budaatum:
The title of the thread was "Sonm Schools buda", or something of the like, but his silly attitude and inability to answer simple questions made me change it to what it currently is because it is more accurate.

Gotcha and I am with you now then

budaatum:
And the above is untrue! Eve's reason for eating the fruit was simply because she did not believe what Adam had told her and she rightly wanted to test for herself if it was true that she would die or not, which is why I give credit to Sonm for eating it too, though it contradicts his "obey the Torah"!

I beg to differ, because going by the evidence and by Eve's own self admission, she clearly revealed her reasons for plucking the fruit, eat it and pass rest on to her husband Adam.

If I am going to be straight and honest with you, I figured that the telling and meaningful name of the tree, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, was what confused and compelled Eve to partly have that strong desire to eat of it

BassReeves:
Gotcha and I am with you now then

I beg to differ, because going by the evidence and by Eve's own self admission, she clearly revealed her reasons for plucking the fruit, eat it and pass rest on to her husband Adam.

Please BassReeves, I am buda. If a thing is as clear as you claim, I have immense faith that you will place it before me to see for myself, so please show me Eve's "clearly revealed reason" so I may see it for myself.

BassReeves:

If I am going to be straight and honest with you, I figured that the telling and meaningful name of the tree, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, was what confused and compelled Eve to partly have that strong desire to eat of it

You are saying something here Bass, and I would like you to "be straight and honest" and follow through.

If you were in the Garden of Eden would you be like Adam and not eat of the fruit of a tree called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil because you believe that on the day that you eat it you will surely die? Or will you be like Eve and pluck of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and eat to find out if you will surely die or not on the day that you eat it?

budaatum:
Please BassReeves, I am buda. If a thing is as clear as you claim, I have immense faith that you will place it before me to see for myself, so please show me Eve's "clearly revealed reason" so I may see it for myself.

Genesis 3:6
'And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food,
and that it was delightful to look at, and a tree to be desired in order to make one wise and insightful,
she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.'

Genesis 3:6
'When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food
and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.
She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.'

Genesis 3:6
'The woman was convinced. She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious,
and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it.
Then she gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it, too.'[/i]'

She clearly is saying she wanted the experience, knowledge and/or even wisdom eating from the the tree, the fruit would give her

budaatum:
You are saying something here Bass, and I would like you to "be straight and honest" and follow through.

If you were in the Garden of Eden would you be like Adam and not eat of the fruit of a tree called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil because you believe that on the day that you eat it you will surely die? Or will you be like Eve and pluck of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and eat to find out if you will surely die or not on the day that you eat it?

budaatum, you've heard the saying: We are our worst enemy. Our enemy, is the, inner me.

If tbh with you I cant possibly give you a definite answer except for if I am living the exact moment.

BassReeves:
Genesis 3:6
'And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food,
and that it was delightful to look at, and a tree to be desired in order to make one wise and insightful,
she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband with her, and he ate.'

Genesis 3:6
'When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food
and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.
She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.'

Genesis 3:6
'The woman was convinced. She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious,
and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it.
Then she gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it, too.'[/i]'

She clearly is saying she wanted the experience, knowledge and/or even wisdom eating from the the tree, the fruit would give her.

"She wanted the experience, knowledge and/or even wisdom eating from the tree the fruit would give her"!

Now, how does that fit in with your previous reasons which were "due to pride, disobedience, thievery, covetousness, narcissism, vanity, self-centredness etc"?

How does "experience, knowledge and/or even wisdom eating from the tree the fruit would give her", correlate with "due to pride, disobedience, thievery, covetousness, narcissism, vanity, self-centredness etc"?

And before you respond, can I implore you to first read this again please.

BassReeves:

budaatum, you've heard the saying: We are our worst enemy. Our enemy, is the, inner me.

If tbh with you I cant possibly give you a definite answer except for if I am living the exact moment.

The first statement is likely more profound than you think. Just think of the enmity between snakes and humans. The second is however you being your worst enemy, as it shows you fear to confront the truth in yourself.

So let me be a serpent and tempt you again because I am certain you can give a definite answer but are just afraid to like sonm initially was.

Bassreeves, If you were in the Garden of Eden would you be like Adam and not eat of the fruit of a tree called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Or will you be like Eve and pluck of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and eat?

Once you have become bold and have answered the question above, the next part is Why would you eat, or Why would you not eat?

budaatum:
"She wanted the experience, knowledge and/or even wisdom eating from the tree the fruit would give her"!

