₦airaland Forum

Lazynigerian1:
Okay



You did not read my comment......go and read it again. Slowly.



China is also an economy that relies heavily on industrial exports, a higher tax to gdp ratio, and as a result has a much higher revenue than Nigeria which relies on oil...so they can afford protectionist whatever

Besides..petrol in china costs 459 naira per liter .



Fixing the refienreis is not the problem...making sure they earn enough of a profit to stay well fixed...and to also build new ones, and expand exisiting ones...is the problem...and is why subsidy must go.

Brother once again I repeat stop spouting this falsehood that refineries cannot be profitable without subsidies

Refineries only need to be offered crude at low enough cost for them to be able to sell at a decent enough rate to make a margin.

Who defines the cost of crude oil that they will use in producing? Government and they do not need to sell to domestic refineries at international rates for these refineries to not only stay afloat but remain profitable.

In fact imagine the amount of Forex spent daily on importation of fuel. With the deregulation of the naira, this will only further worsen the balance of payments position of the country and all the attendant inflationary tendencies to boot.

Then you want to first remove subsidy before fixing the refineries when you know that petrol is the lifeblood of the economy?

Kuku kill us all!

Modified....

Speaking about tax to GDP ratio.... Some time back government was talking about broadening the revenue base of the country... Vat was increased, stamp duty also, customs was revamped....

What happened to all those efforts?

Why are we not talking firstly about reducing cost of governance to the barest minimum which will definitely have less negative impact on the livelihood of the citizenry than a removal of subsidies? What was the impact the last set of palliatives had on Nigerians when fuel price was increased to 145?

Why are states not focused on increasing their revenue sources instead of waiting all the time on federal allocation and bailouts?

Why are we not looking at these instead of subsidies

You mentioned the nominal cost of fuel in China... Why not mention the cost of fuel in China relative to its per capital income and then compare same to Nigeria and then ask yourself what any responsible government would do in such a situation knowing the impact it would have on its citizens...

Lazynigerian1:
At the end of the day oil subsidy has to go

The falling oil price means there is no cash to.subsidse crude.

And NNPC is tired of running at a loss to subsidise fuel

Either oil subsidy goes or we keep begging imf for more loans

MODIFIED

With all respect, anyone who wishes to understand why I support subsidy removal should read about why sbsides are bad for a country first.

There is a reason why I support subsidy removal, and it has nothing to do with poltics or with my wishing Nigerians suffer.

MODIFIED 2

By the way, I am FULLY AWARE OF THE PAINS THAT NIGERIANS WILL GO THROUGH IF SUBSIDY IS REMOVED TOTALLY

BUT IF WE KEEP THE SUBSIDY WE WILL SPEND MORE AND MORE OF OUR REVENUE SUBSDISING FUEL...WHILE WE TAKE LOANS TO PAY FOR EVERYHTING ELSE...AND THE LOANS ARE NOT ENOUGH

as for recovering loot....what do we do when the recovered loot gets finished.

I HATE THE IDEA OF SUBSIDY REMOVAL...BUT IT IS EITHER WE DO IT NOW...OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUERINCES OF NOT DOING IT LATER.

You no get conscience; average Nigerian can no longer afford 3 square meal and here you are supporting a 300% increment of petrol. Most it always be the people that will suffer? Why are their remedies always have to plunge the poor deeper into poverty? Who are the ones that messed up the economy with endless stealing, looting and misappropriation of funds? I will tell you this, 300% increment means genocide that is if you know how badly the cost of food and transportation will sky rocket. All you rich folks never care for the common man.

toothless NLC, they will increase it nothing u guys can do. youth should 4get NLC nothing good has come out 4rm this union. Another protest loading.......

Agbegbaorogboye:
You people with your terribly pitiable English self.
I don't know who is opening NL accounts for you.

you too,listen to urself......'...I don't know who is opening Nairaland for you'

Did you call that grammar or blunder?

Abuolododo93:
you too,listen to urself......'...I don't know who is opening Nairaland for you'

Did you call that grammar or blunder?

so,NL is now a bottle?

codecoded:
You no get conscience; average Nigerian can no longer afford 3 square meal and here you are supporting a 300% increment of petrol. Most it always be the people that will suffer? Why are their remedies always have to plunge the poor deeper into poverty? Who are the ones that messed up the economy with endless stealing, looting and misappropriation of funds? I will tell you this, 300% increment means genocide that is if you know how badly the cost of food and transportation will sky rocket. All you rich folks never care for the common man.

