davidnazee:
[s]This is very dumb, typical of a yoruba..
I guess Iya Babatunde will mean, Mother of father has come?[/s]

Dullard!

“Babatunde” is a personal name, “oba” is not.

Cc: babtoundey

babtoundey:



Who on this forum doesn't know you are a big idiot who thinks himself smart and intelligent?
Just as ogun, oya, yeepa, iyooba, Ada and other words your people share with Yoruba have different meanings as with their Yoruba meaning and original meaning, this one too must have a different meaning.

Omonoba, a child that shines.. what piece of nonsense! Why must your king be referred to as a child?
It could also mean a child that is red na. Your concoctions are becoming obsolete and redundantly boring


A child that shines
A child that is red
it is shining

Thank you bro, sometimes when I think about this Bini people ehh I with just smile maybe he should tell us why they referred"OMO "as a child is omo a Bini language ? Am very sure they have another word in Bini language for child

fregeneh:
Thank you bro, sometimes when I think about this Bini people ehh I with just smile maybe he should tell us why they referred"OMO "as a child is omo a Bini language ? Am very sure they have another word in Bini language for child

Their own Bini word for “child” is “oʋi”.

—————
NB: Their consonant “ʋ” is a voiced bilabial fricative.

It is usually transcribed as “vb”, such that “oʋi” (i.e. “child”) is written as “ovbi”.

Cheers!

Cc: babtoundey

TAO11:
This ones’ brain actually came as fairly used, but I will still be nice enough to offer you free education sha! Hehe
(1a) Rui de Sequeira visited the Aworis’ settlement in 1472 and he documented the received name of their island (and its immediate lagoon outlet to the Atlantic) as the Lake of EkoAromi (translated) — that is, “Lago de Curamo”

(1b) Duarte Pacheco Periero followed suit in 1508 to the same settlement; and to IjebuOde as well, writing about the great city, its ruler, its moat, etc.

(1c) In fact, according to Benin written accounts, the first EuroPean visitor to Benin (in the 1480s), Joao Afonso d’Aviero, was first in Yorubaland (Itsekiri) before messengers came from the Benin king, begging that he should please visit Benin too.

(2) Oduduwa ruled Ife under the following titles among several others:

(a) ‘Oghone’ (which is later spelt/articulated as ‘Owoni’, and now spelt/articulated as ‘Ooni’).

The Binis of old articulate this title of the kings of Ife as ‘Oghene’. ~ See your Oba Erediauwa’s “The Benin-Ife Connection” for an example.

[By the way Erediauwa was a terrible liar, but he was conscious enough of the need to admit this particular fact].

(b) ‘Olofin’ (of which ‘Alaafin’ of the Oyos, and ‘Alaofin’ of the Kogi-Yorubas are dialectal variations).

(c) ‘Adimula’ — amongst many other titles.

That’s the education you’ve been requesting. I didn’t oblige because it is irrelevant to the actual classes I was taking you on at the moment.

(3) (a) The Benin custom of Yoruba tribal marks was received by M. Crowder as pertaining to coronation.

You must therefore first present the Benin bronzes which depict a time of an oba’s coronation.

(b) Moreover, the Benin custom of Yoruba tribal mark was received by M. Crowder as a non-permanent one drawn by chalk.

You must therefore first argue for the linguistic and logical equivalence of chalk and razor.

I finally triggered something in you, keep the lies coming, I will be looking out for when Oduduwa and Oranmiyan finally came into your story as historical persons.

You have given us citations from the 1400s and 1500s, no Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife mentioned yet. Maybe you should try 1600s, 1700s and 1800s. Please tell us when Oduduwa as a historical person came into Yoruba history, this shouldn't be too difficult.

It's easy to tell fairytales but very difficult to defend them with evidence.

You told us aworis settlement was visited in 1472, Ijebu in 1508 and Benin in 1480, I still don't see were Oduduwa was mentioned in these various visits by the Europeans or where those that was visited told the Europeans about Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

Until you can prove me wrong with evidence, the Oduduwa story of being a person other than a myth was created in the 1800s. Please refute it if you can.

You must be deluding yourself by giving us unrelated references to the topic and then tell us Oduduwa ruled Ife under a different name, what year was that, who wrote it down and what year did Benin Oghene metamorphosed into Oduduwa?

Yoruba can't back up Ife and Oduduwa story without looking for unrelated names in Benin history to twist, first you told us Ogane that was mentioned in Benin history was Ife, now you are telling us that Benin Oghene was Oduduwa, yoruba also have to rely on Benin to date Oduduwa to the 1100s. Without Benin history your Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife fallacy is dead on arrival.

You keep referencing and misrepresenting Benin history to back up your Oduduwa fairytales.

Please give us references from Yoruba historical sources earlier than 1800s to back your fabricated Oduduwa up. You can't come here to be using Benin history to defend your Oduduwa story and when the Oba of Benin says he was a Benin prince, you are full of insults.

You have nothing to back your Oduduwa story earlier than 1800s, the Benin you rely on are telling you that he was a Benin prince, you are trying to select the narrative that suits your bigotry.

As for your other minions, I have no time to waste on them. They have nothing but insults to offer.

samuk:
[s]I finally triggered something in you, keep the lies coming[/s]

First of all, you left the comment directed at you un-addressed, while confusing your co-liar’s comment as yours.

You probably want to check who is actually triggered and stop projecting your agony.

[s]I will be looking out for when Oduduwa and Oranmiyan finally came into your story as historical persons.

You have given us citations from the 1400s and 1500s, no Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife mentioned yet. Maybe you should try 1600s, 1700s and 1800s. Please tell us when Oduduwa as a historical person came into Yoruba history, this shouldn't be too difficult.

