₦airaland Forum

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SlayerForever:
You don't know what you're saying.

Google it bro

TAO11:
(1) The chapter lists and simply explains the attributes of those deities.

The chapter is not about the history of those deities. The book is not about history at all.

So, expecting it to cover the history of those deities (i.e. the beginning of the deification) is a confirmation of the fact there is an embargo on the use of brain from your omonoba’s palace.

Again it is not a history book. Make use of your brain despite your omonobas ban against the use of brain.

(2) If you find a Yoruba history book (an extensive one at that) about Ife, etc. (prior to Johnson’s); and such book does not talk about king Oduduwa in its account of Ife’s kingship, then we can have this discussion.

But for now, all I can say is that you should go against your oba’s embargo which forbids using the brain.

It is always my pleasure to have you as my slave.

Peace!
Cc: nisai

Dont use reverse psychology


Bring a document that support odudwa to be a man king and not a blind olosho goddess prior to 1894


You're here lets troll

A lie told during ooni of ife coronation to boost
Traffic that queem of England will attend


Not even Brazilian government send a representative they would have invited mc olomo instead, but the thread was later
Close for the offensive lie


The second pictures shows the actual attendees if the ooni coronation and the oba of benin his forbidden to go for the coronation of a smaller king

The third pics shows the queen of England who sent a representative to the oba of benin coronation, but non was sent to the coronation of the ifa priest

Gregyboy you’ve been debunked to pieces as usual.

You’re asking for a [historical] documentation of king-Odua prior to Johnson’s “The History [Compl. 1897]”.

This is just as super-dumb as asking for a [historica] documentation on your king Ozolua prior to the first documentation of him.

Turning the tables may help you observe how autistic and retarded you sound.

You are a retard, and you’ve helped to demonstrate that throughly with your self-humiliating questions.

If indeed I visit this world a second time, I’d still choose you as my slave. I strongly believe that God kept you alive so I can have someone to mock.
——————
Having humiliated you for the umpteenth time, it’s time that we now ask you the same [inane] question perhaps you’d get it.

Show me the a written documentation on Ozolua prior to the first written documentation on him or it.

If you can’t, then he is a FaiRyTaLe. I can ask the same question for literally all your kings/supposed heroes.

Have sense Greg.

Cc: nisai, r4bbit

gregyboy:
[s]The oba of benin visit all monarchs who attends his coronation do you want me to show you picture of him visiting other monarchs... Lol desperado
If you want to troll atleast troll with truth...[/s]

Yes he visited many dignitaries, claiming he wants to thank them — cover up.

But where must he first visit? You will find out in the video below.

What are some of the things he must do at his first place of visit? You will find out in the video.


Channels TV News report was live on ground at Ife during Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare 2’s visit to the Ooni of Ife at Ife:

Go to time-stamp 0:24 to 0:34, and you would find the following words:

“...his FIRST port of call is the palace of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi — where he also paid HOMAGE to all Benin kings believed to have been buried there.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZhU2AmpvJk

My questions now are as follows:

(1) Why must the Ooni’s palace the first place your oba visits?

(2) Did your oba also pay homage at the residence of the other dignitaries he visited?

Clearly, the other visits are purely face-saving.

[s]But do you know what the oba of benin have never one day attended ooni of ife coronation[/s]

First of all, attending coronation a party is not a required traditional custom. In fact, the coronation party svent is a modern innovation.

Secondly, Erediauwa was the Benin king, at the time of the coronation party of the present Ooni. Guess why he couldn’t attend his “FATHER”s” (the Ooni’s ) party. Take a while guess.

Erediauwa was already a dying bed-ridden sick old man as at the time of the present Ooni’s coronation. and he does only 4 months after the coronation to tell you how bad he was bed-ridden. The whole world knows this.

Bed ridden sick dying old people don’t go to parties as far as I know.

But as for prior kings of Benin, whether they attend Ooni’s parties or not (even though such parties aren’t a traditional requirement) that is for you to prove. We are waiting.

