in the streets or in their homes or even at the gallows.

needanswer:
No, but it is a fact the helper which is the holy spirit FIRST came upon them in pentecost when they were gathered together.

So, from your answer, the Helper coming on them on the day of Pentecost had nothing to do with their being gathered but instead that each of those gathered belonged to Jesus Christ(individually contracted with God through Jesus Christ), right?

needanswer:
From the book of Romans-Thessalonians are addressed to churches. Some parts of the book of Revelations too. God gave his "approval" of those churches because Roman's-Thessalonians are part of the bible.

Paul's letters were written to the Christians living in particular towns/cities which he regarded as churches. Same with many of the Apostles, but as for the book of Revelation, recall that it is a book written of a vision had by John the apostles.

But I need to stress that the contract we have with God is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ did not give His followers commandments to gather regularly according to a schedule of any man's design or desire, given that He alone knows who His followers are. And we know that unlike Christ's Church, which is a gathering of only His followers, man's church gatherings, even those addressed by Paul in his letters, consists mostly of sinners whom many of your leaders pretend it is their place to sit and teach year after year after year.

needanswer:
Proverb 27:17 answer the iron question.

Friends can help keep each other sharp, but in the Kingdom of God Jesus Christ declared that He alone is Teacher/Shepherd/Helper/Authority/Leader/Master/Counselor/Comforter ... over all those who belong to Him.

John 10 vs 7-20 (ERV)
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7. So Jesus said again, “I assure you, I am the gate for the sheep.
8. All those who came before me were thieves and robbers. The sheep did not listen to them.
9. I am the gate. Whoever enters through me will be saved. They will be able to come in and go out. They will find everything they need.
10. A thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. But I came to give life—life that is full and good.
11. “I am the good shepherd, and the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.
12. The worker who is paid to keep the sheep is different from the shepherd. The paid worker does not own the sheep. So when he sees a wolf coming, he runs away and leaves the sheep alone. Then the wolf attacks the sheep and scatters them.
13. The man runs away because he is only a paid worker. He does not really care for the sheep.

14-15. “I am the shepherd who cares for the sheep. I know my sheep just as the Father knows me. And my sheep know me just as I know the Father. I give my life for these sheep.
16. I have other sheep too. They are not in this flock here. I must lead them also. They will listen to my voice. In the future, there will be one flock and one shepherd.
17. The Father loves me because I give my life. I give my life so that I can get it back again.
18. No one takes my life away from me. I give my own life freely. I have the right to give my life, and I have the right to get it back again. This is what the Father told me.”
19. Again the Jews were divided over what Jesus was saying.
20. Many of them said, “A demon has come into him and made him crazy. Why listen to him?”

So, in what capacity does your "human" iron come in to this relationship between God and a follower of His?

needanswer:
Hello, so I have this elderly JW couple studying with me for some months now, do you think they are a bad idea? If they are what religion do you associate with currently?

Eh! Eh!
Wahala
This question is hard for someone that is still madly in love with with Jws organization.
You know when a breakup is not by mutual agreement and other other is still in love and his Ego is involved


That attitude reminds me of a divorce full of bitterness. An ex husband that is always alert to the last news about his ex wife; every word you say, every action she took, every move you make, every claim you stake, I'll be watching you. He speaks about her and bashes her every day, and tries to contact every date of her to air her dirty laundry, convincing himself he does it for the good of those poor guys.
Do that husband sounds like someone that has moved on or with alternative?(Check his thread).

Need answers,
I like the fact that you've been studying with one of us. But make sure to research extensively focusing on God's name 'Jehovah'

'My brothers may be imperfect cooks but they have the correct recipes '

Have a great day

haddeylium:
Eh! Eh!
Wahala
This question is hard for someone that is still madly in love with with Jws organization.
You know when a breakup is not by mutual agreement and other other is still in love and his Ego is involved


That attitude reminds me of a divorce full of bitterness. An ex husband that is always alert to the last news about his ex wife; every word you say, every action she took, every move you make, every claim you stake, I'll be watching you. He speaks about her and bashes her every day, and tries to contact every date of her to air her dirty laundry, convincing himself he does it for the good of those poor guys.
Do that husband sounds like someone that has moved on or with alternative?(Check his thread).

