Okay, the topic was not totally complete as I meant to say that,' Why it could be dangerous for a formerly promiscuous Christian saved by grace to marry a legalistic Christian virgin.

Let's be truthful to ourselves, chances are that if you were once promiscuous before you got saved you could still be struggling in this department except God gives you unusual grace to overcome it which is what was referred to as the sin that does so easily beset us (Heb 12:1). Now I am not saying that a Christian who hadn't struggled with this sin in the past before marriage may not get caught up in it after marriage but for the sake of what's more likely it is safe to assume that old habits die hard. If such a person ends up marrying a legalistic Christian virgin, that is a Christian virgin who most likely does not understand the concept of being saved by grace having lived a life based on obeying the Law and 'succeeded' in keeping most of it, she would find it hard to forgive the partner if he does commit adultery. This may not be totally due to the fault of the unforgiving partner because it would most likely be hard to give what you don't have as the Bible mentions in Luke 7:47 ...but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

I therefore would suggest that before couples get married they should ask each other this pertinent question,' If I were to commit adultery after we get married would you be willing to forgive me?'. The well thought-out answer to this question could determine if the marriage lasts or not.

A perfect marriage is a myth in the real world and those who have remained married after 5-10 years would tell you that it is a department that you may not survive if you choose to be unforgiving (on the side of both parties) to the faults of each other. Apart from financial problems, infidelity is a major factor that could negatively affect the longevity of marriages so we would do well to plan for this before getting married.

If you can't be faithful, better remain single.

Adultery is a proof that such marriage is a SCAM.

Longevity of marriage is not what determines how good the marriage is.

50 years of marriage with domestic abuse is totally not worth celebrating. Same way 50 years of marriage with adultery ain't worth celebrating.

It's like one claiming to be a vegetarian for 50 years but the person ate meat each day for those 50 years. Such vegetarian lifestyle is a SCAM.

jmoore:
If you can't be faithful, better remain single.

Adultery is a proof that such marriage is a SCAM.

Longevity of marriage is not what determines how good the marriage is.

50 years of marriage with domestic abuse is totally not worth celebrating. Same way 50 years of marriage with adultery ain't worth celebrating.

It's like one claiming to be a vegetarian for 50 years but the person ate meat each day for those 50 years. Such vegetarian lifestyle is a SCAM.

Have you met Nigerians?

africandollar:
Okay, the topic was not totally complete as I meant to say that,' Why it could be dangerous for a formerly promiscuous Christian saved by grace to marry a legalistic Christian virgin.

Let's be truthful to ourselves, chances are that if you were once promiscuous before you got saved you could still be struggling in this department except God gives you unusual grace to overcome it which is what was referred to as the sin that does so easily beset us (Heb 12:1). Now I am not saying that a Christian who hadn't struggled with this sin in the past before marriage may not get caught up in it after marriage but for the sake of what's more likely it is safe to assume that old habits die hard. If such a person ends up marrying a legalistic Christian virgin, that is a Christian virgin who most likely does not understand the concept of being saved by grace having lived a life based on obeying the Law and 'succeeded' in keeping most of it, she would find it hard to forgive the partner if he does commit adultery. This may not be totally due to the fault of the unforgiving partner because it would most likely be hard to give what you don't have as the Bible mentions in Luke 7:47 ...but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

I therefore would suggest that before couples get married they should ask each other this pertinent question,' If I were to commit adultery after we get married would you be willing to forgive me?'. The well thought-out answer to this question could determine if the marriage lasts or not.

A perfect marriage is a myth in the real world and those who have remained married after 5-10 years would tell you that it is a department that you may not survive if you choose to be unforgiving (on the side of both parties) to the faults of each other. Apart from financial problems, infidelity is a major factor that could negatively affect the longevity of marriages so we would do well to plan for this before getting married.

No Danger.

jmoore:
If you can't be faithful, better remain single.

Adultery is a proof that such marriage is a SCAM.

Longevity of marriage is not what determines how good the marriage is.

50 years of marriage with domestic abuse is totally not worth celebrating. Same way 50 years of marriage with adultery ain't worth celebrating.

It's like one claiming to be a vegetarian for 50 years but the person ate meat each day for those 50 years. Such vegetarian lifestyle is a SCAM.

Have you been married for at least 7 years and have friends who are? Else this topic would be completely out of your league, you'd just be like those football fans who can analyze games more than the coach who is on the field live.

africandollar:



Have you been married for at least 7 years and have friends who are? Else this topic would be completely out of your league, you'd just be like those football fans who can analyze games more than the coach who is on the field live.

It is like saying that one needs to play football for 7 years to know the definitions of offside, foul, penalty etc.

You don't need to be married to know that marriage is a place of faithfulness.