Now, how does that fit in with your previous reasons which were "due to pride, disobedience, thievery, covetousness, narcissism, vanity, self-centredness etc"?

If I should enter your flat without your invitation or permission, went in to refrigerator, help myself to whatever delicacies in there I want to have the experience, knowledge and wisdom of from chomping them, please help me out here, what would be the reason the press, public, passersby etc will give about me? They'll say being lazybones, covetousness, insensitivity, greed, indiscipline, long throat etc are the reason for my bad conduct. Isnt it?

You surely must have heard the saying that: You cant scam nor con a good man or woman, but you feed their greed. It will be because of greed that they will fall for your scam or con. Eve squandered her full potential by prematurely going for the fruit. Watch this budaatum, one of the many plausible reasons Adam took the fruit of Eve and eat was that he thought it was time that the fruit from the tree is to be eaten. How off the mark he found out he was

budaatum:
How does "experience, knowledge and/or even wisdom eating from the tree the fruit would give her", correlate with "due to pride, disobedience, thievery, covetousness, narcissism, vanity, self-centredness etc"?

And before you respond, can I implore you to first read this again please.

I have addressed this above nah

budaatum:
The first statement is likely more profound than you think. Just think of the enmity between snakes and humans

Genesis 3:14
'So the LORD God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and every beast of the field!
On your belly will you go, and dust you will eat, all the days of your life.'

Job 1:7
'“Where have you come from?” the LORD asked Satan.
Satan answered the LORD, “I have been patrolling the earth, watching everything that’s going on.”'

1 Peter 5:8
'Be sober [well balanced and self-disciplined], be alert and cautious at all times.
That enemy of yours, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion [fiercely hungry], seeking someone to devour.'


The gauntlet in Genesis 3:14, was thrown down at the very beginning budaatum, so no surprises about the enmity between both

budaatum:
The second is however you being your worst enemy, as it shows you fear to confront the truth in yourself.

So let me be a serpent and tempt you again because I am certain you can give a definite answer but are just afraid to like sonm initially was.

I must warn you that I dont hold snakes prisoners. I show serpents no mercy.

budaatum:
Bassreeves, If you were in the Garden of Eden would you be like Adam and not eat of the fruit of a tree called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Or will you be like Eve and pluck of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and eat?

Once you have become bold and have answered the question above, the next part is Why would you eat, or Why would you not eat

Please tell me if you are familiar with a prominent character in the Bible, who was told to his face that three times before the cockerel crows, he'll deny knowing ever Jesus Christ, the Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world, but he fervently say nothing of the sort would ever happen that he'll deny Jesus Christ.

I am sure you know who I am talking of, so you would then understand that until I live the moment, it really is immaterial however answer I give you, because no one knows if or not I'll cross the bridge, when I get there mate.

I would like to believe that I wouldnt though, if knowing how I am cut, I'll probably be asking, asking and asking question until I get to a cul de sac and correct answer, even get answer from the horse' mouth directly and not really depend on hearsay nor rely on second or third parties dem says.

BassReeves:
If I should enter your flat without your invitation or permission, went in to refrigerator, help myself to whatever delicacies in there I want to have the experience, knowledge and wisdom of from chomping them, please help me out here, what would be the reason the press, public, passing-bys etc will give about me.

First, Adam and Eve did not enter the Garden of Eden without permission! Second, I am not asking the press or what the press might have told you! Please see here for an understanding that I am asking that you use your own God given brain and mind, if you can.

BassReeves:

You surely must have heard the saying that: You cant scam nor con a good man or woman, but you feed their greed. It will be because of greed that they will fall for your scam or con.

Even if I were to accept the above, which I don't, the question still remains, "greed for what" did Eve have?

Sorry Bass, but we really can not proceed like this. The question posed are simple questions, and I do not really appreciate the attempt to use too much words to avoid answering it, but if and when you do answer, hola at buda please.

BassReeves:

I would like to believe that I wouldnt though, if knowing how I am cut, I'll probably be asking, asking and asking question until I get to a cul de sac and correct answer, even get answer from the horse' mouth directly and not really depend on hearsay nor rely on second or third parties dem says.

Now! Thank you.

You say, "get a correct answer, even get answer from the horse' mouth directly and not really depend on hearsay nor rely on second or third parties dem says".

Could you please tell me how you'd get a "correct answer" if you do eat and test with your own mouth?

Would all other answers barring testing for yourself not be "second or third parties dem says"?