[s]inshort nobody not even international dignitaries the last coronation naso we hear say queen if England go send representatives come,... Lol not even mc olomo we nor see not to talk talk of queen of England[/s]

Can we see a proof for your claim — even though I personally don’t care if light skinned people or Albinos attend. Talk of low-self esteem for Binis.

[s]But compare it to that of oba of benin coronation ... Yorubas will always be living at our shadows. No wonder they send Tao11 to false fully claim benin history for Yorubas[/s]

Light skinned people came to your oba’s party? Wow!

Now I agree that Benin is GrEaTeR tHaN Japan.

What am I even saying? Oba of Benin owns Japan in the first place. LMAO!

———————
THE ATTACHMENTS:

(1) Regarding your first attached screenshot:

The opinion expressed in that screenshot is of a certain Ryder from the year 1965.

Guess what has happened between 1965 and 2021 in the field of historical scholarship of African history.

The field of historical scholarship of African history has unanimously debunked that opinion from Ryder.

See for example:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A summary of this unanimous conclusion of scholars is aptly put in a 2016 publication as attached below in the screenshot below.

(2) Regarding your second attached screenshot:

The fact you truly believe that this screenshot refutes says it all about your grasp of English.

To help your life, I will dumb-down the content:

(A) The general Yoruba tradition is that they and their kings trace back to king Oduduwa of Ife.

(B) The exact words “the heritage of Oduduwa” is not necessarily the same precise wording used by them — but their wording is obviously to the same effect as shows in (A).

(C) There is at least one of these kingdoms (i.e. Oyo) which has something quite strange to say.

(D) This strange claim is found by this scholar (whose screenshot you attached) to be a latter claim which Oyo itself didn’t have/belief ab-initio.

(E) This scholar found that Oyo (being imperial later) then came up with this for propaganda of superiority over its father-Ife.

Having dumbed-down your own screenshot for you, I am aware that the whole of points (C), (S), and (E) may not be very obvious to you from that screenshot.

As such, I will cite the specific passages from the same material where Prof. R.C.C. Law made it clear.

R.C.C. Law writes, while debunking the spurious & strange one-off accounts which intends to challenge the Ooni’s superiority as follows:

“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.”
~ Page 212.


Moreover, after combing through the evidences, R. C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:

“SUMMARY
••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”.
~ Page 224.


Why are you a serial loser?

Peace!
Cc: r4bbit, nisai

TAO11:
Yes he visited many dignitaries, claiming he wants to thank them — cover up.

But where must he first visit? You will find out in the video below.

What are some of the things he must do at his first place of visit? You will find out in the video.


Channels TV News report was live on ground at Ife during Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare 2’s visit to the Ooni of Ife at Ife:

Go to time-stamp 0:24 to 0:34, and you would find the following words:

“...his FIRST port of call is the palace of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi — where he also paid HOMAGE to all Benin kings believed to have been buried there.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZhU2AmpvJk

My questions now are as follows:

(1) Why must the Ooni’s palace the first place your oba visits?

(2) Did your oba also pay homage at the residence of the other dignitaries he visited?

Clearly, the other visits are purely face-saving.

First of all, attending coronation a party is not a required traditional custom. In fact, the coronation party svent is a modern innovation.

Secondly, Erediauwa was the Benin king, at the time of the coronation party of the present Ooni. Guess why he couldn’t attend his “FATHER”s” (the Ooni’s ) party. Take a while guess.

Erediauwa was already a dying bed-ridden sick old man as at the time of the present Ooni’s coronation. and he does only 4 months after the coronation to tell you how bad he was bed-ridden. The whole world knows this.

Bed ridden sick dying old people don’t go to parties as far as I know.

But as for prior kings of Benin, whether they attend Ooni’s parties or not (even though such parties aren’t a traditional requirement) that is for you to prove. We are waiting.

Can we see a proof for your claim — even though I personally don’t care if light skinned people or Albinos attend. Talk of low-self esteem for Binis.