Need answers,
I like the fact that you've been studying with one of us. But make sure to research extensively focusing on God's name 'Jehovah'

'My brothers may be imperfect cooks but they have the correct recipes '

Have a great day

Thank you. Have a nice day too.

Kobojunkiee:
Please carefully examine the passage below, paying close attention to the conditionals highlighted in the statements.
To say that any of the above implies that Jesus Christ encouraged His followers to gather(regularly at that) is a far stretch. Jesus Christ, in verse 20, states that instead that If his followers are gathered, He is there with them where this gathering could be in prison or even in the streets or in their homes or even at the gallows.
So, from your answer, the Helper coming on them on the day of Pentecost had nothing to do with their being gathered but instead that each of those gathered belonged to Jesus Christ(individually contracted with God through Jesus Christ), right?

Paul's letters were written to the Christians living in particular towns/cities which he regarded as churches. Same with many of the Apostles, but as for the book of Revelation, recall that it is a book written of a vision had by John the apostles.

But I need to stress that the contract we have with God is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ did not give His followers commandments to gather regularly according to a schedule of any man's design or desire, given that He alone knows who His followers are. And we know that unlike Christ's Church, which is a gathering of only His followers, man's church gatherings, even those addressed by Paul in his letters, consists mostly of sinners whom many of your leaders pretend it is their place to sit and teach year after year after year.
Friends can help keep each other sharp, but in the Kingdom of God Jesus Christ declared that He alone is Teacher/Shepherd/Helper/Authority/Leader/Master/Counselor/Comforter ... over all those who belong to Him.
So, in what capacity does your "human" iron come in to this relationship between God and a follower of His?

I'm stressed this evening but I'll say this. I can easily counter all your arguments.

What I posted is easy and clear to understand.

But you are free to believe what you choose to believe.

What I am really interested in this evening with this stress I am experiencing is what I asked the OP in my initial post.

With this post i can confidently, boldy, and wholeheartedly say you are already one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, nothing is delaying you again my brother so complete your study and get baptized!

The truth is you can NEVER found a better performing group anywhere else! So you've finished all critics of pure worship with that statement "something BETTER elsewhere"

What all enemies of pure worship just want you to do is worship anywhere and view all other forms of worship as good!

needanswer:
You are right, I am satisfied. I am not yet a JW, I believe examine if maybe there was something BETTER elsewhere. That part he said he doesnt know which is not helpful.

MaxInDHouse:
With this post i can confidently, boldy, and wholeheartedly say you are already one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, nothing is delaying you again my brother so complete your study and get baptized!

The truth is you can NEVER found a better performing group anywhere else! So you've finished all critics of pure worship with that statement "something BETTER elsewhere"

What all enemies of pure worship just want you to do is worship anywhere and view all other forms of worship as good!

Hmmmm. I am feeling motivated. My lifestyle though. I need to work on it, that's the hardest part. The message is easy for me to understand.

needanswer:
You are right, I am satisfied. I am not yet a JW, I believe examine if maybe there was something BETTER elsewhere. That part he said he doesnt know which is not helpful.

Sorry to cheap in this, I found those two @underlined statements contradicting because when you're satisfied with something you don't look else where.

Well becoming a JWs is your choice and you won't be the last person.

People will continue to change from one religion to another based on their personal view or direct encounter with the True God.

The good news is that all Biblical figures had this same direct encounter with the True God and Jesus said in John 14:21 that "whoever loves Him, He will manifest/reveal/show HIMSELF to him"

This is what I called knowing God beyond letters.

Emusan:
Sorry to cheap in this, I found those two @underlined statements contradicting because when you're satisfied with something you don't look else where.

Well becoming a JWs is your choice and you won't be the last person.

People will continue to change from one religion to another based on their personal view or direct encounter with the True God.

The good news is that all Biblical figures had this same direct encounter with the True God and Jesus said in John 14:21 that "whoever loves Him, He will manifest/reveal/show HIMSELF to him"

This is what I called knowing God beyond letters.

I am satisfied with what I have learnt and when I look else where for contrary answers I still haven't found any worthy yet, so I believe this is the way. I just need to fully commit to walking the way. It is a big decision, hopefully love of God will spur me into it.