Know that marks will be deducted if you post irrelevants!

budaatum:
First, Adam and Eve did not enter the Garden of Eden without permission! Second, I am not asking the press or what the press might have told you! Please see here for an understanding that I am asking that you use your own God given brain and mind, if you can.

Please help me out here.
1. Was the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil freely given to Adam and Eve to eat from? Yes or No
2. Was the tree clearly out of bounds? Yes or No

budaatum:
Even if I were to accept the above, which I don't, the question still remains, "greed for what" did Eve have?

Selfish desire for something that clearly isnt for neither her or her husband that she implicated to have at that point of time

budaatum:
Sorry Bass, but we really can not proceed like this. The question posed are simple questions, and I do not really appreciate the attempt to use too much words to avoid answering it, but if and when you do answer, hola at buda please.

What part of I'll be giving you a not just an unimportant answer but it'll be a make believe, which likely can turn the other way round when the chips are down, dont you want to get?

BassReeves:
Please help me out here.
1. Was the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil freely given to Adam and Eve to eat from? Yes or No

No the tree was noy freely given to Adam and Eve to eat from, for while it was standing free in the Garden, Adam, we read, was specifically forbidden to eat thereof or he would die on the day that he does.

BassReeves:

2. Was the tree clearly out of bounds? Yes or No

No. The tree was not out of bounds. It was there in the Garden in bounds, which is why Eve had no trouble plucking its fruit and eating it.

BassReeves:

Selfish desire for something that clearly isnt for neither her or her husband that she implicated to have at that point of time

What was that something that was desired?

According to what or whom was it not "that point of time", and why?

budaatum:
Now! Thank you.

You say, "get a correct answer, even get answer from the horse' mouth directly and not really depend on hearsay nor rely on second or third parties dem says".

Could you please tell me how you'd get a "correct answer" if you do eat and test with your own mouth?

Fyi, I am not a Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil tester, and testing the tree is not part of my purview. With that out of the way, I've earlier stressed that I will get answers from the Horse' mouth. We know from Numbers 23:19a, that God is not a man, that He should lie to me

budaatum:
Would all other answers barring testing for yourself not be "second or third parties dem says"?

Know that marks will be deducted if you post irrelevants!

Anything nothing coming out from the Horse' mouth directly at me, will be second or third parties dem says

BassReeves:
Fyi, I am not a Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil tester, and testing the tree is not part of my purview.

I am going to have to ask you to please forgive me BassReeves, for wondering what the heck you might be doing in a thread that is specifically for the purview of those whom Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil testing or not testing is in their purview!?

Might I suggest you kindly park your self by the side and watch those who are willing to test or not test please.

Thank you immensely in advance.

budaatum:
No the tree was noy freely given to Adam and Eve to eat from, for while it was standing free in the Garden, Adam, we read, was specifically forbidden to eat thereof or he would die on the day that he does.

To you it might be standing free, but was it expressed to Adam or Eve that it is free to eat from?

budaatum:
No. The tree was not out of bounds. It was there in the Garden in bounds, which is why Eve had no trouble plucking its fruit and eating it.

Wrong answer, you gave because correct answer is yes, it was out of bounds for them to eat of.

Eve needed to have inculcated some self restraint, self control, self discipline and strong self will

budaatum:
What was that something that was desired?

She desired having something good, but went the wrong way, wrong time and on wrong side of God, wrong terms or standing with God in getting it

budaatum:
According to what or whom was it not "that point of time", and why?

Are you a learner? Dont you know that everything is seasonal? That there is a time for everything? Thats Bible 101 nah, there is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens etc

budaatum:
I am going to have to ask you to please forgive me BassReeves, for wondering what the heck you might be doing in a thread that is specifically for the purview of those whom Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil testing or not testing is in their purview!?

Might I suggest you kindly park your self by the side and watch those who are willing to test or not test please.

Thank you immensely in advance.

You are putting the cart before the horse. Adam and Eve are test objects. The Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil is just a testing tool

The platform under testing were Adam and Eve. The tree is not an object of testing nor ever was it, a platform under testing. There is no grounds for anyone to be testing the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, or be willing to test the tree my dear friend budaatum.

BassReeves:
To you it might be standing free, but was it expressed to Adam or Eve that it is free to eat from?

Did you at all read my answer, Bass? I'll repeat it so you can read it again!

"No the tree was not freely given to Adam and Eve to eat from, for while it was standing free in the Garden, Adam, we read, was specifically forbidden to eat thereof or he would die on the day that he does."

