₦airaland Forum

MightySparrow:
In your own response, which other spirit can give life?
Jesus must have been a class of His own, the same material as Jehovah, himself.
If He ( Jesus) created everything, He must be outside His own creation. Phil.2: 6

MaxInDHouse:
Whatever you conclude please stick to it and forget about what any other person says since there are over 41,000 different sects claiming denominations of the same religion with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines due to diverse interpretation and you're not interested in knowing the group that got things right!

MightySparrow:
Your own interpretation is another thought to study. As you are cork sure of your conviction and pipe it loud and deafening into our :Phearing. Why not keep your conviction to yourselves? You even go to the level of harassment. I am a Trinitarian! Trinitarian!! Trinitarian!!!

sagenaija:
You can be sure that I have fellowship with those who share my line of thought and position on the Scripture.
I also contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints according to Jude 1:3.
I equally endeavour to expose the fruitless deeds of darkness as Ephesians 5:11 enjoined us to do.

MaxinDHouse is FIXATED on "which group is PRACTICING what Jesus taught?". He seem to forget that Jesus Christ addressed seven (7) churches in the book of Revelation. Were those churches his own? Were they one (1) group? Did they have different issues confronting them?
So, what was the singular UNIFYING thread or bond between them?

The focus is not man or group otherwise glory will be given to the man or group. The focus is on him who said "I will build my church".

The ultimate issue is 'What think ye of Christ?'. Who is he to the individual or to a group? A mere out-of-this-world super angel OR the creator, saviour and sustainer of all?

That belief on Christ is the foundational basis for everything else that follows. Once it is missing or misconstrued everything else, every purported practical works, will crumble before him when he comes to judge ALL.

sagenaija:
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This is what I wrote a couple of months ago in response to your insistence on 'group that's practicing Christianity in the right sense':

MightySparrow:
In your own response, which other spirit can give life?

Jesus must have been a class of His own, the same material as Jehovah, himself.

If He ( Jesus) created everything, He must be outside His own creation. Phil.2: 6

1 Corinthians 8:6 , JEHOVAH God his Father, created everything, NOT Jesus.
Did Jesus create his Father?
No, definitely!!

Colossians 1:15, the first born of every creature, Jesus said he received life from his Father, John5:26 & Revelation 3:14.

Genesis 49:3, Is Reuben the beginning of the children of Jacob?
Sparrow is DECEIVING himself

sagenaija:
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This is what I wrote a couple of months ago in response to your insistence on 'group that's practicing Christianity in the right sense':

Numbers 6:27,Hebrews 11:26 Moses chose to be with the People/Group bearing Jehovah's name.
Acts 15:14,17-18, it is Jehovah's servants converted by Jesus, John 9:4/ Acts3:13 & others converted by them, Hebrews 13:7,17.
Isaiah 43:10,21, Jehovah calls them by His name, JEHOVAH's Witnesses.
Revelations 1:1 & Isaiah 43:10(ASV), are the seven Congregations or 7 Churches Jehovah's witnesses?
Study this scriptures thoroughly & receive SENSE

Janosky:
Numbers 6:27,Hebrews 11:26 Moses chose to be with the People/Group bearing Jehovah's name.
Acts 15:14,17-18, it is Jehovah's servants converted by Jesus, John 9:4/ Acts3:13 & others converted by them, Hebrews 13:7,17.
Isaiah 43:10,21, Jehovah calls them by His name, JEHOVAH's Witnesses.
Revelations 1:1 & Isaiah 43:10(ASV), are the seven Congregations or 7 Churches Jehovah's witnesses?
Study this scriptures thoroughly & receive SENSE

Janosky:
1 Corinthians 8:6 , JEHOVAH God his Father, created everything, NOT Jesus.
Did Jesus create his Father?
No, definitely!!

Colossians 1:15, the first born of every creature, Jesus said he received life from his Father, John5:26 & Revelation 3:14.

Genesis 49:3, Is Reuben the beginning of the children of Jacob?
Sparrow is DECEIVING himself

MaxInDHouse:
Note that it's the OP who mentioned a group and tried to prove that they are wrong. So if a member of that group decides to air his own conviction and what he based his conclusion upon how is that a crime now?

sagenaija:
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1. Janosky, Can a creature uphold all things by the word of his power?