Your statement is very ridiculous.

Marriage with adultery is a SCAM.

If you want only married people to discuss on this issue, you shouldn't have brought it online. Go and meet the married people face to face.

Smh

jmoore:


It is like saying that one needs to play football for 7 years to know the definitions of offside, foul, penalty etc.

You don't need to be married to know that marriage is a place of faithfulness.

Your statement is very ridiculous.

Marriage with adultery is a SCAM.

If you want only married people to discuss on this issue, you shouldn't have brought it online. Go and meet the married people face to face.

Smh

E pain you? I never said marriage is meant for unfaithfulness but last I checked humans always make mistakes. I should take your advise then to meet the married people...Oya, young one can you call your Daddy or Uncle for me please, we have some grown-up things to discuss. When you're done please go back to your room as I am grounding you for the whole week.

africandollar:


E pain you? I never said marriage is meant for unfaithfulness but last I checked humans always make mistakes. I should take your advise then to meet the married people...Oya, young one can you call your Daddy or Uncle for me please, we have some grown-up things to discuss. When you're done please go back to your room as I am grounding you for the whole week.

Pain me? Just showing you that you wrote rubbish. Even a kid knows domestic violence is not good. So if a kid says it is bad for a man to beat his wife, you will tell the kid to be married first before having such an opinion.

Dude, swerve with your mentality. It stinks!!

jmoore:


Pain me? Just showing you that you wrote rubbish. Even a kid knows domestic violence is not good. So if a kid says it is bad for a man to beat his wife, you will tell the kid to be married first before having such an opinion.

Dude, swerve with your mentality. It stinks!!

Guy, please calm down and re-read my post. No man who truly loves his wife would lay his hands on her no matter what so that's totally out of point, I mentioned infidelity here and believe me there is a difference between falling into temptation and habitually commiting sin without any remorse, the latter is not what I am discussing here.

Even you can't tell me that you haven't committed fornication before vis-a-vis...'You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart'(Matt 5: 27-28). Jesus's exact words, not mine! This is part of the hypocrisy killing our Christianity in Nigeria.

Again, this post is to address real life relationship problem which bedevils marriages and not to discuss a fantasy-induced concept of marriage. If only you would sit down a senior relative or friend and ask them to truly open up to you what their experience has been about married life then you'd be surprised to see a lot of issues being swept under the rug.

africandollar:


Guy, please calm down and re-read my post. No man who truly loves his wife would lay his hands on her no matter what so that's totally out of point, I mentioned infidelity here and believe me there is a difference between falling into temptation and habitually commiting sin without any remorse, the latter is not what I am discussing here.

Even you can't tell me that you haven't committed fornication before vis-a-vis...'You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart'(Matt 5: 27-28). Jesus's exact words, not mine! This is part of the hypocrisy killing our Christianity in Nigeria.

Again, this post is to address real life relationship problem which bedevils marriages and not to discuss a fantasy-induced concept of marriage. If only you would sit down a senior relative or friend and ask them to truly open up to you what their experience has been about married life then you'd be surprised to see a lot of issues being swept under the rug.

www.theaquilareport.com/whoever-looks-at-a-woman-with-lust-misinterpreted-bible-passages addresses your misconception of Matt 5:27-28

Do you even know why people fall into temptation? It is because they already desire it. The Bible supported that. If you contented, you are less likely to steal. But one that wants the latest stuff always can steal if the opportunity present itself.


I don't need any senior to teach me about marriage. My parent's marriage is a good model for me.


I don't need to ask my future spouse if she would be willing to forgive me when I cheat. Because I have no single desire for adultery.

Nice one, you quickly searched on the internet for an interpretation to a Bible verse that would support your notion for something that's already written in black and white in the Bible?

Meanwhile, if you read the next two verses you would see that Jesus was pointing towards how impossible it would be for a man to fully satisfy the Law.

I am happy you have good parents you can model your marriage after, that is a great legacy every parent should leave for their children. Although remember that not everyone has the opportunity of a good marriage to model after.

Hardly do you ever meet a well meaning Christian who cheated on their partner that had same intention right from when they got married so your view wouldn’t be a special one.

Your point is duly noted bro...let's allow others to comment.

africandollar:
Nice one, you quickly searched on the internet for an interpretation to a Bible verse that would support your notion for something that's already written in black and white in the Bible?

Meanwhile, if you read the next two verses you would see that Jesus was pointing towards how impossible it would be for a man to fully satisfy the Law.

I am happy you have good parents you can model your marriage after, that is a great legacy every parent should leave for their children. Although remember that not everyone has the opportunity of a good marriage to model after.

Hardly do you ever meet a well meaning Christian who cheated on their partner that had same intention right from when they got married so your view wouldn’t be a special one.