Light skinned people came to your oba’s party? Wow!

Now I agree that Benin is GrEaTeR tHaN Japan.

What am I even saying? Oba of Benin owns Japan in the first place. LMAO!

———————
THE ATTACHMENTS:

(1) Regarding your first attached screenshot:

The opinion expressed in that screenshot is of a certain Ryder from the year 1965.

Guess what has happened between 1965 and 2021 in the field of historical scholarship of African history.

The field of historical scholarship of African history has unanimously debunked that opinion from Ryder.

See for example:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A summary of this unanimous conclusion of scholars is aptly put in a 2016 publication as attached below in the screenshot below.

(2) Regarding your second attached screenshot:

The fact you truly believe that this screenshot refutes says it all about your grasp of English.

To help your life, I will dumb-down the content:

(A) The general Yoruba tradition is that they and their kings trace back to king Oduduwa of Ife.

(B) The exact words “the heritage of Oduduwa” is not necessarily the same precise wording used by them — but their wording is obviously to the same effect as shows in (A).

(C) There is at least one of these kingdoms (i.e. Oyo) which has something quite strange to say.

(D) This strange claim is found by this scholar (whose screenshot you attached) to be a latter claim which Oyo itself didn’t have/belief ab-initio.

(E) This scholar found that Oyo (being imperial later) then came up with this for propaganda of superiority over its father-Ife.

Having dumbed-down your own screenshot for you, I am aware that the whole of points (C), (S), and (E) may not be very obvious to you from that screenshot.

As such, I will cite the specific passages from the same material where Prof. R.C.C. Law made it clear.

R.C.C. Law writes, while debunking the spurious & strange one-off accounts which intends to challenge the Ooni’s superiority as follows:

“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.”
~ Page 212.


Moreover, after combing through the evidences, R. C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:

“SUMMARY
••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”.
~ Page 224.


Why are you a serial loser?

Peace!
Cc: r4bbit, nisai

With your rotten teeth your brothers know i weep your ass daily that's why they hate me the most

Now lets review your comment again

Why must the oba of ife first visit the ooni of ifw.... See the screenshot stop watching yoruba media.....it can get your brain inflicted


Check the date... Trans..... And tell me who the oba of benin visited first



Lion if coronation was an invention of the white please speak for the culturesless coward yoruba people not for the benins and other africans
Coronation is not even is a human culture when a king is crown there is merry that day, vassals comes to pay homage


An example was the adesuwa history in benin that led to anioma revolt it happened duribf the oba coronation when the king of ubulukwu
Came to pay homage to the crown prince before his coronation....

Tao11... You dey lie sha....

You turned the invitation of the queen representative to a racial one to escape the shame, lol and you soon forget you adorn Charles siting in the middle of nigerian kings, using it as sign that ooni sat next ti Charles and this he is more superior than the oba of benin who sat at the back...
Omo if i near you i go beat you ehnn... I go beat craze comot for your head, trolling is allowed but troll with truth


Lastly erediawa was sick no doubt but at then the crown prince who is oba ewuare was already in benin, the crown prince would have
Gone to replace is father as custom demand, unless the custom practice was your own imagination.. Lol


The screenshot is inconsequential bunch of confused authors


Confused authors who are supporting male Oduduwa when Oduduwa was actually female in 1894



You are really not smart you are only good in writing epistle and talking lies, you sound very loud on your writeup , if you were smart you wouldn't have replied me back
You could have easily imagine my counters but you can't help it can you...