I wonder why all of you responding to me have to abuse me as if I am in government.

I have a conscience...and I know all of what you speak. I also know that if we keep the subsides on petrol, it would force us into more debt and future economic crisis...plus it would also not allow us to have enough refininerieis at home, and more jobs as a consequence.

Here is something about life....hard decisions have to be made atimes. We are being forced to make a decision that we have put off since the 1990's. If we had made that decision back then, we would be reaping the benefits today

So don't act like I don't have a conscience. I do. I know. IT BREAKS MY HEART THAT WE HAVE TO DO THIS. I wish there was another way. Lord knows I wish there was....

Abuolododo93:
you too,listen to urself......'...I don't know who is opening Nairaland for you'

Did Do you call that grammar or blunder?

Abu olodo
I wrote what I wrote. You read what you read.

[quote author=Lazynigerian1 post=102152416]I wonder why all of you responding to me have to abuse me as if I am in government.

I have a conscience...and I know all of what you speak. I also know that if we keep the subsides on petrol, it would force us into more debt and future economic crisis...plus it would also not allow us to have enough refininerieis at home, and more jobs as a consequence.

Here is something about life....hard decisions have to be made atimes. We are being forced to make a decision that we have put off since the 1990's. If we had made that decision back then, we would be reaping the benefits today

So don't act like I don't have a conscience. I do. I know. IT BREAKS MY HEART THAT WE HAVE TO DO THIS. I wish there was another way. Lord knows I wish there was....[/qdubai
Well, I'm sorry if I came to you rude. Back to the matter...there are certainly other ways if the Govt is been frank; if they actually love the country as a patroit they claim to be then is the time for them to make the sacrifice and slash a resonson sum from their jumbo check and cover up for subsidy. The economy has always been mismanaged by this same set of people, they keep living way much above even the jumbo check the receive...buying houses in dubai, even their kids becomes sudden billions. But the poor always have to make the sacrifice or "THE ONLY WAY" as you've claimed.
Do you think if transportation from Lagos to abuja becomes #25,000-#30,000 the masses will take it lightly? The Govt are pushing the masses to the wall and it will get to the point when living will become impossible in Nigeria.

An oil producing country where a litre of fuel will be almost same as your daily earning as a minimum wage earner of 35,000 which is even not been obey by some states.

Toothless bulldog..

Nlc should cripple itself first b4 others wil follow,Ayuba Wabba collector of workers egunje

ALL THEY ARE SAYING IS WE WONT AGREE TO THE 300% INCRESE WITHOUT CONSULTATING US WITH GHANA MUST GO THATS THE REAL MESSAGE NLC IS A TOOTHLESS CORRUPT DOG

Lazynigerian1:
Okay



You did not read my comment......go and read it again. Slowly.



China is also an economy that relies heavily on industrial exports, a higher tax to gdp ratio, and as a result has a much higher revenue than Nigeria which relies on oil...so they can afford protectionist whatever

Besides..petrol in china costs 459 naira per liter .



Fixing the refienreis is not the problem...making sure they earn enough of a profit to stay well fixed...and to also build new ones, and expand exisiting ones...is the problem...and is why subsidy must go.

Fixing the refineries is the answer. With functional refineries, there would be no need for importation of fuel. With no importation of fuel, there would be no need to subsidize fuel because we would not be buying at international rates. This will also improve our foreign reserves.

So making our local refineries a priority will put paid to the subsidy problem. I can assure you this will free up all the monies you were referring to for other government programs.

Lazynigerian1:
Go ask your elected leaders about that...I did not support APC or vote for Buhari...and I never will .

As for me, refienreis can only come back if they are allowed to make a profit. If you fix refinereis...and still sell fuel below the production prcie of fuel per liter...there won't be enough profit to keep the refinereis running well...and they will spoil again. Money down the drain.

You are not a supporter of APC but you are defending the undefendable.
When someone take away your food and asked you to endure for some time with the promise of giving you a better one, and failed; will/should you defend such a lier?