It's easy to tell fairytales but very difficult to defend them with evidence.

You told us aworis settlement was visited in 1472, Ijebu in 1508 and Benin in 1480, I still don't see were Oduduwa was mentioned in these various visits by the Europeans or where those that was visited told the Europeans about Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.[/s]

I can actually picture you flooded in tears as you typed this particular comment.

Anyways, read that specific comment of mine again, as well as your co-liar’s comment which it addresses (slowly this time), and then point out where your co-liar had asked about Oduduwa, Oranmiyan or Ife.

[s]Until you can prove me wrong with evidence, the Oduduwa story of being a person other than a myth was created in the 1800s. Please refute it if you can.[/s]

Dullard! More like insisting that you truly see Ghosts unless you’re proven wrong.

No! It is your obligation to prove your hallucination. No one else is under any obligation to prove/disprove the twisted thoughts in your head.

Take responsibility now, and also read up the logical fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantiam.

In other words, the “I am right, unless I’m proven wrong” reasoning is a dumb & invalid reasoning that would trick only a Bini dullard.

[s]You must be deluding yourself by giving us unrelated references to the topic and then tell us Oduduwa ruled Ife under a different name, what year was that, who wrote it down[/s]

Again, read that specific comment of mine again, as well as your co-liar’s comment which it addresses (slowly this time), and then point out where your co-liar had asked about Oduduwa, Oranmiyan or Ife.

[s]and what year did Benin Oghene metamorphosed into Oduduwa? Yoruba can't back up Ife and Oduduwa story without looking for unrelated names in Benin history to twist,[/s]

Oghene metamorphosed into Oduduwa ?? ?? What!?? Did you type this while undergoing a brain surgery??

Binis’ skulls are indeed the most mysterious. No truth can ever pass through.

[s]first you told us Ogane that was mentioned in Benin history was Ife,[/s]

Ogane is IFe?? When?? Where?? LMAO! Desperado on the lose.

May God eventually heal you even if in old age.

[s]now you are telling us that Benin Oghene was Oduduwa,[/s]

First of all, Oghene is not a personal name of Oduduwa, neither was it unique or restricted to Oduduwa.

Rather, it was a title of anyone who assumed the rulership of Ife.

Secondly, no it is NOT I who am informing you on that. Rather, it is your fathers & mothers who insisted to the Europeans that the word ‘Oghene’ is their own Bini way of articulating this title of the rulers of Ife.

[s]yoruba also have to rely on Benin to date Oduduwa to the 1100s. Without Benin history your Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife fallacy is dead on arrival.[/s]

Relies on Benin to date Oduduwa to the circa 1000s?? LMAO!

Wait! You mean the EuRoPeAns visited Benin in circa 1000CE?? Lol!

Or you mean that the EUrOpEaNs documented even one word about a specific Benin king in 400 years?? LMAO!

Prepare for the shock:
Of Ife and Benin, only Ife’s chronology of kings aligns best with the authoritative average 13-year length of reign for West African kingdoms vis-a-vis the year in which their respective first kings are thought to have began to reign.

[s]You keep referencing and misrepresenting Benin history to back up your Oduduwa fairytales.

Please give us references from Yoruba historical sources earlier than 1800s to back your fabricated Oduduwa up. You can't come here to be using Benin history to defend your Oduduwa story and when the Oba of Benin says he was a Benin prince, you are full of insults.

You have nothing to back your Oduduwa story earlier than 1800s, the Benin you rely on are telling you that he was a Benin prince, you are trying to select the narrative that suits your bigotry.

As for your other minions, I have no time to waste on them. They have nothing but insults to offer.[/s]

Listen laughing stock:

First of all, LITERALLY no one (historians or Yoruba laypersons) rely on Benin fabrications for Oduduwa’s identity.

Historians have, time and time again, debunked the Benin joke that he was a bEniN pRiNcE. You wish that was historically true.

Secondly, which of the following two should actually make you truly sad as per the absence of eyewitness writing?? Use your brain and be honest.

(a) Eware-1, et al. whom the EUrOpEaNs are supposed to have met and interacted with in Benin in the 1400s.

Yet there is not one single European writing to prove that Ewuare-1, et al. truly existed — until Ewuare-1, et al. were transformed into humans in the 1900s.

OR

(b) Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, et al. who flourished in c. 1000s — that is, some four centuries prior to when the first EUrOpEaNs would step foot into W/Africa to write down a word.

—————
In sum, @Samuk the laughing stock wants to see EUrOpEaN writings (on Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, et al.) from a period when EUrOpEaNs had not yet visited.

Yet he is, in the same breath, indifferent & unmoved by the absence of EUrOpEaN writings (on Ewuare-2, and several others) from a period when EUrOpEaNs were actually present.

The fact that you are from Bini should not stop you from using your brain.

Start using your brain TODAY!

TAO11:
First of all, you’re replying the wrong comment — a comment directed at your co-liar.

Hence, you probably want to check who is triggered and stop projecting your agony.

Listen laughing stock:

Which of the following two should you actually be sad about as per the absence of eyewitness writing ??

(a) MyThiCaL EwUaRe-1, et al. whom EUrOpEaNs were supposed to have met in the 1400s.

Yet there is not one single European writing to prove his existence until he was transformed from mYtH to human in the 1900s.

OR

(b) Oduduwa, Oranmiyan et al. who flourished in c. 1000s — some four centuries prior to when the first EUrOpEaNs would visit W/Africa and write down a word.
—————
The fact that you are from Bini should not stop you from using your brain.

Start using your brain TODAY!