John 17:7
"Now they know that everything I have is a gift from you"
Colossians 1:15 did your own Bible call Jesus a creation/creature?
Is John 17:17 & Colossians 1:15 in your Bible?

sagenaija:
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2. You are the one missing not just one thing but several. Read Hebrews 1:4 in context.

sagenaija:
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3. Another vital point you missed on Hebrews 1:5 is this: God NEVER said to ANY angel you are 'My Son'. Remember that the Father addressed Jesus as 'Son' at his baptism and the transfiguration. Does that mean anything to you?

How you came to the convoluted "Jesus Christ is his Father's angel= son of God.
Biblical Fact." only you can tell but it is not in that portion of Scripture.

In Hebrew testament "Son of God"=angel.
Is Hebrews 1:4 lifted from Hebrew testament, Psalms 89:26?
Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7 go and receive tutorials from your Trinity mentors who translate your Bible, "sons of God"= angels.
Son of God= angel= Jesus.

sagenaija:
4. Again, and it bears repeating, Daniel 10:13 in your translation puts Daniel 10:13b as follows - ".... But then Michael, one of the foremost princes, ..."

Did you see 'one of' in that portion? 'One of' means there are others who are in the class of 'foremost princes'. How did 'one of' become 'Jesus Christ is the archangel meaning Leader of all angels.' Only janosky's warped thinking can come to that conclusion. Nothing there is talking about 'the' Archangel. It says 'one of'. Isn't that clear enough for you, even from your own translation?
.

sagenaija:
5. Must you be spoon fed to grasp simple truths? Ok, I see your problem: it's your indoctrination. Now, look at Revelation 5. Note verse 14. Is there worship there? Then go back a little to verse 13. Is the Lamb there? Is he linked with the Father? Then go again and read the entire chapter and then move from there to chapter 7. Are your eyes clear now?
.

Una dey see this Polytheist 3 persons worshipper?
According to your Bible, John 20:17 & Rev3:12, did Jesus worship 3 persons?
Matthew 4:10 , John 4:23-24, are you obeying Jesus Christ?
In screenshot,Bishop Kingsley (copying your Trinity mentors) says @ Revelation 5:13-14, worship is NOT for Jesus
Read that screenshot , your Trinitarian mentors says you're LYING .

sagenaija:
6. You were quick to pick on the wrongly mentioned verse of John 1. Had you looked at it from the beginning of the paragraph you should have seen that it was John 1:3 that was in view.
.

sagenaija:
JW's adjusted Col. 1:16 to read that he created "other" things but that claim falls apart based on John's statement here. Your guys forgot to add "other" to the 'all things' here in John 1:3 to adjust the translation to your doctrinal leaning.
Your translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".
.

sagenaija:
7. You failed to show how the archangel's voice in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 translates into Jesus being an Archangel.
.

John 5:28 & 1 Thessalonians 4:16, whose voice?
Jesus voice
Would Jesus and Paul lie ?
No !

sagenaija:
8. On JWS claim that 'the man Jesus is dead; for ever dead' maybe you should consult Prophet GOOGLE (Peace be upon him) to help you out. Then you'll see that Sagenaija is not LYING against JWs and making FALSE claim.
.

sagenaija:
8b. The seven churches in Revelation were 7 separate congregations with 7 different heads. .

sagenaija:
9. Where did Hebrews 13:7,17, say that "obedience to the 'faithful slaves' will determine your salvation"? Is the source of salvation obedience to your leaders or faith in the finished work of Christ?
Please reset your brain.

Who spoke the words @ Matthew 24:45-47?

Who gave you that instructions at Hebrews 13:7,17?
Acts 9:4-6,Who converted him?

Are you willing to receive SENSE?

MightySparrow:
The crime is inability of JWs on Nairaland to criticize others while your GB members now and in the past have made serious mistakes and even committed heaven- insulting sins. These are green in the pages of history.
Your conviction is your own take. Your own take.
In the time of Jesus, there wer already established sects: Pharisees, Sadducees, Hellenes, Scribes,..... So now, nothing is new.

sagenaija:
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You are missing my point. Maybe deliberately so.

The focus should be on God and not on any single group. Jesus said "I will build my church". So, it is his church. And, the church is first and foremost a spiritual entity.

The ultimate issue is 'What think ye of Christ?'. Who is he to the individual or to a group? A mere out-of-this-world super angel OR the creator, saviour and sustainer of all?

