₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
Isaiah 53 is about a suffering servant. Isaiah has already told you who the servant is in 41:6-9.

The major tenant of Christianity is the resurrection and second coming ...is this supported in the Torah?

sonmvayina:
The major tenant of Christianity is the resurrection and second coming ...is this supported in the Torah?

I will talk about this soon let me study the relationship and linkage

sonmvayina:
Isaiah 53 is about a suffering servant. Isaiah has already told you who the servant is in 41:6-9.

The major tenant of Christianity is the resurrection and second coming ...is this supported in the Torah?

The Torah and Judaism books clearly affirms the doctrine of the general resurrection of the dead.

In a way only scholars can understand if you have insight to the way God speaks

Note, in brief, the following points.
Old Testament - (cf. 2 Tim. 1:10).


Exodus 3:6
Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.


Matthew 22:31-32
31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”


According to Jesus, God’s declaration to Moses regarding Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was an indication of the eventual resurrection
(Mt. 22:31,32).
Because this men where dead when God declared he was their God so God was showing this men are living in him and they Wil one day be brought back to life because God is the God of the living and not the dead


Other Old Testament Judaism books also it passages suggested that man’s body would be raised
(see Job 19:25-27;
Psa. 17:15;
Isa. 26:19;
Dan. 12:2;
Hos. 13:14)

From this we can see resurrection is possible because God is all powerful and he is the God of the living which at the end of time Wil send Jesus the second time to resurrect all those who believe in Jesus

Jesus said Moses spoke about me

Bishopkingsley:
The Torah and Judaism books clearly affirms the doctrine of the general resurrection of the dead.

In a way only scholars can understand if you have insight to the way God speaks

Note, in brief, the following points.
Old Testament - (cf. 2 Tim. 1:10). R


Exodus 3:6
Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.


Matthew 22:31-32
31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”


According to Jesus, God’s declaration to Moses regarding Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was an indication of the eventual resurrection
(Mt. 22:31,32).
Because this men where dead when God declared he was their God so God was showing this men are living in him and they Wil one day be brought back to life because God is the God of the living and not the dead


Other Old Testament Judaism books also it passages suggested that man’s body would be raised
(see Job 19:25-27;
Psa. 17:15;
Isa. 26:19;
Dan. 12:2;
Hos. 13:14)

From this we can see resurrection is possible because God is all powerful and he is the God of the living which at the end of time Wil send Jesus the second time to resurrect all those who believe in Jesus

You are just dancing about like a headless chicken.

Is it written anywhere in the tanakh that the Messiah will die, resurrect and ascend to the sky? Especially in Isaiah 53??

Bishopkingsley:
I will talk about this soon let me study the relationship and linkage

Ok am waiting..

Bishopkingsley:
At that time Cyrus of Persia had been expanding his empire. He had conquered all the countries to the north and east, and was now threatening Babylon. The prophet imagines God calling the nations to assemble before him and asking them a question: who is it that has stirred up Cyrus to carry out this conquest? The answer: Yahweh (41:1-4).
As the armies of Cyrus approach these nations the people panic, and in their distress call upon their gods for protection. Isaiah pictures the goldsmiths and other craftsmen helping and encouraging each other as they work overtime to meet the heavy demand for idols (5-7).
The people of Israel, by contrast, are the people of the living God. He chose them long ago and he has not forgotten them. He is always present to strengthen and protect them (8-10). They need not fear their enemies, for God will fight for them - and no enemy can stand against him (11-13).
By God’s power Israel will be victorious. As a farmer threshes and winnows wheat, so Israel will crush and scatter its enemies (14-16). God will answer the prayers of his people, and provide them with all they need for a healthy and prosperous life. His gracious gifts will be a demonstration of his character that all can see (17-20).
God then challenges the gods of the nations to prove their power by predicting coming events. Not only are they unable to predict the future, they cannot even relate the past. He challenges them to prove their existence by doing anything at all, good or bad, but again they are unable. They are lifeless (21-24). God points out that he predicts correctly and acts decisively. None of the gods of the nations predicted Cyrus’s conquest, but the God of Israel did (25-27). These gods can neither predict events nor answer questions. Being lifeless, they can only deceive those who worship them (28-29).