Your point is duly noted bro...let's allow others to comment.

Jesus Christ never said it would be possible for a man to fulfill the law. In fact, during His time, there were men who were deemed righteous by the standard of the same Law that Jesus Christ spoke also of fulfilling at that time. And Jesus Christ acknowledged this when He declared to the pharisees that the reason He sat with sinners and publicans instead of the righteous of the time was because He came to call, not the righteous, but the sinners, to God. It is only those who are sick that need a physician; not those who aren't sick.

That said, Jesus Christ made it doubly clear that the one who Lusts is the one at fault for the sin, not the one who is near or married to the sinner. He declared that it is wah one stores up in ones heart that comes out on the form of what we call adultery, fornication, etc. So, in this case a formerly promiscuous "Christian" who still has lust stored up in his heart, will only bring out that which is stored up in him when he is tempted.

Similar is seen in the story of Judas who had sin stored up in heart even after following Jesus Christ for more than 3 years of his existence. It is not Jesus Christ or the other disciples to blame for Judas' betrayal, but Judas alone.

On the issue of sin, so long as one remains a slave to sin, the chances are one will eventually fall when tempted. And being a slave does not mean one sins regularly. No, it means one still has sin stored up in ones heart. The key is in understanding what sin really is. Sin is simply disobedience, the desire to do that which is contrary to God's command, siding instead with one's will/ego or self.

The opposite of sin is faith and this faith is in God through the obedience of God's commandments. This according to Jesus Christ who declared in John 8 that the only way to break free from the clutches of sin is through submission to and obedience of His teachings and commandments, clearly laid out in the 4 gospels by the way. Jesus declared that only those who obey His teachings will know the Truth will know the Truth and the Truth will set them free.

Now note that the above applies to all, whether married or not, whether young or old - the Truth of God as far as sin is concerned is without bias. So, please head Teuth of God as revealed by Jesus Christ rather than trying to lay blame on the wrong persons or ideas.

Kobojunkiee:
Jesus Christ never said it would be possible for a man to fulfill the law. In fact, during His time, there were men who were deemed righteous by the standard of the same Law that Jesus Christ spoke also of fulfilling at that time. And Jesus Christ acknowledged this when He declared to the pharisees that the reason He sat with sinners and publicans instead of the righteous of the time was because He came to call, not the righteous, but the sinners, to God. It is only those who are sick that need a physician; not those who aren't sick.

That said, Jesus Christ made it doubly clear that the one who Lusts is the one at fault for the sin, not the one who is near or married to the sinner. He declared that it is wah one stores up in ones heart that comes out on the form of what we call adultery, fornication, etc. So, in this case a formerly promiscuous "Christian" who still has lust stored up in his heart, will only bring out that which is stored up in him when he is tempted.

Similar is seen in the story of Judas who had sin stored up in heart even after following Jesus Christ for more than 3 years of his existence. It is not Jesus Christ or the other disciples to blame for Judas' betrayal, but Judas alone.

On the issue of sin, so long as one remains a slave to sin, the chances are one will eventually fall when tempted. And being a slave does not mean one sins regularly. No, it means one still has sin stored up in ones heart. The key is in understanding what sin really is. Sin is simply disobedience, the desire to do that which is contrary to God's command, siding instead with one's will/ego or self.

The opposite of sin is faith and this faith is in God through the obedience of God's commandments. This according to Jesus Christ who declared in John 8 that the only way to break free from the clutches of sin is through submission to and obedience of His teachings and commandments, clearly laid out in the 4 gospels by the way. Jesus declared that only those who obey His teachings will know the Truth will know the Truth and the Truth will set them free.

Now note that the above applies to all, whether married or not, whether young or old - the Truth of God as far as sin is concerned is without bias. So, please head Teuth of God as revealed by Jesus Christ rather than trying to lay blame on the wrong persons or ideas.

Definitely the fault is with the person who sins but the partner who the sin was committed against would only be able to totally forgive the erring partner through God’s grace and at times the ‘prodigals’ are the ones who tend to have a better understanding of God’s grace however this shouldn’t be so because seeing that Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifice for our sins should show us that that is the highest form of grace made available to man.

Also, someone who falls into sin and gets convicted by the Holy Spirit would most likely confess his shortcomings to the partner but an habitual sinner would NEVER do that!

The confession I believe is necessary to hold him accountable and also to regain the trust the other partner has in him but as far as God is concerned he’s already forgiven.

My conclusion is that the grace of God should be preached more often else affected marriages would never be healed and should the ailing partner choose not to confess because of the ridicule he might face the hypocrisy being haboured would prevent them from fully walking in God’s will.