That belief on Christ is the foundational basis for everything else that follows. Once it is missing or misconstrued everything else, every purported practical works, will crumble before him when he comes to judge ALL.

sagenaija:
I agree with you that you'll most likely stick to your ground on these issues. But others are reading us.

Just as addiction to a thing can be difficult to break, attachment to cults are equally tough ones to break loose from.

sagenaija:
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Janosky, Can you see that you are unable to answer questions in a straightforward way?

That is because you are running away from reality.

sagenaija:
Did Col. 1 say: "He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
Colossians 1:17 NIV
What is your understanding of the second portion of that verse - ".....and in him all things hold together."?

sagenaija:
Did Hebrews 1 say "So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Hebrews 1:4 NIV
What does "much superior to the angels" mean?

sagenaija:
Hebrews says God NEVER said to ANY angel "My Son". Janosky does not believe that.

sagenaija:
"One of" means one out of or amongst others. "The one" used by you about Lamech's wives mean one of the two wives because it was earlier stated that Lamech took two wives. This agrees with my position that Daniel 10:13b is talking about Michael being one amongst angels of equal ranking. You end up proving my point.
Don't you see it? There are other angels in the same rank as Michael so, NOTHING makes him UNIQUE!
.

Sagenaija dey console yourself
In 3 instances in the Hebrew testament, the expression [b]"The One/One of"

sagenaija:
Did they worship the Lamb in Revelation 5? The answer is 'Yes!' But janosky would prefer to ignore where the Bible said they worshipped. He would rather use the lenses of his DOGMA to answer a simple question.
.

sagenaija:
Your translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".
But janosky has conveniently refused to comment on that verse. Instead he runs to another verse that was not mentioned. He wants to be 'smart' i.e. cunning.
If you are man enough why not tell us what John 1:3 says without running to any other place to cover up your 'fraud'.

@ John 1:3 , Colossians 1:16, & 1 Corint 8:6, is the Greek word "DIA antou" THROUGH him" ( agent/medium/"by means of" written there in the Greek manuscript?
Colossians 1:15 Jesus is a creature.
1 Corinthians 8:6 & Romans 11:35-36, God his Father is the Creator is 'Fraud' to this Polytheist 3 persons deities worshipper .
3 Idol doghead Polytheist continue WAILING.

sagenaija:
When Jesus, in John 17:11 and other parts of the chapter was asking the Father to do things, that must make the Father his agent too ie. as a subordinate, if we are to use your 'logic'.

sagenaija:
When angels spoke in the book of Revelation was it God directly speaking?

sagenaija:
I want to believe that you agreed with my other points. Maybe you didn't want to humbly accept so or admit it. Or maybe you simply ran for cover.

Janosky:















3 Idol doghead Polytheist continue WAILING.

MaxInDHouse:
So it's not a crime to explain why i believe the group is right, shey?
Leave whatever happened in the past i don't live in the past but present, what is happening now is my concern!

MightySparrow:

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus lived as a man in the midst of critics who were battle prepared to quote the scriptures against him. So if we were there back then in the first century [font=Lucida Sans Unicode]the only evidence to prove that the true God is with Jesus despite all the criticism is the miraculous works Jesus was performing [/font]not his arguments because he will quote the scriptures while his enemies will also quote the scriptures, that's why Nicodemus a member of the group antagonizing Jesus said:

“Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can perform these signs that you perform unless God is with him.” John 3:2

Many people also saw the same thing but never believe Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) WHY? Because while Jesus was preaching and teaching there are many religious leaders saying he is not from God! Matthew 12:24; John 9:24

Jesus have nothing again as credentials that he is the promised Messiah so there was lots and lots of contention back then. Peter asked him:

“Look! We have left all things and followed you; what, then, will there be for us?” Matthew 19:27

Peter and the others has been expelled from the synagogues for putting faith in Jesus so their families and friends now see them as outcasts in the society. What was Jesus' reply?