So Oduduwa and Oranmiyan flourished in c. 1000s - four centuries prior to the first visit of Europeans and yet there is nothing in European writings for almost 500 years that shows or even suggested that the names Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were mentioned to them save for latterday manipulation, twisting and misrepresentation of ancient names in Benin history to back up the Oduduwa and Oranmiyan fairytales.

European were practically resident in Benin from the 1600s, why are there no accounts of Benin/Ife interactions during these periods.

Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were not mentioned for 500 years only for us to be told that he flourished 1000 years earlier? On which historical archives did you dig up this bull...$t from. Oh I forgot the muslims led by the Sultan of Sokoto, Sultan Bello told you so in late 1890s.

Please keep the lies coming.

TAO11:
Their own Bini word for “child” is “oʋi”.

—————
NB: Their consonant “ʋ” is a voiced bilabial fricative.

It is usually transcribed as “vb”, such that “oʋi” (i.e. “child”) is written as “ovbi”.

Cheers!

Cc: babtoundey

They now abandoned their own ovbi and cling to Yoruba own. Soon they will be telling us omo has another meaning in Benin language
I even heard they called they call the oba mother Iyaoba, is "iya" an Edo word/Benin word for mother?

God bless you jare Tao11. You made us see their lies in a clearer way.

samuk:
[s]So Oduduwa and Oranmiyan flourished in c. 1000s - four centuries prior to the first visit of Europeans and yet there is nothing in European writings for almost 500 years that shows or even suggested that the names Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were mentioned to them save for latterday manipulation, twisting and misrepresentation of ancient names in Benin history to back up the Oduduwa and Oranmiyan fairytales.[/s]

Incoherent jibber-jabber as typical. Anyways your perceived insinuations is debunked above. Scroll up a bit.

[s]European were practically resident in Benin from the 1600s, why are there no accounts of Benin/Ife interactions during these periods.[/s]

(1) For about the same reasons as why there was zero writings on Benin-Onitsha interaction for example.

(2) For a more sensible reason than why there was zero writing to prove that the following names belong to human beings at all — let alone human beings who are later claimed (in modern Benin stories) to have ruled Benin kingdom:

Ewuare-1, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua-1, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende.

To make matters worse, the same EUrOpEaNs (who love to write) are noted in the modern Benin stories to have actually met and interacted with these supposed humans-cum-kings. Yet, not a single word was written with regards to any specific one of these supposed kings of Benin.

(3) Having said that, there are early Portuguese notes from the 1500s which describe Benin kings as more or less a slave to a great overlord residing in the “east”.

Historians have now reached the conclusion that the wording “east” in these Portuguese writings refers to the religious (rather than literal) epithet of this overlord’s home country, viz. “whence comes the dawn” — IFE, ibi ojumo tii mo wa.

Historians have also reached the consensus now that this overlord himself is none other than the Ooni of Ife in present-day Nigeria.

In case you disagree with historians, I am curious to hear whom you personally think this overlord (to whom your kings are slaves) really is.

[s]Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were not mentioned for 500 years only for us to be told that he flourished 1000 years earlier?[/s]

Eweka-1 down to Ewuare-1 down to Osemwende were not mentioned for 500 years, only for us to be told by Binis that Eweka-1 flourished about 1000 years ago.

Sounds consistent? I think yes. Use your brain today.

[s]On which historical archives did you dig up this bull...$t from.[/s]

Replace “you” with “samuk the laughing stock” to get the full gist.

[s]Oh I forgot the muslims led by the Sultan of Sokoto, Sultan Bello told you so in late 1890s. Please keep the lies coming.[/s]

What!?

Anyways, to keep my free education program to Bini dullards going:

Bishop Adjai Crowther was NOT a Muslim, neither was J. O. George, neither was Pa Moses Lijadu, neither was Rev. S. Johnson, et al., nor did Sultan Bello live beyond 1837 (let alone up to the 1890s).

Your remark is at best meaningless, incoherent, ridiculous, and absurd.

gomojam:
Stop projecting your pain and failure on another person! What you typed above depicts you more succinctly.

Cowards, who will leave tao11 head in the battle field if the debate gets heated up


Afonjaristic babaric skull miners

fregeneh:


Thank you bro, sometimes when I think about this Bini people ehh I with just smile maybe he should tell us why they referred"OMO "as a child is omo a Bini language ? Am very sure they have another word in Bini language for child

We have two words for some things in benin

Unlike the yorubas that have one word for a thing with different spellings


Coconut = evin new( benin)
Coconut = kokodia (old benin)

Ass= onisan
Ass ikebe

Child= omo
Owokan (small child, youngest child)

So basically child is omo which was loaned to the yorubas through benin military expansion

TAO11:
This ones’ brain actually came as fairly used, but I will still be nice enough to offer you free education sha! Hehe
(1a) Rui de Sequeira visited the Aworis’ settlement in 1472 and he documented the received name of their island (and its immediate lagoon outlet to the Atlantic) as the Lake of EkoAromi (translated) — that is, “Lago de Curamo”

(1b) Duarte Pacheco Pereira followed suit in 1508 to the same settlement; and to IjebuOde as well, writing about the great city, its ruler, its moat, etc.

(1c) In fact, according to Benin written accounts, the first EuroPean visitor to Benin (in the 1480s), Joao Afonso d’Aviero, was first in Yorubaland (Itsekiri) before messengers came from the Benin king, begging that he should please visit Benin too.

(2) Oduduwa ruled Ife under the following titles among several others:

(a) ‘Oghone’ (which is later spelt/articulated as ‘Owoni’, and now spelt/articulated as ‘Ooni’).

The Binis of old articulate this title of the kings of Ife as ‘Oghene’. ~ See your Oba Erediauwa’s “The Benin-Ife Connection” for an example.