Owologbo:
You are not a supporter of APC but you are defending the undefendable.
When someone take away your food and asked you to endure for some time with the promise of giving you a better one, and failed; will/should you defend such a lier?

Well, then don't complain when governments, including this one and the future one keep taking loans, because they have to spend an increasing amount subsiding fuel to keep everyone happy....and at the end of the day, food gets taken away still as a result from you.

Modified: Before you answer me,. read the quote below(sauce)

The Nigerian Institute for Social and Economic Research estimates that the budget for fuel subsidies in 2019 was sufficient to have enrolled the entire population of Nigeria in the National Health Insurance Scheme (NHIS)—a shocking fact in a year where tens of millions of Nigerians are scared in a health crisis with grossly inadequate support and poor health infrastructure. Since 2006, fuel subsidies have taken up over N10 trillion of resources

.

obi58:
Fixing the refineries is the answer. With functional refineries, there would be no need for importation of fuel. With no importation of fuel, there would be no need to subsidize fuel because we would not be buying at international rates. This will also improve our foreign reserves.

So making our local refineries a priority will put paid to the subsidy problem. I can assure you this will free up all the monies you were referring to for other government programs.

Yes, there is nowhere i said that fixing refineries was not important
Plus, once the refineries are fixed, they need constant maintenance, upgrades, expansions, etc...plus we need new refineries.

The money to create all that is going to come from the profits made in removing subsides.

Take GSM. GSM Has never been subsidsied by government at all. They charged high prices, people complained, (and openly called for government to cut prices...and still do)but we paid. At the end they took our profits and built the IT infrastructure that we have that has also created lots of direct and indrect jobs.

Why can't we do the same for oil? YES....prices will go up...BUT....there would be enough profits, and enough investment to keep old refineries running, new ones to be built, more jobs, more revenue, more tax revenue for government...and eventually we can become chief exporters of refined products, instead of importing from other countries.


Plus, most West African countries pay higher at the pump anyways,. And most of them are poorer than we are. Yet they have not collapsed at all. Will we?

I'm leaving this thread with a blast from the past...

According to the Petroleum Product Pricing Regulatory Agency (PPPRA), the landing cost of petrol up to Friday 28 October 2011 was N124.06. This however, excludes the N15.49 margin set aside for transporters and marketers. Comparing the total (N139.55) with the regulated pump price of N65 per litre, will show that there is a subsidy of N74.55 per litre. Given the average daily consumption of 32 million litres which translates into about N870 billion per annum. This in addition to the subsidy on household kerosene adds up to about N1.2 trillion per annum compared to only N240 billion allocated to fuel subsidy in the 2011 budget

SIAUCE

The above is why GEJ wanted to remove subsides. Nigerians said no. The opposition said no. GEJ continued the waste that was subsidy.

Now the oppositon is in power and have seen sense. But Nigerians say no because somehow we are scared. Well, our fear is now costing us N1.2 trillion annually.

Lazynigerian1:
Yes, there is nowhere i said that fixing refineries was not important
Plus, once the refineries are fixed, they need constant maintenance, upgrades, expansions, etc...plus we need new refineries.

The money to create all that is going to come from the profits made in removing subsides.

Take GSM. GSM Has never been subsidsied by government at all. They charged high prices, people complained, (and openly called for government to cut prices...and still do)but we paid. At the end they took our profits and built the IT infrastructure that we have that has also created lots of direct and indrect jobs.

Why can't we do the same for oil? YES....prices will go up...BUT....there would be enough profits, and enough investment to keep old refineries running, new ones to be built, more jobs, more revenue, more tax revenue for government...and eventually we can become chief exporters of refined products, instead of importing from other countries.


Plus, most West African countries pay higher at the pump anyways,. And most of them are poorer than we are. Yet they have not collapsed at all. Will we?

Bro get your head in the game....

Fix the refineries first and then stop importation. Fuel subsidies will die a natural death.

The same thing applies to electricity. We make it look like rocket science yet even neighbouring Benin Republic boasts of uninterrupted power supply. Tariff has been raised several times to encourage private sector participation but has power supply improved? No. Look at what is happening in the Cement industry because of a lack of government intervention. We are leaving everything to demand and supply when a cabal is fixing prices way beyond market forces and no one is calling these conglomerates to order.