gregyboy:
[s]With your rotten teeth your brothers know i weep your ass daily that's why they hate me the most Now lets review your comment againWhy must the oba of ife first visit the ooni of ifw.... See the screenshot stop watching yoruba media.....it can get your brain inflictedCheck the date... Trans..... And tell me who the oba of benin visited first Lion if coronation was an invention of the white please speak for the culturesless coward yoruba people not for the benins and other africans Coronation is not even is a human culture when a king is crown there is merry that day, vassals comes to pay homageAn example was the adesuwa history in benin that led to anioma revolt it happened duribf the oba coronation when the king of ubulukwuCame to pay homage to the crown prince before his coronation....... You dey lie sha.... ;DYou turned the invitation of the queen representative to a racial one to escape the shame, lol and you soon forget you adorn Charles siting in the middle of nigerian kings, using it as sign that ooni sat next ti Charles and this he is more superior than the oba of benin who sat at the back...Omo if i near you i go beat you ehnn... I go beat craze comot for your head, trolling is allowed but troll with truth Lastly erediawa was sick no doubt but at then the crown prince who is oba ewuare was already in benin, the crown prince would haveGone to replace is father as custom demand, unless the custom practice was your own imagination.. LolThe screenshot is inconsequential bunch of confused authors Confused authors who are supporting male Oduduwa when Oduduwa was actually female in 1894You are really not smart you are only good in writing epistle and talking lies, you sound very loud on your writeup , if you were smart you wouldn't have replied me back You could have easily imagine my counters but you can't help it can you... [/s]

WHAT A LOAD OF RRRRRRRUBISH!?


My reply to your 1st & 2nd screenshots:

TAO11:
Yes he visited many dignitaries, claiming he wants to thank them — cover up.

But where must he first visit? You will find out in the video below.

What are some of the things he must do at his first place of visit? You will find out in the video.

Channels TV News report was live on ground at Ife during Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare 2’s visit to the Ooni of Ife at Ife:

Go to time-stamp 0:24 to 0:34, and you will find the following words:

“...his FIRST port of call is the palace of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi — where he also paid HOMAGE to all Benin kings believed to have been buried there.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZhU2AmpvJk

My questions now are as follows:

(1) Why must the Ooni’s palace be the first place your oba visits?

(2) Did your oba also pay homage at the residence of the sultan/others when he visited them?

Clearly, the other visits are for face-saving purposes.

Furthermore, attending a coronation party is not a required traditional custom.

Secondly, Erediauwa was the then Benin king at the time of the coronation party of the present Ooni.

Guess why he couldn’t attend his “father’s” (the Ooni’s ) party. Take a wild guess. He couldn’t attend because:

Erediauwa was already a dying, bed-ridden, sick old man as at the time of the present Ooni’s coronation.

And he died only 4 months after the coronation of the Ooni. Lol.

Erediauwa was already dying at the time. It’s an open secret.

Bed-ridden sick dying old people don’t go to parties as far as I know.

But as for whether the kings before him attend Ooni’s parties or not that is for you to prove. It’s not even required anyways.

What is required is that Benin kings must visit Ife not long after such Bini king become king. He must visit Ife for confirmation and culminating ascension rites.

My reply to your 3rd screenshot:

TAO11:
The fact that you believe that this screenshot refutes anything says a lot about your grasp of English.

To help your life, I will dumb-down its content:

(A) The general Yoruba tradition is that they and their kings trace back to king Oduduwa of Ife.

(B) There is at least one of these kingdoms (i.e. Oyo) which has something quite strange to say.

(C) This strange claim is found by R.C.C. Law (whose screenshot you attached) to be a latter claim which Oyo itself didn’t have/belief ab-initio.

(D) This scholar found that Oyo (being later imperial) then came up with this for propaganda of superiority over its father-Ife.

Having helped to dumb-down the content of your own screenshot, I am aware that points (B), (C), and (D) may not be obvious to you from the screenshot.

As such, I will cite the specific passages from the same material where Prof. R.C.C. Law made it clear.

R.C.C. Law writes, while debunking the spurious & strange one-off accounts which intends to challenge the Ooni’s superiority as follows:

“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.”
~ Page 212.


Moreover, after combing through the evidences, R. C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:

“SUMMARY
••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”.
~ Page 224.

In sum, you have no clue what your screenshot says. And that’s due to your English comprehension issues.

Your screenshot (i.e. R.C.C. Law) confirms the general Yoruba traditions, while debunking the spurious ones which attempt to overturn it.