[By the way Erediauwa was a terrible liar, but he was conscious enough of the need to admit this particular fact].

(b) ‘Olofin’ (of which ‘Alaafin’ of the Oyos, and ‘Alaofin’ of the Kogi-Yorubas are dialectal variations).

(c) ‘Adimula’ — amongst many other titles.

That’s the education you’ve been requesting. I didn’t oblige because it is irrelevant to the actual classes I was taking you on at the moment.

(3) (a) The Benin custom of Yoruba tribal marks was received by M. Crowder as pertaining to coronation.

You must therefore first present the Benin bronzes which depict a time of an oba’s coronation.

(b) Moreover, the Benin custom of Yoruba tribal mark was received by M. Crowder as a non-permanent one drawn by chalk.

You must therefore first argue for the linguistic and metaphysical equivalence of chalk and razor.

Firstly, you said foreigners visited the aworis in 1472. Where is the documented proof to back up your claims? You haven't made any point until you back it up with proof. The itsekiris are not on Yoruba land, they migrated to the edoid land, so get that straight. Foreigners met the itsekiris on edoid land, besides the itsekiris are a mixture of different tribes, (Yoruba, Benin and igala). The Yorubas alone have no claim on Itsekiri even though there forefathers migrated from the south west after mingling with Benin soldiers known as the aonis. If you don't know this part of history. I can easily educate you.

Secondly, how does "oghone" or "owoni" relate to Ooni? They don't even sound alike. Fabricators are fully active here . The only thing you Yorubas know how to do is twist and fabricate the meanings of names.

Oghene was not gotten from Oghone or whatever name you call it. The Oghene the Benins are familiar with was located around Niger benue confluence and not in ile-Ife. The Obas of Benin have never regarded any Ooni of ile-Ife as the "Oghene".. so get that straight. It is quite obvious because the whole world can see the Oba of Benin has no such respect for the Ooni of Ife talk less of classifying him as the "oghene". It's quite laughable. In his inauguration speech, the Oba of Benin told your so called Oghene (ooni) right to his face that Ekalederan also known as Oduduwa was the son of ogiso owodo. So this matter is settled as far as Benins are concerned

This article regarding chalk being used to draw a tribal mark on the oba face, what date was it published? Revionist at work, if it was not published before 1897, just forget it. It's not worth debating. You said the publisher got such claims from crowder, where is this crowder from, if he is British I'm sure you are aware that the brits would do anything to take power away from the Benin kingdoms and hand it over to their neighbours.

As you can see, I replied you quite plainly without adding abuses or rude remarks. Learn to do this as well because people will take you more serious when you start presenting your claims in a descent manner. Cheers!

babtoundey:


E gba mi o, this meatball is equating the angel of the Abrahamic religion to the angel of the Benin/African cosmology. Which of the Benin/Edo traditional religions affirms the existence of angels in Bible and Qur'an.

You're daft and you refused to admit it. Celestial angel ko, Catholic angel ni.
Giving an accurate meaning to the word oba has always been a big deal for all you.
There were times you all said oba means king. When you were dragged, you said it's equivalent to "it is shining". You later made a U-turn to say it means "it's red". Now, it is celestial shinning/angel. What meaning will you give to it tomorrow? You all are bunch of jokers.

Oba connotes king and it is purely a Yoruba word. This is how the word is derived
o ba - "O"is a second person pronoun while "ba" is a verb which connotes perches, dominates, oversees, or rules. so the word oba means he who perches over/dominate/rules/has authority over something.

Ask another Yoruba person he will give the same meaning.

With time, your lots will come around to tell us "ogun", "sango", "olokun", "ogboni" in Edo language have different meanings with the ones in Yoruba language.

celestial shining.. What can be more ludicrous!

Oga stop crying, you sound childish. Oba in Benin means two things and it's clearly stated in its lexicon. It either means "shinning light" or "red".. most people ask for more details about the "shinning light" and that is why I broke it down and said it can also be ascribed as "celestial or devine". It's left for you to understand that simple definition or you can keep on ranting on such inconsequential details. If angels in Yoruba land have dark dimmed light around them that's your own problem. Other religions and traditions depicts them as otherwise. So get a grip of yourself and move on with life .

I told you earlier that Edoid dialect is different from yoruboid dialect. The sooner you let this sink in the better for you mate. The word "Oba" has a different meaning for both ethnic groups.

TAO11:


Anyways, to keep my free education program to Bini dullards going:

Bishop Adjai Crowther was NOT a Muslim, neither was J. O. George, neither was Pa Moses Lijadu, neither was Rev. S. Johnson, et al., nor did Sultan Bello live beyond 1837 (let alone up to the 1890s).

We are now finally getting closer to the truth. Which of the names you mentioned above wrote their history of Oduduwa being an actual person earlier than 1800s. Which of their narrative of Oduduwa fairytales is earlier than 1800s.

So far we have gone through 1400s, 1500s, 1600, 1700 without Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being mentioned in either Benin or Yoruba history. We are now in the 1800s when the fairytale was actually fabricated.

You have just proved my point unless you can show us evidence of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being mentioned in any historical context of being actual human beings other than gods earlier than 1800s.

Show us anything in the 1799 and earlier, why is this so difficult for you to do. You just told us Oranmiyan and Oduduwa flourished a 1000 years earlier and despite the fact that 500 years of the first 800 years was documented, you still can't show us concrete evidence.

I wonder what your Igbo supporters will think about all these your lies.

Stay focused on the topic, we are not discussing Benin/Onitsha relationship or Obas of Benin but when Oduduwa story was created.