I’m sure you’ve heard of some seriously anointed men of God who fell into this same trap but their ministry never recovered from the scandal! I don’t think these men of God stored up sin in their heart but the culprit always is the flesh...pray the devil doesn’t make one his business to make the ministry God committed into his hands to fail!


Remember Jesus words to the woman caught in adultery... And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” That should be the attitude we have towards those caught in the trap of sin and not to keep knocking them down.

africandollar:
Definitely the fault is with the person who sins but the partner who the sin was committed against would only be able to totally forgive the erring partner through God’s grace and at times the ‘prodigals’ are the ones who tend to have a better understanding of God’s grace

That is not true unless you are going to, declare, in the same breathe, that the same God's grace exists in unbelievers/atheists, rendering mute this suggestion.

africandollar:
however this shouldn’t be so because seeing that Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifice for our sins should show us that that is the highest form of grace made available to man.

I am sorry what? Jesus Christ did not pay any ultimate sacrifice for your sins. I think you are strung up on the doctrines of men on that one. Instead, according to Jesus Christ, you are instead saved(by His resurrection) from the condemnation of sin(Death), not to be confused in any way or form with sin itself.

africandollar:
Also, someone who falls into sin and gets convicted by the Holy Spirit would most likely confess his shortcomings to the partner but an habitual sinner would NEVER do that!

First, nobody "falls" into sin. Sin is disobedience and disobedience is a choice, a decision that is consciously made, particularly when the person is aware of the teachings/commandments of God.

Second, one who sins does not get convicted by the Spirit of God. Have you not read, "You shall be Holy unto me, for I, the Lord, am Holy" or "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect"? The Spirit of God does not live inside of a one who is still tangled up in sin- such a vessel is an unholy slave of sin and of his father, the devil!

When Jesus Christ spoke of the Spirit of God entering to convict the world of sin, He did not imply that the Spirit would indwell those who are in the world, but instead that by shining the light of Jesus Christ through those who are followers of Jesus Christ, the light reveals to the Sinners the difference between what they do and what God desires.

africandollar:
The confession I believe is necessary to hold him accountable and also to regain the trust the other partner has in him but as far as God is concerned he’s already forgiven.

My conclusion is that the grace of God should be preached more often else affected marriages would never be healed and should the ailing partner choose not to confess because of the ridicule he might face the hypocrisy being haboured would prevent them from fully walking in God’s will.

I’m sure you’ve heard of some seriously anointed men of God who fell into this same trap but their ministry never recovered from the scandal! I don’t think these men of God stored up sin in their heart but the culprit always is the flesh...pray the devil doesn’t make one his business to make the ministry God committed into his hands to fail!

Remember Jesus words to the woman caught in adultery... [b]And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”[/b]That should be the attitude we have towards those caught in the trap of sin and not to keep knocking them down.

Sin is disobedience, a decision or choice made, not while committing the act of defiance but instead conceived in the heart at the point when decision or choice is made to act contrary to God's commandment/rule. Jesus Christ made it clear that it is at the point that desire to act contrary to God's commandment is birthed, that the sin is committed. So, whatever consequences that follow the actual act, cannot help or erase the fault that has already been registered against the person.

Also, there is no such thing as "the trap of sin". Everyone is tempted but the one who still has sin in his heart is likely to fall to temptation, and fall hard. When he does, it behooves him to go to God, penitent sinner that he ought to be, to ask for forgiveness, accepting instead the consequence of his "fall" as God will allow it. If those around decide to show him mercy, then it is theirs to do so, and not for him to demand it of them.

Honestly, I think you have said a lot here that does not even align with biblical teaching, causing me to wonder if you realize that your premise is faulty !

Kobojunkiee:
That is not true unless you are going to, declare, in the same breathe, that the same God's grace exists in unbelievers/atheists, rendering mute this suggestion.
I am sorry what? Jesus Christ did not pay any ultimate sacrifice for your sins. I think you are strung up on the doctrines of men on that one. Instead, according to Jesus Christ, you are instead saved(by His resurrection) from the condemnation of sin(Death), not to be confused in any way or form with sin itself.
First, nobody "falls" into sin. Sin is disobedience and disobedience is a choice, a decision that is consciously made, particularly when the person is aware of the teachings/commandments of God.

Second, one who sins does not get convicted by the Spirit of God. Have you not read, "You shall be Holy unto me, for I, the Lord, am Holy" or "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect"? The Spirit of God does not live inside of a one who is still tangled up in sin- such a vessel is an unholy slave of sin and of his father, the devil!