Why are you a serial loser?

My reply to your 4th screenshot:

TAO11:
If I come to this world a second time, I will still choose you as my slave.

(1) First of all, it is clear from my comment that the specific point I made is about a deity Oduduwa — not the historical personage who himself was deified

(2) The word “deified”, by the way, refers to the idea of elevating a human to the status of a deity usually after such person has passed on.

In such cases, the human-gender doesn’t necessarily determine the deity-gender.

In other words, a historical man may be admitted into a pantheon as a male deity, or a female deity, or as both.

In Benin kingdom for example, despite the historical Oduduwa being recognized (even there) as a man, he is deified as both a male-deity & a female-deity.

Olokun is a woman historically, yet she is deified both as a male-deity and as a female-deity, in Yorubaland.

(3) Your screenshot (which reference I provided) is on a deity Oduduwa, in the specific context of religion.

The title of the book makes it clear that it is not about history. It is not a history book at all in the first place.

Moreover, the chapter’s title also makes it specifically clear that it is about divinities not the actual humans themselves who were deified. The chapter’s title reads as “CHIEF GODS”.

As such, the reference I gave to a non-history book is in agreement with the point I was making.

And the point I was making on that thread, quoting word-for-word, is that:

“And there are books on the Yoruba people’s religion, etc. (published before Johnson’s history) which shows the name Oduduwa as one of these heavenly deities. See A.B. Ellis (1894).”

(4) And why did this issue of deities come up in the first place?

It came up because Crowther didn’t write about Ife’s history — being that he is a linguist and as such is concerned with grammar books, etc. — but at times devotes very minuscule pages to accounts of some stories/histories in the introductory remarks.

In one of his introductory remarks, he touched on the story of creation at Ife, which features heavenly beings — not historical beings — whose names differ one version of the story to another.

It was in this context (i.e. the context of deities) that I cited Oturupon-Wonifa as well as A.B. Ellis (1894) for the names Oduduwa, et al. as deities featuring in the story about Yoruba deities or heavenly beings.

(5) Johnson’s later work, on the other hand, is a work on history (a comprehensive one at that), and as such covers the history of the Yorubas from the beginning to the king-Oduduwa period and beyond to the 1800s.

(6) In sum, the issue of omission does not come up in the case of Crowther because his grammar work (with some accounts) is not intended to (and did not) cover all the way up to the king-Oduduwa period.

Similarly, A. B. Ellis’ work (which focuses on religion, etc.) is obviously not a history book, and as such is not supposed to (and did not) cover anything about king Oduduwa.

The specific mention of Odua in this work was clearly shown under the chapter entitled “CHIEF GODS”.

In other words, a deity Odua (whose gender doesn’t necessarily follow that of the actual human who was deified) is the only relevant point of reference as far as this non-history book is concerned.

In recognition of this unique gender-phenomenon in the deification of Yoruba personages, R. F. Burton in his 1863 publication writes in the * footnote of page 186 as follows:

“The fact that this deity is male, female, and hermaphrodite, is a fair specimen of pagan vagueness.”

Moreover, I have also alluded already to the kingdom of Benin where king-Oduduwa is of course known to have been a man, but is in the same breath deified as both a male deity, and a female deity.

God created you so I can have someone to mock.

Peace!

TAO11:
WHAT A LOAD OF RRRRRRRUBISH!?


My reply to your 1st & 2nd screenshots:


My reply to your 3rd screenshot:


My reply to your 4th screenshot:


God created you so I can have someone to mock.

Peace!

Lol.... You can't even breathe respect me.... And know peace


The benin ife relationship was a political move made in the early 1900 by the oba of benin who sort thr help of the ooni for a political unification to strengthen the edo political power and as such he was welcomed as a son
Of the yoruba deity Oduduwa

Oduduwa on the other hand is a myth created by Samuel johson

gregyboy:
[s]Lol.... You can't even breathe respect me.... And know peace
The benin ife relationship was a political move made in the early 1900 by the oba of benin who sort thr help of the ooni for a political unification to strengthen the edo political power and as such he was welcomed as a son Of the yoruba deity Oduduwa on the other hand is a myth created by Samuel johson[/s]

DEBUNKED!