TAO11 show us evidence not unconnected gibberish.

samuk:


I finally triggered something in you, keep the lies coming, I will be looking out for when Oduduwa and Oranmiyan finally came into your story as historical persons.

You have given us citations from the 1400s and 1500s, no Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife mentioned yet. Maybe you should try 1600s, 1700s and 1800s. Please tell us when Oduduwa as a historical person came into Yoruba history, this shouldn't be too difficult.

It's easy to tell fairytales but very difficult to defend them with evidence.

You told us aworis settlement was visited in 1472, Ijebu in 1508 and Benin in 1480, I still don't see were Oduduwa was mentioned in these various visits by the Europeans or where those that was visited told the Europeans about Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

Until you can prove me wrong with evidence, the Oduduwa story of being a person other than a myth was created in the 1800s. Please refute it if you can.

You must be deluding yourself by giving us unrelated references to the topic and then tell us Oduduwa ruled Ife under a different name, what year was that, who wrote it down and what year did Benin Oghene metamorphosed into Oduduwa?

Yoruba can't back up Ife and Oduduwa story without looking for unrelated names in Benin history to twist, first you told us Ogane that was mentioned in Benin history was Ife, now you are telling us that Benin Oghene was Oduduwa, yoruba also have to rely on Benin to date Oduduwa to the 1100s. Without Benin history your Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife fallacy is dead on arrival.

You keep referencing and misrepresenting Benin history to back up your Oduduwa fairytales.

Please give us references from Yoruba historical sources earlier than 1800s to back your fabricated Oduduwa up. You can't come here to be using Benin history to defend your Oduduwa story and when the Oba of Benin says he was a Benin prince, you are full of insults.

You have nothing to back your Oduduwa story earlier than 1800s, the Benin you rely on are telling you that he was a Benin prince, you are trying to select the narrative that suits your bigotry.

As for your other minions, I have no time to waste on them. They have nothing but insults to offer.

Nice one Sam... Benin Oghene is completely different from the Yoruba Ooni. What the yorubas have done is take parts of the Benin history and claimed it as theirs. It shows how desperate they are to be part of Benin kingdoms history.

Fezz:


Nice one Sam... Benin Oghene is completely different from the Yoruba Ooni. What the yorubas have done is take parts of the Benin history and claimed it as theirs. It shows how desperate they are to be part of Benin kingdoms history.

Yoruba eyewitness written history began proper in 1826. This was the year the Alaafin received his first European visitor who started documenting the hinterland of Yoruba. Benin eyewitness documentation was already 400 years old by this time. To catch up with the Benins they came up with the Benin/Ife connection.

They went through Benin historical archives and started distorting it by misrepresenting names that have nothing to with Ife and Oduduwa as being Ife and Oduduwa.

Whenever you are debating them on Oduduwa they keep going into their distorted Benin historical archives to support their lies.

Show us Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Yorubas history before 1800s, they cannot provide us any evidence of Yoruba history of Oduduwa before the 1800.

TAO11:


—————
In sum, @Samuk the laughing stock wants to see EUrOpEaN writings (on Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, et al.) from a period when EUrOpEaNs had not yet visited.

This is laughable.. you just stated not long ago that the Europeans visited the awories and ijebus in 1472 and 1500's. The story of oranmiyan would have easily been recorded by the Europeans if they truly visited yorubaland in this era. You keep on shooting yourself on the foot. Oranmiyan left the Benin shores around 1170 and was ruling oyo in 1200AD. So you can see it's around the same time line as your so called Europeans visited the awories . If the Europeans didn't write down the ancestorial history of the "so called" yorubas at that time, please tell us what would have been more important for them to write about ? This is becoming really laughable.

samuk:


Yoruba eyewitness written history began proper in 1826. This was the year the Alaafin received his first European visitor who started documenting the hinterland of Yoruba. Benin eyewitness documentation was already 400 years old by this time. To catch up with the Benins they came up with the Benin/Ife connection.

They went through Benin historical archives and started distorting it by misrepresenting names that have nothing to with Ife and Oduduwa as being Ife and Oduduwa.

Whenever you are debating them on Oduduwa they keep going into their distorted Benin historical archives to support their lies.

Show us Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Yorubas history before 1800s, they cannot provide us any evidence of Yoruba history of Oduduwa before the 1800.

I'm well aware of this.. I know their tricks and I laugh all the time when I see them stealing Benin history. It's laughable but at the same time quite sad. How can a bunch of people be so desperate to fabricate history. It is fun to watch though. It just shows how important the Benins are to certain ethnic groups.

Fezz:


This is laughable.. you just stated not long ago that the Europeans visited the awories and ijebus in 1472 and 1500's. The story of oranmiyan would have easily been recorded by the Europeans if they truly visited yorubaland in this era. You keep on shooting yourself on the foot. Oranmiyan left the Benin shores around 1170 and was ruling oyo in 1200AD. So you can see it's around the same time line as your so called Europeans visited the awories . If the Europeans didn't write down the ancestorial history of the "so called" yorubas at that time, please tell us what would have been more important for them to write about ? This is becoming really laughable.

Also don't forget that Benin who was supposed to be related to the Yoruba through Oduduwa was visited repeatedly since 1400s and by 1600s the catholic church had a permanent mission with priests in Benin city who documented all aspects of Benin lives yet Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were never mentioned.

If she is arguing that Yoruba history wasn't sufficiently documented, what about Benin history?

There in no mention of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in either Benin or Yoruba history as being humans that actually lived before 1800s.

The best you can get before the 1800s is Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being legends and unsubstantiated myths.

Fezz:


I'm well aware of this.. I know their tricks and I laugh all the time when I see them stealing Benin history. It's laughable but at the same time quite sad. How can a bunch of people be so desperate to fabricate history. It is fun to watch though. It just shows how important the Benins are to certain ethnic groups.