BassReeves:

Wrong answer, you gave because correct answer is yes, it was out of bounds for them to eat of.

A tree that was standing free in the garden was out of bounds, Bass?

How!? Was there barbwire keeping it out of bounds, or dogs perhaps, making it unreachable and out of bounds?

BassReeves:
Eve needed to have inculcated some self restraint, self control, self discipline and strong self will

Why should "Eve needed to have inculcated some self restraint, self control, self discipline and strong self will", when you claim the tree she was "needed to have inculcated some self restraint, self control, self discipline and strong self will" to not touch, was out of bounds as you claim?

Do you need to have "inculcated some self restraint, self control, self discipline and strong self will" to not reach out and touch something I place out of your bounds of you reaching out and touching it?

BassReeves:
She desired having something good, but went the wrong way, wrong time and on wrong side of God, wrong terms or standing with God in getting it

Really now? Would you kindly like to inform me what she desired and what she got please, and what sort of God that was that would rather Eve not have those "something good"?

BassReeves:
Are you a learner? Dont you know that everything is seasonal? That there is a time for everything? Thats Bible 101 nah, there is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens etc

I wonder why you'd think it was not the right season for Eve to have eaten the fruit she ate. Is it because you have not yet accepted that Eve must have eaten a ripe fruit perhaps?

BassReeves:
You are putting the cart before the horse. Adam and Eve are test objects. The Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil is just a testing tool

The platform under testing were Adam and Eve. The tree is not an object of testing nor ever was it, a platform under testing. There is no grounds for anyone to be testing the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, or be willing to test the tree my dear friend budaatum.

I advised you to read this and will advise you read it again!

Now please read what you wrote above and test for me if you will, the sense it makes to yourself!

"Adam and Eve are test objects. The Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil is just a testing tool", yet "There is no grounds for anyone to be testing the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, or be willing to test the tree".

If the tree is a "testing tool" and if Adam and Eve are "test objects", why would the tester not test the tool?

Do note that Eve was very very willing to test what Adam was told and test the tree she did!

Budaatum...you choose to ignore my answer. Because it was not what you were expecting..

So what did I say that is out of place..

I warned against looking at scriptures with our physical which you lots do. I teach the message in the story. As the letter killeth.

Well I tried. I have sown the seed. When the time comes you will grow up...

God is the universal consciousness...and man is a spirit dwelling with a body made from dust.
Man was created with the capacity and ability to make choices. Spirit are not. They do what God has created them to do.

Death is simply return to default settings..body to earth, spirit to God..

From the time God sends his spirit to the time he takes it , is the human experience. All that he requires of us is to follow rules to make it more purposeful by guiding our choices..

You are looking for a way to bring in Jesus. Which I have told you time after time is just a Roman creation.iHe has got nothing to do with God or man. He is just an idol. But you still want to hold on to absurdities...

Continue..

sonmvayina:
Budaatum...you choose to ignore my answer. Because it was not what you were expecting..

So what did I say that is out of place..

I warned against looking at scriptures with our physical which you lots do. I teach the message in the story. As the letter killeth.

Well I tried. I have sown the seed. When the time comes you will grow up...

You did not answer my questions at all, Sonm.
At best you answered the first one, and even that was by making out you did not understand the question you attempted to answer! Or what do you mean by "if you are asking"?

sonmvayina:

I have answered your question.

If you are asking if I would eat the fruit, I said I probably would just to experience what death is since I already have an idea what life is.....

And then you went toddler and resorted to insults to hide your lack of ability and hoped it would not be noticed but go read for yourself how many did notice!

sonmvayina:
You have no sense at all...how did you even get past primary 6?

I thought I have matured discussion. Never knew you are one of them nicompo....olodo.

So again what did you say that even made sense? If you have been following my line of thought..

Below are the questions again. You are allowed to resit if you wish.

It is written in the Torah:

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Will you obey such a command?

And why?

And what are the consequences if you obeyed or disobeyed?

No where did I ask you what God is, nor have I brought in any Jesus, unless you want to claim you can read my mind!

The text I am asking you about is from Genesis, and not from Jesus, so stop with the silly attempts to avoid answering!

sonmvayina:
God is the universal consciousness...and man is a spirit dwelling with a body made from dust.
Man was created with the capacity and ability to make choices. Spirit are not. They do what God has created them to do.

Death is simply return to default settings..body to earth, spirit to God..

From the time God sends his spirit to the time he takes it , is the human experience. All that he requires of us is to follow rules to make it more purposeful by guiding our choices..