My reply to your 1st screenshot:

TAO11:
The fact that you believe that this screenshot refutes anything says a lot about your grasp of English.

To help your life, I will dumb-down its content:

(A) The general Yoruba tradition is that they and their kings trace back to king Oduduwa of Ife.

(B) There is at least one of these kingdoms (i.e. Oyo) which has something quite strange to say.

(C) This strange claim is found by R.C.C. Law (whose screenshot you attached) to be a latter claim which Oyo itself didn’t have/belief ab-initio.

(D) This scholar found that Oyo (being later imperial) then came up with this for propaganda of superiority over its father-Ife.

Having helped to dumb-down the content of your own screenshot, I am aware that points (B), (C), & (D) may not be obvious to you from the screenshot.

As such, I will cite the specific passages from the same material where R.C.C. Law made these clear.

R.C.C. Law writes, while debunking the spurious and strange one-off accounts which intends to challenge the Ooni’s superiority as follows:

“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.”
~ Page 212.


Moreover, after combing through the evidences, R. C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:

“SUMMARY
••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”.
~ Page 224.

In sum, you have no clue what your screenshot says. And that’s due to your English comprehension issues.

Your screenshot (i.e. R.C.C. Law) confirms the general Yoruba traditions, while debunking the spurious ones which attempt to overturn it.

Why are you a serial loser?

My reply to your 2nd screenshot:

TAO11:
If I come to this world a second time, I will still choose you as my slave.

(1) First of all, it is clear from my comment that the specific point I made is about a deity Oduduwa — not the historical personage who himself was deified

(2) The word “deified”, by the way, refers to the idea of elevating a human to the status of a deity usually after such person has passed on.

In such cases, the human-gender doesn’t necessarily determine the deity-gender.

In other words, a historical man may be admitted into a pantheon as a male deity, or a female deity, or as both.

In Benin kingdom for example, despite the historical Oduduwa being recognized (even there) as a man, he is deified as both a male-deity & a female-deity.

Olokun is a woman historically, yet she is deified both as a male-deity and as a female-deity, in Yorubaland.

(3) Your screenshot (which reference I provided) is on a deity Oduduwa, in the specific context of religion.

The title of the book makes it clear that it is not about history. It is not a history book at all in the first place.

Moreover, the chapter’s title also makes it specifically clear that it is about divinities not the actual humans themselves who were deified. The chapter’s title reads as “CHIEF GODS”.

As such, the reference I gave to a non-history book is in agreement with the point I was making.

And the point I was making on that thread, quoting word-for-word, is that:

“And there are books on the Yoruba people’s religion, etc. (published before Johnson’s history) which shows the name Oduduwa as one of these heavenly deities. See A.B. Ellis (1894).”

(4) And why did this issue of deities come up in the first place?

It came up because Crowther didn’t write about Ife’s history — being that he is a linguist and as such is concerned with grammar books, etc. — but at times devotes very minuscule pages to accounts of some stories/histories in the introductory remarks.

In one of his introductory remarks, he touched on the story of creation at Ife, which features heavenly beings — not historical beings — whose names differ one version of the story to another.

It was in this context (i.e. the context of deities) that I cited Oturupon-Wonifa as well as A.B. Ellis (1894) for the names Oduduwa, et al. as deities featuring in the story about Yoruba deities or heavenly beings.

(5) Johnson’s later work, on the other hand, is a work on history (a comprehensive one at that), and as such covers the history of the Yorubas from the beginning to the king-Oduduwa period and beyond to the 1800s.

(6) In sum, the issue of omission does not come up in the case of Crowther because his grammar work (with some accounts) is not intended to (and did not) cover all the way up to the king-Oduduwa period.

Similarly, A. B. Ellis’ work (which focuses on religion, etc.) is obviously not a history book, and as such is not supposed to (and did not) cover anything about king Oduduwa.