The Servant of Yahweh

In 42:1-4 we meet the first of the four so-called Servant Songs. (The others are in 49:1-6, 50:4-9 and 52:13-53:12.)

The songs gives a mixed indication who this servant is because Bible is not a novel God hides things inside each verse .

Notice
In some cases the whole nation Israel is the servant, in other cases it is the faithful within Israel, while in some cases it is the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

The probable reason for this threefold meaning is that Israel as a whole failed, and the spiritual blessings God desired for Israel were experienced only by the faithful few who truly believed God. Yet even this faithful remnant did not experience the full blessings God intended for his people. God’s purposes for Israel were fulfilled only in Jesus the Messiah. The nation Israel was Abraham’s natural offspring (John 8:37); the few faithful believers within Israel, often referred to as the remnant, were his spiritual offspring (Romans 9:6-7; Galatians 3:29); but the Messiah himself was the one and only perfect off-spring, in whom all God’s purposes for Israel were fulfilled and through whom people of all nations are blessed (Galatians 3:16; cf. Genesis 12:1-3,Genesis 12:7).

Although the people of Israel repeatedly failed and suffered God’s punishment, they nevertheless looked forward to a golden age of glory and power. The expectancy of a golden age naturally became greater as the exiles in Babylon learnt that they were about to return to their land. But, having returned and rebuilt their nation, they again failed.

Jesus Christ, the embodiment of ideal Israel, not only suffered God’s punishment because of his people’s sins, but brought the glory and power that Israel hoped for but never achieved (cf. Isaiah 42:1-4 with Matthew 12:17-21; cf. Isaiah 53:4 with Matthew 8:17).

In Matthew 12:17–21, Isaiah 42:1–4 is cited as a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecies in the life and work of Jesus Christ: And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them all. Yet He warned them not to make Him known, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: "Behold!

Isaiah 42:1-4
King James Version
42 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

Isaiah 53:4 ►
Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.

In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads:
Matthew 8:17
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by (Isaiah.. the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses. ... This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases."

My beloved brother
Jesus full filled every thing the Torah and other books said about him

Lol...I did not ask for this story. I know it already..

Show me where the servant is any other than Israel?

sonmvayina:
Lol...I did not ask for this story. I know it already..

Show me where the servant is any other than Israel?

Why don't you read the story to see how the servant was shown

Read it I explained all the questions inside the story

sonmvayina:
You are just dancing about like a headless chicken.

Is it written anywhere in the tanakh that the Messiah will die, resurrect and ascend to the sky? Especially in Isaiah 53??

https://www.nairaland.com/6616393/once-saved-then-saved-forever/8#106719263

https://www.nairaland.com/6616393/once-saved-then-saved-forever/8#106710538

I already explained all in this two stories take time to read it

Then you can link the plan of salvation from God

sonmvayina:
Lol...I did not ask for this story. I know it already..

Show me where the servant is any other than Israel?

The Servant of Yahweh

In 42:1-4 we meet the first of the four so-called Servant Songs. (The others are in 49:1-6, 50:4-9 and 52:13-53:12.)

The songs gives a mixed indication who this servant is because Bible is not a novel God hides things inside each verse .

Notice
In some cases the whole nation Israel is the servant, in other cases it is the faithful within Israel, while in some cases it is the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

The probable reason for this threefold meaning is that Israel as a whole failed, and the spiritual blessings God desired for Israel were experienced only by the faithful few who truly believed God. Yet even this faithful remnant did not experience the full blessings God intended for his people. God’s purposes for Israel were fulfilled only in Jesus the Messiah.

Bishopkingsley:
The Servant of Yahweh

In 42:1-4 we meet the first of the four so-called Servant Songs. (The others are in 49:1-6, 50:4-9 and 52:13-53:12.)

The songs gives a mixed indication who this servant is because Bible is not a novel God hides things inside each verse .