Benin history is very important to every tribes in southern Nigeria that is why Yoruba is trying to steal it by all means. Benin is the historical calendar by which other tribes dates their history.

If Oduduwa and Oranmiyan existed beyond myths and legends, only the Benin and Oba of Benin have the authentic history. If Yoruba want to share from our glorious past, they are welcome but unacceptable for them to try to steal it.

This is what Yoruba historical greats recorded about the Ooni in late 1800s and early 1900s.

in his book The History of the Yorubas Samuel Johnson wrote that the Ooni of Ife was a descendant of a mere shrine keeper, rather than real royalty (a myth which had actually been prevalent in other parts of Yorubaland even before Johnson wrote his book.

The historian Robin Law cites other instances of this myth about the Ooni of Ife being some kind of shrine keeper or non-royalty existing in other parts of Yorubaland dating from before and after Johnson's book was published).

The Ooni was nothing but a chief priest or babalawo before his political elevation.

TAO11:
Their own Bini word for “child” is “oʋi”.

—————
NB: Their consonant “ʋ” is a voiced bilabial fricative.

It is usually transcribed as “vb”, such that “oʋi” (i.e. “child”) is written as “ovbi”.

Cheers!

Cc: babtoundey

tkank you

samuk:
[s]We are now finally getting closer to the truth. Which of the names you mentioned above wrote their history of Oduduwa being an actual person earlier than 1800s. Which of their narrative of Oduduwa fairytales is earlier than 1800s.

So far we have gone through 1400s, 1500s, 1600, 1700 without Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being mentioned in either Benin or Yoruba history. We are now in the 1800s when the fairytale was actually fabricated.

You have just proved my point unless you can show us evidence of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being mentioned in any historical context of being actual human beings other than gods earlier than 1800s.

Show us anything in the 1799 and earlier, why is this so difficult for you to do. You just told us Oranmiyan and Oduduwa flourished a 1000 years earlier and despite the fact that 500 years of the first 800 years was documented, you still can't show us concrete evidence.

I wonder what your Igbo supporters will think about all these your lies.

Stay focused on the topic, we are not discussing Benin/Onitsha relationship or Obas of Benin but when Oduduwa story was created.

TAO11 show us evidence not unconnected gibberish.[/s]

LMAO! You realized, at the outset of typing this comment, that it was already debunked by my very comment which you’re directing it at.

In order to then hide your idiocy and appear less dumb, you resorted to deleting more than 86% of the total wordings of my comment — because the whole package clearly debunks your reply.

You left only the following highlighted thirteen percent (13%) — without any context —as embedded below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13510916_ac3a92b36ae74c668ec2585355723652_jpeg_jpegd9b3c9eeee2ac4e2bc57b30b93cb0704

In order to continue to disgrace you as always, and also to give a clarity of context, the embedded images below shows my full comment of which you deleted more than 86% from your “Quote”:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13510920_95e5d79ba31e44cc9fe19b8df0fffc67_jpeg_jpegd9bcc6ddb6138f510f48aed3c405b984

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13510918_72dce086b9ed4694b46e78c4881d7287_jpeg_jpegc80e6fddc47e1e62fe5735ffe430a53c

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13510917_9cc519a5f64e4e77adab32f9d4ea6f0f_jpeg_jpeg6bcf9cccb15ea7b5829dfeeb147329d0

Having re-debunked your repetition, now also find attached the preceding comment to the above one for a gentle reminder, and an even fuller context of the devastating refutation. Also, you are yet to say a word in response to this attached comment.

Cheers.

Fezz:
[s]Firstly, you said foreigners visited the aworis in 1472. Where is the documented proof to back up your claims? You haven't made any point until you back it up with proof.[/s]

Oh really?? Are you pretending to be dumb or are you truly unaware that Rui de Sequeira visited the Aworis’ settlement and noted the area as “Lago de Curamo”?? Please reply to this particular question.

[s]The itsekiris are not on Yoruba land, they migrated to the edoid land, so get that straight.[/s]

Wonderful! So, they migrated there, kicked out the initial occupants, and then took over the land now known as Itsekiri land??

Wait! Did Binis originally migrate to their present area, or did their first ancestors grow out from the soil of their present area, or did they drop from the sky into the area?? I’m super curious now because of your dumb comment.

[s]Foreigners met the itsekiris on edoid land, besides the itsekiris are a mixture of different tribes, (Yoruba, Benin and igala). The Yorubas alone have no claim on Itsekiri even though there forefathers migrated from the south west after mingling with Benin soldiers known as the aonis. If you don't know this part of history. I can easily educate you.[/s]

First of all, there is no authentic evidence that Bini or Benin was ever called by any names other than Beny (and its different variations), or Ado, or Edo (and its different variations).

Secondly, the Itsekiris insist that they are Yorubas. So, why should I ignore their own testimony of their own selves, and go with what you deludedly wish? Please change my mind.

Thirdly: So, the fact that Itsekiris hosted other people on their land means that the Itsekiris are no longer Yorubas. Isn’t God wonderful?

[s]Secondly, how does "oghone" or "owoni" relate to Ooni? They don't even sound alike. Fabricators are fully active here . The only thing you Yorubas know how to do is twist and fabricate the meanings of names.[/s]

Go read up on the linguistic term called “fricative” before I may have a discussion with you on this.

I doubt that you will because the word “read” always scares the soul out of most Binis.

But if you will read it up by some miracle, then below is one living example of a “fricative,” and its evolution in modern Yoruba language:

The Yoruba city of “Ọ̀wọ̀” is sometimes, even till date, still remembered, written, and pronounced as “Ọ̀ghọ̀” which is its more ancient articulation.