The specific mention of Odua in this work was clearly shown under the chapter entitled “CHIEF GODS”.

In other words, a deity Odua (whose gender doesn’t necessarily follow that of the actual human who was deified) is the only relevant point of reference as far as this non-history book is concerned.

In recognition of this unique gender-phenomenon in the deification of Yoruba personages, R. F. Burton in his 1863 publication writes in the * footnote of page 186 as follows:

“The fact that this deity is male, female, and hermaphrodite, is a fair specimen of pagan vagueness.”

Moreover, I have also alluded already to the kingdom of Benin where king-Oduduwa is of course known to have been a man, but is in the same breath deified as both a male deity, and a female deity.

My reply to your 3rd screenshot:

TAO11:
The opinion expressed in your 3rd screenshot is that of a certain Ryder from the year 1965.

Guess what has happened between 1965 and 2021 in the field of historical scholarship of African history.

The field of historical scholarship of African history has unanimously debunked that opinion from Ryder.

See for example:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A summary of this unanimous conclusion of scholars is aptly put in a 2016 publication as attached below in the screenshot below.

God created gregyboy so TAO11 can have someone to humiliate. In the end, you clearly have a purpose in life.

TAO11:
DEBUNKED!


My reply to your 1st screenshot:



My reply to your 2nd screenshot:



My reply to your 3rd screenshot:


God created gregyboy so TAO11 can have someone to humiliate. In the end, you clearly have a purpose in life.

After Oduduwa transform from a female goddes in 1894 to a male mortal king in 1897

Is that the evidence your using to deal with me.. With lies

Abi the fact that i pointed out your ooni must always come to the oba of benin coronation and the oba of benin have never attended the coronation of the ooni of ife....


It is a must the ooni of ife must attend the oba of benin coronation sevice and the oba inreturn of honor sends delegate to a smaller kings coronation service like the ooni of ife and obi of abor


Now tell me... How did you get to achieve your statement if not self deceit

Malawian:
Whether they are Igbo or not, I can't say. What I can say is his is the first time I am knowing of any New Yam Festival among any Edo tribe. The name of their tribe is also curious btw.

new yam is celebrated throughout the southern tribes. Not only the Afemia people but also the Ishan people

Malawian:
Whether they are Igbo or not, I can't say. What I can say is his is the first time I am knowing of any New Yam Festival among any Edo tribe. The name of their tribe is also curious btw.

New yam festival is an edo tradition not igbo the only yoruba groups who celebrate new yam festival are the Eastern yorubas who
Were influenced by benins


Here is a document from the french in the 17 century talking about benin yam festival

Ubenedictus:
new yam is celebrated throughout the southern tribes. Not only the Afemia people but also the Ishan people

Oga, I schooled in Ishan land. They don't even do yams per say. They do something called Ema. There is nothing like new yam Festival among the Ishans. 7 years in that town is enough to conclude.

Malawian:
Oga, I schooled in Ishan land. They don't even do yams per say. They do something called Ema. There is nothing like new yam Festival among the Ishans. 7 years in that town is enough to conclude.

Hope you saw this a document by the french in 1837


But ema is pounded yam na equivalent to yam festival after the harvest of yam you make ema


Are you igbo

gregyboy:
Hope you saw this a document by the french in 1837


But ema is pounded yam na equivalent to yam festival after the harvest of yam you make ema


Are you igbo

Yes I am Igbo. I can tell you I spent about 7 years in Ekpoma and not once was there anything like new yam Festival. There is no such thing there at least now. If there was in the ancient past, I don't know. But now, no such thing there. Any Ishan in the house can concure.

Malawian:
Yes I am Igbo. I can tell you I spent about 7 years in Ekpoma and not once was there anything like new yam Festival. There is no such thing there at least now. If there was in the ancient past, I don't know. But now, no such thing there. Any Ishan in the house can concure.

...

It has faded out, even tge benin yam festival has faded out too... And now merged into the oba ceremony of igue festival...