When Jesus Christ spoke of the Spirit of God entering to convict the world of sin, He did not imply that the Spirit would indwell those who are in the world, but instead that by shining the light of Jesus Christ through those who are followers of Jesus Christ, the light reveals to the Sinners the difference between what they do and what God desires.
Sin is disobedience, a decision or choice made, not while committing the act of defiance but instead conceived in the heart at the point when decision or choice is made to act contrary to God's commandment/rule. Jesus Christ made it clear that it is at the point that desire to act contrary to God's commandment is birthed, that the sin is committed. So, whatever consequences that follow the actual act, cannot help or erase the fault that has already been registered against the person.

Also, there is no such thing as "the trap of sin". Everyone is tempted but the one who still has sin in his heart is likely to fall to temptation, and fall hard. When he does, it behooves him to go to God, penitent sinner that he ought to be, to ask for forgiveness, accepting instead the consequence of his "fall" as God will allow it. If those around decide to show him mercy, then it is theirs to do so, and not for him to demand it of them.

Honestly, I think you have said a lot here that does not even align with biblical teaching, causing me to wonder if you realize that your premise is faulty !

I really question your Christian foundation with all the points you wrote out here, I would therefore recommend that you support your statements with quoted verses from the Bible (the roadmap for every Christian) so we can at least be singing from the same hymn book, no point being lazy when it comes to correctly dividing the word of Truth.

The 'suggestion' that the prodigals have a better understanding of God's unconditional grace is clearly stated in the Bible in a verse which I previously quoted, 'Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little' Luke 7:47. Also consider the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32) Did the (legalistic) son who had always obeyed his Father find it easy to agree with the Father's graceful actions towards the prodigal son?

Also kindly show me where it is written in the Scriptures that we are saved by Jesus's resurrection rather than his crucifixion, you can't separate His crucifixion from his resurrection, it's just like saying you have yam available for you to eat because you harvested yam without considering that you first planted the seed. If anything, the resurrection is proof that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was acceptable.

Yes, sinning is a choice so no need to get strung up on terms here. If we all had the ability to always say no to sin then there would have been no need for a Saviour, as long as you are in a fallen body you would always struggle with sin except you want to insist that you have power over sin in all forms by yourself including lust.

Kobojunkiee:
The Spirit of God does not live inside of a one who is still tangled up in sin- such a vessel is an unholy slave of sin and of his father, the devil! :-

Really?! So you are saying that King David is also a son of the devil?

For all the other points you stated I would appreciate you being 'Berean' enough to search for the passages in the Scriptures to support your points but just to give you a snippet at how helpless we are at satisfying God's Laws, the ten commandments are not God's complete Laws...actually God gave the Israelites about 613 laws all stated in the Books of Moses, first try those on for size before thinking you can call yourself righteous before God.

africandollar:
I really question your Christian foundation with all the points you wrote out here, I would therefore recommend that you support your statements with quoted verses from the Bible (the roadmap for every Christian) so we can at least be singing from the same hymn book, no point being lazy when it comes to correctly dividing the word of Truth.

The 'suggestion' that the prodigals have a better understanding of God's unconditional grace is clearly stated in the Bible in a verse which I previously quoted, 'Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little' Luke 7:47. Also consider the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32) Did the (legalistic) son who had always obeyed his Father find it easy to agree with the Father's graceful actions towards the prodigal son?

"Unconditional" grace?

Luke 7 vs 36-50 (ERV)
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36. One of the Pharisees asked Jesus to eat with him. Jesus went into the Pharisee’s house and took a place at the table.
37. There was a sinful woman in that town. She knew that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house. So the woman brought some expensive perfume in an alabaster jar.
38. She stood at Jesus’ feet, crying. Then she began to wash his feet with her tears. She dried his feet with her hair. She kissed his feet many times and rubbed them with the perfume.
39. When the Pharisee who asked Jesus to come to his house saw this, he thought to himself, “If this man were a prophet,[b] he would know that the woman who is touching him is a sinner!”
40. In response, Jesus said to the Pharisee, “Simon, I have something to say to you.”
Simon said, “Let me hear it, Teacher.”
41. Jesus said, “There were two men. Both men owed money to the same banker. One man owed him 500 silver coins. The other man owed him 50 silver coins.
42. The men had no money, so they could not pay their debt. But the banker told the men that they did not have to pay him. Which one of those two men will love him more?”
43. Simon answered, “I think it would be the one who owed him the most money.”
Jesus said to him, “You are right.”
44. Then he turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? When I came into your house, you gave me no water for my feet. But she washed my feet with her tears and dried my feet with her hair.
45. You did not greet me with a kiss, but she has been kissing my feet since I came in.
46. You did not honor me with oil for my head, but she rubbed my feet with her sweet-smelling oil.
47. I tell you that her many sins are forgiven. This is clear because she showed great love. People who are forgiven only a little will love only a little.”
48. Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
49. The people sitting at the table began to think to themselves, “Who does this man think he is? How can he forgive sins?”
[b]50. Jesus said to the woman, “Because you believed, you are saved from your sins. Go in peace.”