Having said that, I have once stumbled upon an historical material written in the 1800s, which (while discussing IFE) referred in passing to its king by the title Ọwọ̀ni* rather than the present evolved form “Ọọ̀ni” by which the same king is referred to throughout the same material.

* This is clearly an intermediate form which has evolved from the more archaic and fricativized form, viz. “Ọghọ̀nẹ”.

••• --> Ọghọ̀nẹ --> Ọwọ̀ni --> Ọọ̀ni --> •••

[s]Oghene was not gotten from Oghone or whatever name you call it. The Oghene the Benins are familiar with was located around Niger benue confluence and not in ile-Ife. The Obas of Benin have never regarded any Ooni of ile-Ife as the "Oghene".. so get that straight.[/s]

From my comment above, it is as clear as day that there is zero need to go out of Yoruba sources (to Benin sources) in order to arrive at the more archaic articulation of the word “Ooni”.

Having said that, my attached screenshots below only proves that the greatest known liar that ever sat on the Benin throne (i.e. Omon’Oba Erediauwa) could not help but to agree with the Yorubas on this. He thus admitted that the “Oghene” in Benin usage refers to the Ooni of Ile-Ife, not in the Niger-Benue confluence.

[s]It is quite obvious because the whole world can see the Oba of Benin has no such respect for the Ooni of Ife talk less of classifying him as the "oghene". It's quite laughable.[/s]

See attached screenshots again.

[s]In his inauguration speech, the Oba of Benin told your so called Oghene (ooni) right to his face that Ekalederan also known as Oduduwa was the son of ogiso owodo. So this matter is settled as far as Benins are concerned [/s]

And the Ooni rushed to the stage, snatched his mic from him, disrupted the party, and called him out as a liar. Didn’t he? /s

Wasn’t that how the Ooni reacted when your Oba was on the inherited (from his own father) lying spree?

Well, your Oba subsequently visited the Ooni at his palace in Ife for the usual homage. Guess what went down.

Your Oba again narrated the Oranmiyan/Oduduwa story (while he sat almost next to the Ooni). As is to be expected, he dared not open his mouth to narrate the iZoDuWa fabrication.

This time, he skillfully fled from that falsehood when he got to that point in the course of his narration at the Ooni’s palace.

[s]This article regarding chalk being used to draw a tribal mark on the oba face, what date was it published? Revionist at work, if it was not published before 1897, just forget it. It's not worth debating. You said the publisher got such claims from crowder, where is this crowder from, if he is British I'm sure you are aware that the brits would do anything to take power away from the Benin kingdoms and hand it over to their neighbours.[/s]

Can we see the proof of how the relevant human beings (i.e. the historians) regarded this particular received account as the product of a fraudulent revision?? Thank you.

[s]As you can see, I replied you quite plainly without adding abuses or rude remarks. Learn to do this as well because people will take you more serious when you start presenting your claims in a descent manner. Cheers![/s]

In case you perceive anything as insult (if at all there is any), you may please kindly ignore it and focus your energy on addressing my refutation of your debunked heap of dog shit.

Fezz:
[s]This is laughable.. you just stated not long ago that the Europeans visited the awories and ijebus in 1472 and 1500's. The story of oranmiyan would have easily been recorded by the Europeans if they truly visited yorubaland in this era. You keep on shooting yourself on the foot.[/s]

This one’s brain, like I said earlier, came in as fairly used.

You know what, you have to make up your mind first if Oranmiyan is a real human being or not. So which do you go with??

tHe sTory of Mr. IdU, iGoDo, eWEkA-1, eWuAre-1, eSiGiE, et al. wOuLd hAvE eAsILy bEeN rECorDEd bY ThE eUrOpeAns iF tHey tRuLy ViSiTeD BeNiN iN tHiS eRa. YoU kEeP oN sHoOTiNg yOuRsELf iN tHe fOoT.

[s]Oranmiyan left the Benin shores around 1170 and was ruling oyo in 1200AD.[/s]

Oh really? I’m curious to see where Oranmiyan or any of his contemporaries talked about these dates. Lol.

[s]So you can see it's around the same time line as your so called Europeans visited the awories .[/s]

I never knew until now that two different periods of about 3.5 centuries apart are considered to mean roughly the same period by Binis. Wonderful! Who raised these Bini folks?

[s]the Europeans didn't write down the ancestorial history of the "so called" yorubas at that time, please tell us what would have been more important for them to write about ? This is becoming really laughable.[/s]

tHe eUrOpeAns DiDn’T wRiTe dOwN tHe aNcEnStRaL hiStOrY of tHe sO-cALLeD BiNis aT tHe tiMe, pLeAse tELL uS wHat wOuLd hAve bEeN mOre iMpOrTaNt fOr tHeM tO wRiTe aBoUt ? tHiS iS bEcOmiNG rEaLlY LaUgHaBLe.

Nothing was written by them about Mr. Idu (Lol), or Ogiso Igodo, or Eweka-1, or Ewuare-1, or Esigie, among tens of other Benin ancestors. Why?

Is common sense and consistency a real thing in your kingdom?? I doubt it is.

samuk:


Also don't forget that Benin who was supposed to be related to the Yoruba through Oduduwa was visited repeatedly since 1400s and by 1600s the catholic church had a permanent mission with priests in Benin city who documented all aspects of Benin lives yet Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were never mentioned.

If she is arguing that Yoruba history wasn't sufficiently documented, what about Benin history?

There in no mention of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in either Benin or Yoruba history as being humans that actually lived before 1800s.

The best you can get before the 1800s is Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being legends and unsubstantiated myths.