Notice
In some cases the whole nation Israel is the servant, in other cases it is the faithful within Israel, while in some cases it is the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

The probable reason for this threefold meaning is that Israel as a whole failed, and the spiritual blessings God desired for Israel were experienced only by the faithful few who truly believed God. Yet even this faithful remnant did not experience the full blessings God intended for his people. God’s purposes for Israel were fulfilled only in Jesus the Messiah.

It is talking about a servant...not a son. Give me just one instance where it refers to Jesus christ.
Just one.

sonmvayina:
It is talking about a servant...not a son. Give me just one instance where it refers to Jesus christ.
Just one.

my brother when you hear that God is all in all
What it means is that God is both servant and master and son and prophet and etc.... every good thing you can think of.....

Anybody who helps you is actually a servant so don't equate servant to mean evil thing

Now
1. In Judaism, they wrongly say the Messiah is only flesh and blood.

Even though the Tanach states that God will be a father to him and he will be a son to God:
So Judaism fail to understand
Not knowing that he is going to be both flesh and blood and God Almighty.

"I will be his father and he shall be my son." (II Samuel 7:14),...... Here God calls him my son..

Jesus back then was meant to be hidden from those who don't belong to God so you can see if God revealed his name back then that the present king will do everything to kill him

So that why his name was not revealed .

You can never lose your salvation because of many reasons stated in the scriptures but one of them is God is greater than our hearts

Who I have washed is indeed washed forever

Everything is under God's control

Genesis 3:22

And God said, "Behold, Adam has become as one of us, knowing good and evil, and now on no account shall he stretch out his hand and take from the tree of life and eat and live forever. ... And now let him not put forth his hand and take of the fruit of the tree of life and eat and live forever."

. This shows that no matter what Adam does that once he eats from the tree of life he will live forever even though he had sinned against God

So from Scripture we know Jesus is that tree of life in which anyone who eats from him will have eternal life

You are the body of Christ

Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is like that for us. When a person receives his gift of forgiveness, condemnation for all sin just rolls right off — past, present, and future! It has nothing to do with the material of the person who is coated by Jesus’ forgiveness, but has everything to do with the perfection of what they are coated with — the blood and righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Let handle this first before I look at the other once

I want to breakdown Ezekiel 18:24. This is a verse that few people have used to belittle God's ultimate power

, saying it proves that God does not forgive future sins and there is no forever saved principle even if when we place our faith in Christ,
that God only forgives past sins. They contended that this verse clearly shows how a believer in Christ could lose their salvation if they turn away from righteousness toward wickedness. Let’s look into it.

Here’s the verse in question.

“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:24 NKJV)

The assertion is that this verse proves that if a saved believer in Christ turns to a lifestyle of sin and wickedness, acting no differently than the unsaved, then that person’s prior righteousness will not be remembered. He will die in his sins and suffer eternal punishment in hell. This then proves that when we place our faith in Christ, only the sins that we’ve committed up to that point are forgiven. Future sins could still send us to hell if we turn from following Christ and live a lifestyle of wickedness.

Well, this assertion is actually fairly easy to disprove.

First, Ezekiel 18:24 says absolutely nothing about eternal judgment. It is talking about physical death, that if those who were once righteous turn to wickedness, then they will not live out their full lives but will die before their time. There is no language whatsoever in this verse to indicate that such a person is being eternally judged. The verse just says they will die.

This becomes abundantly clear when we look at the Hebrew text. The Hebrew word for “die” in this verse is the word “muwth.” It means, “to die (as penalty), be put to death,” “to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct).” This verse is speaking about physical death, not about the eternal judgment of that person.

Second, if you think this verse also means that the person will be eternally condemned, then you have a problem, because you would have to apply that same standard to verse 21, which would contradict clear teaching on salvation. Verse 21 is very similar and says this:

“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.” (Ezekiel 18:21 NKJV)

So if you say that the righteous person who turned to wickedness was eternally judged and sent to hell, then you also have to say this wicked person who turned to righteousness will be eternally saved. But is that the case

Glory to God

You are a child of God forever

I will be with you even to the end of age

Trust God