Here's a question for you.... why did the woman wash Jesus's feet with her tears, dry it with her own hair, kiss and rub it with perfume?

The Passage below is the story of the parable son. Pay attention to what the prodigal son said in verses 18 -20.

[b] Luke 15 vs 11-24 (ERV)
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11. Then Jesus said, “There was a man who had two sons.
12. The younger son said to his father, ‘Give me now the part of your property that I am supposed to receive someday.’ So the father divided his wealth between his two sons.
13. “A few days later the younger son gathered up all that he had and left. He traveled far away to another country, and there he wasted his money living like a fool.
14. After he spent everything he had, there was a terrible famine throughout the country. He was hungry and needed money.
15. So he went and got a job with one of the people who lived there. The man sent him into the fields to feed pigs.
16. He was so hungry that he wanted to eat the food the pigs were eating. But no one gave him anything.
17. “The son realized that he had been very foolish. He thought, ‘All my father’s hired workers have plenty of food. But here I am, almost dead because I have nothing to eat.
18. I will leave and go to my father. I will say to him: Father, I have sinned against God and have done wrong to you.
19. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. But let me be like one of your hired workers.’
20. So he left and went to his father.
The Younger Son Returns
“While the son was still a long way off, his father saw him coming and felt sorry for him. So he ran to him and hugged and kissed him. [/b]
21. The son said, ‘Father, I have sinned against God and have done wrong to you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
22. “But the father said to his servants, ‘Hurry! Bring the best clothes and put them on him. Also, put a ring on his finger and good sandals on his feet.
23. And bring our best calf and kill it so that we can celebrate with plenty to eat.
24. My son was dead, but now he is alive again! He was lost, but now he is found!’ So they began to have a party.

Why did the son feel the need to repent, a requirement for anyone who wants to follow Jesus Christ?
Did you know that Jesus Christ commands repentance/a turning away from sin from those who will belong to Him?
Why did even the prodigal obey this command in the above passage told by Jesus Christ?

africandollar:
Also kindly show me where it is written in the Scriptures that we are saved by Jesus's resurrection rather than his crucifixion, you can't separate His crucifixion from his resurrection, it's just like saying you have yam available for you to eat because you harvested yam without considering that you first planted the seed. If anything, the resurrection is proof that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was acceptable.

Recall that Jesus Christ Himself confessed that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel .i.e. the sinners among His people?

Matthew 15 vs 21-28 (ERV)
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21. Jesus went from there to the area of Tyre and Sidon.
22. A Canaanite woman from that area came out and began shouting, “Lord, Son of David, please help me! My daughter has a demon inside her, and she is suffering very much.”
23. But Jesus did not answer her. So the followers came to him and said, “Tell her to go away. She keeps crying out and will not leave us alone.”
24. Jesus answered, “God sent me only to the lost people[d] of Israel.”
25. Then the woman came over to Jesus and bowed before him. She said, “Lord, help me!”
26. He answered her with this saying: “It is not right to take the children’s bread and give it to the dogs.”
27. The woman said, “Yes, Lord, but even the dogs eat the pieces of food that fall from their master’s table.”
28. Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! You will get what you asked for.” And right then the woman’s daughter was healed.

Now ask yourself how then is it that those of the gentile nations now have a claim in the promise that is Jesus Christ?
This topic is best left for another thread if you are really interested.

africandollar:
Yes, sinning is a choice so no need to get strung up on terms here. If we all had the ability to always say no to sin then there would have been no need for a Saviour, as long as you are in a fallen body you would always struggle with sin except you want to insist that you have power over sin in all forms by yourself including lust.

You do not have to worry about All but simply you as an individual! The contract that is Jesus Christ is a personal one, and the same Jesus Christ revealed to us how we can each become free from the clutches of sin...

John 8 vs 31-36
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31. So Jesus said to the Jews who believed in him, “If you continue to accept and obey my teaching, you are really my followers.
32. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
33. They answered, “We are Abraham’s descendants. And we have never been slaves. So why do you say that we will be free?”
34. Jesus said, “The truth is, everyone who sins is a slave—a slave to sin.
35. A slave does not stay with a family forever. But a son belongs to the family forever.
36. So if the Son makes you free, you are really free.

During the time of Jesus Christ, 2000 years ago, there existed righteous men and women in the land, - examples from within the gospels include Zechariah and his wife Elizabeth(Luke 1), Joseph(father of Jesus Christ), Simeon(Luke 2), Joseph of Arimathea(Luke 23) - who had attained holiness/perfection under the Old Covenant Law, and were living righteous lives, so please, there is no such thing as a "fallen body". Instead, there is the will of man and the choice to obey or disobey God's Law.

africandollar:
Really?! So you are saying that King David is also a son of the devil?