You are right on target Sam. There is a very high possibility that Oduduwa etc are all myths, but due to the "politics of history" involved at the moment, we are still going to win the yorubas on this debate because the Benins have well documented history to our advantage. You are right, the yorubas will always rely on our history because ours is properly dated and well accounted for.

Fezz:
You are right on target Sam. There is a very high possibility that Oduduwa etc are all myths, but due to the "politics of history" involved at the moment, we are still going to win the yorubas on this debate because the Benins have well documented history to our advantage. You are right, the yorubas will always rely on our history because ours is properly dated and well accounted for.

LMAO!

Eweka I, Uwuakhuahen, Henmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare-1, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua-1, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende.

Does each of the above-listed names refer to fictional characters, aka “mYtHs” ??

If “NO” why?

Perhaps you will learn and grow.

TAO11:
Their own Bini word for “child” is “oʋi”.

—————
NB: Their consonant “ʋ” is a voiced bilabial fricative.

It is usually transcribed as “vb”, such that “oʋi” (i.e. “child”) is written as “ovbi”.

Cheers!

Cc: babtoundey

We have so many word for child this is one example


Ovbi, owokan, omo

samuk:
This is what Yoruba historical greats recorded about the Ooni in late 1800s and early 1900s.

in his book The History of the Yorubas Samuel Johnson wrote that the Ooni of Ife was a descendant of a mere shrine keeper, rather than real royalty (a myth which had actually been prevalent in other parts of Yorubaland even before Johnson wrote his book.

The historian Robin Law cites other instances of this myth about the Ooni of Ife being some kind of shrine keeper or non-royalty existing in other parts of Yorubaland dating from before and after Johnson's book was published).

The Ooni was nothing but a chief priest or babalawo before his political elevation.

Nowadays, I don’t really have to bother debunking @samuk the laughing stock.

You are so weak, dumb and empty-headed that you’ve lately been debunking yourself (on my behalf) due to fidgeting caused by the terror of Tao. LMAO!

All I have to do now is color/bolden your own words in order to highlight the contradiction/self-refutation.

The fear of Tao seems to be the beginning of wisdom.

https://www.nairaland.com/6314603/oni-chief-priest/4#97333126

TAO11:
LMAO!

Eweka I, Uwuakhuahen, Henmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare-1, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua-1, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende.

Does each of the above-listed names refer to fictional characters, aka “mYtHs” ??

If “NO” why?

Perhaps you will learn and grow.

I keep beating you at this everytime dont you get tired

I left politics thread longtime again away from paid political zombies and tribal bigot thinking
Culture thread another thing i like and thought it would be more interesting to talk on, and there people like you resides lieing machines

I will see be leaving culture thread from you lots fully back to politics and fucking be cuting those political zombie heads when i arrive

I have done enough good on culture

samuk:
This is what Yoruba historical greats recorded about the Ooni in late 1800s and early 1900s.

in his book The History of the Yorubas Samuel Johnson wrote that the Ooni of Ife was a descendant of a mere shrine keeper, rather than real royalty (a myth which had actually been prevalent in other parts of Yorubaland even before Johnson wrote his book.

The historian Robin Law cites other instances of this myth about the Ooni of Ife being some kind of shrine keeper or non-royalty existing in other parts of Yorubaland dating from before and after Johnson's book was published).

The Ooni was nothing but a chief priest or babalawo before his political elevation.

It is well known that there was a pregnant woman who was meant to be sacrificed to the Yoruba gods for roaming the streets during a particular festival. Her life was spared because she was pregnant and she was told to dedicate her unborn child to serve the yoruba gods. She eventually gave birth and dedicated her child to serve the Yoruba gods. This child later became the chief priest that worked under oduduwa. His job was to fetch herbs and look after the shrine when oduduwa was busy doing other things. This child was named "Ooni". This was the first time the name "Ooni" was used on Yoruba land... But just take a look at these disgraceful fabricators on nairaland claiming that Ooni was derived from Oghone, presumed to be the same person as Oghene. Just imagine the concoction of fables put together by the Yoruba revionists. This is a shame. Lol

gregyboy:


Cowards, who will leave tao11 head in the battle field if the debate gets heated up


Afonjaristic babaric skull miners

I leave because I see no need to reinforce an already overwhelming force against you. Tell me, when have you all half men from Benin ever won against her? She whoop your asses always and you want more people to join in bullying you.

So you deemed yourself as a worthy opponent? What a clown you are!

Fezz:


Oga stop crying, you sound childish. Oba in Benin means two things and it's clearly stated in its lexicon. It either means "shinning light" or "red".. most people ask for more details about the "shinning light" and that is why I broke it down and said it can also be ascribed as "celestial or devine". It's left for you to understand that simple definition or you can keep on ranting on such inconsequential details. If angels in Yoruba land have dark dimmed light around them that's your own problem. Other religions and traditions depicts them as otherwise. So get a grip of yourself and move on with life .

I told you earlier that Edoid dialect is different from yoruboid dialect. The sooner you let this sink in the better for you mate. The word "Oba" has a different meaning for both ethnic groups.

You are slow.. That's an indisputable fact. What Benin/Edo cosmology explains, supports or or affirms the existence of angels. What tells you there is ever one celestial angel that shines? Do you grab how stupid you sound?

This is not a case of dialectical variations, it is clear case of borrowed words (Which now you intend to steal with your useless illogical "it is red/it is shining/celestial angel" narratives).

When you are done carving absurd meanings for the word oba to alienate it from its original source and meaning, try and do same for other words like Iyaoba, ogun, olokun, yeepa, sango, omo, iya and other words you attained through the influence of oranmiyan and Ife. Celestial shinning... Your stupidity is first grade.