Stopping subsidies before fixing the refineries is akin to what happened when government raised tariffs on importation of cars and then when prices of cars skyrocketed they now saw their folly and brought down the rates. Has this had any impact now? No! Cars are still as expensive as ever. Even Nigerian used cars are becoming more unattainable on a daily basis.

How many other West African countries are oil producing states? How many of them refine locally?

The whole economy is already under severe strain from the falling naira and you want to put the cart before the horse and remove subsidy before fixing the refineries?

I asked you what economic impact the last set of palliatives had on the Nigerian economy during the last round of fuel increases. Instead of focusing on stopping importation of fuel like the government did for importation of rice we are hearing that for fuel it's ok but not for rice.

Lazynigerian1:
I'm leaving this thread with a blast from the past...



SIAUCE

The above is why GEJ wanted to remove subsides. Nigerians said no. The opposition said no. GEJ continued the waste that was subsidy.

Now the oppositon is in power and have seen sense. But Nigerians say no because somehow we are scared. Well, our fear is now costing us N1.2 trillion annually.

More reason why the refineries should be fixed post haste to avoid this kind of leakage.

The needful should be done first.

Removing subsidy first is akin to jumping out of a burning plane without a parachute and expecting to survive.

What did you study in university because you are clearly not an economist.

Your understanding of how markets and prices work is at a layman's level at best.

I doubt you even took econs classes in secondary school. A problem we have in this part of the world is that uninformed people think they know everything.


Take our president for instance, he came to power when oil prices were falling, yet he had only 1 trained economist as a minister. To even make matters worse, he fired her on flimsy reasons.


I tried to explain to your previous iteration, lazycapitalist, that although subsidies needed to go, it was more important to raise taxes on the rich as this would stabilize the naira, thus halting the continuous need to pay subsidies, but you have no ability to understand.

You rant up and down only convincing ignorant people that your ideas hold merit.

Please, your views would hasten the collapse of this country. Our elite have already brought us to the brink with their avarice. Spare us your trash views.

Lazynigerian1:
Yes, there is nowhere i said that fixing refineries was not important
Plus, once the refineries are fixed, they need constant maintenance, upgrades, expansions, etc...plus we need new refineries.

The money to create all that is going to come from the profits made in removing subsides.

Take GSM. GSM Has never been subsidsied by government at all. They charged high prices, people complained, (and openly called for government to cut prices...and still do)but we paid. At the end they took our profits and built the IT infrastructure that we have that has also created lots of direct and indrect jobs.

Why can't we do the same for oil? YES....prices will go up...BUT....there would be enough profits, and enough investment to keep old refineries running, new ones to be built, more jobs, more revenue, more tax revenue for government...and eventually we can become chief exporters of refined products, instead of importing from other countries.


Plus, most West African countries pay higher at the pump anyways,. And most of them are poorer than we are. Yet they have not collapsed at all. Will we?

Lazynigerian1:
Well, then don't complain when governments, including this one and the future one keep taking loans, because they have to spend an increasing amount subsiding fuel to keep everyone happy....and at the end of the day, food gets taken away still as a result from you.

Modified: Before you answer me,. read the quote below(sauce)

.

I'm the money they are looting is more than the one been spend on subsidy (even as they loot through the subsidy?

Yes, there is nowhere i said that fixing refineries was not important
Plus, once the refineries are fixed, they need constant maintenance, upgrades, expansions, etc...plus we need new refineries.

The money to create all that is going to come from the profits made in removing subsides.

Take GSM. GSM Has never been subsidsied by government at all. They charged high prices, people complained, (and openly called for government to cut prices...and still do)but we paid. At the end they took our profits and built the IT infrastructure that we have that has also created lots of direct and indrect jobs.

Why can't we do the same for oil? YES....prices will go up...BUT....there would be enough profits, and enough investment to keep old refineries running, new ones to be built, more jobs, more revenue, more tax revenue for government...and eventually we can become chief exporters of refined products, instead of importing from other countries.


Plus, most West African countries pay higher at the pump anyways,. And most of them are poorer than we are. Yet they have not collapsed at all. Will we?

Why is it better to focus on local production of rice compared to importation of rice?