How so?
Was David a slave to his sins? Did David submit that his "fallen body" was to blame for his sin against God?

africandollar:
For all the other points you stated I would appreciate you being 'Berean' enough to search for the passages in the Scriptures to support your points but just to give you a snippet at how helpless we are at satisfying God's Laws, the ten commandments are not God's complete Laws...actually God gave the Israelites about 613 laws all stated in the Books of Moses, first try those on for size before thinking you can call yourself righteous before God.

You and I are not Israelites and so were never bound to God's Old Covenant Law of Moses to those who are of the Blood of Jacob. As you can see from the passage below, it is impossible for a gentile to be bound in any way to the Old Covenant Law, God made sure of it.

Deuteronomy 30 vs 15-20 (ERV)
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15. “Today I have given you a choice between life and death, success and disaster.
16. I command you today to love the Lord your God. I command you to follow him and to obey his commands, laws, and rules. Then you will live, and your nation will grow larger. And the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take for your own.
17. But if you turn away from your God and refuse to listen, if you are led away to worship and serve other gods,
18. you will be destroyed. I am warning you today, if you turn away from God, you will not live long in that land across the Jordan River that you are ready to enter and take for your own.

19. “Today I am giving you a choice of two ways. And I ask heaven and earth to be witnesses of your choice. You can choose life or death. The first choice will bring a blessing. The other choice will bring a curse. So choose life! Then you and your children will live.
20. You must love the Lord your God and obey him. Never leave him, because he is your life. And he will give you long life in the land that he, the Lord, promised to give to your ancestors—Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

So, any gentile following either just 10 out of the 613 statutes or All of the laws does so in vain. Why? Because God will never change His mind on what He proclaimed through His servant Moses as far as who the Covenant belongs to.

Now, as I pointed out earlier, there were in fact many in the land of Canaan who was able to satisfy the requirements of the Old Covenant with all its 613 statutes. Yes, the Old Covenant Law is not impossible to keep. During the time of Elijah, God mentioned that there were 1000 other servants of His in the land to take his, Elijah's, place, and these just prophets. Jesus Christ also revealed that there were those already living righteously in the land, in the passage below.

Matthew 9 vs 27-30 (ESV)
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12. Jesus heard them say this. So he said to them, “It is the sick people who need a doctor, not those who are healthy.
13. You need to go and learn what this Scripture means: ‘I don’t want animal sacrifices; I want you to show kindness to people.’[a] I did not come to invite good people. I came to invite sinners.”

So it is indeed possible to live according to the Old Covenant Law of Moses, and we have numerous examples of those who did example that, in the bible.

That aside, we as gentiles, are called, not according to the Old Covenant Law of Moses, but instead according to the New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, of the Kingdom of God, not of the land of Canaan. Jesus Christ is the New Covenant Law promised by God through His prophets through which He blesses those of all nations, and this Law comes with it a light yoke and an easy burden. The yoke consists of only about 50 commandments which we are expected to trust and obey, and according to Jesus Christ, only those who do so will He and His Father live inside of.

John 14 vs 15-21 (ESV)
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15. “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
16. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper,[f] to be with you forever,
17. even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be[g] in you.
18. “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
20. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
21. Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

Kobojunkiee:
"Unconditional" grace?
Here's a question for you.... why did the woman wash Jesus's feet with her tears, dry it with her own hair, kiss and rub it with perfume?

The Passage below is the story of the parable son. Pay attention to what the prodigal son said in verses 18 -20.
Why did the son feel the need to repent, a requirement for anyone who wants to follow Jesus Christ?
Did you know that Jesus Christ commands repentance/a turning away from sin from those who will belong to Him?
Why did even the prodigal obey this command in the above passage told by Jesus Christ?
Recall that Jesus Christ Himself confessed that He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel .i.e. the sinners among His people?
Now ask yourself how then is it that those of the gentile nations now have a claim in the promise that is Jesus Christ?
This topic is best left for another thread if you are really interested.
You do not have to worry about All but simply you as an individual! The contract that is Jesus Christ is a personal one, and the same Jesus Christ revealed to us how we can each become free from the clutches of sin...
During the time of Jesus Christ, 2000 years ago, there existed righteous men and women in the land, - examples from within the gospels include Zechariah and his wife Elizabeth(Luke 1), Joseph(father of Jesus Christ), Simeon(Luke 2), Joseph of Arimathea(Luke 23) - who had attained holiness/perfection under the Old Covenant Law, and were living righteous lives, so please, there is no such thing as a "fallen body". Instead, there is the will of man and the choice to obey or disobey God's Law.
How so?
Was David a slave to his sins? Did David submit that his "fallen body" was to blame for his sin against God?
You and I are not Israelites and so were never bound to God's Old Covenant Law of Moses to those who are of the Blood of Jacob. As you can see from the passage below, it is impossible for a gentile to be bound in any way to the Old Covenant Law, God made sure of it.
So, any gentile following either just 10 out of the 613 statutes or All of the laws does so in vain. Why? Because God will never change His mind on what He proclaimed through His servant Moses as far as who the Covenant belongs to.