If it was there in benin 1800 then it was also there for the esans too, they are closest people to the benins than any other tribe

gregyboy:
New yam festival is an edo tradition not igbo the only yoruba groups who celebrate new yam festival are the Eastern yorubas who
Were influenced by benins


Here is a document from the french in the 17 century talking about benin yam festival

The bolded is clearly a lie, but unsubstantiated claims are to be expected from you! Even the Ana subgroup of Yoruba in Togo celebrate new yam festival "dun itsu" and they are the most Western Yoruba group.

https://www.nairaland.com/2785603/ana-ife-odon-itsu-atakpame-togo

9jakool:
The bolded is clearly a lie, but unsubstantiated claims are to be expected from you! Even the Ana subgroup of Yoruba in Togo celebrate new yam festival "dun itsu" and they are the most Western Yoruba group.

https://www.nairaland.com/2785603/ana-ife-odon-itsu-atakpame-togo

You brought a togolese self acclaimed Yorubas to prove your point, what if those togolese Yorubas were influenced by their togolese neighbouring tribe practicing yam festival

Even their names doesnt even sound yoruba

Malawian:
Yes I am Igbo. I can tell you I spent about 7 years in Ekpoma and not once was there anything like new yam Festival. There is no such thing there at least now. If there was in the ancient past, I don't know. But now, no such thing there. Any Ishan in the house can concure.

Esan people do celebrate New Yam Festival. It's called Ihuan or Esano in places like Uzea.

Ubenedictus:
new yam is celebrated throughout the southern tribes. Not only the Afemia people but also the Ishan people

My brother Bini eat new yam and it is very serious among us too, we call it "Emo'oro". I also learnt that some eastern Yoruba tribe observe it too

Malawian:
Oga, I schooled in Ishan land. They don't even do yams per say. They do something called Ema. There is nothing like new yam Festival among the Ishans. 7 years in that town is enough to conclude.

Please tell me what is "Ema" then my brother, what is "Ema" made of

UGBE634:
Please tell me what is "Ema" then my brother, what is "Ema" made of

Yam and fufu. What I insist is: there is no festival of the yam among the Ishans of today.

Malawian:
Yam and fufu. What I insist is: there is no festival of the yam among the Ishans of today.

hope you know Ekpoma and Uromi are the prime towns of the Esan people and the most densely populated towns of this people and as such some natural traditions must have been eroded from these towns. Have you gone to places like Ewohimi, Ohordua and the Others, some of these towns which are so very pristine and natural,Are you aware there are about 35 kingdoms in Esanland, some with slightly different customs and traditions and also some still very native and Ekpoma as just one of the clans will not pass as a perfect example of "Esans" of today. What will you say to that screenshot then

Malawian:
Oga, I schooled in Ishan land. They don't even do yams per say. They do something called Ema. There is nothing like new yam Festival among the Ishans. 7 years in that town is enough to conclude.

I didn't just school in Ishan land I am also from Edo. It is true that Ishan people like mixing there yams with cassava but that doesn't change the fact that Ishan people have new yam festival...I don't know where you schooled, my guess is that it was a town. I on the other hand spent a long time in Ishan villages and the last time I witnessed a new yam festival it was Ewu.

And as for the thread, I am related to the Aviawmu clan and we are not Igbos...we are Afemia.

Ubenedictus:
I didn't just school in Ishan land I am also from Edo. It is true that Ishan people like mixing there yams with cassava but that doesn't change the fact that Ishan people have new yam festival...I don't know where you schooled, my guess is that it was a town. I on the other hand spent a long time in Ishan villages and the last time I witnessed a new yam festival it was Ewu.

And as for the thread, I am related to the Aviawmu clan and we are not Igbos...we are Afemia.

Alright then, let me agree there is yam Festival among Ishans. Not that I have seen such myself. It will be good if you guys show us pictures from the next yam Festival you guys do so we document it.

Really?[quote author=Xilsbridalhouse post=104557988][/quote]

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