You are looking for a way to bring in Jesus. Which I have told you time after time is just a Roman creation.iHe has got nothing to do with God or man. He is just an idol. But you still want to hold on to absurdities...

Continue..

budaatum:


You did not answer my questions at all, Sonm.
At best you answered the first one, and even that was by making out you did not understand the question you attempted to answer! Or what do you mean by "if you are asking"?



And then you went toddler and resorted to insults to hide your lack of ability and hoped it would not be noticed but go read for yourself how many did notice!



Below are the questions again. You are allowed to resit if you wish.

It is written in the Torah:

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Will you obey such a command?

And why?

And what are the consequences if you obeyed or disobeyed?

I will obey it whole heartedly....because the command was given by my creator...

sonmvayina:


I will obey it whole heartedly....because the command was given by my creator...

Now, that was easy Son, wasn't it? Couldn't you have easily said that from the beginning?

Now, the last bit please, so we may proceed.

What are the consequences if you obeyed or disobeyed?

budaatum:


Now, that was easy Son, wasn't it? Couldn't you have easily said that from the beginning?

Now, the last bit please, so we may proceed.

What are the consequences if you obeyed or disobeyed?

If I disobeyed the consequences would be death. If I obeyed them it means I have not fully lived. I would not have found or utilize my endowment like the ability to be curious....
Death...

sonmvayina:

If I disobeyed the consequences would be death. If I obeyed them it means I have not fully lived. I would not have found or utilize my endowment like the ability to be curious....
Death...

My good friend, morning.

Adam and Eve disobeyed and the consequence was not death, Somn. They went on to live a very long and fruitful life during which they are said to have populated the earth. So why, how, do you come to the conclussion that the consequence of you eating the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is death?

Does the acquisition of knowledge and wisdom kill?

budaatum:

My good friend, morning.

Adam and Eve disobeyed and the consequence was not death, Somn. They went on to live a very long and fruitful life during which they are said to have populated the earth. So why, how, do you come to the conclussion that the consequence of you eating the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is death?

Does the acquisition of knowledge and wisdom kill?

Lol...yes it does. Ever heard of Alfred Nobel and Oppenheimer?

And even Budaatum?

sonmvayina:


Lol...yes it does. Ever heard of Alfred Nobel and Oppenheimer?

And even Budaatum?

It is not the acquisition of knowledge that kills, Sonm. Everyone dies eventually, just that those without knowledge will die sooner and earlier than the wise, or would at least have lived a less productive life unlike Alfred Nobel (63 years) and J. Robert Oppenheimer (63 years) who both lived reasonably long and very productive lifes, as hopefully budaatum would too.

Why can't God be human, there is no way, we can know God fully by mere believing because most things we have learnt are tiny bits of the whole, like 7 blind men who touch an elephant and give account by their own experiences which is certainly not the whole....The best and proper thing freeze would think is that IRONS this matter once and for ALL except you think God would not appreciate it if man is taught by Him

sonmvayina:



Are you even following me or you just want me to keep repeating myself ?

God is the totality of the consciousness of the universe. God is not a man or a human being. And time after time I have always maintained that the letter killeth and have opened a thread to that effect. The story of the garden of eden is not to be taken literal. It is a recast of an earlier Babylonian epic about how man forfeited the chance to dwell on earth indefinitely....it is not a real story neither is it historical. We are meant to read them and learn the messages they contain...
The Torah is a law book of rights, privileges and laws...to guide our choices.

Even when we do make wrong choices, it still prescribed solutions and punishments..

Freeze007:

Why can't God be human, there is no way, we can know God fully by mere believing because most things we have learnt are tiny bits of the whole, like 7 blind men who touch an elephant and give account by their own experiences which is certainly not the whole....The best and proper thing freeze would think is that IRONS this matter once and for ALL except you think God would not appreciate it if man is taught by Him

We are all God's having a human experience in multiple ways..

We are the world.

My Goal is to do the unthinkable, such as knowing everything about creation and all that is necessary, don't you agree, The Teacher who is capable of teaching us this exist as a human being? Like, who told you, that you are God's living our experiences, I am sure this information must have come from some person(s), now, what I am saying, what about being taught my the Father of all creations physically on this Earth, do you agree to the possibility of this because whether or not you agree, He is existing, and Has always existed, to the children he is a child, to an adult he is an adult, to women he is women like he is everything and anything with knowledge of all his experiences, the meaning of Omnipresent

sonmvayina:


We are all God's having a human experience in multiple ways..

We are the world.