Now, as I pointed out earlier, there were in fact many in the land of Canaan who was able to satisfy the requirements of the Old Covenant with all its 613 statutes. Yes, the Old Covenant Law is not impossible to keep. During the time of Elijah, God mentioned that there were 1000 other servants of His in the land to take his, Elijah's, place, and these just prophets. Jesus Christ also revealed that there were those already living righteously in the land, in the passage below.
So it is indeed possible to live according to the Old Covenant Law of Moses, and we have numerous examples of those who did example that, in the bible.

That aside, we as gentiles, are called, not according to the Old Covenant Law of Moses, but instead according to the New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, of the Kingdom of God, not of the land of Canaan. Jesus Christ is the New Covenant Law promised by God through His prophets through which He blesses those of all nations, and this Law comes with it a light yoke and an easy burden. The yoke consists of only about 50 commandments which we are expected to trust and obey, and according to Jesus Christ, only those who do so will He and His Father live inside of.

Thanks for all those verses you quoted however I would only focus on three things you stated to decipher the kind of spirit in you.

i) You do not believe that we were saved by Jesus's death on the cross?! For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit (1Peter 3:18).

ii) Jesus only came to save only the lost sheep of Israel?! He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2)

iii) The yoke of Christ consists of only about 50 commandments?! Not in my Bible!

I don't know what books you have been reading but I doubt if it's the Bible and I don't think you have the Spirit of God , it is one thing to disagree on certain practices of the faith but it's a completely different issue when it involves disagreeing on the foundation of Christianity itself.

Matters of the eternal soul are not things to be treated with levity so I would advise you go back to the basics and really search where you got it all wrong.

I pray God reveals Himself to you through His Word guided by His Spirit. I rest my case.

africandollar:

Thanks for all those verses you quoted however I would only focus on three things you stated to decipher the kind of spirit in you.

i) You do not believe that we were saved by Jesus's death on the cross?! For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit (1Peter 3:18).

ii) Jesus only came to save only the lost sheep of Israel?! He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2)

iii) The yoke of Christ consists of only about 50 commandments?! Not in my Bible!

I don't know what books you have been reading but I doubt if it's the Bible and I don't think you have the Spirit of God , it is one thing to disagree on certain practices of the faith but it's a completely different issue when it involves disagreeing on the foundation of Christianity itself.

Matters of the eternal soul are not things to be treated with levity so I would advise you go back to the basics and really search where you got it all wrong.

I pray God reveals Himself to you through His Word guided by His Spirit. I rest my case.

1. Understanding of the Truth of God is not given to only those who have the Spirit of God in them. According to Jesus Christ, it is given to those who use the understanding they already have. Those who have but refuse to use what they have will have even that little they have taken away from them.

2. Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of the lost of sheep of Israel, the ones who, according to Jesus Christ Himself, He was went to. His death was the fulfillment of the prophets just as God said it would be. His resurrection, however, conquering death, was on behalf of those previously condemned by God to death - the gentile nations. It was through conquering on death that we were welcomed into His flock.

3. Sin is defined by the Law and those who have sins are those under the Law, and during the time Jesus Christ was on earth, the sinners in world were those who were bound under the Old Covenant Law of Moses. The rest of the world living outside of the boundaries of the Law were already and condemned to die, by God Himself, so they had no sins to atone for since already judged and condemned.
His blood was shed for the forgiveness of the sins of all those who believe in Him.

So, when john wrote in His letter that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world, he was speaking truth.


4. Jesus Christ is the New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God. He is the new agreement promised by God through the prophets to bless the world with. Jesus Christ is the embodiiment of this new Law. This new Contract, unlike the Old Covenant Law of Moses before it, comes with a light yoke and an easy burden. Where the Old Covenant Law carried a yoke of about 613 commandments in total and a burden so heavy that in some cases members of a tribe bore the consequence of sins committed even by one of their own, Jesus Christ comes to you with about 50-something commandments and a burden that is your own cross(you cannot bear anyone else's).

Anyways, I see you might not be interested in the Truth of God like I am so I will not bore you much with this. But just so you know, the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is the Truth of God and before you attempt to preach to anyone, please be sure you know His Truth from the lies that are ideas and opinions of men.