“Truly I say to you, no one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get 100 times more now in this period of time—HOUSES, BROTHERS, SISTERS, MOTHERS, CHILDREN, and FIELDS, with PERSECUTION—and in the coming system of things, everlasting life. Mark 10:29-30

So the evidence that Peter and his friends are on the road to everlasting life is organization of people who treats one another like BROTHERS, SISTERS, MOTHERS, CHILDREN that will always be there.
Today Jehovah's Witnesses said Jesus returned in 1914~STORY
They said he began dealing with only their group~STORY
They said he was correcting all their blunders that's why they keep making amendments in their former beliefs~STORY
They said he has chosen their leaders GB as his representatives~STORY
But what has kept millions together in this group?
Well remember Jesus' promise to Peter {Mark 10:29-30} so if anyone now picks up the Bible and start quoting scriptures saying this group is wrong the only evidence right thinking persons will accept is a presentation of a better performing group that's treating one another just as Jesus promised Peter.
Jesus was with Peter that very day so Peter needs no other evidence but after Jesus became a life giving SPIRIT the only evidence to prove that he is present is the promised ORGANIZATION of peace loving worshipers, anything else is tantamount to fruitless arguments! 1Timothy 6:4; Titus 3:9

May you have PEACE!

MightySparrow:
Jesus said his true believers would do greater miracles than he did, your organisation is merely qouting scriptures like His enemies did

I guess the. true God is not with your GB;

sagenaija:
1. Janosky fails to understand that the humanity of Christ and his pre-exitent nature need to be put into consideration in interpretation. (Reread this. A word is enough for the 'wise').

Then Jesus said to them, “Why is it said that the Messiah is the son of David? David himself declares in the Book of Psalms: “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’ David calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”
Luke 20:41‭-‬44 NIV

2. You like running from pillar to post because you want to convince yourself against the truth that your preconceived position is the right one. So, for example, if you are shown that Jesus was called God with the statement "My Lord and my God" you will look for how to make the 'God' in that statement mean something else. You would have said it was 'Lord' but because 'Lord' is already there you will look for another word just to make it conform to your position. Your references to Lexicon, Hebrew, etc are all to obscure things. We can see through you.

In Genesis 26:26 we have:
Then Abimelech went to him from Gerar, and Ahuzzath one of his friends, and Phichol the chief captain of his army.
The 'one of' in that verse must mean that Ahuzzath was his 'senior' friend or 'first' friend by your logic. Interesting!

Or this:
Genesis 25:23
And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
So, 'the one people' here should be interpreted to mean 'the first' or 'the Senior', according to your logic.
You should begin to see through your facade.

3. So, when in Revelation 5 the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell before the Lamb it was not worship?
And all that is said and done elsewhere in that chapter to the Lamb is not worship?
Only a show of respect?

Are you saying that you can go through the book of Revelation and still go away with the thinking that the Lamb is not worshipped?

4. Again, your translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".
But you are not explaining that verse!
Instead you keep running elsewhere to attempt to convince yourself that the position you hold is it!
Your translation says NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence apart from Jesus!
Are you denying your translation?
You need to deal with that!

Janosky:
4 Questions for you:
Luke 24:4 are the two men humans?- That verse didn’t say.

John 17:5 & Phil 2:7 did Jesus have that glory as a man?- those verses show he was divine but took human form.

John 17:24, will Jesus be given back the glory as a man?-You tell me please. We are not disputing the glory and divinity of Jesus Christ. If you go that route, then we can imply Jesus was just divine all through his years on earth.


Luke 24:25 & Phil 2:9-10,will Jesus enter the glory as a man?

Please see below how Jesus showed his hierarchy while on earth: man-angels-son-father.
So his supremacy and divinity is not called into question.

These verses did not counter the fact that Jesus resurrected in his bodily form and was witnessed same by his disciples and a 500 others in human form. See 1 Cor 15:2-5

“But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:32‬ ‭ASV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/12/mrk.13.32.asv

MaxInDHouse:
You goofed big time my friend!

Do you think all the people ever claiming Christians put together has performed one tenth of miracles Jesus did? John 21:25

Well the GB said they have performed more than Jesus, in what sense?
Jesus only preached within the boarders of Israel but the GB has reached all countries with their teaching.
Jesus couldn't remove weapons and racism from the hearts of his disciples but the GB has erased both from the hearts of millions throughout the world.
Jesus never gathered up to 1,000 disciples but the GB has gathered over 8million disciples all preaching and teaching globally.
Jesus only recorded three and a half years of preaching and teaching but the GB has recorded over 100 years of zealous preaching throughout the earth from 1919-2019
Jesus preached in one language but the GB and their group in over 2000 languages throughout the earth!

So stop deceiving yourself Jesus never meant anybody will perform miraculous greater than the one God himself made a mighty God in the midst of men! Isaiah 9:6

MightySparrow:
No excuse, perform your own.
B million over 134 years! The people you criticise has more than less than 40 years, almost globally.
Continue to bask in delusion.